2022 Four Continents Comes To Rude Euro Land (Relocation to Tallinn)

[Vagabond]

On the assumption that is not a rhetorical question, I can think of a couple of answers.

It was a rhetorical question directed at one particular person, but your explanation might get that person to start thinking more carefully.

 

[screech]

On the assumption that is not a rhetorical question, I can think of a couple of answers.

Another is that many Asian competitors train in North America, which means it's more feasible for them to compete in North America than it is for North American competitors to compete in Asia.

That said, despite posts I've made with hypotheticals, I really don't think that top NA skaters will be competing at 4CC no matter where it takes place (I've just been posting to continue the conversation). The turn around is just too quick, and that causes more potential for injuries or illness in the Olympic hopefuls. It would be nice if it happened more often in non-Olympic years than it currently does, though.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Another is that many Asian competitors train in North America, which means it's more feasible for them to compete in North America than it is for North American competitors to compete in Asia.

That said, despite posts I've made with hypotheticals, I really don't think that top NA skaters will be competing at 4CC no matter where it takes place (I've just been posting to continue the conversation). The turn around is just too quick, and that causes more potential for injuries or illness in the Olympic hopefuls. It would be nice if it happened more often in non-Olympic years than it currently does, though.

I'm reminded of Four Continents in 2009. Being the official Olympic Games test event for Vancouver, meant having the top skaters present held significant political clout.

That being said, many of the skaters from Team USA looked exhausted, having competed at their own National Championships the previous week.

 

[seabm7]

US is not interested in hosting 4CC, according to Philip Hersh.

https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/1443252957684899845

 

[Seerek]

I wonder why Speed Skating 4CC isn't being held at the SLC oval? I doubt there would be a conflicting event.

Speed Skating 4CCs only started in 2020 - the first edition was in Milwaukee

SLC hosted the 2020 World Single Distance Championships two weeks later.

 

[Karen-W]

US is not interested in hosting 4CC, according to Philip Hersh.

https://twitter.com/olyphil/status/1443252957684899845

Well, Taipei or Tashkent it is! Hopefully the ISU will have an announcement by the end of the week.

 

[MsZem]

Secondly, it was an Asian country that created the problem. The most recent time that happened, a European country stepped in to volunteer holding the competition, but it's generally agreed that European countries are not the solution for a non-European skating event (although it might be amusing one year to hold Europeans in a 4 Continents country and 4 Continents in a European country just to see who complains the loudest).

Have Russia host 4CC in the Asian part of the country

 

[Judy]

Well hopefully they find something.

 

[On My Own]

It was a rhetorical question directed at one particular person, but your explanation might get that person to start thinking more carefully.

The explanation.

This thread has been full of posts about how the competition should be reassigned to a North American city to accommodate skaters based in North America,

The question:

Why is that?

I don't think you have accomplished much here, then, unfortunately. I know this is a largely North-American skating board, and people will care more about their own skaters, and they will suggest the US as a result of that. They didn't, however, say "we hate China, let's get the 4CCs to really show them", which also means I'd like to not see it being suggested for Taiwan or Japan or any other Asian country. Why would you bring in the politics of a region in it to make a point about skating? Or do you really think Taiwan cares so much about skating, that it's currently hatching some clandestine scheme to show up China through a sport federation it barely knows exists? If it was a joke, it wasn't funny, not to me anyway.

Taiwan might well take up the competition. It won't do it for "propaganda value" - much like the US and Canada will not do it for "propaganda value" either. They will do it for the skating. That's the point I was making, and also that the Americans, if I'd said "lol, the US should host it, because it's not like the US cares about how many Americans die anyway, lol", wouldn't have appreciated it. But by all means, continue.

yet no one has discussed the inconvenience of such a change on skaters based in Asia.

And, yes, BTW. The reason I was suggesting Asia, was indeed because of this. It's an Asian Olympics, I want the Asian Olympians to give it their best, and it would be a good practice event. If you really think I didn't know about the demographics of this place and this was some sort of revelation, then lol at that too, unfortunately.

ETA: But if you want me to ignore these posts or "think carefully" about what else I might read on the forum, then ok. Doesn't really matter to me most of the time. And I do apologize for being rude.

 

[mjb52]

Have Russia host 4CC in the Asian part of the country

They should do that one year and then also have Israel host Europeans. How much worse could it be then the Graz blow up rink?

 

[ostile17]

I wonder if Kazakhstan would step up.

 

[MacMadame]

Taiwan might well take up the competition. It won't do it for "propaganda value" - much like the US and Canada will not do it for "propaganda value" either. They will do it for the skating.

Actually, I think it would be both. Not some World politics value but for ISU "propaganda" value. Such as: we saved your butts so be nice to us next time we want something.

 

[mackiecat]

Certainly in terms of *********-19 distancing and safety, which is absolutely paramount.

But zero points for atmosphere.

Plus a large arena would just close down section. Even the most basic rink that HAS seating can house 1000-1500. So 25% occupancy is still at 300. So would be acceptable ( this is Ontario guidelines- picking Ontario because they are pretty strict)

 

[Vagabond]

Actually, I think it would be both. Not some World politics value but for ISU "propaganda" value. Such as: we saved your butts so be nice to us next time we want something.

I agree with this. The same held true with the FSFR's offer to host Worlds in 2011 after the Fukushima disaster.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Plus a large arena would just close down section. Even the most basic rink that HAS seating can house 1000-1500. So 25% occupancy is still at 300. So would be acceptable ( this is Ontario guidelines- picking Ontario because they are pretty strict)

I'm just thinking of the $$$ factor. This season during the Junior Grand Prix, arenas played to small if zero audiences.

I'm sure holding an event in a small local arena would put a lesser dint in costs that hiring out a mega space for an event that will likely attract very few customers.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Actually, I think it would be both. Not some World politics value but for ISU "propaganda" value. Such as: we saved your butts so be nice to us next time we want something.

If only it worked that way.

Australia took on two World Junior Championships which really tested their little organisation's budget.
But I'm sure taking on these events helped secure a bid for the big show in 2000.

However, when the ISU wasn't happy with the TV deal presented to them, they pulled the plug and gave the event to France.

 

[Cachoo]

On the other hand, it’s Four Continents and in an Olympic year innit.

Too bad you can’t Zoom the event literally from four continents.

 

[skatfan]

Chill out. I was just making an observation.

This thread has been full of posts about how the competition should be reassigned to a North American city to accommodate skaters based in North America, yet no one has discussed the inconvenience of such a change on skaters based in Asia. Why is that?

Because the North American skaters competing in Beijing would face two separate round trips to Asia in a very short time with all the issues dealing with the time changes and trying to train. That’s why we doubt they will compete at 4CCs.

Asian skaters would not experience that if they are held in North America. They would face only one such round trip.

 

[insideedgeua]

Because the North American skaters competing in Beijing would face two separate round trips to Asia in a very short time with all the issues dealing with the time changes and trying to train. That’s why we doubt they will compete at 4CCs.

Asian skaters would not experience that if they are held in North America. They would face only one such round trip.

Surely they would only make one trip. Stay in a bubble of skaters and stay closer to, or in China.

At the last Olympics many of Team USA were staying in a nearby town, I forget the name now. They had a training rink and the alternates were there too.

I’m not good at memory tasks ?, but the whole hotel was booked for Team USA.

This gets everyone used to the time zone too.

 

[Karen-W]

Surely they would only make one trip. Stay in a bubble of skaters and stay closer to, or in China.

At the last Olympics many of Team USA were staying in a nearby town, I forget the name now. They had a training rink and the alternates were there too.

I’m not good at memory tasks ?, but the whole hotel was booked for Team USA.

This gets everyone used to the time zone too.

First of all, let's stop pretending that any of the Olympic skaters training in North America are going to compete at 2022 4CCs, regardless of whether it's located in North America or Asia. Getting acclimated to the time zone ahead of Beijing is not going to be a factor for 90% of the skaters at 4CCs.

Second, having the skaters stay in a bubble closer to, or in China, is probably going to be next to impossible to manage for the US and Canadian teams because of the current travel and visitor restrictions. Using Japan or South Korea, with their abundance of rinks, isn't feasible this time around. The best the USOC could manage this summer for our Tokyo-bound athletes was a training bubble in Hawaii.

Whatever happens with regard to 4CCs, hopefully a federation will be able to put together a bid and deliver this event. It's a crying shame and more than a little selfish that China didn't have the decency and common sense to back out of hosting it last spring or earlier in the summer which would have given every single federation more time to step in and offer. Beyond that, you'd think a country as large as China could have handled this event, even with bubble and travel restrictions. For goodness sakes, if Stockholm could pull of Worlds last March there's no reason why China couldn't have handled 4CCs this year.

 

[Deleted member 221]

I'm surprised that even after Simone Biles, etc., people still have trouble seeing athletes as humans. If a human being decides that travelling halfway around the world twice in a short timeframe or spending several weeks training in a foreign country is not in their best interest, then that's OK with me. We shouldn't be "forcing" athletes to compete, even tacitly.

 

[clairecloutier]

It’s really going to be a shame for skaters from 4CCs countries if this event doesn’t find a home soon. As much as the Olympic-year 4CCs gets ragged on for not including the top skaters, it’s still an important opportunity for younger 4CCs skaters to get international experience, WS points, and to position themselves for the future.

There are a lot of very talented 4CCs skaters (just look at last night’s Japan Open) who aren’t going to make their country’s Olympic team. It’s going to be sad if they don’t get the chance to compete at 4CCs.

 

[mackiecat]

Too bad you can’t Zoom the event literally from four continents.

This is technically possible. Skate Ontario has been doing video hub competition since last years sectional. 2020 Challenge was also done this way.

 

[Frau Muller]

Top skaters fm NAm-Asia-Aus who are headed to the Olympics need 4Cs like a hole in the head. I hope that it’s postponed to 2023. Even talking about it is a distraction. MoveOn.org.

 

[Coco]

I wonder if they would consider rescheduling it to after the Olympics since another contenders are coming anyway.

 

[Karen-W]

I wonder if they would consider rescheduling it to after the Olympics since another contenders are coming anyway.

There isn't any time after the Olympics to re-schedule it - 2 weeks after the Olympics end is Jr Worlds and 2 weeks after that is Worlds.

 

[Orm Irian]

I wonder if they would consider rescheduling it to after the Olympics since another contenders are coming anyway.

For equity purposes, they'd have to reschedule Europeans to after the Olympics too if they did that.

Because the North American skaters competing in Beijing would face two separate round trips to Asia in a very short time with all the issues dealing with the time changes and trying to train. That’s why we doubt they will compete at 4CCs.

Asian skaters would not experience that if they are held in North America. They would face only one such round trip.

And African and Oceanian skaters would also face two separate long round trips to either Asia or North America, never mind which option gets chosen - whether they train at home or abroad. No matter what, if the competition gets held at all, more skaters than not are going to have to spend a lot of time on planes to get there, and back again if back is preferred/possible given the turnaround time between competitions and any quarantine requirements in their training locations. That's built in to the fact that it's a Four Continents competition, what with continents tending to be both large and quite far apart and all that.

Do you think South Africa might put their hands up for it? At least that way as many skaters as possible would be travelling as close to the same distance as possible and it would cancel out the impact of the travel on one group or another.

 

[Panja]

For equity purposes, they'd have to reschedule Europeans to after the Olympics too if they did that.


And African and Oceanian skaters would also face two separate long round trips to either Asia or North America, never mind which option gets chosen - whether they train at home or abroad. No matter what, if the competition gets held at all, more skaters than not are going to have to spend a lot of time on planes to get there, and back again if back is preferred/possible given the turnaround time between competitions and any quarantine requirements in their training locations. That's built in to the fact that it's a Four Continents competition, what with continents tending to be both large and quite far apart and all that.

Do you think South Africa might put their hands up for it? At least that way as many skaters as possible would be travelling as close to the same distance as possible and it would cancel out the impact of the travel on one group or another.

I don't know if they could do it, but it's an excellent compromise. I would still love to see it happening, with or without any Olympic skaters taking part. There's still a lot of skaters not going to the Olympics who are great to watch. Just thinking about that wonderful Australian Pairs couple who didn't make it at Nebelhorn but were pretty impressive all the same in their Free skate. Or the three (!) Philippine men who fought to get to Nebelhorn, but just didn't make it to the OWG.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Just thinking about that wonderful Australian Pairs couple who didn't make it at Nebelhorn but were pretty impressive all the same in their Free skate.

Sounds more like a booby prize to me,dear. "Sorry you couldn't qualify for the Olympics,but instead attend this competition devoid of all top talent that absolutely no one wants to host."

The Four Continents Championship will not happen this year,despite far-fetched scenarios pitched here. The time has come to move on.

-BB

 

[Lizziebeth]

At least South Africa is in the same time zone as Europe. There are two issues here: time zone and distance traveled.