The Dance Hall 10: The Saitama Samba 2022-2023
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Why? To try something new...to branch out...to take risks...to grow.
clairecloutier
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But the growth doesn't have to be in the sultry direction.
Spikefan
Rooting for that middle-aged team
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She is very much in the Maddison Hubbell mode, what’s not to love. Now let’s hope she doesn’t make the Zach mistakes tomorrow.
TanithandBenFan
Author of the Ice and Edge Series
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Speed has never been an issue for Green/Parsons (I’ve seen them skate live a number of times and was blown away how fast they were when they teamed up), so I think this outing was tentative because of the newness of the program. I thought they were fine speed wise until they got to the midline and then slowed down considerably. I really liked their samba movements and thought they looked more authentic than a lot of other programs I’ve seen so far. The PCS and GOE were very disappointing.
I thought F-B/S’ rhumba section was fabulous but the rest was just meh.
I thought F-B/S’ rhumba section was fabulous but the rest was just meh.
skatfan
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No they don’t have to try unless you are coaching at IAM now. A lot of us think it can work very well for them.
I love how everyone has completely different opinions about the RDs we've seen so far, and it makes sense since how one feels about music, interpretation, and even choreography is so subjective and personal, especially when comparing teams with similar skill levels. But it really also proves how essential it is to have the pattern be part of the RD so there will be something a bit more objective to compare between teams (I personally also think there are many other good reasons to keep the pattern). Instead, now we have a choreographic element with no level that's worth 2 points of base value but has GOE that goes up to 7.5 points which is exactly how a team like Fear/Gibson (who I like) can get 85 in the RD while having mediocre skating skills. They took one of the worst things to happen to free dances (choreographic elements), added it to the RD, and somehow made it even worse.
yeah, there were multiple complaints about their speed in the graham program throughout the year last year. i really hoped it was for the reasons you stated here, but their speed doesn't seem to have improved in this year's rd. i like this rd more than most people here, apparently, but not more than some of the other rd's this year.
this rd is the very first program of f-b/s that i have liked and that shows off their skills, imo. i've really found them overrated in the past, but this program is definitely making me a fan! and this was f-b's best on-ice look ever. she was giving strong chock vibes!
i love h/b's rd, costumes included. it could definitely use more mileage. i just really appreciate how true they are to themselves in both their campy and dramatic program choices. from year to year, i can't remember seeing a program where i felt that they were going by other people's expectations of them, etc. their comfort in their own skin rivals that of p/c, i think.
i'm feeling very excited for tomorrow's fd's!!!
kwanfan1818
RIP D-10
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Jean-Luc Baker is a 
. That is all.
. That is all.
Kateri
void beast
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I am honestly wondering if the people who hated it were only watching her. He was AWESOME.Jean-Luc Baker is a
she doesn't get the credit she deserves, but i think a lot of it has to do with how incredible he is. she suffers by comparison in the same way papadakis did next cizeron. but both of these women are incredible skaters and performers in their own right, but what can you do when your partners are two of the best ice dancers by leaps and bounds in the last couple of olympic cycles?
litenkyckling
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I think the way they are scored is the biggest problem
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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They could bring back the pattern dance and alternate between a twizzle sequence and a one-foot step sequence every year in the RD. That would be an improvement over what we've got this season. I really want to know who's bright idea it was to remove the pattern dance from the RD.
Yes, I mostly meant in terms of scoring (though having 3 elements that are not really about pure skating isn't helping matters either). The choreographic elements are scored in a way that is completely predetermined and comes from the general ranking of the team regardless of what they put on the ice (unless there's a major error). P/C for example had some of the blandest choreographic elements and were the only team who always got +5 for them which gave them about 2 points advantage over other teams in the top 5 who often had much more impressive choreographic elements. I can often call out the GOE that a team will get based on their ranking, with the occasional mid-to-up level team getting higher GOE than usual because they have impressive or fan-favorite choreographic elements (Smart/Diaz, Fear/Gibson).
Choreographic elements in the FD can make up around 15-25% of a team's TES and that's crazy in my opinion when talking about elements with no levels that are more often than not politicly scored.
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Kateri
void beast
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Absolutely! I didn't actually intend my comment to come off as nasty to Hawayek as it turned out sounding!
Wyliefan
Ubering juniors against my will
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Oh, good point! I was just trying to remember if there was this much difference of opinion over RDs in previous years. I think you've hit on a reason for it.
skatfan
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I think adding the choreographic element to the free dance was crucial - all the programs looked too similar. It's the breath of fresh air for me. With all the other elements, it doesn't have as big an impact.
However, I agree replacing the pattern element with the choreographic one seems to be problematic. Now the RD's are just shorter free dances with a specific theme. Some teams are making hay out of it - Fear and Gibson seem to have recognized this is their chance to move up in the standings and are going for it, while others don't seem as strong.
However, set in the larger context, is how to make ice dance for a contemporary age. There are only a few styles of traditional dance that will read to the current culture - so there is a lot of experimentation going on to figure out what to do. They need to keep doing that!
Wyliefan
Ubering juniors against my will
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The top 4 RDs and FDs from French Masters have been uploaded here (along with some of the men's programs).
RoseRed
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I really liked Hawayek/Baker's RD. It's not all the there yet, and definitely needs more speed, but it's a lot of fun. It's memorable, not generic, and it suits them. And the judges responded fine, so I can't see why they'd change it.
I didn't enjoy Green/Parson's program as much. I liked the lift, but otherwise the slow section did nothing for me. The first part was better, but it still didn't work for me overall. It's not awful or anything, but I feel like they can do much better. We'll see how it develops. Also lacking speed, which I have sometimes thought about them in the past.
I wouldn't say I loved Fournier Beaudry/Sorensen's RD, but I liked it. Parts of it really worked for me and parts weren't quite there. Definitely think they can turn up the heat more, and add more moments of connection between them. It needs to develop, but the direction makes sense for them and the skating looked strong, especially for the first time out. I think they can get it where it needs to be, but as for all of these teams who are out for the first time, we'll see how the program grows.
For both the Finnish teams, I enjoyed the RDs. I don't know that either is especially memorable, but I thought they were pretty well performed and Yuka especially was fun to watch. Not sure about latin Wicked Game. The Taschler's RD continues to be a lot of fun, and is one of my favourites so far this season.
My number one favourite, like @clairecloutier is Lajoie/Lagha. It's a ridiculous music choice that totally works for me. It's so much fun, has great energy, and it very much stands out from other programs. I love it. I also find Fear/Gibson's RD very good.
Also, I'm fine with the choreo elements in the FD, but don't like it for the RD.
I didn't enjoy Green/Parson's program as much. I liked the lift, but otherwise the slow section did nothing for me. The first part was better, but it still didn't work for me overall. It's not awful or anything, but I feel like they can do much better. We'll see how it develops. Also lacking speed, which I have sometimes thought about them in the past.
I wouldn't say I loved Fournier Beaudry/Sorensen's RD, but I liked it. Parts of it really worked for me and parts weren't quite there. Definitely think they can turn up the heat more, and add more moments of connection between them. It needs to develop, but the direction makes sense for them and the skating looked strong, especially for the first time out. I think they can get it where it needs to be, but as for all of these teams who are out for the first time, we'll see how the program grows.
For both the Finnish teams, I enjoyed the RDs. I don't know that either is especially memorable, but I thought they were pretty well performed and Yuka especially was fun to watch. Not sure about latin Wicked Game. The Taschler's RD continues to be a lot of fun, and is one of my favourites so far this season.
My number one favourite, like @clairecloutier is Lajoie/Lagha. It's a ridiculous music choice that totally works for me. It's so much fun, has great energy, and it very much stands out from other programs. I love it. I also find Fear/Gibson's RD very good.
Also, I'm fine with the choreo elements in the FD, but don't like it for the RD.
I want to know too because half of the members of the Ice Dance Technical Committee changed after the Congress this summer (Gordon Poltorak, Elek and Margaglio replaced by Molina, Wolter and Weaver), so I wonder if the half remaining (Rettstatt, Selby and Ucar) was among the big cheerleaders of the removal.
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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The removal was already known, prior to the ISU Congress, though, so I don't know that they could have changed it from happening for this season. What I find rather interesting is that next season's theme hasn't been announced yet. Usually we know the following season's RD theme before the start of the current season, so I'm curious what's going on within the ID Tech Committee.
litenkyckling
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I bet it was Rettstatt and Selby - because IAM never taught patterns well and what countries are their biggest teams right now from? USA and GBR.
litenkyckling
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Maybe this is is an experimental year? I want a waltz RD SO BAD at this point so I hope they have a waltz-y theme next year.
i'm not that familiar with the taschlers, so i just watched their finlandia rd and last year's programs. they are both very skilled skaters, but is it the heavy use of crossovers in their programs or something else that makes them both appear pitched forward at the waist so much?
but i do agree that their rd is among the best of the season so far. they are both firecrackers out there!
but i do agree that their rd is among the best of the season so far. they are both firecrackers out there!
Yes, I probably didn't write clearly. I didn't mean the incoming IDTC could have reversed the decision but that if those who were behind it are still in the new IDTC, it can mean they may carry out in this way also in the near future.
Karen-W
YMCA is such a catchy tune!
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Ahhh, yes. I'm hoping and praying that the ones who are still on the IDTC were NOT the ones behind this change and that we get back to something better than what we have this season. I really do not want an entire quad of this pattern-less RD crap.
I wouldn't put it on IAM, I remember Patrice Lauzon being super vocal against the suggestion to remove patterns in the past. My bet is that it's an attempt to make the RD feel more fresh and interesting and less limiting (it fails of course).
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