U.S. Men 2024-25 news & updates

[Allskate]

I'm seeing this all now, his hands pressed over his heart, as he shrugs his shoulders in faux humility, his smile alternating between wide as can be and lips pursed together in deep appreciation for the lovefest from the fans, all while he blinks back his tears of returned love and affection for his fans.

I was waiting for your Jason antipathy to rear up. LOL. I think that, when Jason has his final competitive skate, it genuninely will be very emotional for him. How many other men have had such a long skating career? It's been his life for so long.

 

[Karen-W]

Phil Hersh's article about Ilia's performance here at Nats -

Ilia Malinin draws closer to his definition of perfection with third U.S. figure skating title

Ilia Malinin landed six quadruple jumps to win a third consecutive U.S. figure skating title.

www.nbcsports.com

Some quotes -

Ilia Malinin doesn’t back down.

When all of his jumping passes at last month’s Grand Prix Final were judged to contain under-rotation, he still had a sweatshirt made that reproduced the scoresheet, a memento of his having tried a free skate program with unprecedented difficulty.

And it was a program he had never previously tried in practice.

WAIT. WHAT?! This cannot be... Ilia had never tried the GPF/Nats layout before in practice completely? I guess that explains why it looked better this week, lol.

It makes no sense, though, for him to downsize the gigantic impact of his jumps, especially in a sport that rewards them so highly, for better or for worse.

His agent, Ari Zakarian, had three sweatshirts made to commemorate Malinin’s first attempt at the ground-breaking program. Zakarian said they sold one of the shirts for $1,000, with $800 going to the U.S. Figure Skating Fund, which supports national team skaters.

Imagine how much a revised version of the shirt might go for if it includes a scoresheet that records not only history but perfection.

That's pretty cool that they donated almost all of the proceedings from the auctioned sweatshirt to the USFS Fund. Nice way to give back to the rest of the team.

 

[Karen-W]

I was waiting for your Jason antipathy to rear up. LOL. I think that, when Jason has his final competitive skate, it genuninely will be very emotional for him. How many other men have had such a long skating career? It's been his life for so long.

LOL - hey, I didn't speculate on how I would receive said display/scene. I don't know how I'll feel about it. I mean, if he goes out there and lays a goose egg that doesn't even make the FS, I'll probably be pretty annoyed. But if he announces beforehand that this is his swansong and he goes out there and skates reasonably well & does his job of making the FS, then I may be verklempt like most of the rest of the figure skating fandom, lol.

 

[Rhumba d’Amour]

Hahahah - nahhhhhh... He's going to spin this one as if he knew, all along, that the USFS was going to get their money's worth out of Jason, and let him have, as @PRlady theorizes, one last, great, glorious, home crowd skate in the SP.

I'm seeing this all now, his hands pressed over his heart, as he shrugs his shoulders in faux humility, his smile alternating between wide as can be and lips pursed together in deep appreciation for the lovefest from the fans, all while he blinks back his tears of returned love and affection for his fans.

I’m impressed with how well the system worked to Jason’s advantage here, and cynical as to how that all may have come about. I saw him at Skate Canada this season; he did not look to be in any shape to compete then, and I suspect that as Nationals approached, things had not improved.

You have to wonder if assurances were made of future opportunities should, say, no one else achieve a benchmark score, prior to the very late decision to withdraw. This would explain all the uncertainty and contradiction over whether Jason would petition for the Worlds team; maybe there was no need to, because an agreement was already in place.

Just speculation.

 

[PRlady]

Good luck with that. Who is going to protect Alysa? It wasn't pretty for her at the Olympics and it was so sad that she had such a negative attitude about skating when she retired. It's so nice to see her skating with so much happiness. I don't want that to change. I think the international judges will not be as kind to her at Worlds with the scoring and NBC is likely to set up unrealistic expectations.

I thought about her as well, hoping that having been through the hype and fire at a young age, she’s a lot better prepared now. She managed to perform well under pressure at Olys and Worlds and it was a healthy psychological reaction, I think, to say the hell with this and disappear for a while.

Amber has never been the hyped front runner in all these years. At least she’s old enough and self-aware enough to protect herself. I hope.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

The other thing for me is that it’s not like Camden is some young hope for the future who has never had any opportunities before. He has failed to come through on multiple occasions. And he came through on one.

But looking forward to the Olympics next year, unless Camden makes some big changes, he's not a good bet. Camden is on his way out.

I don’t think that would be a reason to choose Jason over him, but it is a reason for me to not feel very sad that he didn’t get to go. He’s been. If it were another skater, Jacob, Goku, or even Max, there’d be more of an argument that they deserved a shot to show what they can do on the world stage and get world level experience before the Olympics. I don’t see that argument with Camden.

Camden chose to be a hobby skater this year. I believe he has the right to do that, especially since it’s his money and his life. But then he needs to accept the consequences. Ifyou’re going to be a hobby skater, you’re going to get a hobby skater assignments.

 

[Allskate]

But looking forward to the Olympics next year, unless Camden makes some big changes, he's not a good bet. Camden is on his way out.

If Capital One were smart, they would give him a paid sabbatical to train for the Olympics or let him go half-time. They are getting so much free promotion when he competes.

 

[kwanfan1818]

An all-expense paid trip to Korea, when I'm sure Ma would have loved the assignment, is a pretty good deal for a hobbyist.

 

[Firedancer]

I do not believe Jason (or anyone else) is going to be sent to worlds to skate only the SP and withdraw

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I do not believe Jason (or anyone else) is going to be sent to worlds to skate only the SP and withdraw

Nor do I think Jason would agree to that

 

[Theatregirl1122]

An all-expense paid trip to Korea, when I'm sure Ma would have loved the assignment, is a pretty good deal for a hobbyist.

So are you saying he should’ve gotten less?

 

[Allskate]

I do not believe Jason (or anyone else) is going to be sent to worlds to skate only the SP and withdraw

Maybe not, but I do think that USFS is likely to take into consideration who is more likely to qualify for the long program and that the monitors will be more concerned with the short program than the long program.

 

[tony]

Pretty sure a WD before the free skate would mean the USA could only confirm two spots to the Olympics directly, in the event that the other two men earn the chance to qualify the 3rd spot (13 or less points).

Otherwise, a WD prior to the free skate would not result in a final placement. That skater does not finish 24th place. So even though I can't navigate through the shit that is the new ISU website with broken links to all the previous documents, I'm guessing 23 spots maximum would up for grabs from Worlds if Jason were to withdraw mid-competition, and 7 spots would be open in the China Olympic qualifier.

But on the other hand, qualification to the free skate means Jason could skate around in circle for 4 minutes and still earn a final placement, I guess, to get that 24th place overall.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Well, Dave’s podcast just started 20 minutes ago, it looks like it may just be the women

Now they r talking about the Peacock feed and Ashley’s voice and how it didn’t sound like her

 

[Karen-W]

Here's the thing, with the new Selection doc - Jason (and Isabeau) were already IN the Selection Pool. The USFS International Committee can select whomever they want from that pool to make the best team possible. So, this whole "will he/she petition or not" doesn't actually matter. It's being used as a shorthand, I believe, for the skaters to request they still remain in the Selection Pool for legitimate consideration & deliberation. The part of the Selection Process that applies to Isabeau/Jason is actually further down in the Removal of Athletes (3) Section.

Injury or illness as referenced below:
Per U.S. Figure Skating’s Competition Compliance Agreement, any athlete injured and/or ill to the extent that requires surgery and/or ongoing medical treatment and/or is otherwise unable to train consistently, effectively, and according to their seasonal plan, and which may therefore jeopardize the athlete’s ability to compete for Team USA, the athlete agrees to communicate the situation to U.S. Figure Skating Senior Director, Athlete High Performance, with a copy to U.S. Figure Skating Director, High Performance Medical and Performance Services and U.S. Figure Skating Manager, Team USA. Under such circumstances, the athlete authorizes U.S. Figure Skating to request a Return to Play Plan & Status Report. Upon receiving the Return to Play Plan & Status Report, U.S. Figure Skating may share the information with the International Committee Chair and the Chair of the Sports Science and Medicine Committee and/or the Vice Chair of Medical Services for the Sports Science and Medicine Committee. This information will be handled with the utmost discretion and will be used to enable U.S. Figure Skating to help facilitate access to services that may support the athlete’s effort to recover.

The problem with the selection document is they have a whole paragraph in Section 1 - "Create A Pool of Athletes to Consider" dedicated to "Petition Athletes" (D) and the second half of it should really be moved down to the Removal of Athletes section instead, as that is part of the Return to Play process.

(D) Petition Athletes. Athletes/teams who qualified to compete but did not compete or complete both segments of the competition at any of the events listed above due to injury or illness, verified by U.S. Figure Skating medical personnel, may still be considered for selection by petitioning to the International Committee for nomination to the World Team. A petition in writing for consideration must be submitted to the International Committee Chair prior to the International Committee meeting for the petitioner’s respective event.

To be considered for selection by petition, the athlete must be able to prove competitive readiness by performing complete competition programs (SP/RD, FS/FD) with all planned program elements by a specified date, as approved and reviewed by a monitoring panel to be determined by the International Committee. In addition, U.S. Figure Skating medical personnel must verify that the athlete(s) will be physically ready to compete at the World Championships. If the petition is accepted, the athlete/team will be added to the pool.

The included events for Section 1 (A) are listed in the appendix and include the following:

1) Current US Nationals
2) GPF/JGPF
3) All GPs & JGPs
4) All Challengers & "B" Internationals that meet the ISU criteria for World Standing points
5) Sectionals and Pairs/Dance Finals
6) NQS events

A Petition Athlete would be someone who did NOT compete in any of those events, PLUS did not have a Top 10 finish at last year's Worlds nor was a 2022 Olympian. An example of a potential Petition Athlete is Plazas/Fernandez. But both Jason & Isabeau are already in the Selection Pool by virtue of their Top 10 finish at last year's Worlds.

The Return to Play Status Report may or may not involve the display of competitive readiness as outlined in Section 1 (D) paragraph 2 - someone with more knowledge can probably shed some light on that. I'd be surprised if it doesn't given we know the USFS had Chan/Howe and Liu/Nagy show up in Las Vegas during Synchro Nats last year to skate both their programs as an "exhibition" - ie monitoring competition.

But as it is, there was nothing either Isabeau or Jason needed to do, technically, to be considered for selection, per the USFS' own selection procedure document.

 

[Jammers]

No knock on Jason but i hope next year at Nationals he gets beat convincingly by the other men not named Ilia it's time for some new blood going not a 31 year old skater barely hanging on for dear life.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

No knock on Jason but i hope next year at Nationals he gets beat convincingly by the other men not named Ilia it's time for some new blood going not a 31 year old skater barely hanging on for dear life.

But who is the new blood? Curious who is the new blood that’s going to produce these high scores?

I was so curious for Lucas, but that’s over for the moment.

 

[DreamSkates]

Just read on USFSA site that Jason, like Isabeau, was named for Worlds -pending return to the protocol needed. Whatever that means.

 

[Vagabond]

Now they r talking about the Peacock feed and Ashley’s voice and how it didn’t sound like her

 

[tony]

Now they r talking about the Peacock feed and Ashley’s voice and how it didn’t sound like her

Yeah, it was actually Carol Heiss Jenkins.

 

[kwanfan1818]

So are you saying he should’ve gotten less?

Aside from points in his FS, no. I'm saying that if 4C's is a "hobby skater assignment," then being a hobby skater is not so shabby.

 

[Karen-W]

Pretty sure a WD before the free skate would mean the USA could only confirm two spots to the Olympics directly, in the event that the other two men earn the chance to qualify the 3rd spot (13 or less points).

Otherwise, a WD prior to the free skate would not result in a final placement. That skater does not finish 24th place. So even though I can't navigate through the shit that is the new ISU website with broken links to all the previous documents, I'm guessing 23 spots maximum would up for grabs from Worlds if Jason were to withdraw mid-competition, and 7 spots would be open in the China Olympic qualifier.

But on the other hand, qualification to the free skate means Jason could skate around in circle for 4 minutes and still earn a final placement, I guess, to get that 24th place overall.

Here you go - https://current.isu.org/inside-isu/...les/34459-single-pair-and-ice-dance-2024/file

It is Rule 400, paragraph 3. The verbiage is clear - "qualified for the Free Skating/Free Dance in the ISU World Senior World Championships preceding the OWG."

I was wondering too, if a post-SP withdrawal would matter because that doesn't result in an overall placement, but both the Rule itself as well as the 2026 Milano-Cortina doc have the same verbiage. But, if you look at past ISU Championships where a skater/team withdrew between the SP/RD and the FS/FD, there's a clear separation in the detailed results that show the skater/team DID reach the final, they just did not compete in it and they're ranked higher than the skaters/teams who did not reach the final at all.

2024 Jr Worlds Pairs -

ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships 2024 - Junior Pairs

results.isu.org

2024 Euros Pairs -

ISU European Championships 2024 - Pairs

results.isu.org

2023 Jr Worlds Ice Dance -

ISU World Junior Figure Skating Championships 2023 - Junior Ice Dance

results.isu.org

 

[Allskate]

Edit: Nevermind. Karen-W made it even clearer in her last post.

 

[Trillian]

Interesting that Ashley so confidently gave wrong info tho.

This is interesting to me because I heard her say it at least twice, and she sounded totally sure. I assumed she’d heard it directly from Jason or someone close to him, because it’s not like she doesn’t have connections. Maybe she just didn’t check carefully enough, but I don’t know, it does make me wonder what conversations were happening.

Either way, for the same reasons others have pointed out, I don’t think this is a particularly outrageous decision. At this point, Camden’s been hanging around long enough that the make-believe “give someone else a chance” criteria that some people like to insert into the selection criteria could just as easily apply to him. I’m a big fan of all the guys who finished 3-5, but none of them did what Torgashev did this season to make a case for himself. If any of them had, I don’t think Jason would have been named to the team.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Aside from points in his FS, no. I'm saying that if 4C's is a "hobby skater assignment," then being a hobby skater is not so shabby.

I mean, that definitely wasn’t my point. My point was he shouldn’t be surprised not to be named to worlds when he didn’t take the season seriously at all. You have to make choices, he made his, and these are the foreseeable consequences.

 

[tony]

If the rule actually does indeed mean that qualifying to the free skate means an automatic Olympic position for the country, I think I'd do away with that rule. ISU always has the worst rule explanations, even with the mentioning of "24 athletes will qualify in mens and womens singles" or whatever it says on that page. If a country has two or three skaters competing at Worlds and they don't place well enough to keep those multiple spots (such as 14th and 18th place, or whatever), then 24 skaters will not qualify from Worlds. It happened to China in 2021 with Boayng Jin and Han Yan. I'm sure somewhere else in the document that may be clarified, but it should say 'up to [x amount of] skaters will qualify'.

I mean, that definitely wasn’t my point. My point was he shouldn’t be surprised not to be named to worlds when he didn’t take the season seriously at all. You have to make choices, he made his, and these are the foreseeable consequences.

I mean, I don't know that people can say he didn't take anything seriously because we learned he got a big boy job. Not all skaters are financially set either from their parents/families or from their Federations (which, we know the rumors floating around Jason and that situation). And more to the point, Jason showed up to the Grand Prix even less prepared than Camden from the looks of it, and he's named anyways. I'm pretty sure Jimmy Ma probably has some full-time job, as well. Camden has always been inconsistent as it is.

More to the point- Pulkinen beat Torgashev at Cranberry to start the international season. And Hiwatashi, for that matter.

 

[skateboy]

I can't believe USFS is seriously considering sending Jason to Worlds.

Oh barf, no. He's been skating all season like he should have been put out to pasture ages ago. Just send Camden and let's move forward, please.

 

[carriecmu0503]

It's also entirely possible that USFS knows Jason is going to withdraw but named him to the team just bc they think it will sell some more tickets to worlds. Hell, maybe he never even petitioned in the first place and they are just using his name to sell tickets.

What are you even talking about? The event has been virtually sold out for months! Last time Worlds were in Boston, pretty much every single event sold out!

 

[peibeck]

I mean, that definitely wasn’t my point. My point was he shouldn’t be surprised not to be named to worlds when he didn’t take the season seriously at all. You have to make choices, he made his, and these are the foreseeable consequences.

In one sense, I think Pulkinen shouldn't be surprised because looking back at the Olympic season where Ross Miner bombed the GP season then skated a blinder at Nationals but got replaced by Adam Rippon for the games was another example of what you're describing.

But... obviously neither Camden OR Jason seemed prepared for the GP season. However Camden then did the work to be ready and produced at Nationals. Jason, conversely, went and did shows then offered a vague "equipment issue" excuse to withdraw. Meanwhile he's also (reportedly) getting extra funding to stay in?

I feel like that is what bothers me most. When the USFS cries they are too broke to send skaters to comps, but will put their blessings on skaters who choose to pay-their-own-way to some competitions, but behind the scenes are giving a favored skater extra funding?

I have loved Jason since I first saw him in juniors. But based on this season it seems more of a wash whether he or Camden goes, as Ilia and Andrew are the ones looking like they will be the ones to secure the 3rd spot.

Yes, Jason helped get the third spot for this year and Camden bombed (truth be told, I didn't remember him skating there last year ). But Jason also was aided by the field crumbling in the free skate, which is also how Adam Siao Him Fa climbed from 19th to the bronze. And if Jason appeared to be skating well this season I wouldn't have qualms. But he's obviously not...

It's just to say it's all about "choices" the skater has made (like Camden "chose" to work to fund his training instead of Jason who "chose" to reportedly take a bonus handout from USFS and collect paychecks for doing shows right before his country's biggest yearly event?) really bothers me, as it seems that argument could very much go both ways in this situation.

No offense to your logic, I think in this case we just have to agree to disagree on "choices" and "consequences."

 

[Allskate]

But Jason also was aided by the field crumbling in the free skate

Camden had the same opportunity to capitalize. Instead, Camden was one of the skaters who crumbled.

It's just to say it's all about "choices" the skater has made (like Camden "chose" to work to fund his training instead of Jason who "chose" to reportedly take a bonus handout from USFS and collect paychecks for doing shows right before his country's biggest yearly event?) really bothers me, as it seems that argument could very much go both ways in this situation.

Do we know that Camden needed to take this full-time banking job in order to fund his training? He hasn't done that in previous years. I can't remember ever hearing of a skater of this level having to work full-time at such a demanding job. (Maybe he wants to earn a lot of money and that is more important to him?) Is he going to be training hard leading up to Worlds or is he still going to be working full-time for the bank? I can see why someone might reach his age and decide that they want to make other things a priority, but there are consequences.

In any event, I don't think that anybody is arguing that Jason did a great job and was fully committed to competitions this season. Nobody. And I don't think there are many who think that Jason should get to go regardless of what he looks like during monitoring. Most of us wish that there was a third American guy who was fully committed to training for competitions this season, had a good season, and clearly earned the third spot. There isn't one. So, I think it's reasonable for the USFS to consider more than one competition when selecting the third World team member and to think about spots for next year - in case there is a third guy who really has earned the third spot.