ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus

[Dobre]

Dmytro Kuleba:

https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1619340096507117568?cxt=HHwWgIDU7Z7PhvksAAAA

"The efforts of the IOC to sweep Russian war crimes under the rug is a testament to how far the Olympic gods have become detached from reality. The IOC is willing to trample on the graves of thousands of innocent people who have been and are being killed by Russians."

 

[Hedwig]

In the summer Olys, there are a lot of African delegations, particularly in track and field, and for a variety of reasons most of their countries have not been anti-Russian. Sports like gymnastics are centered in NA, Europe and east Asia and with the exception of China those countries have been clear where they stand. So it may vary.

I swear if the ISU buckles I’ll use my retirement time to help organize a fan protest movement. We did it once before.

Can you start it now? Better than having to fight to throw them out again.
I really want to keep on watching skating and I would not be able to to if Russian skaters are on the ice. And I have not a lot of confidence in the system that they will be able to determine who is one and keep those at home.

 

[koatcue]

Ugly thread

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Ugly thread

Ugly business.

 

[PRlady]

Can you start it now? Better than having to fight to throw them out again.
I really want to keep on watching skating and I would not be able to to if Russian skaters are on the ice. And I have not a lot of confidence in the system that they will be able to determine who is one and keep those at home.

There’s a lot I don’t understand about the IOC/ISU relationship and ISU structure and rule making. I’ll put my nerdy advocacy self to work as I can and look into it. My experience with SkateFAIR 20 years ago taught me that sports federations have very different pressure points than legislatures and other political bodies, and I’m no expert.

It’s also true that this is a delicate balance. On the one hand, the vast majority of us don’t want to see Russian skaters who skate for Russia participating in ISU events as long as Russia is perpetrating an aggressive war and war crimes. Additionally there is the doping issue, which is handled differently.

But as I’m personally aware, once you take a step in a massive geopolitical issue, things get complicated. I’m an American who lives in Israel part of the time. My own country has been complicit in some awful things. More to the point, given the new government in Israel, the violence that is starting to erupt again and the possibility of massive military repression, I personally and anyone else involved in this would be vulnerable to complicated whatabout arguments. They can be answered but it’s inherently controversial.

In short, it’s worth considering. But it’s a much more complex undertaking than forming an ad-hoc group against corrupt judging.

 

[misskarne]

From Kallas & Zelenskyy:

https://twitter.com/kajakallas/status/1619373934172045312?cxt=HHwWgIDQje2AlvksAAAA

Kallas: "Disappointed by @Olympics decision to allow Russian and Belarusian athletes to attend 2024 Paris games. Politically and morally wrong – time to strengthen isolation, not give in to Russia. Sport is a tool in Russia’s propaganda machine, ignoring that means siding with aggression."

Zelenskyy: "We know how often tyrannies try to use sports for their ideological interests. It is obvious that any neutral flag of Russian athletes is stained with blood. I invite Mr. Bach to Bakhmut. So that he could see with his own eyes that neutrality does not exist."

Oh, I like Mr Zelenskyy's idea. Perhaps it ought to be expanded. All the Russian athletes who are crying about discrimination should be made to go to Bakhmut - but secretly, so that the Russian army does not know they are there. We'll see how much crying they do then.

 

[skatingguy]

On the issue of participation of Russian & Belarussian athletes in future editions of the Olympics, and ISU events I think we should take our lead from the Ukrainians.

 

[On My Own]

On the issue of participation of Russian & Belarussian athletes in future editions of the Olympics, and ISU events I think we should take our lead from the Ukrainians.

I don't think most will even if we wish they would...

 

[Vagabond]

Ugly thread

You broke an eight-year silence to post  that?

 

[Rainbow]

There’s a lot I don’t understand about the IOC/ISU relationship and ISU structure and rule making. I’ll put my nerdy advocacy self to work as I can and look into it. My experience with SkateFAIR 20 years ago taught me that sports federations have very different pressure points than legislatures and other political bodies, and I’m no expert.

It’s also true that this is a delicate balance. On the one hand, the vast majority of us don’t want to see Russian skaters who skate for Russia participating in ISU events as long as Russia is perpetrating an aggressive war and war crimes. Additionally there is the doping issue, which is handled differently.

But as I’m personally aware, once you take a step in a massive geopolitical issue, things get complicated. I’m an American who lives in Israel part of the time. My own country has been complicit in some awful things. More to the point, given the new government in Israel, the violence that is starting to erupt again and the possibility of massive military repression, I personally and anyone else involved in this would be vulnerable to complicated whatabout arguments. They can be answered but it’s inherently controversial.

In short, it’s worth considering. But it’s a much more complex undertaking than forming an ad-hoc group against corrupt judging.

On the other hand, it`s been done before. South Africa was expelled for several Olympic Games and even expelled completely from the IOC. I think, what should be considered also from a sports view and may be different to most other wars and human rights issues in other contries is, that Russia destroys training facilities on a large scale in a way that seems to be deliberate.

 

[airgelaal]

International Olympic Committee

https://twitter.com/x/status/1619700506481557512

And Sabalenka after winning AO

https://twitter.com/x/status/1619326990347288577

Neutral athletes are so neutral

 

[ninjapirate]

I don't know where to put this, so I'll put it here. The Ukrainian federation wrote a press release angry with Georgian federation for including Russian coaches.

УФФК

The only reason posting about this is they only mention Dudakov and Gleikhengauz. Valentin Molotov who sat with Gubanova is unmentioned. He's not a major figure so it makes sense not to mention him. But the Ukrainian skater at Euros was Anastasia Gozhva and she used to train train in St Petersburg. And while you can't find a trace of this on either of their instagram accounts, she used to date Molotov(in fact I'm pretty sure they were either engaged or married). I only found it notable because I found it weird and knew it wouldn't last. Doesn't mean anything, I just found it kind of funny.

 

[TAHbKA]

I don't know where to put this, so I'll put it here. The Ukrainian federation wrote a press release angry with Georgian federation for including Russian coaches.

УФФК

The only reason posting about this is they only mention Dudakov and Gleikhengauz. Valentin Molotov who sat with Gubanova is unmentioned. He's not a major figure so it makes sense not to mention him. But the Ukrainian skater at Euros was Anastasia Gozhva and she used to train train in St Petersburg. And while you can't find a trace of this on either of their instagram accounts, she used to date Molotov(in fact I'm pretty sure they were either engaged or married). I only found it notable because I found it weird and knew it wouldn't last. Doesn't mean anything, I just found it kind of funny.

Valentin Molotov represented Georgia with Angelina Telegina at the time. I assume he still has a Georgian passport. Would be weird if they have mentioned him

Hm.. after going to wiki - Telegina represented GEO with Japaridze later. For some reason I remembered Molotov skating for GEO as well

 

[MacMadame]

Ugly thread

War is ugly.

In short, it’s worth considering. But it’s a much more complex undertaking than forming an ad-hoc group against corrupt judging.

One thing will be more straightforward, I think. Last time we wanted to keep details of our protest secret until the protest happened. This time I see no need for that. I think the goal right now should be organizing public indignation so it can be done publicly.

My suggestion is to start with a petition to Bach and the IOC. The second step would be to work the Opinion circuit -- letters to the editor, posts on social media, and maybe even an editorial in a major news source (or two or more), if we can swing it.

For the ISU, we need to see what their response is. But if they don't respond at all (silence is acquiescence) or they respond as if they are going to consider allowing Russian athletes back, we can do the same to them, starting with a petition.

I think the public needs to make their displeasure known early and often. Our eyeballs are what bring in the sponsors and advertisers. Obviously, there are behind-the-scenes people to pressure but that will require research as you suggested.

I don't think this is an area where a protest would work. There are too many sports spread all across the globe which would dilute the impact. Not to say that we may not need one later depending on what the ISU's response is. But I am that they will respond appropriately.

Note: This should be an international outcry so the crimes of the US would not be much of a sword against it. The best they can say is "other countries do bad stuff too."

 

[airgelaal]

Official position of Ukrainian NOC

 

[airgelaal]

Volodymyr Klichko, Olympic champion

https://twitter.com/x/status/1620086215121965057

 

[coppertop1]

I can't imagine what Ukrainians are going through. I'm amazed that the Ukrainian athletes are able the focus as compete. The IOC and all the as sports federations need to listen to them.

 

[reut]

Additional development today.

So russians said this earlier today:
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1132952/ioc-neutrality-criticised-russia-oca

And IOC answered this:
https://twitter.com/iocmedia/status/1620496195323064320
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1133161/paris-2024-russia-stanislav-pozdnyakov

 

[Karen-W]

Additional development today.

So russians said this earlier today:
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1132952/ioc-neutrality-criticised-russia-oca

And IOC answered this:
https://twitter.com/iocmedia/status/1620496195323064320
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1133161/paris-2024-russia-stanislav-pozdnyakov

I mean... if Russia wants to insist on their flag, colors, and anthem, then I suppose they can just sit out of international competition f9rbthe foreseeable future, no?

 

[airgelaal]

I mean... if Russia wants to insist on their flag, colors, and anthem, then I suppose they can just sit out of international competition f9rbthe foreseeable future, no?

I think the russians want to do a big favor to the world and agree to a neutral status. They know that without them the Olympic Games will disappear, so they agree even to such humiliations

 

[ChelleC]

I mean... if Russia wants to insist on their flag, colors, and anthem, then I suppose they can just sit out of international competition f9rbthe foreseeable future, no?

That sounds like a plan to me.

Honestly at this point if I were at a competition, the winner was Russian, and the anthem was played, I'd catergorically refuse to stand.

 

[coppertop1]

I think the russians want to do a big favor to the world and agree to a neutral status. They know that without them the Olympic Games will disappear, so they agree even to such humiliations

They have such a victim complex, it would be funny if what they were so wasn't so dirty. They're spoiled brats.

 

[PRlady]

Skating is one of the “conflicted” sports mentioned here: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/0...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

 

[hoptoad]

So how do we best push back on that?

Or at least make our side of the conflict louder and more persuasive?

What's the best sound bite friendly way of stating the position "No Russia at the Olympic Games" that won't get twisted around?

 

[clairecloutier]

Interesting that figure skating is listed as a “conflicted” sport here, because I feel like the ISU’s stance has actually been pretty clear, at least to this point.

I think what would get the most attention is if some U.S. politicians or former well-known athletes could speak out against the participation of Russia.

The IOC shouldn’t have opened this can of worms IMO. Russia had already been signaling that they weren’t necessarily ready to come back on anyone else’s terms.

 

[Yuri]

I think the closest you could get would be commemorations on the big anniversaries of either VE Day or VJ Day. For example, for the 75th anniversary in 2020, which was rather toned down due to the pandemic.

In photos: Muted celebrations mark the 75th anniversary of VE Day | CNN

May 8 marks the 75th anniversary of the end of World War II in Europe, otherwise known as Victory in Europe (VE) Day.

www.cnn.com

OK, so I should have used the word "commemorate" instead of "celebrate" when referencing V-E and V-J Days as far as the US is concerned. Still, I cannot imagine no one has heard of V-J Day as one of the most iconic photographs ever--the US sailor kissing a nurse in Times Square--was taken during the euphoria on August 15, 1945 (September 2 is the day the peace treaties were signed). Admittedly these WW II holidays now are commemorated only on major anniversaries along with June 4, 1944 (Normandy invasion) and December 7, 1941 (Pearl Harbor) bombing. Alas, memories fade as the heroic WW II veterans continue to pass away, and Memorial Day and Veterans Day have become catch-all holidays for celebrations of military service in the US.

The Woman in the Iconic V-J Day Kiss Photo Died at 92, Here's Her Story

There’s more to the image than meets the eye

www.smithsonianmag.com

The Russian people certainly have been victimized by over a century of horrific tyrants since the Bolshevik Revolution, from Lenin and Stalin during the Soviet days to Putin currently. Those of us living in free countries rarely have a clue about how the iron fist of totalitarianism limits citizens' abilities to protest their own government's actions. I think it is unrealistic to expect the Russian figure skaters to openly resist the Putin government, especially with all the propaganda (a great word of Russian origin). I am far more upset about the former skaters like Navka, Plushenko, and Zhulin who lived/performed for many years in the US and have no excuse for not knowing any better compared to athletes who tend to be clueless about the world beyond what happens in the rink.

Russia-Ukraine is terrible but it's a fight among two bordering nations essentially run by dictators that were both of part of the Soviet Union until around three decades ago. It ain't World War II with about 15 million military and 45 million civilian deaths, so I cannot see the banning of Germany and Japan from the 1948 Olympics as rational precedent for Russia in 2024/2026. I feel bad for both the Ukrainian and Russian people caught in the middle of the war. I've also never been for boycotts of the Olympics like the US for the 1980 Summer Olympics in Moscow with retaliation by the USSR for the 1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles. In the end, nothing political was accomplished except ruining the Olympics dreams of many elite athletes as collateral damage.

 

[Andora]

Russia-Ukraine is terrible but it's a fight among two bordering nations essentially run by dictators that were both of part of the Soviet Union until around three decades ago. It ain't World War II with about 15 million military and 45 million civilian deaths, so I cannot see the banning of Germany and Japan from the 1948 Olympics as rational precedent for Russia in 2024/2026. I feel bad for both the Ukrainian and Russian people caught in the middle of the war. I've also never been for boycotts of the Olympics like the US for the 1980 Summer Olympics in Moscow with retaliation by the USSR for the 1984 Summer Olympics in Los Angeles. In the end, nothing political was accomplished except ruining the Olympics dreams of many elite athletes as collateral damage.

Zelensky is a dictator?

Russian people are caught in the middle of a war fought outside of their border? (A war we're seeing many of them be very snide and dehumanizing about, no less)

You can't see rationale for banning Russia from competition for being a belligerent aggressor in this war - after years of being a belligerent aggressor in other corners, including the wrongful annexing of Crimea?

Can you explain this to me a bit better? Because it borders on "poor Russia" which no one has time or patience for currently.

 

[On My Own]

especially with all the propaganda (a great word of Russian origin).

Isn't it of Latin origin?

 

[skatingguy]

Isn't it of Latin origin?

Yes, from Latin to Italian.

 

[Vagabond]

Skating is one of the “conflicted” sports mentioned here: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/0...ytcore-ios-share&referringSource=articleShare

Are you sure that's the right link?