Other Ladies Nagano 98

[olympic]

OK. Not about Kwan or Lipinski.

The 3-way battle for bronze that ended up being among Chen Lu, Butyrskaya and Slutskaya. Is everyone fine with LP placements for 3-5? JPN TV had great HD and different camera angle -

Chen Lu - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dd7qoAr8W2w
Slutskaya - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY7Ka4CLQC4
Butyrskaya - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmwGlmf5xDc

Lu beat Slutskaya and Butyrskaya in the LP to take bronze. It seems that Slutskaya had speed, power and jumps w/ combos and only that big step-out on the 3F. I think her tech was better than the other 2 but she ended up behind them. Lu and Butyrskaya probably had a 2nd mark edge over Slutskaya, but they had a lot of fudged landings between the 2 of them and simpler jumps. Butyrskaya had no real combo jumps and seriously stiff legs.

Lu was seriously inspirational and maybe the most emotional performer that night.

But, could an argument be made to have Slutskaya in 4th or even on the podium?

 

[VGThuy]

Technically, Slutskaya probably should have won. She has better spins and other than the flub on the flip, her jumps were the best of the three. Lu Chen, however, really did have the emotional skate of the night.

The marks are very telling too. Nobody got a majority of third place rankings, so it came down to who had the most 4th place and 3rd place ones. Butyrskaya was one judge away from winning the bronze and had 4 3rd place ordinals. Lu Chen had 3 3rd place ones and Slute had 2.

 

[tony]

They were all so close and I agree with the final result, but I'd have had Butyrskaya a definite 2nd in the short and Slutskaya probably 6th. I wouldn't have issue with putting Slutskaya 4th in the free program over Butyrskaya (and I'm surprised they didn't, honestly, let alone nearly hand Maria the bronze) seeing how Maria not only skated mediocre but was completely uninvested in it. I know Lu Chen deserved a ton of hits technically, but this wasn't IJS and she really stole that performance anyways. So yeah, Chen-Butyrskaya-Slutskaya final results with the two Russians switched in the LP.

 

[alchemy void]

Interestingly enough, from this angle and in HD, Butyrskaya's lutz and flip were definitively clean and not two-footed, despite what they looked like in real time. It's so odd she froze up in the last half of the program after she did all the hard stuff. Lu Chen and Slutskaya still easily outskated her in the LP, however.

I'm a brat and will argue Gusmeroli deserved to beat all three of them in the LP, and Bonaly should should have finished ahead of Slutskaya and Lu Chen in the SP.

 

[VGThuy]

Interestingly enough, from this angle and in HD, Butyrskaya's lutz and flip were definitively clean and not two-footed, despite what they looked like in real time. It's so odd she froze up in the last half of the program after she did all the hard stuff. Lu Chen and Slutskaya still easily outskated her in the LP, however.

I'm a brat and will argue Gusmeroli deserved to beat all three of them in the LP, and Bonaly should should have finished ahead of Slutskaya and Lu Chen in the SP.

Was Gusmeroli a fan of Tonya Harding by any chance? She was kind of uncoordinated throughout that LP. It was like she was still doing the circus tightrope balancing arms during some of those crossovers from the precious year’s program but without having a circus theme. I thought that was a character choice in 1997 but now I’m not so sure.

 

[Erin]

Was Gusmeroli a fan of Tonya Harding by any chance?

The hairstyle and some of the costume choices do suggest an homage to Tonya!

 

[alchemy void]

Was Gusmeroli a fan of Tonya Harding by any chance?

There are definitely some similarities there. Big ponytails, big lutzes and flips (though Tonya's lutz was bigger), and an affinity for saxophone solos in their programs.

It was like she was still doing the circus tightrope balancing arms during some of those crossovers from the precious year’s program but without having a circus theme.

I choose to believe that was her unique way of interpreting the four elements in this particular program.

 

[Marco]

Between the 3 of them:

Elements go to Irina; 5 clean triples including 3 combos of different nature, a 3/3, fast spins, strong spirals and amazing speed. To take a slight IJS mindset though, she was quite a bit behind after the short with the pop on the lutz combo. I would have had her a distant 5th in the short but 4th in the free (5.7/5.6).

Presentation goes to Lu; I watched this a few times recently and from various angles. The jumps looked quite cheated on the official feed and the sal looked 2footed, but on other feeds they looked less problematic. She did 'attempt' to rotate 7 triples including 2 lutzes and a late 3/3 (way off). Absolute best use of the music, by some way. I would have had her 4th in the short and she is my clear pick for 3rd in the free (5.5/5.9).

Maria probably had the best combined package of the three but didn't deliver; her jumps were stiff, there were no jump combos, she didn't project, etc. I would have had her 2nd in the short but 5th in the free (5.5/5.7). Given how the season had gone so far for her (won Natonals and Euros) and Irina (weak Nationals and Euros), and how the short program went (2nd vs 5th), I wouldn't be surprised that the RusFed went all out to politik for Maria alone to medal, and it simply backfired when the other judges went the other way and Lulu won out in a very split decision.

I would also like to acknowledge how much I love Elena Liashenko's short program. It was absolutely amazing and I probably would have put her above Surya and into the final group.

 

[olympic]

Interestingly enough, from this angle and in HD, Butyrskaya's lutz and flip were definitively clean and not two-footed, despite what they looked like in real time. It's so odd she froze up in the last half of the program after she did all the hard stuff. Lu Chen and Slutskaya still easily outskated her in the LP, however.

I'm a brat and will argue Gusmeroli deserved to beat all three of them in the LP, and Bonaly should should have finished ahead of Slutskaya and Lu Chen in the SP.

Really? It looked like Bute put a foot down on the 3F.

Kwan hit a wonky 3F, Lu stepped out of her 3F, Slute nearly fell, and I thought Bute 2 footed hers. What was it with that jump in Nagano?

 

[AxelAnnie]

Can an argument be made? Did you forget where you are? We are argument experts.
Slutskaya was amazing with her jumps. Fabulous.
Butryskaya had a great skate for her.

IMHO the night goes to Lu Chen. She was everything magical about skating. For her to even skate at all after all she had been through with her fed was amazing. And she was breathtaking. She let us see her soul as she skated. The music and costume could not have been better chosen.
It was just magic. And in the words of Scott Hamilton "I just love it when good things happen to good people "
If there was a gold medal for.skating from the heart ❤ ♥ it would have gone to LuLu that night.

 

[olympic]

Between the 3 of them:

Elements go to Irina; 5 clean triples including 3 combos of different nature, a 3/3, fast spins, strong spirals and amazing speed. To take a slight IJS mindset though, she was quite a bit behind after the short with the pop on the lutz combo. I would have had her a distant 5th in the short but 4th in the free (5.7/5.6).

Presentation goes to Lu; I watched this a few times recently and from various angles. The jumps looked quite cheated on the official feed and the sal looked 2footed, but on other feeds they looked less problematic. She did 'attempt' to rotate 7 triples including 2 lutzes and a late 3/3 (way off). Absolute best use of the music, by some way. I would have had her 4th in the short and she is my clear pick for 3rd in the free (5.5/5.9).

Maria probably had the best combined package of the three but didn't deliver; her jumps were stiff, there were no jump combos, she didn't project, etc. I would have had her 2nd in the short but 5th in the free (5.5/5.7). Given how the season had gone so far for her (won Natonals and Euros) and Irina (weak Nationals and Euros), and how the short program went (2nd vs 5th), I wouldn't be surprised that the RusFed went all out to politik for Maria alone to medal, and it simply backfired when the other judges went the other way and Lulu won out in a very split decision.

I would also like to acknowledge how much I love Elena Liashenko's short program. It was absolutely amazing and I probably would have put her above Surya and into the final group.

Interesting. You would have put Butyrskaya ahead of Lipinski in the SP? Everyone went on at the time and in retrospect about how Lipinski's jump layout was the most ambitious (only skater with a 3F as the solo jump I think) and how joyful she was in Nagano 98.

 

[tony]

Interesting. You would have put Butyrskaya ahead of Lipinski in the SP? Everyone went on at the time and in retrospect about how Lipinski's jump layout was the most ambitious (only skater with a 3F as the solo jump I think) and how joyful she was in Nagano 98.

Butyrskaya 100% deserved to be ahead of Lipinski in the short IMO, and I really wonder if it would've been closer had Maria not skated first. They did the same combo jump 3Lz+2Lo, and Maria's solo loop was about as good as they come- so she actually had a harder program than Kwan in both the solo jump and the combination, but I don't deny Michelle's first place based on the strength of everything else. Lipinski wasn't a terrible skater by any means, but Maria was better that day for me.

 

[Sylvia]

@Braulio posted these 1998 Nagano Ladies full replay links (and many other replay links ) in the "Olympic Channel on Ice" thread back in early January: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ating-streaming-platform.107837/#post-5923543

Ladies Short

Women's Short Program - Figure Skating | Nagano 1998 Replays

The Women's Short Program took place on 18/02/1998 at the White Ring, Nagano. Michelle Kwan (USA) lead the competition into the Free Program.

www.olympicchannel.com

Ladies Free

Women's Free Program - Figure Skating | Nagano 1998 Replays

The Women's Free Program took place on 20/02/1998 at the White Ring, Nagano 1998. Tara Lipinski (USA) claimed the Gold, Michelle Kwan (USA) took Silver and Chen Lu (CHN) completed the podium.

www.olympicchannel.com

 

[Aussie Willy]

Hell no one has mentioned how Hubert "wiped" the competition with her performance in the free at that Olympics.

 

[alchemy void]

Really? It looked like Bute put a foot down on the 3F.

Sadly, I watched it on 0.25 speed, and while the jump is a hot mess in the air, it's definitely not two footed, despite the wide swinging free leg.

Hell no one has mentioned how Hubert "wiped" the competition with her performance in the free at that Olympics.

She finished 21st in the LP, but I've always found it hard to believe 3 skaters wore worse than that. Maybe I'll have to watch Kopac, Human, and Andrade and report back.

 

[alchemy void]

Shirene Human's LP is Children by Robert Miles—I've always wanted someone to skate to that! I have to admit I'm kind of surprised Carol Heiss signed off on that music selection.

 

[Braulio]

That Free Skate by Hubert was so sad and frustrating to watch back then; I remember mexican tv showed the ladies free skate live at early morning (around 5 am) and that was the first program I watched when I woke up, so sad way to start everything and sad day overall for me since I was rooting so hard for Kwan and well we know what happened.

At least one year later Laetitia gave us all the same craptacular performance but with one of the voidiest programs ever, the legendary and iconic 'Prostitute on drugs'

 

[alchemy void]

For the hundreds who have been left in suspense, I would have placed Marta Andrade in front of Hubert in the LP here, but I'm perfectly fine with Kopac and Human's placements.

That Free Skate by Hubert was so sad and frustrating to watch back then; I remember mexican tv showed the ladies free skate live at early morning (around 5 am) and that was the first program I watched when I woke up, so sad way to start everything and sad day overall for me since I was rooting so hard for Kwan and well we know what happened.

As bad/disappointing as this performance was, it's an important part of the tapestry of the most epic season from any elite skater ever:

11th - Nations Cup (dead last)
1st - Lalique
WD - Grand Prix Final
1st - French Nationals
WD - Euros
20th - Olympics
4th - Worlds (robbed of 3rd)

Absolutely insane. I don't think we'll see anything like that ever again.

 

[Erin]

For the hundreds who have been left in suspense

The suspense was killing me!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I'm sorry that Szewczenko and Czako weren't in Nagano, and if healthy, may have each featured in the medal conversation.

 

[Braulio]

I'm sorry that Szewczenko and Czako weren't in Nagano, and if healthy, may have each featured in the medal conversation.

Tanja was a medal contender, Czako maybe around 8th place at best

 

[tony]

Both were actually in Nagano and withdrew the day or two before the short.

I think Czako was somewhat in the mix. She was 4th in the SP at Euros (ahead of eventual winner Butyrskaya) and still had Addams Family that year. But she withdrew, disappeared (injured?), and came back randomly for the 1999 Vienna Cup?! and I think that was that. The golden days of Hungarians, Poth-Sebestyen-Dorofejev all finishing top 10 at 2000 Euros.

 

[Braulio]

Both were actually in Nagano and withdrew the day or two before the short.

I think Czako was somewhat in the mix. She was 4th in the SP at Euros (ahead of eventual winner Butyrskaya) and still had Addams Family that year. But she withdrew, disappeared (injured?), and came back randomly for the 1999 Vienna Cup?! and I think that was that. The golden days of Hungarians, Poth-Sebestyen-Dorofejev all finishing top 10 at 2000 Euros.

And Viktoria Pavuk, one hit wonder at Europeans 2004

 

[alchemy void]

came back randomly for the 1999 Vienna Cup?!

Krisztina Czakó Karl Schäfer Memorial 1999 short program

Krisztina Czakó Karl Schäfer Memorial 1999 short program

youtu.be

How incredible is this program? What a voidfest. This is even better than Masquerade Waltz or Addams Family for me. The last half of the program, starting with the 2A, is choreographed so well and the placement of the elements is perfect. What is Bobrin doing these days? We desperately need him!

It was rumored her LP at this event was dog themed, but no video has ever surfaced. I used to imagine it's her racing around the rink in a dog onesie to a soundtrack of dogs barking.

 

[Marco]

Both were actually in Nagano and withdrew the day or two before the short.

I am so sorry to hear this. I never could comprehend how sick one had to be to withdraw from the biggest competiton of their lives. Especially when they were already there and it was too late to be replaced anyways.

Fortunately both had already competed at the Olympics before so it's not like they worked towards the biggest goal of their lives only to be denied by a flu, literally.

 

[Deleted member 221]

I feel like Butyrskaya got European Champion benefit here. This was a classic example of skating not to lose - so, so, so tight on every jump; no combinations; left out the final triple loop that she planned. (Though to be fair, she did that often that season.) Given how she was judged, that last triple loop may have been enough. I wonder if she left it out because she didn't feel like she could do the combination that she had intended to do on the first one, which was landed shakily and on the toe.

I'm glad for Lu Chen, but those jumps . I wonder where there would have been under COP - even top 8? It's carrot city. Even by 1990s standards, the underrotations were obvious, and I feel like the judges used significant discretion and/or were swayed by emotion. Can't say I'm sad about that, though.

I love Gusmeroli, but my memory is that while the program was cool, the choreography was incredibly simple with a lot of back and forth set-ups for jumps, plus two doubled jumps. I wouldn't have had her in the top five.

 

[antmanb]

Shirene Human's LP is Children by Robert Miles—I've always wanted someone to skate to that! I have to admit I'm kind of surprised Carol Heiss signed off on that music selection.

The one and only time I ever competed at British Adult Nationals I skated to Robert Miles Children. I came 5th out of 5.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I am so sorry to hear this. I never could comprehend how sick one had to be to withdraw from the biggest competiton of their lives. Especially when they were already there and it was too late to be replaced anyways.

Fortunately both had already competed at the Olympics before so it's not like they worked towards the biggest goal of their lives only to be denied by a flu, literally.

I feel for the competitors later this month competing in Stockholm.

Hope nobody gets sick after all the effort it will have taken to get to the World Championships

 

[Erin]

I am so sorry to hear this. I never could comprehend how sick one had to be to withdraw from the biggest competiton of their lives. Especially when they were already there and it was too late to be replaced anyways.

To see what it looked like to try to compete with that flu, watch Savard-Gagnon and Bradet’s free skate in Nagano. They decided to try to compete through the flu and it was pretty painful to watch. It would be interesting to hear now if they are happy they did so or wish they would have just withdrawn. Especially given current thoughts about spreading infectious diseases

At least Czako and Szewczenko had competed in the Olympics before so they weren’t giving up on their one and only Olympic experience. Maybe that played into their decision vs Savard-Gagnon & Bradet.

 

[gkelly]

The ordinals for places 3-4-5 in the free skate were so mixed up that any small change could have completely flipped those placements. Even with the scores the judges did award, depending on skate order, there could have been multiple flipflops in LP and overall standings among those three skaters.

My favorite thing about the other ladies in that freeskate was that as of the resurface, 4 of the top 5 in the current standings were named Julia/Yulia.