The Dance Hall 9: Bring the Bling or No Beijing 2021-2022

[topaz]

first she took pairs, now she is messing with ice dance, now it's personal

LOL, I hear ya. I have faith that their are three teams that are better than D/S that will overshadow Diana Davis and partner. One of them has a daddy as coach who is going to fight like HELL to make sure HIS daughter is not left out. This season alone, Annabelle and Andrei Bagin(you can't just call him a partner after this season so far) are REALLY IMPROVED this season. The other team is S/A and the Krylova's junior team. Krylova's team have the IT factor and it's obvious to EVERYONE.

Well, she is trying to take pairs. Jury's out still on whether or not she can fix whatever's wrong with TarMor.

T/M's issue is her jumps and her confidence going into those jumps. There other skills and elements are the best in the world, imo. Also, I think Maxim has had more to do with them than Eteri.

 

[muffinplus]

hands up if she is actively lessening your enjoyment of the sport more and more every single season ?‍

I mean not really.. I enjoy her singles skaters …however I am not here for her daughter pushed as a top ice dancer

 

[Khaleesi]

Me waking up and getting caught up on ice dance and seeing Davis/Smolkin are not only in first but scored an 81.30 at Warsaw Cup https://c.tenor.com/0xS2_N44ZLwAAAAd/disappointed-laugh.gif. What the hell is going on?

 

[Andrea82]

Compared to Cup of Austria's RD:

Diana Davis / Gleb Smolkin +7.93
Molly Lanaghan / Dmitre Razgulajevs +6.58
Lara Luft / Maximilian Pfisterer -0.51
Aleksandra Samersova / Kevin Ojala +7.9

Has the panel forgot last week's score for L/P and to apply the overscoring pattern to them? Or did L/P kill the cats of some judges?

 

[sap5]

Obviously this is a question that bears analysis.

However, I think there is often not as much variance in scoring across events as we might think. (Just as one example, Hawayek/Baker last year received virtually the same PCS in the free dance at WTT as they did at Worlds, it was just .02 apart.)

But here's a quick look at what several teams have scored for their rhythm dances across several competitions this year:

In their 3 competitions so far, Hubbell/Donohue have scored in the rhythm dance: 84.06, 83.58, 84.79

Chock/Bates: 83.72, 82.55, 86.02

Papadakis/Cizeron: 85.58, 87.45, 89.08

Green/Parsons: 65.78, 73.93, 72.40, 75.60, 75.35

Smart/Diaz: 75.20, 74.06, 76.97

Hurtado/Khaliavan: 72.65, 74.79, 76.40

These seem like huge differences to me. A difference of one point is huge in ice dance.

 

[irenemulindwairen]

I really hope that K/A who are coached by Krylova rise to the top and succeed amidst all this mess

 

[love_skate2011]

I think a lot of the frustration comes from the fact that D/S are simply not the most talented in a field with a lot of junior talent - Russia have a multitude of junior world medalists with amazing talent but they choose to push these two instead? I don't even think they're packaged all that well.

Tell me any other new seniors in Russia that tick all the boxes ?

Smolkin is tall like Evan Bates and can do many lift variations with Davis (We dont complain about Bates), they have decent edges
They are kinda choppy when they skate but that can we worked out.

They are coached by Igor, Sure Diana gets reputation for being Eteris daughter but saying Eteri has control and influence among the judges is farfetched. lol

again, name me any other former russian juniors that have had a successful senior transition, Spotsova / Alyeshin - Kustarovas students are going nowhere after many seasons now, Svinin students Shaanaeva/Nazhrny, Sevchenko/Eremenko never do well except aging S/B. Anabelle Morozov has the misfortune of having a weak and unappealing partner.

among the current juniors, Krylovas team Kaganovskaya / Angelopol, he has a height deficit, then there is Khavronina / Cirisano, she is very good , deep knee bend, edges, great posture, looks like Angelica Krylova but again the guy has a deficit, he is short and skates with narrow edges.

All in all, I dont see anyone coming close near what D/S have under Igor. Krylova's team K/G maybe once they turn senior, but Kaganovskaya is 16 - 3 inches more growth and they are done !

 

[love_skate2011]

I really hope that K/A who are coached by Krylova rise to the top and succeed amidst all this mess

This was their recent competition a few days ago, sure they won but look at their height difference
Angelopol is maybe as short as Jean Luc Baker or Michael Parson.

Golden rule in Pairs and Ice Dance: No height difference you will never go anywhere.

Василиса Кагановская - Валерий Ангелопол. Произвольный танец. Юниоры. Пермь. Кубок России 2021

Василиса Кагановская и Валерий Ангелопол обновили свой личный рекорд за исполнение произвольного танца, получив от судей 108,18 балла, и завоевали серебряные...

www.youtube.com

 

[litenkyckling]

Tell me any other new seniors in Russia that tick all the boxes ?

Smolkin is tall like Evan Bates and can do many lift variations with Davis (We dont complain about Bates), they have decent edges
They are kinda choppy when they skate but that can we worked out.

They are coached by Igor, Sure Diana gets reputation for being Eteris daughter but saying Eteri has control and influence among the judges is farfetched. lol

again, name me any other former russian juniors that have had a successful senior transition, Spotsova / Alyeshin - Kustarovas students are going nowhere after many seasons now, Svinin students Shaanaeva/Nazhrny, Sevchenko/Eremenko never do well except aging S/B.

among the current juniors, Krylovas team Kaganovskaya / Angelopol, he has a height deficit, then there is Khavronina / Cirisano, she is very good , deep knee bend, edges, great posture, looks like Krylova but again the guy has a deficit, short and narrow edges.

All in all, I dont see anyone coming close near what D/S have under Igor. Krylova's team K/G maybe once they turn senior, but Kaganovskaya is 16 - 3 inches more growth and they are done !

1. I literally do complain about Evan Bates and Madi Chock's height difference.
2. They don't have amazing edges though, and this is an amazing score.
3. Not that farfetched, this is the most political sport out there. Igor also has huge sway with the judges - this isn't news to anyone.
4. All of the teams you listed have more raw talent. Whichever one of these other teams Zhulin chooses as his next project post-S/K will deservedly go above D/S.

 

[Wyliefan]

And clearly Baker and Parsons have never gone anywhere.

 

[love_skate2011]

And clearly Baker and Parsons have never gone anywhere.

Baker and Parson are stuck in middle of the pack, short men dont go anywhere above that.

the same will happen to short Angelopol, theyll be lucky their partnership survive if Kaganovskaya age 16, grows 3 inches more.

Nobody likes short men, nobody.
This is a golden rule in pairs and ice dance - Height Difference.

 

[VGThuy]

Baker and Parson are stuck in middle of the pack, short men dont go anywhere above that.

the same will happen to short Angelopol, theyll be lucky their partnership survive if Kaganovskaya age 16, grows 3 inches more.

Nobody likes short men, nobody.
This is a golden rule in pairs and ice dance - Height Difference.

Charlie White and Scott Moir didn't have amazing height differences with their partners and yet they both have OGM. What about the British team of Coomes/Buckland? There was a huge height difference there and they tended to place "middle of the pack" or late or just outside of the top ten.

Regarding "nobody likes short men, nobody"...didn't they teach you in school to never speak your opinions in absolutes?

 

[Karen-W]

Charlie White and Scott Moir didn't have amazing height differences with their partners and yet they both have OGM. What about the British team of Coomes/Buckland? There was a huge height difference there and they tended to place "middle of the pack" or late or just outside of the top ten.

Regarding "nobody likes short men, nobody"...didn't they teach you in school to never speak your opinions in absolutes?

Look at Komatsubara/Koleto - huge height difference and one thing we routinely complain about is how he seems to hunch over a lot. A massive height difference is not some massive advantage in dance.

 

[aka_gerbil]

T/M's issue is her jumps and her confidence going into those jumps. There other skills and elements are the best in the world, imo. Also, I think Maxim has had more to do with them than Eteri.

It’s not a technique issue with Evgenia’s jumps. She can do one gorgeous, text-book perfect after another in practice. It’s headcase issues.

 

[love_skate2011]

Charlie White and Scott Moir didn't have amazing height differences with their partners and yet they both have OGM. What about the British team of Coomes/Buckland? There was a huge height difference there and they tended to place "middle of the pack" or late or just outside of the top ten.

Regarding "nobody likes short men, nobody"...didn't they teach you in school to never speak your opinions in absolutes?

Chock/Bates, Hubbell/Donohue, Sinitsina/Katsalapov, Papadakis/Cizeron all have enough height difference.

Ice Dance is the most aesthetic based amongst the skating discipline, they rely on PCS, Levels only since there are no jumps.
Why cant D/S rise up when again, they tick all the boxes ?

With these ticked boxes, on paper they have more to grow than than Green / Parson, Carreira/ Ponomarenko, Hawayek / Baker.
Guess what these 3 men lack ? YES You got it !

 

[love_skate2011]

Look at Komatsubara/Koleto - huge height difference and one thing we routinely complain about is how he seems to hunch over a lot. A massive height difference is not some massive advantage in dance.

maybe not always but its an advantage, you dont need to be very tall like a pairs guy but decent height difference in dance is still needed. Look at how short men but talented Ponomarenko, Baker are stuck in the middle of the pack for years now.

 

[Karen-W]

maybe not always but its an advantage, you dont need to be very tall like a pairs guy but decent height difference in dance is still needed. Look at how short men but talented Ponomarenko, Baker are stuck in the middle of the pack for years now.

Ponomarenko's problems might be in his suspect twizzles and in the lack of personality or identity beyond "vanilla" from CarPon as a team.

 

[VGThuy]

Before his personal issues, there was one quite beloved short male ice dancer. He was a two-time world champion, a world silver and a world bronze medalist. He even won the porny award.

 

[topaz]

They are coached by Igor, Sure Diana gets reputation for being Eteris daughter but saying Eteri has control and influence among the judges is farfetched. lol

Igor's political power internationally is not what it use to be.

This was their recent competition a few days ago, sure they won but look at their height difference
Angelopol is maybe as short as Jean Luc Baker or Michael Parson.

Golden rule in Pairs and Ice Dance: No height difference you will never go anywhere.

Василиса Кагановская - Валерий Ангелопол. Произвольный танец. Юниоры. Пермь. Кубок России 2021

Василиса Кагановская и Валерий Ангелопол обновили свой личный рекорд за исполнение произвольного танца, получив от судей 108,18 балла, и завоевали серебряные...

www.youtube.com

There is a 2 time world champion(4 medals total) and 3 time European medalist by the name of Maxim Stavinski. Did not stop him nor his partner from being champions. Even though, their height issue was talked about consistently when they skated. Denkova/Stavinski are maybe my favorite ice dance team of all time(P/C and D/S).
Also Fear/Gibson do not have a large height distance, but no one can deny their lifts and spins are some of the best we've seen in Ice Dance in a long time.

 

[firstflight]

If I declared there to be a rule, but there are multiple exceptions in both directions that people are pointing out to me that cannot be disregarded because Olympic and World Championship placements are historical facts, not opinions, I personally wouldn’t continue to insist this is actually a rule. But that’s just me.

 

[mjb52]

How hard is the Midnight Blues as required patterns go? I remember the Finnstep was supposed to be one of the more difficult ones (I think). How does the MB compare?

 

[VGThuy]

How hard is the Midnight Blues as required patterns go? I remember the Finnstep was supposed to one of the more difficult ones (I think). How does the MB compare?

It would probably be even harder if they made the teams do the whole pattern. But we’ve seen callers be strict with even the “simple” ones like the Rhumba. At 2012 Worlds, I think only Tessa/Scott got a level 4 for it.

 

[Cayuse]

Igor's political power internationally is not what it use to be.

Never underestimate Igor! He's on the warpath to prove himself now that Chock and Bates left him and Car-Pon left him. Davis and Smolkin are the top team in his stable now which means he is putting in lots of time with them. Yes, he recycles programs and music far too much, but he knows the technical stuff. We really need to wait for a head to head event before we declare them Russia #2,3, 4 or lower.

 

[Bigbird]

S/B have regressed. Stepanova is noticably regressing, not sure if it is lack of motivation or injury or both. They literally crawl across the ice. The judges simply have lost interest in the posing and the figure no matter how gorgeous, they need more than a barbie doll. D/S will overtake them if they haven't already.

 

[cocotaffy]

I just watched Davis/Smolkin to understand what all the fuss is about and well I don't. That score is just nuts for what they put out there. They have qualities but still need some time to mature and gain in speed and power.

 

[angi]

S/B have regressed. Stepanova is noticably regressing, not sure if it is lack of motivation or injury or both. They literally crawl across the ice. The judges simply have lost interest in the posing and the figure no matter how gorgeous, they need more than a barbie doll. D/S will overtake them if they haven't already.

Stepanova/Bukin lost a lot of training time due to her injury and it's clearly affecting their speed and their technical abilities. Overall the GOE they got weren't bad here, but the levels absolutely killed them, a team at their level can't get level 1 for the midline and the pattern, and level 2 for the partial steps - that alone cost them over 2 points in BV.

I'm alarmed by Davis/Smolkin scores this season like the rest, but putting it into perspective the panel at Warsaw Cup was very very lenient when it came to calling levels and the GOE they got for the pattern and the partial steps (and the rest) are something that no panel in a major event in their right mind will give them, in comparison their GOE here were higher than what top 5 teams at worlds are getting.
It reminds me to a lesser extent what happened to Narazova/Nikitin, at the Denis Ten Memorial event they got strong levels and GOE only to watch their score drop by over 23 points in a GP event. D/S won't see that kind of drop but I doubt they'll see that score in an international event soo.
That being said, I do think D/S will be 3rd at Russian Nationals and get to go to Europeans at the very least. Then it will be interesting to see how they'll be scored.

 

[irenemulindwairen]

S/B have regressed. Stepanova is noticably regressing, not sure if it is lack of motivation or injury or both. They literally crawl across the ice. The judges simply have lost interest in the posing and the figure no matter how gorgeous, they need more than a barbie doll. D/S will overtake them if they haven't already.

????????

 

[Peepsquick]

It was heartwarming to see the interaction between P/C and S/B: Gabi gave them a thumb up as they swapped places at the end of the RD. These 4 have known each other for a long time and it is cool to see the camaraderie!

 

[firstflight]

I think more interesting than S/B’s score here in the RD is Piper and Paul’s score, which of course is not what they wanted to see. Aside from the +1’s for their twizzle sequence, the GOE scores were just lower overall. At Skate Canada, all GOEs were +3 or above, with lots of +4’s. Here, they received almost as many +2’s (given in four out of the five elements) as +4’s.

 

[barbarafan]

I partly blame S/B coaches. They have been coaching for all these years ( infact long before IAM became internationally well established) and surely they should've grasped the COP system by now. They are failing their students which is sad S/B deserve better.

or maybe they should choose a Tessa/Scott olympic winning routine and copy it step by step, lift by lift and still get top choreo. marks when neither them, their coach or choreog. had anything to do with it......I think when routines r copied to that extent they should get a 2 or 3 in PCS for the program.