Unpopular Opinions

Two of my most favorite FDs from Sochi are Black Swan l/K and Picasso H/D. How I wish EI skated for another country and trained at the IAM school. Her Frida was so very good but safe was preferred. Her partner also didn't really like the role. I think afterwards she lost interest.
 
Bigbird said:
Two of my most favorite FDs from Sochi are Black Swan l/K and Picasso H/D. How I wish EI skated for another country and trained at the IAM school. Her Frida was so very good but safe was preferred. Her partner also didn't really like the role. I think afterwards she lost interest.
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It was so unbelievably creepy how she was barely legal and Morozov was pawing her. Gross.
 
I have to confess. I think I&K's Black Swan should have finished fifth in Sochi. It was well packaged but had no content.

With the exception of how well their Olympic SD and FD were skated, I though V&M looked undertrained and raggedy AF during the 2017/2018 season .

Mozart was my favorite FD by P&C. Despite having a very promising debut, I think Elegie turned into a very lazy Copy and Paste of Mozart. I hate that they dumped their Original lifts for that program.

I actually liked P&C's Moonlight Sonata. If we're going to talk about overrated programs to that music , I despise Gordeeva and Grinkov's version and found their Olympic performance sloppy and empty .

I found Kaori Sakamoto's feminist Slam Poetry LP unwatchable .

I have a soft spot for Trusova.

I genuinely enjoyed FS more 20-30 years ago.
 
escaflowne9282 said:
I genuinely enjoyed FS more 20-30 years ago.
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I think this is a common feeling for most long-time fans, especially those who were on FSU from the beginning and were around through the 90s hayday.

I have very little interest in women's skating these days, but I think the men are at an amazing level with so many contenders-- not to mention the depth alone in Japan. I think Kagiyama is the most well-rounded skater the sport has ever seen.

Skating for me was very nearly unwatchable at the beginning of IJS because some skaters didn't bother to learn the system and others were going above and beyond with ugly positions and sprinting through everything. Dance was especially miserable, and a lot of pairs were struggling through the new complexity in lifts. In singles, the judges didn't bother giving anyone above a 7.5 or 8 and they usually clumped skaters in within a few points of PCS, whether they were Patrick Chan or they were Brandon Mroz. The earliest IJS made it nearly impossible to get above +1 on a lot of elements, and who can forget the Biellmann positions all over the place.

I still think there need to be major changes to IJS before we see that 'sprint through everything' aspect that I mentioned above. First and foremost, the singles' skaters need to have the step sequence dumped from the free skate. It doesn't even match the music most of the time and it's the same criteria pulled over from the short program, while wasting a good 30-45 seconds to get through it. I would say I'm in favor of adding more choreographic elements instead of set-in-stone criteria, but after seeing the slide movements trickle into other disciplines after it was instituted in dance, the at the boards posing, and all the other 'on trend' stuff we see repeatedly, I think I'd rather incorporate a set list of moves in the field in which skaters can pick from all with similar base values- maybe a one-foot sequence, as an example. I don't really need to see the same spin combination in both programs, either, so I'd be in favor of dumping those stuffy requirements and instead rewarding speed within them, held basic positions, creative positions, and the like.
 
chantilly said:
I don’t miss pre COP ice dancing one bit.
Not to say there wasn’t great programs or skaters and ice dancers before COP.
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I don’t miss the judging, but I do miss how much more natural and “bouncy” and quick footed ice dance used to be. It really did look like dance… well, until the dramatics came during the FD with shredded costumes and constipated faces as the dancers stabbed themselves with invisible daggers that was at its worst by the end of the 6.0 era (though that era had some of the best rivalries).

The ISU ice dance tech committee has been trying to bring dance back into ice dance for like three decades now and it seems their solution to that issue in the IJS era has been to add less requirements to the step sequences, lower the point differentials between levels for the ice dance elements, get rid of dedicated rhythms, experiment with getting rid of completed pattern/compulsory dances, and add what seems like what is now five or more non-leveled choreo sequences in the FD, where the tech panel has now been declawed and judges can run amok and bring back protocol judging and it might as well go back to 6.0… except it’s even more predictable and formulaic than it ever was under 6.0.

escaflowne9282 said:
I have to confess. I think I&K's Black Swan should have finished fifth in Sochi. It was well packaged but had no content.
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I’m with you there. That was kind of a nothing dance after the brilliant opening lift. Weaver/Poje really deserved the bronze although I would have been happy if Pechelat/Bourzat got it as well. W/P had like double the complexity and content I/K had and they skated their “Maria de Buenos Aires” FD brilliantly.
 
VGThuy said:
well, until the dramatics came during the FD with shredded costumes and constipated faces as the dancers stabbed themselves with invisible daggers that was at its worst by the end of the 6.0 era
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:rofl:

I think my opinion on ID at this point is that if vanishes as a discipline, I wouldn't care one bit.

ETA: Also men's skating is laughable. It has contenders, but the skating quality is pretty worthless from most of them. This has been the case for 6 years now.
 
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tony said:
Skating for me was very nearly unwatchable at the beginning of IJS because some skaters didn't bother to learn the system and others were going above and beyond with ugly positions and sprinting through everything. Dance was especially miserable, and a lot of pairs were struggling through the new complexity in lifts. In singles, the judges didn't bother giving anyone above a 7.5 or 8 and they usually clumped skaters in within a few points of PCS, whether they were Patrick Chan or they were Brandon Mroz. The earliest IJS made it nearly impossible to get above +1 on a lot of elements, and who can forget the Biellmann positions all over the place.
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I stopped watching FS mostly because of this and this lasted for a few years. Most programs became boring and not worthy of repeated viewings for me. I'd follow a bit who won big competitions and sometimes watch a few programs and that was it.

I notice I have become like some people were when I began watching skating in the 90s. With this I mean people who in articles, documentaries and on forums would say that skating was "too busy" now in the 90s, they had to do too much in a program and that they longed for the 70s or before, when skating was still really skating. They were saying that skating in the 90s was becoming too technical and athletes were losing real skating skills.

Well, appr. 20-25 years later now I most often rewatch 90s skating, and enjoy watching skating from the previous decades too. Every decade loses something valuable and unique, but also adds something new and interesting. Even 2000 - 2010 eventually. And I hear from the younger generation that to them the 90s programs are empty compared to programs today 😄
 
VGThuy said:
I don’t miss the judging, but I do miss how much more natural and “bouncy” and quick footed ice dance used to be. It really did look like dance… well, until the dramatics came during the FD with shredded costumes and constipated faces as the dancers stabbed themselves with invisible daggers that was at its worst by the end of the 6.0 era (though that era had some of the best rivalries).

The ISU ice dance tech committee has been trying to bring dance back into ice dance for like three decades now and it seems their solution to that issue in the IJS era has been to add less requirements to the step sequences, lower the point differentials between levels for the ice dance elements, get rid of dedicated rhythms, experiment with getting rid of completed pattern/compulsory dances, and add what seems like what is now five or more non-leveled choreo sequences in the FD, where the tech panel has now been declawed and judges can run amok and bring back protocol judging and it might as well go back to 6.0… except it’s even more predictable and formulaic than it ever was under 6.0.


I’m with you there. That was kind of a nothing dance after the brilliant opening lift. Weaver/Poje really deserved the bronze although I would have been happy if Pechelat/Bourzat got it as well. W/P had like double the complexity and content I/K had and they skated their “Maria de Buenos Aires” FD brilliantly.
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It cannot be worse than S/K rising as high as they did due to appearances and Russian backing. And in fact for the Black Swan the choreo was more complex, but it was dumbed down to suit Katsalapov. IMHO the best performance of it despite the small stumble was at TEB 2013. But Katsalapov, I think likes to go out extremely fast and forgo the choreo at times or just showboat. Even in exhibitions Sinitsina literally crawls and is visibly unsure of herself with less power. How the entire team isn't disqualified is a mystery. Valieva is just the scapegoat here. Pointless rant over.

EDIT: By the middle of W/P Tango, the glaring difference in skating skills was just too obvious to ignore. I could watch Poje skate all by himself. The judges were probably thinking to themselves if only he was skating this with Tessa Virtue or Elena Ilinykh. Kaitlyn is naturally softer in temperament and thus the reason why I love their latin SD from 2012.
 
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I was so excited for Laetitia Hubert. No one expected it and she was even surprised with her 5th placement in the Ladies Original Program at the 1992 Olympics.

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If she only had kept it together during the Free Skate with another amazing program, she could have possibly beat Tonya Harding. I highly doubt she had a chance for a higher score placing 3rd over Nancy Kerrigan, but still, it was a possibility that she could have placed 4th.

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At least she made history for having a very successful original program placing 5th in her home country, Albertville.
 
Simone411 said:
I was so excited for Laetitia Hubert. No one expected it and she was even surprised with her 5th placement in the Ladies Original Program at the 1992 Olympics.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
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If she only had kept it together during the Free Skate with another amazing program, she could have possibly beat Tonya Harding. I highly doubt she had a chance for a higher score placing 3rd over Nancy Kerrigan, but still, it was a possibility that she could have placed 4th.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

At least she made history for having a very successful original program placing 5th in her home country, Albertville.
Click to expand...
I was still mad at the Human Zamboni for what she did at 1991 Worlds. She was a danger to other skaters as well as herself.

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:eek: I'm still a little mad.
 
Simone411 said:
I was so excited for Laetitia Hubert. No one expected it and she was even surprised with her 5th placement in the Ladies Original Program at the 1992 Olympics.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

If she only had kept it together during the Free Skate with another amazing program, she could have possibly beat Tonya Harding. I highly doubt she had a chance for a higher score placing 3rd over Nancy Kerrigan, but still, it was a possibility that she could have placed 4th.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

At least she made history for having a very successful original program placing 5th in her home country, Albertville.
Click to expand...
If in Albertville, she had skated the free skate like she did 2 months later at Worlds, she might just sneak in for bronze or at least a close 4th.

1992 Worlds FS: 3loop, 3lutz (fall), 3flip, 3toe3toe, 3sal, 2axel, 3sal2toe, axel to 3toe sequence (fall). That final fall was silly because she didn't need that final 3toe (couldn't have counted anyways). But as much as I find her skating sloppy and her psiral sequence non-existent, she did have quite a bit of choreographic content in that program.
 
bardtoob said:
I was still mad at the Human Zamboni for what she did at 1991 Worlds. She was a danger to other skaters as well as herself.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com

:eek: I'm still a little mad.
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I'm afraid I had never seen this before. Now I'm a little mad, too. I don't know if it could have been done, but she should have been disqualified! Yep, she was a Human Zamboni and it's a wonder that she didn't plow down other skaters, too! Sheesh! :yikes:
 
The argument that Yuna was checked out and so that's she didn't win is ridiculous. It sounds way too much like the "Why don't you smile more?" comments women here all the time.

Too many fans are stuck in nostalgia and need to lose the nostalgia filter
 
I didn't say that's why she didn't win. I didn't even say she was checked out. All I said was that she looked like she didn't want to be there, and it was a negative aspect of her performance.

We can mock people who think that skaters have to sparkle off the ice all the time, because that's ridiculous. But when they're ON the ice, they're performing, and looking engaged is part of performance. It just is. 🤷‍♀️ How much would you enjoy watching an event full of glum-looking skaters?
 
Wyliefan said:
I didn't say that's why she didn't win. I didn't even say she was checked out. All I said was that she looked like she didn't want to be there, and it was a negative aspect of her performance.

We can mock people who think that skaters have to sparkle off the ice all the time, because that's ridiculous. But when they're ON the ice, they're performing, and looking engaged is part of performance. It just is. 🤷‍♀️ How much would you enjoy watching an event full of glum-looking skaters?
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"Sparkle & Shine". I can't begin to count the number of times I heard that saying back when there were all those ezboard message boards.

Even though I was a late bloomer (around 2001 0r 2002) on the World Wide Web, I already knew about all the injuries, blisters on feet because a skater had to get a new pair of skating boots and break them in. I had seen enough collisions on the ice, and even some skaters not realizing how close they were and having a collision with the wall.

I remember Michelle fracturing her foot. There was a documentary about that. I remember Todd falling and dislocating his shoulder. That didn't stop him, though. He got to the wall and somehow popped it back into place. He then continued skating and finished his program. I totally admired Todd after that because most skaters would have called it quits after an injury like that.

There have been so many injuries on the ice, and maybe someone can help me out on this one. There was a Pairs couple doing side-by-sides and they were too close. The male skater's ice blade cut the side of the female's face. And I must include the injuries caused from pairs couples falling while doing those lifts.

But even skaters like Michelle, Todd, etc. got on the ice and managed to smile, look determined, etc. Those that did that was because they loved the sport. If they didn't, they wouldn't be out there competing, injuries and all.

I've always admired any skater that gets out there on the ice and skates before an audience and millions of people watching on TV or streaming online.

So Sparkle & Shine had nothing to do with it. And of course, there were the parents that made their sons and daughters skate and compete whether they wanted to or not.
 
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coppertop1 said:
The argument that Yuna was checked out and so that's she didn't win is ridiculous. It sounds way too much like the "Why don't you smile more?" comments women here all the time.

Too many fans are stuck in nostalgia and need to lose the nostalgia filter
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I thought she was all business throughout the free skate even back then. She really just skated through the program IMO, unlike her short program which I thought was really beautiful. The free skate was just flat and didn’t really have the stand-out choreography or highs and lows. It has nothing to do with her being a woman. Yaroslav Paniot skates right through his programs, too, and I surely commented plenty on it in the Nationals threads this year, if you want a gender counterpart example.

I know I mock scored that competition a long time ago, and I am pretty confident that I had her 3rd even with the crazy PCS of Sotnikova in the free skate.
 
Bigbird said:
I love the IAM school. Really enjoying the diversity...I'm just waiting for that new 'it' team. Have no idea who it is or will be.
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I think their diversity is waning. They've identified a team as fitting x mold and develop programs for that team basically the same for that team year after year.

It will become more apparent as we get closer to 2026 Olympics. For example Fear and Gibson will get "young, fun programs".
 
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