Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

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Someone mentioned moderating comments but as someone who moderates for a very popular Twitch stream (we're talking 60k-100k+ viewers during events), it's an exhausting job sometimes. We have a small army of mods, and I still have to step away for a break at times. Reading hate for hours straight that you're responsible to action in some way can drain you. So while it could definitely work, it would require more people than you likely think.
 
The ISU commentary has always been that way. It just depends on who the posters hate today. The Koreans were brutal toward Sotnikova. The Japanese fans were brutal toward the Koreans during the Mao/Kim days. The Russians are brutal to their own skaters and everybody else today. Some are hateful just because they take delight in being that way and nobody can stop them. Don't read it if it offends you. Just turn the chat function off. IMHO, anybody who reads the chat function wants to read it. And, if you post comments from there elsewhere, you're the problem, not the people on the chat. It's like a little kid running to tattle on someone.
 
rfisher said:
IMHO, anybody who reads the chat function wants to read it.
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I didn't disagree I wanted to read it this time.
rfisher said:
And, if you post comments from there elsewhere, you're the problem, not the people on the chat. It's like a little kid running to tattle on someone.
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No, I'd say the nationalism from the Russians over this issue is 100% the problem. I agree I tattled. However, I stand by tattling, when it's the behaviour from people of the offending country over this matter, and one of the things I'd posted about was the harassment a public figure is getting over this on her public social media account.

If these things are me being "the problem", then I don't mind it.

Is there a reason why so many fans in figure skating believe "you are the problem for reading the comments, you could just not read" is such a big dunk? Does it make any sense to not discuss things like online harassment? When people are online, things like these do affect mental health, and that includes public figures. Mental health is part of any sport, and many other things in life.
 
On My Own said:
I didn't disagree I wanted to read it this time.

No, I'd say the nationalism from the Russians over this issue is 100% the problem. I agree I tattled. However, I stand by tattling, when it's the behaviour from people of the offending country over this matter, and one of the things I'd posted about was the harassment a public figure is getting over this on her public social media account.

If these things are me being "the problem", then I don't mind it.
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All I can say is you haven't checked in on the chat function before because nationalism is the norm from pretty much everybody who comments there and has always been the case. Long before the current issue with Russia. It's nothing new or different. That's why there is an option to close the chat.
 
The chat is not the same thing as the Comments.

On My Own said:
Genuinely curious - would the ISU videos stay up if monetized? Music licenses and all?
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If there are ads, the channel is being monetized directly, and the channel owners who qualify for commissions because they have X number of subscribers get a tiny amount for everyone who watches the video to the end, if under a certain length, or until the length needed to qualify (One YT channel person said 30 seconds. I don't know if it's variable.)

The comments impact the algorithms that determine what should be "recommended" to draw more eyeballs to the ads, presumably because they indicate engagement, if the account has enough subscribers to be paid. Before that, it drives people to view the channel, so that interest will increase and get the channel more subscribers to qualify for ad income. I assume "likes" have an impact, too.

I never used to comment on anything. I'd shut off ads as soon as I could. I wouldn't bother to subscribe, but would bookmark instead. Now if I want to support a channel, I'll comment, get something to eat, etc. and let ads run for a while, and subscribe.

I always turn off chats: even if what is being said is innocuous, I find the flashing and scrolling distracting.
 
On My Own said:
Genuinely curious - would the ISU videos stay up if monetized? Music licenses and all?
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If the license is paid, then the owner of the music would have no reason to issue a DMCA takedown request. However, NBC has broadcast rights and I believe they require exclusivity. So they would probably issue the request. I think they are the ones doing it now most of the time.

Right now, the ISU does put up vids on its channel. We have to get USFS to negotiate with NBC to do the same. If USFS archived all the events on YouTube, then what Peacock does with replays would be irrelevant. This is what happens with ISU events now -- they go on the ISU channel after being broadcast in various countries so it must be in their contracts with each broadcaster that they can do this.
 
rfisher said:
And, if you post comments from there elsewhere, you're the problem, not the people on the chat. It's like a little kid running to tattle on someone.
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And what exactly is wrong with that? Attitudes like yours are partly why cultures of silence that perpetuate abuse exist.

Kids shouldn’t have to put up with being hit, insulted, or put down. This whole “don’t tattle” culture is just lazy supervision, telling kids “I don’t care enough to deal with the abuse you’re suffering.” It’s wholly disgusting.
 
coppertop1 said:
Getting tired of people talking about being fair to Russia when they repeatedly break the rules. What about fairness to the clean athletes?
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A court shouldn't be making biased decisions. Even a self-confessed criminal deserves fair trial. Even if the decision makers do have political bias, it shouldn't affect its judgment (at least not on paper).

I am just trying to think of a way to handle this particular situation that is fairest to all / most and is geo-politically neutral, without pre-judging the country and the rest of their athletes. That is, this way of handling should still hold water even if the country was say, Switzerland or Germany, instead of ROC. So far there has been no evidence that the other ROC athletes in the team event had failed their tests and the court's decision will need to be equitable for all clean athletes and that includes the clean ROC athletes too.

That said, no decision will ever make everybody happy anyways and my guess is Russia will cry victim no matter what.
 
Marco said:
A court shouldn't be making biased decisions. Even a self-confessed criminal deserves fair trial. Even if the decision makers do have political bias, it shouldn't affect its judgment (at least not on paper).

I am just trying to think of a way to handle this particular situation that is fairest to all / most and is geo-politically neutral, without pre-judging the country and the rest of their athletes. That is, this way of handling should still hold water even if the country was say, Switzerland or Germany, instead of ROC. So far there has been no evidence that the other ROC athletes in the team event had failed their tests and the court's decision will need to be equitable for all clean athletes and that includes the clean ROC athletes too.

That said, no decision will ever make everybody happy anyways and my guess is Russia will cry victim no matter what.
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Compete as a team, medal as a team, lose as a team. Period. End of story. They competed as a TEAM. They should, if prior precedents are followed, lose the medal. That's what is fair. If they didn't want to potentially lose the medal then they had the option of NOT competing in the Team Event.
 
thvu said:
And what exactly is wrong with that? Attitudes like yours are partly why cultures of silence that perpetuate abuse exist.

Kids shouldn’t have to put up with being hit, insulted, or put down. This whole “don’t tattle” culture is just lazy supervision, telling kids “I don’t care enough to deal with the abuse you’re suffering.” It’s wholly disgusting.
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Vagabond said:
@thvu I cannot respond on behalf of @rfisher , but as someone who experienced severe abuse at the hands of my brothers when I was very young, I must say that copying and pasting hate speech may retraumatize people who read it, even if the hate speech was not directed at those particular people.
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@On My Own I don't think it's the worst idea to grab screen shots of these comments, and posting them here as a way of archiving them. Maybe in the future we could use the
[ SPOILER ][ /SPOILER ] function with a warning about the nature of the content.
 
Why does anyone need to archive hate speech on FSU as opposed to, say, his own computer or a site about fighting hate speech?

This is a figure skating forum, and this thread, which is in GSD, not PI, is about last year's Olympic Team Event, not the ISU's YouTube channel.[/RANT]
 
Vagabond said:
Why does anyone need to archive hate speech on FSU as opposed to, say, his own computer or a site about fighting hate speech?

This is a figure skating forum, and this thread, which is in GSD, not PI, is about last year's Olympic Team Event, not the ISU's YouTube channel.[/RANT]
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Threads here almost always get off track. Right now this one is really off. See the Russian skating news thread where a few individuals go in to update on domestic events and get a flurry of people complaining about how they hate everything about Russia. They aren't watching the events and don't exactly add much substance to the thread, yet it carries on.

Of course I'm sure you know you can always put said poster on ignore if it is an extreme trigger for you, but I don't really understand why this is being highlighted when it's... mild... and I've seen nastier attempts at people trying to being 'funny' and 'witty' on FSU, for example.

I copied and pasted a much nastier comment to one of the PBP Euros threads after opening the browser on Opera and being greeted with a big live chat window in the center of the screen, and you didn't seem triggered about that? I didn't do it to trigger people; I was just :shuffle: that people actually type this stuff and other 'fans' agree. But this is where we are at with social media. No matter the post, it seems someone always has an opposing opinion and takes it up a few levels to let it be known.
 
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Karen-W said:
Compete as a team, medal as a team, lose as a team. Period. End of story. They competed as a TEAM. They should, if prior precedents are followed, lose the medal. That's what is fair. If they didn't want to potentially lose the medal then they had the option of NOT competing in the Team Event.
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Which precedent? I don't think there ever was a doping scandal at a team skating competition before (at the Olympics or WTT etc). The Olympic team skating competition is probably closer to a gymnastics team competition in format than a pairs skating competition or a swimming relay competition so I don't know which precedent CAS / ISU would like to follow the most. The 1994 Tonya incident (also domestic) and the 2000 B&S Euros incident that I cited earlier are quite different to the incident this time so I don't know if TPTB will feel compelled to follow 100%.

And does "lose the medal" mean the entire ROC team get DQed from the team competition (i.e. no result for ROC at all) or that the ROC team loses 20 points in the ladies with the others moving up one spot causing Team ROC to lose the medal (but still stays in 4th)?
 
Marco said:
Which precedent? I don't think there ever was a doping scandal at a team skating competition before (at the Olympics or WTT etc). The Olympic team skating competition is probably closer to a gymnastics team competition in format than a pairs skating competition or a swimming relay competition so I don't know which precedent CAS / ISU would like to follow the most. The 1994 Tonya incident (also domestic) and the 2000 B&S Euros incident that I cited earlier are quite different to the incident this time so I don't know if TPTB will feel compelled to follow 100%.

And does "lose the medal" mean the entire ROC team get DQed from the team competition (i.e. no result for ROC at all) or that the ROC team loses 20 points in the ladies with the others moving up one spot causing Team ROC to lose the medal (but still stays in 4th)?
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Have you deliberately chosen to ignore the many precedents set in other sports - track & field and swimming relays, gymnastics team - that others have mentioned in this very thread? It is a TEAM competition and, at the Olympics, when one team member is caught with a doping violation, every single time the entire team has been DQed and lost their medal.

Frankly, the ROC team is going to be lucky if the entire team isn't DQed and only lose Valieva's points/placement while everyone else gains a point/placement. If this was like track & field, swimming, gymnastics, equestrian, etc they would be completely DQed and the event would be as if none of them even competed at all.
 
Karen-W said:
Have you deliberately chosen to ignore the many precedents set in other sports - track & field and swimming relays, gymnastics team - that others have mentioned in this very thread? It is a TEAM competition and, at the Olympics, when one team member is caught with a doping violation, every single time the entire team has been DQed and lost their medal.

Frankly, the ROC team is going to be lucky if the entire team isn't DQed and only lose Valieva's points/placement while everyone else gains a point/placement. If this was like track & field, swimming, gymnastics, equestrian, etc they would be completely DQed and the event would be as if none of them even competed at all.
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I didn't ignore. I have said the format in the other sports is different. In a relay, you need all 4 people to finish the swin or run to complete the competition and determine placement. But in team skating, having a lady skater is not compulsory. The man, the pairs and the dance can still complete their own competition and then the total scores can be computed afterwards as a sum of the results of the separate disciplines. The only sport that I feel reference can be made to is gymnastics team, but I am not familiar with it hence my question of which predecent.

I think it is pretty much a given that KV's own Euros and Olympic individual results would be discarded if / when CAS rules against RUSADA's decision; but whether the other competitors get to move up a spot each in the final results is another question.
 
Marco said:
I didn't ignore. I have said the format in the other sports is different. In a relay, you need all 4 people to finish the swin or run to complete the competition and determine placement. But in team skating, having a lady skater is not compulsory. The man, the pairs and the dance can still complete their own competition and then the total scores can be computed afterwards as a sum of the results of the separate disciplines. The only sport that I feel reference can be made to is gymnastics team, but I am not familiar with it hence my question of which predecent.

I think it is pretty much a given that KV's own Euros and Olympic individual results would be discarded if / when CAS rules against RUSADA's decision; but whether the other competitors get to move up a spot each in the final results is another question.
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No, it's really not. That's the whole point of it being a TEAM event. It doesn't really matter that some of those are "relay" events, the point is they are all CUMULATIVE.

Let me give you an example in swimming - Let's say Michael Phelps led Team USA to gold in a relay event where the slowest US guy on the team could have not swam his leg and Team USA would have still won a medal of some color. Then, you discover that said slowest US guy had a doping violation. You don't just subtract that guy's time from the event and say "hey, Team USA, you're downgraded to bronze now." No, what happens is the entire team is DQed and they lose their medal.

Now, since the Figure Skating Team Event allows a team to only compete in three disciplines (see Germany & Ukraine 2022), it is possible that the ISU and IOC could agree that Russia doesn't have to be entirely DQed, but they would most certainly lose Valieva's points/placement and the women's segments would then be recalculated as if Russia did not field a woman in that discipline. In that scenario, not only would they lose the points but the other countries would gain an additional point in the SP and FS. It's really pretty straightforward and I'm pretty confident, with Olympic hardware on the line (and not the YOG hardware which isn't anywhere near as significant), that this is going to wind up with Russia in 4th when it's all said and done, if CAS finds that Valieva's ban should have lasted through the Olympics.
 
Karen-W said:
Now, since the Figure Skating Team Event allows a team to only compete in three disciplines (see Germany & Ukraine 2022), it is possible that the ISU and IOC could agree that Russia doesn't have to be entirely DQed, but they would most certainly lose Valieva's points/placement and the women's segments would then be recalculated as if Russia did not field a woman in that discipline. In that scenario, not only would they lose the points but the other countries would gain an additional point in the SP and FS. It's really pretty straightforward and I'm pretty confident, with Olympic hardware on the line (and not the YOG hardware which isn't anywhere near as significant), that this is going to wind up with Russia in 4th when it's all said and done, if CAS finds that Valieva's ban should have lasted through the Olympics.
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This is pretty much what I said upthread. Nevermind :)
 
MacMadame said:
If Olympic hardware wasn't on the line, they'd have awarded the team medals already. That says to me that IOC/ISU/WADA wants her disqualified and losing Nats and even Euros (if that's the outcome of an appeal) isn't enough for them.
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Precisely. And not just Valieva's medal alone, but the entire team. Whatever the end result from CAS, either the entire Russian team with Valieva will keep their medals or the entire Russian team with Valieva will lose their medals.
 
SkateGuard said:
This x 100… and I’ve got to be honest, 99% of the comments in those chats are word soup. I always turn the chats off within a minute or two of watching because it’s too much. If they can’t have a moderator to ban people making disgusting comments about skater’s weights, they should disable chats and comments on all their videos. Full stop.
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Sounds like a suggestion those fans who are experiencing, can report to ISU.
 
I'm curious - did ANYONE from Japan say anything about this? Even during the Olympics, I think it was only Kaori and Wakaba who did.
 
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