Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[Karen-W]

So, I bet that this thread hits 100 pages before there's a resolution from CAS...

 

[rfisher]

My guesses are that she either meant that Eteri knew that she wasn't going to win over Anna and Kamila even if she threw a bunch more quads than them or she meant that Eteri knew others were doping.

It was that she wasn't going to win even with the 5 quads. Anna and Kamilla always got better PCS scores than she did and they both had 2 quads and Kamila had a 3A. The odds of Sasha winning against them was always problematic unless they made mistakes. And, neither of them knew they weren't going to have a shot at the team gold until just before the event. The decision to split pairs rather than women was unexpected. It was pretty much the same melt down Medvedeva had with regard to Zagitova.

 

[VGThuy]

I notice the difference between gymnastics competitors and skating ones. The athletes in gymnastics seem much more...knowledgeable about their D-score and their scoring potential so they sort of expect a certain rank if everybody performs well. But they also don't give up and are inspired to compete because gymnastics is highly volatile and there's almost NEVER a competition where EVERYBODY in medal contention performs well. Even gold medal favorites can make one error and lose an entire medal because many errors can devastate a score, and it's very easy to make errors on those apparatuses.

Shawn Johnson sort of alluded to it in Beijing knowing that Nastia had the D-score advantage and knowing if Nastia got through bars and beam ok, it would be hard for her to win the gold. Of course, she was still very sad about losing and had to put on a brave face, but she also was able to regroup and win a beam gold and floor silver, and has been able to get over it and become best friends with Nastia.

I remember when Aly Raisman was having lunch with other athletes when Chelsea Handler used to have her show, and she said she went into the 2016 FX final knowing she probably wasn't going to defend her title as she knew Simone Biles just had a much higher D-score than she did, and she felt really ok with it because she knew her and her coaches did everything they could to maximize her scoring potential with what she could control and was capable of doing. It probably helps that there's a whole team event where every woman on the team can get a medal and gymnastics fosters much more team-environment with there's more camaraderie among the teammates.

 

[Trillian]

I think they knew she and likely others were doping and they thought she would get a negative test, as she has in the past.

Bingo. They thought the test would be negative because all her previous tests had been negative, and so were the other tests for the children they’ve been drugging for years. There’s no logical way that one single gold medal favorite in one sport suddenly started doping a few months before the Olympics in a country with a proud tradition of state-sponsored doping across many sports. They expected to get away with it because they’ve been getting away with it.

 

[carriecmu0503]

It was that she wasn't going to win even with the 5 quads. Anna and Kamilla always got better PCS scores than she did and they both had 2 quads and Kamila had a 3A. The odds of Sasha winning against them was always problematic unless they made mistakes. And, neither of them knew they weren't going to have a shot at the team gold until just before the event. The decision to split pairs rather than women was unexpected. It was pretty much the same melt down Medvedeva had with regard to Zagitova.

Russia did not split pairs. They did not split any discipline. They could have split 2 but chose not to use any splits in 2022.

 

[Karen-W]

Russia did not split pairs. They did not split any discipline. They could have split 2 but chose not to use any splits in 2022.

Yes, and, frankly, I've thought all along they should have split pairs and women if they were bound and determined to use SinKats in both phases, rather stupidly. Instead, they just went with the newly crowned Euros champs in each discipline and called it a day.

 

[rfisher]

Russia did not split pairs. They did not split any discipline. They could have split 2 but chose not to use any splits in 2022.

That's right. Mish/Gal did both which made the fact the OGMs between the 3 women were even more of an issue. The expectation without splitting them was that Valieva would likely win 2 leaving Trusova and Scherbakova with silver and bronze. Which might well have happened. Trusova and her parents were not happy with the decision. If they'd split the women, in theory all three could have had a gold if the odd skater out won the individual aka Sotnikova, but 2 would have for certain. There was a lot of money at stake for the skaters. I suspect Sasha's expectation was that Valieva and Scherbakova would do the team event and Trusova's 5 quads would win the individual OGM. And, she blamed Tutberidze when that didn't happen.

 

[Vagabond]

Yes, and, frankly, I've thought all along they should have split pairs and women if they were bound and determined to use SinKats in both phases, rather stupidly. Instead, they just went with the newly crowned Euros champs in each discipline and called it a day.

As we know with hindsight, none if this would have made any difference unless Valieva was off the team. If there was anyone involved in the selection who was ignorant of both the doping itself and the test results, leaving Valieva off the team must have been inconceivable.

 

[Lilia A]

I really thought they'd sub in Diana and Gleb so Eteri could have her golden daughter. Maybe they were going to but realized they couldn't after USA took the lead going into the last day. Why were they in the K&C? Speaking of dance, I just realized something. Let's say they don't DSQ everyone and only redistribute the women's points. ROC would miss out on bronze by only 1 point, which means that S/K losing to the Americans on both portions would end up being very significant. I never expected M/G to beat S/H and no Russian man was ever going to beat Nathan, Shoma and Yuma, so it all falls on S/K. That'd be pretty funny, actually. I still think they should all be DSQ'd like the Chinese team in Sydney with the underage gymnast.

 

[Bigbird]

It was all about weight control, IMHO. Have we forgotten Julia Lipnitskaya's powder diet? Kamila was most likely being given small doses of the substance in question to protect her heart as the physical loads were very high in the run up to the OGs. They just got sloppy, gave her too high a dose. Only God alone knows if the others were also doping.

 

[Rob]

This must be what Trusova was ranting about. Eteri knew that Valieva was positive but had chosen still for whatever reason to let Valieva compete. It is incredulous to this day that her positive test result was not known. For this very reason alone, Russia should be stripped of the gold medal. The medal would have been theirs if they simply substituted a clean skater but they chose not to and we have what we now have.

What does “pending positive” mean? That they knew it was positive but were awaiting the B sample? Or that every sample is considered positive until the results are released as a negative?

 

[dewey]

It was all about weight control, IMHO. Have we forgotten Julia Lipnitskaya's powder diet? Kamila was most likely being given small doses of the substance in question to protect her heart as the physical loads were very high in the run up to the OGs. They just got sloppy, gave her too high a dose. Only God alone knows if the others were also doping.

What was about weight control? I don’t doubt that Eteri’s skaters are kept on unhealthy diets, but the drugs in Kamilla’s system were to increase endurance, reduce recovery time, and reduce fatigue.

 

[Spikefan]

What was about weight control? I don’t doubt that Eteri’s skaters are kept on unhealthy diets, but the drugs in Kamilla’s system were to increase endurance, reduce recovery time, and reduce fatigue.

Drugs metabolize differently based on weight, water intake, etc. They calculated wrong that week.

 

[Orm Irian]

What was about weight control? I don’t doubt that Eteri’s skaters are kept on unhealthy diets, but the drugs in Kamilla’s system were to increase endurance, reduce recovery time, and reduce fatigue.

As with all of Tutberidze's skaters, Valieva was pressured to keep her weight as low as she possibly could at all times, but her dosage would have needed to be calculated for a specific body weight so it would both be effective and pass out of her system in time for testing. If she dropped even a little weight in between dosage calculation and the testing done at Nationals, the substance wouldn't have fully passed out of her system by the time the test was done.

 

[ChelleC]

My guesses are that she either meant that Eteri knew that she wasn't going to win over Anna and Kamila even if she threw a bunch more quads than them or she meant that Eteri knew others were doping.

I think the "you knew all along" is totally about Eteri knowing that Trusova would not win gold no matter how many quads she did. Yet, they told her all along that if she'd hit her quads then she'd win.

 

[Bigbird]

I think the "you knew all along" is totally about Eteri knowing that Trusova would not win gold no matter how many quads she did. Yet, they told her all along that if she'd hit her quads then she'd win.

You really think she bought that? That is incredulous. Even with all her quads unless she was dilusional was she ever going to outscore Valieva? Valieva who has the triple axel and quads and the polish and extensions? I hardly doubt that. I thought she could outdo Anna but not Kamila. She was also making too many errors with her short.

 

[caseyedwards]

Bingo. They thought the test would be negative because all her previous tests had been negative, and so were the other tests for the children they’ve been drugging for years. There’s no logical way that one single gold medal favorite in one sport suddenly started doping a few months before the Olympics in a country with a proud tradition of state-sponsored doping across many sports. They expected to get away with it because they’ve been getting away with it.

All of Sports is state sponsored. You can’t just say doping is state sponsored.

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe she "knew" what the scores would most likely be, but once she hit the LP of her life and had the adrenaline rushing, she maybe allowed herself to believe an upset could happen. Then it didn't and the hammer of disappointment and angst came crashing down, and it just all came out, and maybe part of her ranting was her verbalizing truths she already knew herself.

 

[Bigbird]

Maybe she "knew" what the scores would most likely be, but once she hit the LP of her life and had the adrenaline rushing, she maybe allowed herself to believe an upset could happen. Then it didn't and the hammer of disappointment and angst came crashing down, and it just all came out, and maybe part of her ranting was her verbalizing truths she already knew herself.

Hmm, but test skates was a much better performance, right? Her tears and tantrums IMHO came from a different place.

 

[Coco]

I believe Valieva was sick right before Nationals or during Nationals. I remember somebody theorizing that her illness may have been what caused the doping calibration to be off, resulting in the failed test.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

You really think she bought that? That is incredulous. Even with all her quads unless she was dilusional was she ever going to outscore Valieva? Valieva who has the triple axel and quads and the polish and extensions? I hardly doubt that. I thought she could outdo Anna but not Kamila. She was also making too many errors with her short.

Do you really believe that Sasha Trusova of ALL people went to the Olympics believing that she couldn’t win?

 

[Bigbird]

Do you really believe that Sasha Trusova of ALL people went to the Olympics believing that she couldn’t win?

That's why she comes across like such an entitled brat. She didn't lay down the performances to give her that confidence. That father of hers though...

 

[caseyedwards]

I believe Valieva was sick right before Nationals or during Nationals. I remember somebody theorizing that her illness may have been what caused the doping calibration to be off, resulting in the failed test.

lol doping calibration

 

[Lilia A]

That's why she comes across like such an entitled brat.

Now that's not a very nice thing to say. You saw an entitled brat, I saw an abuse victim having a nervous breakdown. I'm not a fan, if you must know, I would've said that about any skater from that HQ. Or even from other HQs, there are abusive coaches everywhere but some are better at hiding it, like Mie Hamada for example.

 

[Bigbird]

Now that's not a very nice thing to say. You saw an entitled brat, I saw an abuse victim having a nervous breakdown. I'm not a fan, if you must know, I would've said that about any skater from that HQ. Or even from other HQs, there are abusive coaches everywhere but some are better at hiding it, like Mie Hamada for example.

You see Trusova being dominated by anyone, even Eteri T.? Has she ever really headed the advise of her coaches? This is no such daisy. She reminds me of Gubanova and her former coach. Ms. Gubanova told her coach a thing or two removed herself from an abusive situation and is now European Champion. Apparently Ms. Trusova's father is also a man of means....so....

Edit: It would be very difficult to see her and her father as anything else when I recall how she tried to browbeat Plushenko within his own school. Umm, no.

 

[Lilia A]

Sometimes the people who look toughest on the outside are the most sensitive and vulnerable. Don't be fooled by appearances. Also don't believe everything you see in the Russian media. Once they choose a narrative for someone, they are stuck with it forever. You only see what they choose to show you. Anyway let's not keep going off topic. I'm the first one to be annoyed when this happens so I don't know why I'm even responding.

 

[On My Own]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1628045464544182272

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

I believe the disqualification period WADA is seeking would not have been as severe if they had just kept her from skating in the Olympics and accepted the positive violation and resulting investigation.

 

[screech]

I do not think that 4 years will be granted. I think the 'ban', if any, will be 1-2 years. Meaning 'reinstatement' at the end of this season or next.

 

[Karen-W]

I believe the disqualification period WADA is seeking would not have been as severe if they had just kept her from skating in the Olympics and accepted the positive violation and resulting investigation.

I do not think that 4 years will be granted. I think the 'ban', if any, will be 1-2 years. Meaning 'reinstatement' at the end of this season or next.

I agree with both of you. If RUSADA had given her more than a mere tap on the wrist in losing her RusNat title from last season and demonstrated that doping will NOT be tolerated, even if that meant losing out on the coveted team gold, then this would be a far different conversation. WADA is, clearly, still pretty pissed off with RUSADA.

Hopefully CAS won't let this drag out another year.