U.S. Men 2024-25 news & updates

[PRlady]

Capital One could treat Pulkinen in the “making dreams come true” goodwill category and get a lot out of it, since banks are probably second to health insurance companies in the “feel bad” category, and Pulkinen is NY-based with plenty of media and doesn’t even need to clean up to clean up well.

Not that they have any obligation to do it.

Funny thing is that Cap One has been my bank and credit card company for many years and I actually like them. Good service, fraud alerts, excellent rates and points for good customers. No I am not being paid for this post.

 

[On My Own]

No I am not being paid for this post.

Or so you say...

 

[BittyBug]

Boot issues nearly completely derailed Karen Chen's entire career.

I'm not implying that equipment problems don't exist - they're extremely common in skating. Rather, I'm pointing out that they are not used as an excuse for a bye.

 

[Vagabond]

Is potentially earning a third entry at the Olympics the only thing that matters here?

I think that the Federation ought to be concerned with ensuring that skaters prepare and show up for Nationals unless they are ill or injured. I would hate to see this turn of events happening again next year, with Brown essentially getting a bye to the Olympics.

 

[sheetz]

True, we've seen skaters whose boots were lost by an airline borrow a pair from someone else just to compete. That makes me wonder if there's some undisclosed injury. Jason did make reference to a hip issue in an interview.

 

[jlai]

I think probably yes, but they let the skaters have the dignity of withdrawing from the event rather than yanking them offstage with a hook or whatever. Certainly other skaters who have petitioned to teams have later withdrawn. I would assume in some cases this was because the feedback from the monitoring was, “Yo, this isn’t happening.”

I’m 50/50 on whether I expect Jason to actually show up at worlds. While I don’t buy into most of the conspiracy theories about why he’s continued competing (I suspect he just… wants to?), this is one situation where I wouldn’t be shocked if there were some kind of shenanigans involved.

I also think there’s way too much judgment going on from people who don’t know these skaters or their lives. Camden could have a million reasons for how and why he’s juggled his training versus other commitments this season, Jason likewise, and we do not know the conversations that are happening or the exact impact these decisions have had in the overall context of other things (Camden’s historical inconsistency, Jason’s 30-year-old body, etc.). These guys have both worked hard enough for a long time that I’m willing to give them both enough respect to say they’re probably doing the best they can in the grand scheme of whatever is going on in their lives right now. Maybe there are other guys working harder or smarter for that #3 spot, but they didn’t turn it into results this season, so here we are.

Exactly, whether USFS thinks or we think they deserve the spot or not, they can make whatever choice that is best for them. I'm sure they know the consequences without us sounding repeating how they deserve / do not deserve the consequences.
It's USFS that makes the decision on whether they think Jason/Camden deserves the spot, and they will make the decision based on what is the best for the upcoming Olympics (spots on the line)

 

[MacMadame]

But, I think you missed my main point, which is that I would gladly have someone other than Camden or Jason compete at Worlds if they had worked hard, done well all season, seized the moment at Nationals and shown that USFS could rely on them at Worlds. That didn't happen.

How does USFS expect it to happen if they keep propping up legacy skaters at the expense of the ones who actually show up at Nationals and compete for spots at International events?

And anyone who claims they'd trust Pulkinen to get the job done at Worlds over Jason is straight up lying.

What does it matter? He'd be the 3rd guy. If he scores below Torgy and Ilia, his scores don't factor into the equation for next season's slots.

Did Camden skip the GP citing “equipment issues”? Since when is that a valid reason to skip your National Championships? That’s what I find outrageous. If your equipment is working well enough to skate in shows you should be able to show up and compete.

It's a slap in the face to every skater who showed up at Nats injured, ill, having equipment issues, etc. in order to do what they could to earn international assignments.

2A. Blame the judges for not burying Jason all the times they should have. And don't blame the USFSA for wanting to take advantage of that.

And how long is that going to last? ISU judges are notorious for being 1 season behind in their reputation judging. Given how Jason skated at Worlds last year and then on the GP, it's about time for them to start marking what they see on the ice and Jason gets major dumpage.

Also, his 3X has been missing all Fall and since then he's not been able to train the way he'd like (by his own words). How exactly is he going to get it back by Worlds when he is having "equipment issues"? Without a 3X or a quad anything, he's not going to score well at all IMO. Camden at least has a chance to do so.

 

[RoseRed]

What does it matter? He'd be the 3rd guy. If he scores below Torgy and Ilia, his scores don't factor into the equation for next season's slots.

It may for Olympic spots though. As others have pointed out, to secure 3 outright, all three skaters have to make the FS. It's not like any other Worlds in that respect.

I don't know if this was the right decision or not, and none of us know whether Jason will actually compete at Worlds. It may But if part of the reasoning of the selection committee was worry about Camden's short program, I don't think that would be unreasonable based on his SP scores on the GP.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

It's a slap in the face to every skater who showed up at Nats injured, ill, having equipment issues, etc. in order to do what they could to earn international assignments.

Do we really want skaters to feel forced to compete when they're sick or injured, no matter the risk of harm to themselves or others? There's a petition option for a reason.

 

[Vagabond]

Do we really want skaters to feel forced to compete when they're sick or injured, no matter the risk of harm to themselves or others? There's a petition option for a reason.

Brown has not said that either illness or injury prevented him from competing at Nationals. He did say that he wasn't prepared, which is not the same thing.

It isn't even clear that he petitioned.

 

[toddlj]

It is possible that both of these things are true:
1. Jason did not petition.
2. The committee selected Jason from the selection pool.

 

[MacMadame]

Do we really want skaters to feel forced to compete when they're sick or injured, no matter the risk of harm to themselves or others? There's a petition option for a reason.

And how is giving him this slot going to encourage other skaters not to compete when they are injured and sick?

 

[Theatregirl1122]

It is possible that both of these things are true:
1. Jason did not petition.
2. The committee selected Jason from the selection pool.

It is most likely that there is no such thing as a petition in this situation.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm not implying that equipment problems don't exist - they're extremely common in skating. Rather, I'm pointing out that they are not used as an excuse for a bye.

True, we've seen skaters whose boots were lost by an airline borrow a pair from someone else just to compete. That makes me wonder if there's some undisclosed injury. Jason did make reference to a hip issue in an interview.

Of course there is. Otherwise the USFS wouldn't have assigned him with the * - pending Return to Play protocol caveat. The Return to Play protocol in the Selection doc does not reference equipment issues - it is strictly medical/injury related.

So, for those of you wishing to spin what Jason said in his withdrawal announcement last Monday as the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth and that Jason wasn't lying... Well, I beg to disagree. If it was merely an equipment issue, the USFS wouldn't have conditioned his assignment to the Worlds team on Return to Play protocol.

And, as I think about this more, it really pisses me off. It pisses me off that Jason LIED to all the fans about his reason for the withdrawal. It pisses me off that no one - not his coaching team, not his management team, not his family, and not even the USFS - appears to have thought this completely through - that in giving the "equipment issues" excuse, when the USFS inevitably named him to the team, they'd either have to name him without condition or they'd expose the lie if they, correctly, conditioned it pending the Return to Play protocol. It pisses me off that, worse, perhaps they did think all that through and decided to go ahead with the "equipment issues" excuse, believing that no one would pick up on the lie (which, I'm ashamed to say, none of us really did until nearly 20 hours later) and even if they did, the blowback would be minimal. And, to be fair, it probably will be even if there are a lot of fans who aren't very happy with the decision to put him on the team.

But, really, all Jason's LIE does is confirm for me that he's a fake and root for him to fall flat on his a$$ at Worlds, even at the expense of a 3rd Olympic spot for our men. Or, actually, what it makes me root for is that Camden & Max go to 4CCs and prove they can deliver another good set of skates & the Return to Play Evaluation Committee and International Committee end this charade and yank Jason off the team in another three weeks.

 

[Rukia]

i think some of you all are reading a lot into a situation that we know very little about. Let's say Jason has boot issues that are causing him pain. He's no longer able to train for nats at a level that will give a good performance. This is an equipment issue with a direct effect on his ability to skate, thus the usfs would want to see that he's fixed it and trained to a level that would be competitive.

I mean this is all just fanfiction anyway, but at least mine is plausible lol

 

[Tesla]

And I’m still leaning towards USFS wanting Jason at Worlds more than Jason wanting to be at Worlds.

ETA To be honest, if this were a regular Worlds, Jason wouldn’t be on the team because judging by the GP, Ilia and Andrew should keep the three spots. USFS wants three spots for the Olympics, and judging by the GP, Jason seems to be the best bet to keep those three for the Olympics. International judges love him, too.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Or at least USFS wanting to appear as if Brown might be at Worlds.

 

[Tesla]

Or at least USFS wanting to appear as if Brown might be at Worlds.

Why? Ilia's going to get butts in the seats. People want to see the Quad God.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Ultimately, I think there was very little in this decision. It’s a huge difference for Camden and Jason potentially, but for USFSA, it’s pretty close to a wash.

So, they picked the person most likely to make the FS and confirm the 3rd Olympic spot or they picked the person who performed better at last years worlds of the two or they picked the person they thought would sell more tickets. But I don’t think it’s a huge difference no matter what and they could easily be wrong either way.

 

[jlai]

Yea let’s see how the next month plays out before the handwringing
It’s possible that Camden ends up going kinda like Sarah E may end up going
With no one at fault

 

[kwanfan1818]

Why? Ilia's going to get butts in the seats. People want to see the Quad God.

Maybe some of the demographic that will see it live. Which Brown already captured. Plus he's the poster child for Ronald McDonald's house, and has been on social media longer.

Besides, this is USFS thinking. They didn't have to encourage his comeback or select him for the Worlds team.

 

[olympic]

Maybe the USFSA should have decided on the 3rd spot between Jason v. Camden after 4CC? It could show whether Camden was on an upward trajectory. Does Jason have to prove his fitness for Worlds??

 

[kwanfan1818]

Yes, he does, under the * next to his selection.

 

[Barbara Manatee]

And how is giving him this slot going to encourage other skaters not to compete when they are injured and sick?

It shows skaters there is another option besides "show up at Nats injured, ill, having equipment issues." I wish more of them would take it (looking at you, Chock and Bates).

I don't have much of an opinion on Jason's selection. But I do feel strongly that the expectations and acclaim around athletes 'playing through the pain' is wrong-headed and dangerous.

 

[jlai]

It shows skaters there is another option besides "show up at Nats injured, ill, having equipment issues." I wish more of them would take it (looking at you, Chock and Bates).

I don't have much of an opinion on Jason's selection. But I do feel strongly that the expectations and acclaim around athletes 'playing through the pain' is wrong-headed and dangerous.

True, that

 

[peibeck]

At the impression some people have that I who have for years gushed over and praised Jason now believe I think he's Satan incarnate or something. Truly, truly, not the case. Do I think he's given a World's worthy performance this season? No. If he's in Boston will I cheer for him? Absolutely.

 

[Stephanie]

Maybe the USFSA should have decided on the 3rd spot between Jason v. Camden after 4CC? It could show whether Camden was on an upward trajectory. Does Jason have to prove his fitness for Worlds??

They couldn't as the selection procedures stated that the team would be named right after nationals.

 

[Tesla]

I think it’s as simple as USFSA wants three spots for the Olympics and Jason is the best man to do that.

 

[MacMadame]

It shows skaters there is another option besides "show up at Nats injured, ill, having equipment issues." I wish more of them would take it (looking at you, Chock and Bates).

I think that's naive, unfortunately. Everyone knows that no lower-level team is going to get to Worlds if they don't show up at Nationals. USFS plays favorites and politics and Jason is benefiting from both.

 

[MacMadame]

I think it’s as simple as USFSA wants three spots for the Olympics and THEY THINK Jason is the best man to do that.

I realize they think this but I don't think it's realistic. Yes, Jason outscored Camden this Fall. But then Camden buckled down and devoted himself to preparing for Nationals and Jason did not.