The Dance Hall 9: Bring the Bling or No Beijing 2021-2022

[sap5]

Hard to know - we do seem to hear about more concussions at that training camp - that could have something to do with more ambitious lifts, or do they just talk about the issue more than other training camps - number of high level skaters probably plays a role there as well.

I don’t think it’s the lifts, because I think Canton back in the day had more ambitious lifts than I’ve seen coming out of Gadbois. As for more talk— when teams are out for long periods of time, like H/B, or Chock/Bates, or P/C, it’s hard not to talk about why they are out.

 

[deegee]

I don’t think it’s the lifts, because I think Canton back in the day had more ambitious lifts than I’ve seen coming out of Gadbois. As for more talk— when teams are out for long periods of time, like H/B, or Chock/Bates, or P/C, it’s hard not to talk about why they are out.

i think concussions are also taken more seriously now than during canton's heyday. and it sounds like dubreil is pretty insistent with her skaters that they take proper precautions bc of her experience with concussion.

 

[clairecloutier]

There are top-and-bottom film clips here showing snippets of Green/Parsons and Papadakis/Cizeron RDs.

https://twitter.com/mariannesmahler/status/1456816021462003714

Kind of interesting to see two teams shown together like this.

 

[On My Own]

I don't think I understand the Parsons hype. Agree with whoever said that Baker is a much better performer than him.

For me, the programs this season have been very disappointing... Only one RD and maybe one FD really stand out for me.

 

[marbri]

From an old article about with Dubreuil about Gabby's concussion:

Marie-France Dubreuil: “Gabriella and Guillaume have the talent, but they also have the innocence”

This is the story of “G and G”, Gabriella and Guillaume, as told by Marie-France. From the moment they arrived in Montreal, for choreography, in June 2014, to present times, in Ostrava, at Europeans. It is a history in layers, you’ll see that for yourselves: season after season, challenge after chal

www.insideskating.net

Well, it was a different situation, and it was a little bit… hard to see, because when it happened it was the end of August, at a time where there was not the right time [to happen]… But I’ve myself had a couple of concussions and I know the effect and the aftermath of not taking care of that. So for me them being really young and Olympics being two years away, our priority was getting her healed. And make sure that she had no more leftovers of the concussion before we started to skate again. Because it wasn’t worth it, it’s not worth it.

Sounds like the timing could be similar with Hawayek. And Dubreuil wants them to heal before skating again.

 

[PRlady]

Concussions can literally ruin the rest of your life significantly. It's not like a bum ankle that's going to ache in old age. Whatever they need to do for her to heal is worth it even in an Oly year but I would bet with the hype G/P are getting, they're nervous to get out there.

 

[skatingguy]

I don’t think it’s the lifts, because I think Canton back in the day had more ambitious lifts than I’ve seen coming out of Gadbois. As for more talk— when teams are out for long periods of time, like H/B, or Chock/Bates, or P/C, it’s hard not to talk about why they are out.

I can't believe I forgot about the concussion that Dubreuil herself had during the filming of Battle of the Blades a number of year ago. I've heard her talk about getting back on the ice too soon in interviews, and I wouldn't be surprised if this has impacted the way that Gadbois deals with a similar issue with their students. Gadbois seems to be much more open about injuries then Canton ever was - thinking of Tessa Virtue's compartment syndrome, and how much secrecy there was surrounding that issue in 2010.

 

[Enchanted]

There are top-and-bottom film clips here showing snippets of Green/Parsons and Papadakis/Cizeron RDs.

https://twitter.com/mariannesmahler/status/1456816021462003714

Kind of interesting to see two teams shown together like this.

The camera angles can affect quite a bit for these videos. I wouldn’t make any conclusions based on them.

 

[VGThuy]

Was the Skate Canada rink NHL-sized while the GP Italia Olympic sized as well? That would make a difference. Also, G/Parsons started their steps a bit further to the left while Pap/Ciz started theirs nearer the middle.

 

[clairecloutier]

BTW I didn't really mean to compare them, I just think it's interesting seeing 2 teams like this, as it is not a view that we get too often.

 

[sap5]

The camera angles can affect quite a bit for these videos. I wouldn’t make any conclusions based on them.

My first thought was that these clips make both teams look awful.

 

[litenkyckling]

The camera angles can affect quite a bit for these videos. I wouldn’t make any conclusions based on them.

Was the Skate Canada rink NHL-sized while the GP Italia Olympic sized as well? That would make a difference. Also, G/Parsons started their steps a bit further to the left while Pap/Ciz started theirs nearer the middle.

I think this comparison here is likley due to the fact that until GP Italy, P/C were doing the "regular" midnight blues, with no variations. But here, they have done the same variations that Gr/P have been performing since August. Not really anything to do with rink size or camera angles.

The only other teams that are doing very obvious variations are F-B/S (when she ducks under his leg) and H/D (she moves behind him after the first KP). C/B are doing some very slight variations in hold, but nothing too stand out.

 

[VGThuy]

My first thought was that these clips make both teams look awful.

I was thinking both looked sort of rough there too (but Guillaume had totally fab moments where his edge was deep and his body position was statuesque and where he moved well from step to step for the most part), but I give all teams leeway at the moment, and even though the full midnight blues step would have been much more of a challenge to get right, even doing the first 15 or whatever steps shows just how much goes into that dance in terms of steps and switching holds, etc. I think it's easy to forget how complex and hard that pattern is in the moment because usually the midnight step takes place in the most boring part of the RD and it usually doesn't go with the rest of the dance.

ETA:

I think this comparison here is likley due to the fact that until GP Italy, P/C were doing the "regular" midnight blues, with no variations. But here, they have done the same variations that Gr/P have been performing since August. Not really anything to do with rink size or camera angles.

The only other teams that are doing very obvious variations are F-B/S (when she ducks under his leg) and H/D (she moves behind him after the first KP). C/B are doing some very slight variations in hold, but nothing too stand out.

Oh! I get it! So you're saying P/C are accused of plagiarism? Do the variations have anything to do with hold and body position? I'm going to do a marathon watch of the midnight blues tonight to really get familiar. I haven't watched it since the 2016-17 season where I was painstakingly watching the top 6 teams.

 

[litenkyckling]

I was thinking both looked sort of rough there too (but Guillaume had totally fab moments where his edge was deep and his body position was statuesque and where he moved well from step to step for the most part), but I give all teams leeway at the moment, and even though the full midnight blues step would have been much more of a challenge to get right, even doing the first 15 or whatever steps shows just how much goes into that dance in terms of steps and switching holds, etc. I think it's easy to forget how complex and hard that pattern is in the moment because usually the midnight step takes place in the most boring part of the RD and it usually doesn't go with the rest of the dance.

ETA:


Oh! I get it! So you're saying P/C are accused of plagiarism? Do the variations have anything to do with hold and body position? I'm going to do a marathon watch of the midnight blues tonight to really get familiar. I haven't watched it since the 2016-17 season where I was painstakingly watching the top 6 teams.

I'm not sure, but I guess its an easy comparison to make in a graphic like this as they are doing the exact same moves. The variations are to do with both hold and bosy position (except the steps, obviously) - I remember watching Lake Placid and feeling confused at first whether Gr/P would even get recognition for it, but if the steps are the same it counts (I think).

 

[Gris]

I thought P/C adopted this variation so they can have a free arm to incorporate the waacking moves. However I don't think this variation looks good on either team. And F-B/S' variation looks even worse. Maybe everyone should just do the standard pattern.

 

[VGThuy]

I'm not sure, but I guess its an easy comparison to make in a graphic like this as they are doing the exact same moves. The variations are to do with both hold and bosy position (except the steps, obviously) - I remember watching Lake Placid and feeling confused at first whether Gr/P would even get recognition for it, but if the steps are the same it counts (I think).

Just watching a bunch of videos of the RD - midnight step section - I totally get what they're saying now. Most teams are doing the classic, face-to-face hold with little changes in hold until the turn into a side-by-side before the second half of their midnight blues step, but Green/Parsons have a lot of changes of hold, a lot of back-to-back variations, and etc. that adds complexity to the step. Seeing their variations and then seeing Papadakis/Cizeron adopting those same holds in that comparison video, the plagiarism can be seen as pretty egregious. Hubbell/Donohue have a variation as well, but theirs is simpler but totally them (they stay face-to-face for the most part, but their arms look like they're about to arm wrestle for lack of a better description).

 

[Peepsquick]

I thought P/C adopted this variation so they can have a free arm to incorporate the waacking moves. However I don't think this variation looks good on either team. And F-B/S' variation looks even worse. Maybe everyone should just do the standard pattern.

I do think that it is linked to the adjustment to the new music and a more intricate linking through hand holds and arm movements. Plagiarism? Doesn't sound like P/C ... . Has this feature never been done before Green and Parson? If no, I am at a loss ...

 

[Bigbird]

I do think that it is linked to the adjustment to the new music and a more intricate linking through hand holds and arm movements. Plagiarism? Doesn't sound like P/C ... . Has this feature never been done before Green and Parson? If no, I am at a loss ...

I love the P/C, FB/S, H/D and Gre/Pa variations it adds texture to the dance. That mid section is just so yummy for me for P/C. It fits completely with the new choreo. They've been doing it like for only two weeks. The ordinary pattern looks just that ordinary. I love the innovation coming from both the IAM school and Gre/Par. I don't think anyone could seriously have any claims against P/C that is just not their style.

 

[deegee]

There are top-and-bottom film clips here showing snippets of Green/Parsons and Papadakis/Cizeron RDs.

https://twitter.com/mariannesmahler/status/1456816021462003714

Kind of interesting to see two teams shown together like this.

i don't understand twitter lingo... what do the acronyms mean in this tweet?

 

[sap5]

Just watching a bunch of videos of the RD - midnight step section - I totally get what they're saying now. Most teams are doing the classic, face-to-face hold with little changes in hold until the turn into a side-by-side before the second half of their midnight blues step, but Green/Parsons have a lot of changes of hold, a lot of back-to-back variations, and etc. that adds complexity to the step. Seeing their variations and then seeing Papadakis/Cizeron adopting those same holds in that comparison video, the plagiarism can be seen as pretty egregious. Hubbell/Donohue have a variation as well, but theirs is simpler but totally them (they stay face-to-face for the most part, but their arms look like they're about to arm wrestle for lack of a better description).

I'm going to have look more carefully, but my first impression is that the Green/Parsons variations (that P/C seem to be copying) make those steps easier because the skaters aren't matching body lines/free legs when they're back to back, but I could be wrong about that.

 

[Gris]

i don't understand twitter lingo... what do the acronyms mean in this tweet?

G/Pa = Green / Parsons
OGM = Olympic Gold Medal

 

[VGThuy]

I'm going to have look more carefully, but my first impression is that the Green/Parsons variations (that P/C seem to be copying) make those steps easier because the skaters aren't matching body lines/free legs when they're back to back, but I could be wrong about that.

Might be a situation of comparing the difficulty of adding complexity and intricacy but hindering execution vs. doing something more simply but much more exactness and accuracy. I remember in Broadway fan forums, people would compare the choreography of say Michael Bennett which was totally bombastic and full of steps and athleticism v. Bob Fosse which was deceptively simple but extremely difficult to perfect because he required an exactness and certain "unnatural" body shapes to create the image on stage.

 

[deegee]

G/Pa = Green / Parsons
OGM = Olympic Gold Medal

ok so its a joke. i thought ogm must have meant something else bc i thought the comment was serious

 

[Dobre]

Well, Sinitsina & Katsalapov and Shevchenko & Eremenko are both still signed up for NHK Trophy. Seems like a very good sign as we are into the work week now.

 

[Karen-W]

Well, Sinitsina & Katsalapov and Shevchenko & Eremenko are both still signed up for NHK Trophy. Seems like a very good sign as we are into the work week now,

Sinitsina posted an IG story earlier of driving through Tokyo.

 

[barbarafan]

The camera angles can affect quite a bit for these videos. I wouldn’t make any conclusions based on them.

I have always really liked Parsons but I find his programs with Green are very blah. I am guessing they will improve between now and the major competitions.

 

[Belsornia]

This week’s status check -

Any news on Ushakova/Nekrasov? They haven’t had any international assignments and I noticed they weren’t at this week’s Russian Cup event, which I think means they can’t qualify for the national championships.

 

[litenkyckling]

This week’s status check -

Any news on Ushakova/Nekrasov? They haven’t had any international assignments and I noticed they weren’t at this week’s Russian Cup event, which I think means they can’t qualify for the national championships.

I think they were supposed to be competing this week but wd? I forget did we see them at test skates?

 

[Colonel Green]

I think they were supposed to be competing this week but wd? I forget did we see them at test skates?

No, they withdrew from the test skates because Arina had YKW.

 

[Bigbird]

Genuine question: in what world is the RD of S/B scored higher than FB/S or S/D? What is it that I'm not seeing? Why is this still happening? Is this the Russian #2 bonus?