U.S. Men 2024-25 news & updates

[MacMadame]

I can see why someone might reach his age and decide that they want to make other things a priority, but there are consequences.

Jason is older and has made skating in shows a priority rather than train full-time. So where are his consequences?

 

[kwanfan1818]

Seriously, @peibeck ? Despite Brown not showing up prepared for GP, their relative scores showed he was more prepared than Pulkinen:

Brown:
SC: 79.03+139.72, 218.75
NHK: 77.08+152.01, 229.09

Pulkinen:
France: 64.48+129.12, 193.60
Finland: 64.34+130.89, 195.18

Pulkinen didn't break 70 once in the SP at GP; the cut-off for the 2024 Men's FS was 73.23. His higher total score was 23+ points below Brown's lower total score. He didn't break 131, let alone 150 in FS.

I don't think USFS should be subsidizing anyone to skate beyond what there is clear criteria for, like envelope money, or jobs, like teaching or mentoring in seminars. (Maybe the scholar/athlete awards are also transparent.)

 

[Allskate]

Jason is older and has made skating in shows a priority rather than train full-time. So where are his consequences?

He may very well not get to compete at Worlds. It's not a given. Also, part of the reason that Jason gets such good scores is because he spent many more years than Camden did developing his skating. Jason has a great reputation, and it will be sad for him if he ends his career with an embarassing skate at Worlds. Those would be consequences. (I'm not convinced that he is totally healthy, so I'm not sure that training a lot harder would be a good thing for him, but that's definitely not a reason to give him a spot on the World team.)

But, I think you missed my main point, which is that I would gladly have someone other than Camden or Jason compete at Worlds if they had worked hard, done well all season, seized the moment at Nationals and shown that USFS could rely on them at Worlds. That didn't happen. Jason had a better fall than Camden did even skating below his usual standard, and in a couple of months he may be a better risk than the guy who is going to be back in the office this week. I hope USFS is in a better position to know that than we are.

 

[On My Own]

I can't believe USFS is seriously considering sending Jason to Worlds.

Oh barf, no. He's been skating all season like he should have been put out to pasture ages ago. Just send Camden and let's move forward, please.

I don't like Jason's skating, but I have to say that I find this cheerleading for younger athletes in the sport at the expense of veterans to be quite ridiculous. Maybe he shouldn't go this season because he hasn't done well in the GP series, but it's ultimately good for any sport to see veterans performing on the biggest stage out there. It was good to see Amber winning GPF, as an example.

(no, I didn't watch US Nationals or any skating at all since two videos of women's LP in Japanese Nationals, before anyone asks, nor do I intend to for the remainder of the season, but I have sincere doubts that Torgashev and Pulkinen suddenly turned into amazing skaters.)

 

[misskarne]

At the end of the day, Jason left the door wide open for any other skater to take his spot, to leave him out of contention. Not even just wide open, he practically decorated the doorway with neon lights flashing THROUGH HERE!

They didn't capitalise. He was having issues on the Grand Prix and Pulkinen couldn't even outscore him then. And anyone who claims they'd trust Pulkinen to get the job done at Worlds over Jason is straight up lying.

I'll admit to being surprised that he was named, but again, the fault lies with others who did not outperform him in the fall. USFS has been trying to get through to skaters for years that it's no longer acceptable to just pull one good skate out of your arse at Nationals and expect to go.

Should have expected, but not a fan of, the snide insinuations that Jason has been lazy, or is lying about his motivations or actions, or that he's simply greedy. Problems with his boots or blades could absolutely create some of the issues we saw on the GP. And skating in a show is much less intense than a competition. It could well be that he was even using the shows to try and work through issues with his skates before coming to the realisation that the problems weren't solved in time. I fully believe he had every intention to come to Nationals, which is why he withdrew so late.

 

[On My Own]

Should have expected, but not a fan of, the snide insinuations that Jason has been lazy, or is lying about his motivations or actions, or that he's simply greedy.

I've come to realize this is pretty much the bread and butter of figure skating fans of any nationality after Cup of China this season.

 

[Private Citizen]

Way to motivate your athletes, USFS. Work hard, show up prepared, skate well, and then get passed over for someone who couldn't even be bothered to compete because they were by their own admission "not prepared." It's terrible sportsmanship on their part.

I agree. If Pulkinen's performances on the GP were disqualifying, then have that talk with him. Tell him that he's unlikely to be considered for the world team under any circumstances, v. have him go through an intense burst of training just to be told no at that point.

You mean exactly what Camden did on the GP?

There's an explanation: the guy has a full-time job. The USFS gives lip service to supporting skating and school (or work), but then doesn't make any accommodations for it. The training cycle for a skater in full-time serious school or work is going to look different. Maybe he should have declined the GP in hindsight.

If Capital One were smart, they would give him a paid sabbatical to train for the Olympics or let him go half-time. They are getting so much free promotion when he competes.

I suspect they'll do this, or at least an unpaid one. Two years is too much to hold a job, but six months to a year should hopefully be do-able.

 

[BittyBug]

You mean exactly what Camden did on the GP?

Did Camden skip the GP citing “equipment issues”? Since when is that a valid reason to skip your National Championships? That’s what I find outrageous. If your equipment is working well enough to skate in shows you should be able to show up and compete.

 

[Sarah]

I adore Camden. I am a huge Jason fan. I’m less bothered by the current world’s team than most.

Jason had a terrible fall for Jason. But his terrible was still miles better than everyone else in the US aiming for that 3rd spot except for possibly Jacob Sanchez.

Time and time again Camden has fallen apart (it’s hard being a Camden fan). It feels like he has one good skate a year. Can he really balance work and skating through worlds? And if he can, will he manage to hold it together? He hasn’t proven either of these things. I take a good Camden performance as a gift but I don’t expect it. Also he always loses points on spins. For years.

Having said all of that, I don’t know if Jason will actually skate at worlds. I see him withdrawing if he’s not ready.

 

[Carolla5501]

Booooooo . And Ashley Wagner needs to do a better job commentating after spreading the misinformation that Brown wasn't petitioning and getting all of our hopes up.

If that was the only problem you have with her commentating, you were lucky

I think it's BS but Jason's scores are insanely unjustifiably inflated, even internationally so...

I do also wonder if it's USFS way of telling Camden to quit his job and focus on skating if he wants to be seriously considered for the Oly team.

Well, if they want Camden to quit his job, they need to write him a big check so they can support him.

 

[DreamSkates]

I thought it sounded like her with a bad cold and a tad of laryngitis.
I did not enjoy the commentary.

 

[DreamSkates]

I don't like Jason's skating, but I have to say that I find this cheerleading for younger athletes in the sport at the expense of veterans to be quite ridiculous. Maybe he shouldn't go this season because he hasn't done well in the GP series, but it's ultimately good for any sport to see veterans performing on the biggest stage out there. It was good to see Amber winning GPF, as an example.

(no, I didn't watch US Nationals or any skating at all since two videos of women's LP in Japanese Nationals, before anyone asks, nor do I intend to for the remainder of the season, but I have sincere doubts that Torgashev and Pulkinen suddenly turned into amazing skaters.)

No it wasn't a sudden turn into amazing skaters. It's called training and it all came together at Nationals for Torgashev especially. I'm glad he is definitely going to Worlds. With quads. Honestly it's embarrassing to send a male skater at the senior level to Worlds with no quad. I do value Brown's skills and artistry but by now he could have a quad. Look at Glenn, at her age she now has a solid triple axle.

 

[her grace]

They didn't capitalise. He was having issues on the Grand Prix and Pulkinen couldn't even outscore him then. And anyone who claims they'd trust Pulkinen to get the job done at Worlds over Jason is straight up lying.

Interesting.

Should have expected, but not a fan of, the snide insinuations that Jason has been lazy, or is lying about his motivations or actions, or that he's simply greedy.

so accusations of lying are only okay when you do it?

 

[Flip Jump]

The Jason-Camden situation is what it is and has been discussed to the point that I have nothing else to add.
Sometimes I just wish everything was set up differently.
I wish that Jacob was listed as an alternate, probably instead of Jimmy.
And then I feel the alternates should not be ranked, similar to gymnastics.
I know this can be controversial and create head games for skaters but in this case where there are no real good answers it would provide some flexibility. If all the 4CC competitors (excluding Andrew) bomb the SP and then Jason does WD, having the opportunity to put Jacob in after a hopefully victorious Jr Worlds would be a nice option. Plus his one Sr international SP score is right on par than what Jason was scoring this season and much higher than Camden’s.
I know this is different than how the USFS currently operates, but what they are doing is just as maddening.

 

[Jonas]

Wow, this is a LOT for a Monday morning, LOL!!

First, I feel absolutely deflated for Jimmy Ma! I can't help but wonder what kind of discussion we would all be having had Jimmy Ma nailed his FS finished 3rd. I'm sure there'd be the same apprehensions about sending Jimmy to Boston due to his relatively lower scoring potential and his own history of inconsistencies. For me personally though, I would be A LOT more peeved this morning if it was Jimmy that was being bumped off by Jason.

RE: our 3rd men's Olympic spot -- as far as I'm concerned, that'll boil down to whether Torgy can finish 12th in Boston. If he maintains this level of skating, it's very doable in my book. Doesn't really matter to me who our 3rd guy is, though admittedly, I have far more faith in Jason Brown producing a top 12 (in fact, I think he will finish in the top 12) than Camden.

That said -- my vote, for the little that it's worth, would've been for Camden going to Worlds. He showed up and skated well -- not top 12 in the World well, but well for him and given his situation. That says more to me than what Jason produced this season and I'll spare you all my cynical thoughts leave it at that.

Your thoughts...

 

[susieB129]

Random musings, brain spew, opinions and thoughts, in no particular order...

1. Jimmy would have had to finish 2nd in order to even be considered for Worlds, and even then I don't think he would have been sent. (see: Miner, Ross)

1A. I was absolutely gutted that he couldn't capitalize on the best chance he's had -- or likely will have -- for a Nationals medal.

2. The reason everyone was so positive Jason wasn't petitioning for a spot on the Worlds squad was because HE DIDN'T HAVE TO. Whether it's something in the rules, or a financial arrangement, or simply a wink and a handshake, the spot is his unless he totally tanks his test skate.

2A. Blame the judges for not burying Jason all the times they should have. And don't blame the USFSA for wanting to take advantage of that.

3. If the aforementioned tankage occurs, it doesn't matter whether Camden or Max gets his spot, although Camden at his best is better than Max at his.

4. Not that he gives a crap about our opinions, but it would look better for Jason to skip the Japan shows and hunker down for some serious training. (Although at this point there are probably contractual obligations, tickets already sold, etc. etc.)

5. Camden's employer has no obligation to grant him leave or fund his training. It's not like deferring a year of college. Someone either in this thread or another commented about the publicity Capital One could get, but considering they've already got Derek Jeter and Jennifer Garner in their ads, I think they're doing OK in that arena. (In fantasy land, however, Camden makes the Olympic team, pulls a Wylie and gets his own "What's in YOUR wallet?" commercial.)

6. With jumps, Samuel Mindra could be a legend.

7. I'm not quite ready to take my seat on the Jacob Sanchez bandwagon. The talent is evident, but I didn't feel the emotion Tara was gushing about.

8. I actually like Johnny as a commentator. It's Tara who makes me want to shove an icepick in my ear.

As always, YMMV. Thanks for "listening."

 

[just tuned in]

I am not on the Sanchez bandwagon, either. His posture.

Joe Klein, please get your jumps!

 

[kwanfan1818]

Not many people like opera, and the names Renee Fleming and Isabel Leonard, for example, mean nothing to them, yet they are Rolex brand ambassadors.Not all advertising or publicity is that broad.

Capital One could treat Pulkinen in the “making dreams come true” goodwill category and get a lot out of it, since banks are probably second to health insurance companies in the “feel bad” category, and Pulkinen is NY-based with plenty of media and doesn’t even need to clean up to clean up well.

Not that they have any obligation to do it.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Just send Camden and let's move forward,

This makes me laugh so much, Camden is skating like it’s 1994 as well. And as someone else mentioned, he’s only skating as a hobby right now. And last time we sent him to worlds exactly 10 months ago he finished 20th. His skating is not Forward thinking including all of his warhorses 100% of the time. At least Jason brings music that’s not an warrrrrrrrhorse and is interesting.

>>> It’s because of Jason we have three entries into Boston worlds. And Jason was also a seeded skater because of what he did at worlds last year. If we relied on Camden’s score we would only be sending two skaters to worlds. Hello,… Lol.

If we relied on Camden, we would not be having this discussion in any thread on this for forum right now. Because with no Jason and relying on Camden we would only be sending Ilia and Torgy right now and this would not even be a discussion.

 

[Karen-W]

This makes me laugh so much, Camden is skating like it’s 1994 as well. And as someone else mentioned, he’s only skating as a hobby right now. And last time we sent him to worlds exactly 10 months ago he finished 20th. His skating is not Forward thinking including all of his warhorses 100% of the time. At least Jason brings music that’s not an warrrrrrrrhorse and is interesting.

>>> It’s because of Jason we have three entries into Boston worlds. And Jason was also a Seaded skater because of what he did at worlds last year. If we relied on Camden’s score we would only be sending two skaters to worlds. Hello,… Lol.

If we relied on Camden's score from last year, yes, we would only be sending two skaters to Worlds - Ilia & Torgy. Jason wouldn't have that 2nd spot based on how he's skated so far this year. And, I suspect that most of us would be fine with this.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

If we relied on Camden's score from last year, yes, we would only be sending two skaters to Worlds - Ilia & Torgy. Jason wouldn't have that 2nd spot based on how he's skated so far this year. And, I suspect that most of us would be fine with this.

Yeah, as I was trying to order my coffee right now, I included that in my post a moment later.

I’m not the curator of Jason’s fan page thread nor do I visit it that often but I don’t understand why people are all up in arms over skater who doesn’t produce. I mean we sent Camden to worlds last year he did not contribute in any way for us having three skaters this year. It was Jason that did that. I don’t understand anyone’s argument here lol.

 

[canbelto]

Tbh I don't think it matters. I'm not confident in either of them getting that third spot for the Olympics.

 

[Rukia]

I love that people who have clearly paid no attention to what Andrew has done this season are like "oh I don't trust him" as if he hasn't been building all season long lol like he literally added more difficulty at US Nats and still skated clean. I mean obviously he can't stay perfect forever but this isn't a case of "oh he had one good competition" he's been improving every single comp.

 

[Karen-W]

I love that people who have clearly paid no attention to what Andrew has done this season are like "oh I don't trust him" as if he hasn't been building all season long lol like he literally added more difficulty at US Nats and still skated clean. I mean obviously he can't stay perfect forever but this isn't a case of "oh he had one good competition" he's been improving every single comp.

Very much so. I have a lot more confidence in him after Nats than I did even during the GP where you could still wonder if this was just a flash in the pan. I credit Brandon as the secret sauce that has pushed Andrew to this new level.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Did Camden skip the GP citing “equipment issues”? Since when is that a valid reason to skip your National Championships? That’s what I find outrageous. If your equipment is working well enough to skate in shows you should be able to show up and compete.

Boot issues nearly completely derailed Karen Chen's entire career.

 

[Aceon6]

Wow, I’m late here, but I see this as more of a math problem. Which third guy is 100% guaranteed to make the free skate? Anyone other than Jason can make it with a clean quad and a clean triple axel and a semi-clean 3/3. Jason can make it with no quad and maybe one call IF his axel works. So if I’m USFS, I’m checking his axel. If the axel is working, send him. If it’s even the slightest bit suspect, don’t.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Random musings, brain spew, opinions and thoughts, in no particular order...

2. The reason everyone was so positive Jason wasn't petitioning for a spot on the Worlds squad was because HE DIDN'T HAVE TO. Whether it's something in the rules, or a financial arrangement, or simply a wink and a handshake, the spot is his unless he totally tanks his test skate.

I really don't think that's it. Jason didn't have to "petition" but, in this case, "petition" is being used as a short hand for seeking a spot on the team even though he doesn't have to petition. Ashley didn't say "he's not going to petition" like wink-wink, nudge-nudge, he doesn't need to. She very clearly said there were 3 spots going to be assigned at nationals because Jason is not attempting to be considered.

Now, I do consider it possible that Jason was NOT attempting to be considered and USFSA chose to assign him for reasons like selling tickets or because they figure he only has to put up a 74 point SP and they think he'll go if they ask him to.

Or it's possible that he always meant to seek a spot on the world team and Ashley was incorrect and made the bad choice to say it on air multiple times without making sure she was right. We may or may not ever know.

 

[Rhumba d’Amour]

Wow, I’m late here, but I see this as more of a math problem. Which third guy is 100% guaranteed to make the free skate? Anyone other than Jason can make it with a clean quad and a clean triple axel and a semi-clean 3/3. Jason can make it with no quad and maybe one call IF his axel works. So if I’m USFS, I’m checking his axel. If the axel is working, send him. If it’s even the slightest bit suspect, don’t.

I can’t believe that USFS would ever backtrack on this and not send Jason, regardless of how he looks during the monitoring process. They have invested so much into making this work.

Has anyone ever “failed” a monitoring process?

 

[jlai]

I can’t believe that USFS would ever backtrack on this and not send Jason, regardless of how he looks during the monitoring process. They have invested so much into making this work.

Has anyone ever “failed” a monitoring process?

No but there were withdrawals in the past aren’t there?

 

[Trillian]

I can’t believe that USFS would ever backtrack on this and not send Jason, regardless of how he looks during the monitoring process. They have invested so much into making this work.

Has anyone ever “failed” a monitoring process?

I think probably yes, but they let the skaters have the dignity of withdrawing from the event rather than yanking them offstage with a hook or whatever. Certainly other skaters who have petitioned to teams have later withdrawn. I would assume in some cases this was because the feedback from the monitoring was, “Yo, this isn’t happening.”

I’m 50/50 on whether I expect Jason to actually show up at worlds. While I don’t buy into most of the conspiracy theories about why he’s continued competing (I suspect he just… wants to?), this is one situation where I wouldn’t be shocked if there were some kind of shenanigans involved.

I also think there’s way too much judgment going on from people who don’t know these skaters or their lives. Camden could have a million reasons for how and why he’s juggled his training versus other commitments this season, Jason likewise, and we do not know the conversations that are happening or the exact impact these decisions have had in the overall context of other things (Camden’s historical inconsistency, Jason’s 30-year-old body, etc.). These guys have both worked hard enough for a long time that I’m willing to give them both enough respect to say they’re probably doing the best they can in the grand scheme of whatever is going on in their lives right now. Maybe there are other guys working harder or smarter for that #3 spot, but they didn’t turn it into results this season, so here we are.