Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

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nikjil

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There were plenty of posts here about how the evil American audience sat on its hands for Lobacheva/Averbukh's rock and roll FD in DC in 2003, because we all wanted Bourne/Kraatz to win.
I was at Worlds 2003. I'd routed for L&A's routine all year, it was the one and only time I ever loved a routine of theirs. On the other hand, while I loved B&K, I loathed their routine that year. Then I went to Worlds, L&&'s routine was awful in person and B&K's was great. It's always amazing how much seeing a program in person changes your perceptions.
 

nikjil

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That is sad. It never occurred to me that she wasn't getting feedback about how others saw her edges and basic skating.
I remember reading an interview with Kurt Browning where he said Surya had the most natural talent of any skater he had ever seen. He really blamed her mother for constantly changing coaches and training her in an echo chamber where she never got honest feedback or was encouraged to fix her flaws.
 

emason

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I was at Worlds 2003. I'd routed for L&A's routine all year, it was the one and only time I ever loved a routine of theirs. On the other hand, while I loved B&K, I loathed their routine that year. Then I went to Worlds, L&&'s routine was awful in person and B&K's was great. It's always amazing how much seeing a program in person changes your perceptions.
This American was at 2003 Worlds and still rooted for L & A; at least they looked like they were dancing on ice. B & K might have been as voidy as hell but not for one moment did I think they were ‘ice dancing.’ That was the moment I decided skating needed 5 disciplines, not 4. Traditional old-fashioned ice dancing can stay for those of us that love it and all the modern out there voidy programs can have their own discipline where they fight against each other. Everyone wins.
 

4rkidz

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I worked with Surya just outside Chicago in 1998/99? A seminar sponsored by rainbow ice Or something like that. She was one of the on ice coaches and I was the off ice mental strength trainer. She was very nice and the kids loved her. We chatted about her infamous back flip.
 

Kelvster

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Just to add to all of the above, I was traveling on my own to Russia back in 2002 and came across a show featuring Surya and others. At the end of the show I saw Surya in the car park and shouted something in French. She was surprised that I spoke French and we had a lovely conversation. There was just something so warm about her!!
 

AJ Skatefan

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Just to add to all of the above, I was traveling on my own to Russia back in 2002 and came across a show featuring Surya and others. At the end of the show I saw Surya in the car park and shouted something in French. She was surprised that I spoke French and we had a lovely conversation. There was just something so warm about her!!
I met Surya after a Champions on Ice show once. She was delightful! She spent lots of time talking with the fans and was super friendly.
 

Sylvia

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I’ve bumped up the Surya thread :):

Hersh tweeted this yesterday:

I was looking at the English version of RUSADA’s website and saw that ice dancer Valeria Starygina was suspended in January 2022 for 2 years — from 18.01.2022 to 17.1.2024 — for “using of the prohibited substance (art. 2.2)”: https://rusada.ru/en/disqualifications/

I haven’t found any recent competition results for her? She last competed internationally in 2012 with Ivan Volobuev (who is now coaching and an ISU technical specialist for dance): http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00012920.htm
 

Debbie S

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IOC needs to present the TE medals to USA and Japan at Worlds. Do they (or any of us) think that Russia is going to 1. Rule on Valieva, 2. Make a ruling public, and/or 3. Make any ruling that would change the results, i.e. suspend her for more than 30 days?
 

Orm Irian

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IOC needs to present the TE medals to USA and Japan at Worlds. Do they (or any of us) think that Russia is going to 1. Rule on Valieva, 2. Make a ruling public, and/or 3. Make any ruling that would change the results, i.e. suspend her for more than 30 days?
No, they should not. Valieva is entitled to due process, like every other athlete, and nobody else's desire for a medal should overrule that.
 

Debbie S

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No, they should not. Valieva is entitled to due process, like every other athlete, and nobody else's desire for a medal should overrule that.
Awarding the medals has nothing to do with Valieva's due process. The U.S. and Japan teams won medals fair and square. They should have been awarded them at the Games. At this point, the only thing that's going to change the result is if RUSADA suspends Valieva for more than 30 days and given what we know about RUSADA and the current political climate, it's highly unlikely that's going to happen, and certainly not anytime soon.

Nobody else's desire to compete despite a positive drug test or to delay adjudication should overrule basic Oly rules or the rights of the 2 teams to be treated fairly.
 

Allskate

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IOC needs to present the TE medals to USA and Japan at Worlds. Do they (or any of us) think that Russia is going to 1. Rule on Valieva, 2. Make a ruling public, and/or 3. Make any ruling that would change the results, i.e. suspend her for more than 30 days?

If the reason for the IOC not awarding the medals in Beijing was that they did not want to award Russian doping by letting them have the propaganda of having the Russians on the medal stand, then I think the team event medals should be awarded at Worlds if the American and Japanese team members want that. Not because of any ruling on Valieva or the standings, but because the Russians won't be there anyway.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love! Not LatinX!
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….then I think the team event medals should be awarded at Worlds if the American and Japanese team members want that. Not because of any ruling on Valieva or the standings, but because the Russians won't be there anyway.

What color medals to the Americans and Japanese, under that scenario - Silver for US and bronze for Japan? In that case, no anthem would be played?

Also…would K/K be flown in just to collect their bronze medals, since they’re not scheduled to represent Japan at Worlds?
 

Debbie S

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If the reason for the IOC not awarding the medals in Beijing was that they did not want to award Russian doping by letting them have the propaganda of having the Russians on the medal stand, then I think the team event medals should be awarded at Worlds if the American and Japanese team members want that. Not because of any ruling on Valieva or the standings, but because the Russians won't be there anyway.
The reason for the IOC not awarding the TE medals in Beijing was b/c they, as usual, wanted to bend over backwards for Russia. If Valieva were from a country with an anti-doping agency that functions like it should, she would have been suspended and not sent to the Olys (see Sha'Carri Richardson). The IOC likely wanted to avoid the negative publicity of giving a PED-using athlete a medal and figured they'd just kick the can down the road and hide behind RUSADA's 'investigation' and give Russia their gold medal quietly. Of course, publicly claiming they need to wait for the investigation to finalize the results (when they knew full well what would happen).

But since Russia won't be at Worlds, and it's pretty clear no 'investigation' is going to occur (the IOC basically kicked them out), there is no reason why U.S. and Japan shouldn't get their medals.
 

Allskate

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What color medals to the Americans and Japanese, under that scenario - Silver for US and bronze for Japan? In that case, no anthem would be played?
Yep. Silver and bronze. Couldn't do anything different until the Valieva issue is resolved. American team members seemed to be okay with that in Beijing. They may be okay with that at Worlds, too, especially since it probably is the last time that all those skaters will be at the same competition and the team members seem to value their relationships with each other as a team. If they would prefer to wait then that it is a different story. Somehow, I doubt that they care that there won't be an anthem for the Russians or whatever term they are going by as "punishment" for their systematic doping.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love! Not LatinX!
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Yep. Silver and bronze. Couldn't do anything different until the Valieva issue is resolved. American team members seemed to be okay with that in Beijing. They may be okay with that at Worlds, too, especially since it probably is the last time that all those skaters will be at the same competition and the team members seem to value their relationships with each other as a team. If they would prefer to wait then that it is a different story. Somehow, I doubt that they care that there won't be an anthem for the Russians or whatever term they are going by as "punishment" for their systematic doping.
Ok. Sounds like a fair plan. For the raising of flags, there would be no music…or just the Olympic hymn.
 

Sylvia

TBD
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Olympic figure skating team result may not be known until next year as Valieva drugs case threatens to drag on by Duncan Mackay (March 21):
Excerpts:
The Russian Anti-Doping Agency (RUSADA) have six months from the time they were informed of the positive test to investigate it and reach a decision.
"The International Standard for Results Management (ISRM) recommends that a first instance decision should be rendered within six months of the athlete’s first notification," a WADA spokeswoman told insidethegames.
"That would be on or around 8 August 2022 in the case of Ms. Valieva.
"More particularly and for convenience, section 4.2 of the ISRM says: In the interest of fair and effective sport justice, anti-doping rule violations should be prosecuted in a timely manner.
"Irrespective of the type of anti-doping rule violation involved, and save for cases involving complex issues or delays not in the control of the anti-doping organisation - e.g. delays attributable to the athlete or other person - anti-doping organisations should be able to conclude results management, including the hearing process at first instance, within six months from the notification."
But Anna Antseliovich, who until March 2017 was the acting general director of RUSADA, has cast doubt over whether a decision will be reached within WADA's deadline.
"All such investigations are very often delayed," Anceliovich told Russia’s official state news agency TASS.
"Especially where there are some scientific studies in support of the athlete's version.
"The World Anti-Doping Code and the All-Russian Anti-Doping Rules also provide for the possibility of submitting a case to the Court of Arbitration for Sport as the only instance.
"In this case, it is highly likely that a decision should not be expected until early August, based on the usual CAS.
"Although, of course, the parties can agree on an expedited consideration.
"But when an Olympic medal is at stake, the parties are unlikely to want to rush."
A separate investigation into Valieva's entourage, including her coach Eteri Tutberidze, has also been launched.
"The investigation by RUSADA into the athlete’s entourage is a separate matter, for which there is no specific deadline," the WADA spokeswoman said.
 

Sylvia

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Frau Muller

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What exactly do non-Russian fans want as an outcome from all of what we’ve experienced this season?

What would be just? Would it be to change all placements - not just to strip medals - for all ISU Sr and Jr events since, say, 2014? In such a case, all participation by Russians would be voided and everyone else move up to fill the vacated spots. So, for example, Ashley Wagner would become the new World Champion of 2016, Gracie moves to silver & Satoko to bronze?

In this case, just think of all of the standings and results lists that would change!
 

barbk

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What exactly do non-Russian fans want as an outcome from all of what we’ve experienced this season?

What would be just? Would it be to change all placements - not just to strip medals - for all ISU Sr and Jr events since, say, 2014? In such a case, all participation by Russians would be voided and everyone else move up to fill the vacated spots. So, for example, Ashley Wagner would become the new World Champion of 2016, Gracie moves to silver & Satoko to bronze?

In this case, just think of all of the standings and results lists that would change!
What?

So far, one skater has been found to have used a banned drug. Maybe everyone in Eteri's group is also doping, but until such time as there is evidence thereof, why would that affect events prior to December?

My guess is that Russia will paper over Kamila's drug violation with some minor 30-day suspension and try to keep the team medal.
 

Frau Muller

From Puerto Rico…With Love! Not LatinX!
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I meant -
If the alleged long-time systemic doping/harassment/manipulation/meddling, etc. ends up being proven to be correct (in all camps, not just Eteri & co.), then what would make FSUers & all non-Russian fans happy? What should the ISU do to right all of these alleged wrongs?

Just get it out there for once and for all.
 

SkateFanBerlin

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OK. Post Olympics come ISU/Federation meetings - with all the proposals for minimum ages, revisions of the judging system, etc.

I'm thinking it's time for more sweeping changes. Figure skating has never fit with ISU. I read here it was in the '80s the last time a figure skating executive was head of ISU. I propose ISU revise their charter to drop figure skating from their purview. This would allow some group of federations to form a new governing body.

The new federation would have stiff penalties for cheating/doping - particularly, where governments are involved. Russia would not be invited into this federation. It must be accepted that Russia's philosophy is win-at-any-cost. They will work around whatever federation policies are in place to carry out this philosophy. This last example, involving Valieva, proves the point. Russia doped a minor, required special handling of blood samples, and likely interfered with timely reporting. We must face facts that figure skating in the ISU is a family with a drug addict, Russia, refusing treatment.

Aside from whatever extra costs ISU incurs, the repeated undermining by a member federation has depressed athletes, fans and other compliant federations. The worlds this year were a breath of fresh air without Russia and the suspicion their participation invariably brings.

Russia is free to form it's own multi-federation governing body. There are other federations with athletes born and training in Russia. Perhaps they could be members.

Can a system of 2 federations work? There have been others sports with more than one governing body - boxing, for example. Will excluding Russia negatively impact already poor relation between it and other countries? Ignoring Russia's cheating, doping, manipulation doesn't improve it.
 
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