Unpopular Opinions

Well, I'll give her that she did deliver me from the evil of watching the overwhelming majority of ladies' figure skating the next quad and this one.
 
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bardtoob said:
Actually, it is over two days and, in the distant past, three.

I really don't think Sotnikova delivered with skating the PCS she received.
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That’s fine what you think, I just expressed my unpopular opinion. And another unpopular opinion is that I don’t think Yuna would be getting the marks she was getting if she had a different coach. I felt it was a lot about politics, rather than her actual skating (and I mean her marks generally, not just at the Olympics.)
 
hanca said:
And another unpopular opinion is that I don’t think Yuna would be getting the marks she was getting if she had a different coach.
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Yeah, Kim would have probably gotten higher marks if she had been coached in 2014 by Orser instead of Shin Hea-sook and Ryu Jong-hyun.

On the other hand, Sotnikova felt comfortable hugging a judge that scored her in the LP on TV during the competition broadcast, so I don't know how that could be outdone.
 
It's pretty clear when you actually watch the videos back in the day that Kim had excellent skating skills and speed (she sailed across the ice), and her jumps, when she was on, were huge, covered distance, took off from the correct edges, and she had excellent landing positions and glide out of the jumps. In 2010, she kind of was a in a league of her own as other skaters couldn't match her BV or they had serious deficiencies that cost them in BV and GOE.

By 2014- she was more vulnerable although 2013 Worlds showed she was still commanding since the ladies competition, despite some bright spots, wasn't the strongest. Remember how Caro won 2012 Worlds with a beautiful but technically limited LP, and the less said about 2011 Worlds the better. In 2014, the ladies got better. Caro skated probably the most technically proficient LP she ever did and completed 7 triples with a clean SP. Sotnikova had a clean but overscored SP with a 3Toe/3Toe and muscled her way into rotating 7 triples in the LP with a stumble but with vigor and energy (hand wave!). Sochi certainly was not 2013 Worlds. Kim's spins that used to garner high GOEs in 2010 weren't as good anymore compared to the competition. No doubt the Russians, including Sotnikova were better spinners. It's questionable whether Sotnikova deserved a level 4 on her footwork and her GOEs went through the roof in a way that we never saw before, but it is what it is.
 
bardtoob said:
Yeah, Kim would have probably gotten higher marks if she had been coached in 2014 by Orser instead of Shin Hea-sook and Ryu Jong-hyun.

On the other hand, Sotnikova felt comfortable hugging a judge that scored her on TV during the broadcast, so I don't know how that could be outdone.
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My second unpopular opinion was about Kim’s marks generally, not at the 2014 Olympics. I thought the post makes it quite clear!

There was a period when Kim could go the the centre of the rink, skate a half of the program, then give up and they would still find enough points to make her win. She could have send them recording of her programs and they could send her the medal by post. Waste of money on pretended competition. Gold medal was just taken the moment she signed up for the competition, before the competition even started.
 
hanca said:
There was a period when Kim could go the the centre of the rink, skate a half of the program, then give up and they would still find enough points to make her win. She could have send them recording of her programs and they could send her the medal by post. Waste of money on pretended competition. Gold medal was just taken the moment she signed up for the competition, before the competition even started.
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Are you sure you're not confusing her with Patrick Chan?
 
bardtoob said:
Are you sure you're not confusing her with Patrick Chan?
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Seriously, that's a weird retelling of history. I don't remember Kim ever winning with an incomplete program. In fact, out of seven senior seasons, she's only had one where she was undefeated, and that was 2012-2013 where she competed internationally twice - NRW and Worlds. Hell, she during her 2009-2010 Olympic year, she won Skate America with a whopping LP score of 111.70. There's no way any other skater could have beaten that score!
 
VGThuy said:
Seriously, that's a weird retelling of history. I don't remember Kim ever winning with an incomplete program. In fact, out of seven senior seasons, she's only had one where she was undefeated, and that was 2012-2013 where she competed internationally twice - NRW and Worlds. Hell, she during her 2009-2010 Olympic year, she won Skate America with a whopping LP score of 111.70. There's no way no other skater could have beaten that score!
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I never said she did that. I said that she easily could afford to do that, because the judges were so determined for her to win that they would have found there enough points for her to win. One of the jokes among my friends was that she could take her starting position, then do a few crossovers to another spot on the ice where she would do her ending position and yet she would win anyway, even without the elements.
 
Except that she collected a few losses in her career, even with Orser. Don't forget she left Orser after the 2010 Olympic season and had 2012-2013 season without him - her only season where she was undefeated though she only competed internationally twice that season compared to other seasons where she competed internationally 5-7 times.

ETA: Actually, now that you brought up skaters winning with missing elements - you know who did win Worlds with one missing element? Mao Asada at 2008 Worlds when she wiped out on the entrance of her 3Axel attempt and received no score for that jumping pass. This isn't a knock on Mao or anything (because I believe the judges started becoming stingy with her), but just stating a time when it happened.
 
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VGThuy said:
Except that she collected a few losses in her career, even with Orser. Don't forget she left Orser after the 2010 Olympic season and had 2012-2013 season without him - her only season where she was undefeated though she only competed internationally twice that season compared to other seasons where she competed internationally 5-7 times.

ETA: Actually, now that you brought up skaters winning with missing elements - you know who did win Worlds with one missing element? Mao Asada at 2008 Worlds when she wiped out on the entrance of her 3Axel attempt and received no score for that jumping pass. This isn't a knock on Mao or anything (because I believe the judges started becoming stingy with her), but just stating a time when it happened.
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You don’t have to try to persuade me. It is my unpopular opinion that she has been severely overscored, and I don’t really care whether you or anyone else agree or not. This is the unpopular opinions thread, so you may have to accept that some people have a different opinion that you don’t like.
 
hanca said:
I think Chan was the equivalent of Yuna in men category.
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What is the equivalent of Russia in the doping category? :)
hanca said:
This is the unpopular opinions thread, so you may have to accept that some people have a different opinion that you don’t like.
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Oh? So the reason you came in and started saying Yuna didn't deliver was what exactly? A respect for other people's opinions? Maybe should have left it there and "accepted".
 
hanca said:
I think Chan was the equivalent of Yuna in men category.
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At that time Patrick was bewitched by Madame Dance Lady into arresting his technical development before fully proving himself while Yuna was already a realized Olympic Champion.
 
Here's my unpopular opinion. I think Sotnikova deserved the 2014 Olympic Gold medal. I felt that Carolina Kostner skated like she didn't want to lose a medal and that Yuna Kim didn't care if she was there. I felt that Adelina Sotniokova skated like she wanted that gold medal more than anything.
 
Dai's Blues for Klook said:
What is the equivalent of Russia in the doping category? :)

Oh? So the reason you came in and started saying Yuna didn't deliver was what exactly? A respect for other people's opinions? Maybe should have left it there and "accepted".
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I expressed my opinions. I didn’t try to persuade anyone.
 
hanca said:
I am not being nitpicky. Yuna have been marked for her 2A very close to what others have been getting for triple jumps, which meant that she could get away not having seven triples in her FS for quite a while. And suddenly, during the competition which was the most important for her, it would actually be handy to have seven triples…
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In 2010 the rules were to her favour because she was allowed to do 3 2axels and gathered massive GOEs on triples. In 2014, the GOEs were lower and she was no longer allowed to do 3 2axels. And she didn't / couldn't bring herself to do the Biellmann for a level 4 layback in the short. The second lutz was shaky instead of glorious like in 2010. All these BV and GOE differences accumulated and well, made a difference.

TBH, in 2014, Yuna was nowhere near as sharp and surefooted than she was in 2010, and her programs were not as detailed or highlighted her strength as much. The PCS differentials between her and Adelina were understandable and not unreasonable to me, even if I might not fully agree and would instead have them slightly further apart.
 
VGThuy said:
ETA: Actually, now that you brought up skaters winning with missing elements - you know who did win Worlds with one missing element? Mao Asada at 2008 Worlds when she wiped out on the entrance of her 3Axel attempt and received no score for that jumping pass. This isn't a knock on Mao or anything (because I believe the judges started becoming stingy with her), but just stating a time when it happened.
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Actually Yuna won 2009 Worlds with an invalid spin and 2009 SA after skipping the flip pass altogether.
 
Marco said:
Actually Yuna won 2009 Worlds with an invalid spin and 2009 SA after skipping the flip pass altogether.
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Oh that’s true. The ladies in general were prone to all sorts of mistakes. Remember when Kostner had a spin invalidated because the wind-up wasn’t allowed then the ISU changed the rules. Anyway, I remember 2009 Skate America because I remember how low she scored and being amazed no other skater skated better than her when the judges pretty much opened the door for anyone to beat that 111+ score.
 
Not sure if this is an unpopular opinion: the Olympics need to be canceled. It's not just the p*ndemic that's causing all kinds of problems, but the location too. It's becoming ridiculously expensive to put on every four years.
 
Lemonade20 said:
Not sure if this is an unpopular opinion: the Olympics need to be canceled. It's not just the p*ndemic that's causing all kinds of problems, but the location too. It's becoming ridiculously expensive to put on every four years.
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Yep, unpopular for sure. I think the location should have been changed (at least a year ago) given where this whole p****c started. It's a status thing for a country to host the Olympics and during normal years when attendance is maxed out, it's an economic boost for the location. It does seem strange that at the Olympics, athletes are basically competing against the same people they compete against in other competitions (Worlds, for Figure Skating).
 
Lemonade20 said:
Not sure if this is an unpopular opinion: the Olympics need to be canceled. It's not just the p*ndemic that's causing all kinds of problems, but the location too. It's becoming ridiculously expensive to put on every four years.
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I agree, esp. after seeing and hearing about how messed up some locales became after the Olympics, the abandoned buildings and structures, damage to the environment, etc.
 
DreamSkates said:
This is an unpopular opinion thread. If you don't agree, then disagree and let it go.
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Not to mention the cosntant unnecessary xenophobic digs at Russia/ Russia ( n )skaters... like what does that poster's personal dislike of Russia have to do with hanca's opinion on Yuna being the female Patrick Chan?
 
@muffinplus @DreamSkates

1. If it's an unpopular opinion thread, and we are supposed to leave "unpopular" opinions as they are, then there shouldn't be any discussion about anyone's opinions, as has been the case throughout the thread. And in general, opinion boards shouldn't exist with reply features, then, because what's the actual point of them? It's the same question I posed to Hanca. You yourself feel free to discuss "unpopular" "opinions", so nothing's stopping me.

2. My opinion on Russian sports being considered "xenophobia" is hilarious. It's fact that there is a state doping program. Facts aren't "phobias", much like if I said Russia is going after Ukraine currently it's not "xenophobia" either. Feel free to think otherwise, it won't turn what I said into "xenophobia".

3. In my opinion the people who tend to dismiss Yuna's skating as just randomly not having delivered on the night, "didn't want to be there" (yeah, I wonder why), or randomly saying she was overscored throughout her career therefore it must have been a "shock" to be scored "fairly", or there were "jokes" in their rink about her scores and skating - tend to come from a racist and xenophobic perspective themselves. And, no, I don't have to check my tone when I see that load of crap. It's also frankly illogical, or lacking in reason. Even if she didn't deliver "on the night"/"day"/"afternoon"/whatever, it still doesn't mean Sotnikova was better.

4. My opinion on Russian figure skaters can easily fit the "opinion" part of the thread. That they can barely skate, and need to cheat and game the system to "win", and people with a pair of functioning eyes can see it, and those who care less than zero about the actual sport can only make "jokes" about the others.
 
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Dai's Blues for Klook said:
2. My opinion on Russian sports being considered "xenophobia" is hilarious. It's fact that there is a state doping program. Facts aren't "phobias", much like if I said Russia is going after Ukraine currently it's not "xenophobia" either. Feel free to think otherwise, it won't turn what I said into "xenophobia".
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Nobody is saying there is not a Russian doping state program but

a) saying "Russians are doping and can't skate" literally has nothing to do with this thread or specifically hanca's opinion on Yuna Kim's scoring so it's beyond irrelevant - why are you making this retort in your responses to her?

b) and, yes, in this context it's xenophobic because the doping does not even have anything to do with Russian skaters and nobody(unless you have some proof or evidence? or are you just being nasty?) and you are just making nasty comments (Russian skaters can "barely" skate - hilarious) for the purpose of making nasty comments about Russian skaters... again she didn't say a thing about Russian skaters, but you did. So, yes, it's clearly xenophobic... you aren't even hiding it. But back to ignore.
 
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