ISU Fan Survey 2023

[skatingguy]

Surely you recognized some of the advertisers!

But did I remember that they sponsored a skating event, or do I just recognize the name of the company from somewhere else?

 

[Karen-W]

Of course, none of us is everyone else. But the service you are describing sounds expensive to maintain which means a subscription will be pricy. That's going to cut some people out. Probably more people than want to just see all of the comps live-ish.

A lot of us get Peacock for free (it's bundled in with many cable services) and I think free is a good price for watching competitions live with no replay whereas what you describe seems like way more than a $5 / month service.

The other issue with such a service is that many people watch skating starting in Sept or Oct and stop after Worlds. People already subscribe to Peacock in Oct. for Skate America and unsub after Worlds or the WTT. But this service will have costs all year round. So that's a problem they have to solve.

You mean, sort of like how FSU offers a 6-month season pass subscription and a yearly subscription? Perhaps a couple different levels of access would make the venture, if not profitable, then at least break-even.

In the end, I don't think any of this matters because I honestly don't see the ISU doing any of this. They get too much money from broadcasters still. Maybe in another 5 years when no one wants to pay for the rights to any of it, they will be motivated to start their own service.

I dunno... They have two different channels on YT - one for the JGP and one for the rest of their events (not just FS, but also speed and synchro). I wouldn't mind seeing a service or platform that has hubs for each of the four skating divisions and streams the major competitions of each division, etc. I've explored some synchro stuff and am starting to enjoy/grasp it more, which isn't something I would have done unless it was offered as part of the Peacock FS hub or available on the SkatingISU YT channel. There's an opportunity there to expand the reach and interest of fans in all skating sports, if done right.

Btw, I don't complain about how hard it is to watch skating now. [Or at least I didn't when there were replays.] I think it's incredibly easy to watch skating now and watch a lot more than was ever shown on network tv in the US. And I can watch it on my tv and not a little computer screen! Until the issues last year with replays and stuff disappearing, I felt like we were in a mecca time period when it comes to figure skating coverage. And it's still not bad even without replays on Peacock.

Agreed, but it does take a bit more creativity and willingness to seek out pirate streams or go-round the geo-blocks that exist on YT. I made the point in my survey response that I'd like to legally access these competitions instead of firing up the good ol' VPN. If enough of us say something, maybe the ISU will do something to fix the problem.

 

[Karen-W]

But did I remember that they sponsored a skating event, or do I just recognize the name of the company from somewhere else?

Welllll, they did just sponsor US Nats and their name was splashed all over the ice, KnC backdrop, logo, etc. Sure, they're a major car manufacturer, but Nats was only a few weeks ago.

 

[MacMadame]

But did I remember that they sponsored a skating event, or do I just recognize the name of the company from somewhere else?

I felt that way about some of them but I was very aware that Toyota was sponsoring the "2023 Toyota U.S. Figure Skating Championships"

Agreed, but it does take a bit more creativity and willingness to seek out pirate streams or go-round the geo-blocks that exist on YT.o'nt h

I only follow stuff that's already on Peacock so it's even easier for me.

(Seriously, the Juniors keep breaking my heart so I had to give them up and I don't have time for more than the main ones anyway.)

 

[On My Own]

But 2.5 for one GP event is probably not worth it. Unless it is 2.5 per each Discipline short program and 2.5 per each Discipline long.

2.5 dollars is a big sum for many who aren't living in western countries, especially for a sport like figure skating which isn't exactly known here. If the ISU wishes, it can choose a larger sum than that and make sure it has a small audience.

 

[once_upon]

2.5 dollars is a big sum for many who aren't living in western countries, especially for a sport like figure skating which isn't exactly known here. If the ISU wishes, it can choose a larger sum than that and make sure it has a small audience.

I'm not in the tech business or broadcast bysiness, but I do know from a volunteer position when US Nationals.was in my city, the amount of work and # of employees to produce the live broadcast is incredible. Because I was a local and had some knowledge of the arena inner area, I was assigned as a runner for the crew.

Complain all you want about the stationary cameras during practices or lower level events, but the coordination of the boom cameras, the stationary cameras, the views needed for judges review is hard work requiring a great deal of expertise.

It was amazing to hear the technical callers/assistant tech caller to note "review" and see the video marking to go back to review and slow motion. There are a lot more review calls than people know about.

That requires employees, cameras, video equipment way more than is obvious to the viewer.

Nothing is really free. Someone, somewhere with great skill and expertise is needed. The junior camera operators get lower level skaters aa they learn their trade. Someone stepping or pulling a cord - I'm surprised it doesn't happen more. Miles of cords taped in place - it's like those Mission Impossible mock up of trip wires.

Maybe there is a sliding scale reflecting income levels of poorer countries. I dont know. But making it impossible for ISU or other Federations to provide a product will not increase butts in the seats or increase viewership.

Nothing is free, not even on the Internet.

 

[On My Own]

I'm not in the tech business or broadcast bysiness, but I do know from a volunteer position when US Nationals.was in my city, the amount of work and # of employees to produce the live broadcast is incredible. Because I was a local and had some knowledge of the arena inner area, I was assigned as a runner for the crew.

Complain all you want about the stationary cameras during practices or lower level events, but the coordination of the boom cameras, the stationary cameras, the views needed for judges review is hard work requiring a great deal of expertise.

It was amazing to hear the technical callers/assistant tech caller to note "review" and see the video marking to go back to review and slow motion. There are a lot more review calls than people know about.

That requires employees, cameras, video equipment way more than is obvious to the viewer.

Nothing is really free. Someone, somewhere with great skill and expertise is needed. The junior camera operators get lower level skaters aa they learn their trade. Someone stepping or pulling a cord - I'm surprised it doesn't happen more. Miles of cords taped in place - it's like those Mission Impossible mock up of trip wires.

Maybe there is a sliding scale reflecting income levels of poorer countries. I dont know. But making it impossible for ISU or other Federations to provide a product will not increase butts in the seats or increase viewership.

Nothing is free, not even on the Internet.

I don't know why you're trying to explain costs and expenditure to me. ISU has its costs and expenditure, you think I don't know? But if you expect people of the countries that don't even have skating broadcasts and are currently getting the youtube stream for free to start paying 22.5 dollars for each grand prix event and 45 dollars for each championship, it's not happening. The ISU can say goodbye to most people, and be happy about it.

 

[once_upon]

Do you not expect to be paid for your work?

 

[On My Own]

Do you not expect to be paid for your work?

Let me ask you a different question then. Your proposal based off my reply means someone wanting to watch 6 grand prixs + GPF + the three championships needs to pay 292.5 dollars per season.

How many Americans are willing to furnish that per season, again? I imagine you'll propose the Olympics to be 10 dollars per segment per discipline as well, so I can rack that up and get back to you for the every four year fans.

If the ISU wants to promote the sport to a larger audience, it better have a reasonable sum. Or it can keep people like you who consider it "payment for work".

 

[tony]

I don't know why you're trying to explain costs and expenditure to me. ISU has its costs and expenditure, you think I don't know? But if you expect people of the countries that don't even have skating broadcasts and are currently getting the youtube stream for free to start paying 22.5 dollars for each grand prix event and 45 dollars for each championship, it's not happening. The ISU can say goodbye to most people, and be happy about it.

This is why a yearly or skating season pass could be put in place. If you can pay, then you will and if you can't, I'm sure said people will still find a way to see everything after the fact. Not much different than it is now.

Back in the day, you didn't see skating in the US unless you had network TV. My city didn't have ESPN2 as a part of any package so I often missed the short programs from Nationals and Worlds. Most countries didn't air ANYTHING and the die-hards resorted to making friends with people in the US or Canada to send them tapes. Even Europe didn't have much aside from Europeans and Worlds. The Grand Prix coverage in the US was often the most extensive in the mid 90s and early 2000s, and we only saw the top 5 or 6. Skaters in the lower ranks at Nationals had to pay a huge amount of money for Ledin or whoever else was recording events if they wanted to see themselves skate. These days, some events charge $15 or $20 for a stream for the weekend to try and make some money.

We've been spoiled for a long time with free access, and things like Ted Barton's creation of showing every last skater on the junior scene for free. But in the US, we've also had to shift from provider to provider over the last few years which drives plenty of people on this board and in skating fandom crazy.

Just because everyone got comfortable with seeking out free or pirated streams doesn't mean it has to or is going to stay that way forever. I'm all-in for a comprehensive ISU skating channel, and would put my money into it.

 

[once_upon]

Let me ask you a different question then. Your proposal means based off my reply means someone wanting to watch 6 grand prixs + GPF + the three championships needs to pay 292.5 dollars per season.

How many Americans are willing to furnish that per season, again? I imagine you'll propose the Olympics to be 10 dollars per segment per discipline as well, so I can rack that up and get back to you for the every four year fans.

So you miss the point of season subscription?
You are the one who suggested the 2.5. That was the number I used.

Just like musicians need to be paid for ther product (which there was unending discussion on THAT), so do the producers of broadcasts.

But whatever. I'll say it one more time and then I'm done. NOTHING is free. Even if it's on the internet.

 

[On My Own]

This is why a yearly or skating season pass could be put in place. If you can pay, then you will and if you can't, I'm sure said people will still find a way to see everything after the fact. Not much different than it is now.

By my proposal, 2.5*7+5*3 = 32.5, so let's say 40 dollars per season is perfectly fine.

 

[skatingguy]

Welllll, they did just sponsor US Nats and their name was splashed all over the ice, KnC backdrop, logo, etc. Sure, they're a major car manufacturer, but Nats was only a few weeks ago.

But sponsors of US Nationals don't count towards the question. The question specifies ISU Event Commercial Partner, but I still won't remember who sponsored US Nationals even when they are a major car manufacturer. Maybe when the sponsor is a major jam producer because I can remember Smucker's Skating Spectacular.

 

[tony]

By my proposal, 2.5*7+5*3 = 32.5, so let's say 40 dollars per season is perfectly fine.

I'm sure they could have the technology to do a season pass where only events from 2023/2024 were available, for example, and then a higher/premium level for archived stuff and maybe other special features. Hell, the ISU could even give a basic access free subscription that allowed for certain events to be viewed for free.

People paid more for Ice Network in the US when it had much less to offer. I don't remember how much NBC Sports Gold was but same deal there, people were willing to put money into that.

Does paying for things that were once free suck? Well yeah, but we also get so much more coverage than we did in the 90s and most of the 2000s and the ISU/member Federations/Ted Barton really haven't asked for much of anything from fans in return.

 

[On My Own]

I'm sure they could have the technology to do a season pass where only events from 2023/2024 were available, for example, and then a higher/premium level for archived stuff and maybe other special features.

40 dollars will also attract a much larger chunk of people than what is being said. If the ISU wants, it can also try a smaller sum for places out here initially, in order to build an audience, and then hike it up afterwards. Many will stay, even if not all.

Paying per event and being able to access it afterwards at any time sounds more attractive to me though. I'd pay 10 dollars per championship if that can happen.

 

[tony]

40 dollars will also attract a much larger chunk of people than what is being said. If the ISU wants, it can also try a smaller sum for places out here initially, in order to build an audience, and then hike it up afterwards. Many will stay, even if not all.

Paying per event and being able to access it afterwards at any time sounds more attractive to me though. I'd pay 10 dollars per championship if that can happen.

So to be clear, you'd rather pay $10 for each of Worlds, World Juniors, Europeans, and Four Continents for example to total $40 just for those four events? A season pass can probably be $40 or $60 or whatever and tons of people will still pay from all over the world IMO, and you get a lot more to watch.

If they really do go into a ton of archived stuff, I certainly think I'd pay $10 a month or whatever the asking price was. But I've seen just about every single video that has ever been made available and have a huge database of information on performances, so I'm always down for finding new and previously unseen stuff that I'm sure the ISU has sitting on a shelf in Switzerland.

 

[On My Own]

So to be clear, you'd rather pay $10 for each of Worlds, World Juniors, Europeans, and Four Continents for example to total $40 just for those four events? A season pass can probably be $40 or $60 or whatever and tons of people will still pay from all over the world IMO, and you get a lot more to watch.

I'd have a 40 dollar season pass, or I can pay a per event pass with ensured archiving, whichever I find better depending on the season and event and the people competing in any given event. I think having this separation is also good for people who don't have the time to watch all season, but still want to tune into worlds.

So for example, I can pay 10 dollars for 2023 worlds and 2024 worlds and 2025 worlds, because I only care about worlds. But for the Olympic season, I can pay 40 dollars so I can keep up with the entire season, and I can add up some additional money so that the Olympic event can stay archived on my account.

 

[skatingguy]

Is anyone familiar with the site 'Recast' which is mentioned in the questionnaire? I had never heard of it before, but it seems like it might be the site that the ISU wants to use.

Useful links

Maintain complete control of your rights by embedding your content on your website. Unlock extra revenue with chosen affiliate websites too. Set your own price per view, geo-blocking + more.

watch.recast.tv

 

[tony]

Is anyone familiar with the site 'Recast' which is mentioned in the questionnaire? I had never heard of it before, but it seems like it might be the site that the ISU wants to use.

Useful links

Maintain complete control of your rights by embedding your content on your website. Unlock extra revenue with chosen affiliate websites too. Set your own price per view, geo-blocking + more.

watch.recast.tv

They already have some stuff up:

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Maintain complete control of your rights by embedding your content on your website. Unlock extra revenue with chosen affiliate websites too. Set your own price per view, geo-blocking + more.

watch.recast.tv

 

[skatingguy]

They already have some stuff up:

Useful links

Maintain complete control of your rights by embedding your content on your website. Unlock extra revenue with chosen affiliate websites too. Set your own price per view, geo-blocking + more.

watch.recast.tv

I saw that - all speed skating content from the past couple weeks, and some promotional videos.

 

[On My Own]

Oh and it would be good if we had commentary + no commentary options! Season pass can also be made more attractive by adding exclusive interviews and fluff.

 

[skategal]

Interesting that for the questions on "which games would you like to play online" and "which of these advertisers do you recognize" there was no option for "none of the above".....

The advertising question needed a “none of the above” response.

I barely recognized one of the sponsors as being related to figure skating. That was it.

If Canadian Tire or Ollie’s Bargain Basement was listed, I would have been all over that question.

 

[On My Own]

Maybe it's a commentary on the state of skating that I look at the boards more often than the ice, but I recognized Canon and Citizen. And Toyota. And Audi used to host cup of china. And Kose because who can avoid its mention on twitter (no really, genuine question).

 

[Dave of the North]

I did the survey. When do I get my prize? I did recognize some of the sponsors.

There was some discussion about Recast last year on curlingzone and some people were unhappy about paying for events that were "free" in the past.

 

[once_upon]

The US used to have Ice Network, which I believe it's first season was $29. Mostly US events. Then the next season was $49.

The amount of complaining about poor video, interrupted video, chalking of skaters in the last two flights (due to contractual agreement with NBC) flooded the FSU pbp threads. And we had commentary from 2nd rate commentators like Nancy K, Michael W, Tonia K and others.

Before Ice Network in the US we had NBC only, showing the top three skaters. Maybe skater 6, 8 if they were US skaters. Before NBC, we had ABC Wide World of Sports with skating segments 1 or 2 times a year with 1 or 2 skaters.

Before that we had "reporters in the field", aka FSU posters who would report in what was really pbp threads - live descriptions of skating from the arenas.

Since IN, we've had the Olympic Channel which is now defunct. Then we had Peacock - I don't know cost as it was part of my streaming package, with unlimited US replays. But I still needed to subscribe to ISU you tube channel. Yes, Peacock dropped replays this year.

People would/do post links to other competitions, which as naive as I am, it took me a time to understand these were pirated access.

Maybe I'm a prude or a rule follower - I tried to not use those. WHY - you ask? It has to do with my husband and son developing their own products. When people steal their products they lose revenue. It's not right plus their product gets branded as inferior because someone is getting an inferior product from another source.

People get what they pay for. Have an Ice Network subscription rate - get IN quality. And to make up lost revenue, you'll get unending commercial popup ads. Free or low cost access will have to generate revenue through some other source -ie ads or decrease the level of product

Personally I do not want interviews or fluff. I do not want quizzes or games.

Economics is economics. No organization or service exists without being able to recover costs to produce a product.

 

[On My Own]

If we're talking about "economics", I imagine the ISU would like to build an actual audience that can actually watch skating on TV or streaming services first. If this audience can stick around an entire season, likes skating, and finds skaters it wants to support, then part of it will also travel to the nearest location to watch skating in person.

Or it can have 400 dollars per season and the 5 people out west who're willing to pay for it. Whichever works.

 

[Primorskaya]

Just completed it. So that's one more person requesting a proper archive, of whole events, going as far back as possible.

 

[quartz]

Done. Also requested archives. Prefer a one-time subscription for the season. Not interested at all in games puzzles quizzes contests, ugh, just give me skating please. Advertisers, yeah, I’ve likely seen most of those but advertising is everywhere and I don’t know where I’ve necessarily seen ads, as I mostly ignore them anyways.

 

[once_upon]

I noticed someone up thread said you tube was "free".

Not in my universe. I had to buy an ISU subscription for for ISU access. Then I discovered, I only purchased the mobile version and could not watch ISU channel on my laptop or smart TV without paying for an additional upgrade.

No matter what, skating fandom like found with posters on FSU, Golden Skate, ISU forums is not the norm. Doesn't matter where you are in the world, skating is a niche, exclusive, expensive sport. Viewership will never be huge numbers unless another star set like Michelle, Tara, Irina, Maria or a Katerina Witt or G/G come along.

Why are soccer, football, basketball, baseball, tennis, golf, cricket, and even racing viewing options much more available on TV/streaming services and have more butts in the seats? Because a) anyone can see themselves in their backyard or local leagues actually or have done that sport. People kind of get the rules because they played it. However, you still pay for streaming access. There is only limited free broadcast access with blackout in some areas.

Anyway, this is a mute discussion. ISU and national Federations and streaming services including you tube are going to do what they are. going to do.

 

[Baby Yoda On Skates]

NBC Sports Gold was $60 for the year and I happily threw money at them to get the full events. An ISU year sub to access skating would only be following the same model.