Other Ladies Nagano 98

alchemy void said:
For the hundreds who have been left in suspense, I would have placed Marta Andrade in front of Hubert in the LP here, but I'm perfectly fine with Kopac and Human's placements. :p


As bad/disappointing as this performance was, it's an important part of the tapestry of the most epic season from any elite skater ever:

11th - Nations Cup (dead last)
1st - Lalique
WD - Grand Prix Final
1st - French Nationals
WD - Euros
20th - Olympics
4th - Worlds (robbed of 3rd)

Absolutely insane. :respec: :gallopin1 I don't think we'll see anything like that ever again.
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I think we need to introduce you to a talented young skater named Veronika Zhilina. She is capable of beating Eteri girls with quads, but also placing dead last in competitions. I'm too old and my heart too weak to even dare be a fan of hers!
 
alchemy void said:
Sadly, I watched it on 0.25 speed, and while the jump is a hot mess in the air, it's definitely not two footed, despite the wide swinging free leg.
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OK. I saw the opening 3Z in Bute's LP and it was a train-wreck in mid-air but landed nicely on 1 foot. How does she do that?? :rofl:

I think she would've been a GOE challenge under IJS.

-----

ETA - For the helluvit, I watched some 98 Worlds LPs and Slutskaya / Butyrskaya both attacked a lot more in Minneapolis. Hubert was in the mix and her LP was broadcast. It was fun listening to DB comment: Hubert's performance - "I don't know what those hand movements mean" :rofl:
 
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Foolhardy Ham Lint said:
I'm sorry that Szewczenko and Czako weren't in Nagano, and if healthy, may have each featured in the medal conversation.
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I think Szewczenko, whom I believe was skating to Evita for the SP in 97-98, would've skated strong enough to knock Bonaly out of the final group. Maybe 4th ahead of Lu (?) but would not have touched Butyrskaya's SP. I understand Czako had a strong SP as well to The Addams Family. Since Slutskaya doubled her jump combo, maybe Czako could've also been in the final group but politik may have kept Slutskaya where she was ... IDK.

Sadly, Szewcenko reverted to form at 98 Euros and 98 Worlds and slipped backwards in the rankings after the LP. I would like to think she could've duplicated her CSF LP at Nagano, but that likely wasn't going to happen. I don't think Czako was ever a medal threat but top 10 was doable.
 
olympic said:
I think Szewczenko, whom I believe was skating to Evita for the SP in 97-98, would've skated strong enough to knock Bonaly out of the final group. Maybe 4th ahead of Lu (?) but would not have touched Butyrskaya's SP. I understand Czako had a strong SP as well to The Addams Family. Since Slutskaya doubled her jump combo, maybe Czako could've also been in the final group but politik may have kept Slutskaya where she was ... IDK.

Sadly, Szewcenko reverted to form at 98 Euros and 98 Worlds and slipped backwards in the rankings after the LP. I would like to think she could've duplicated her CSF LP at Nagano, but that likely wasn't going to happen. I don't think Czako was ever a medal threat but top 10 was doable.
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Czako's LP was Addams Family- same as '97. She was a strong short program skater though when she got it right- I think she should've been at least 2nd in the short at Worlds in '97 and I know there are others who thought she made a case to even win it. Who knows at the Olympics.

Szewczenko wasn't skating amazing long programs all season leading up to Nagano, aside from the Champions Series Final. Nations Cup was a relatively weak set of skates at the top, and I think Butyrskaya had a case to win NHK. Tanja actually skated pretty well at Euros and I'm surprised she got pushed down to 3rd, even though I really was a hardcore Maria fan by that point and was happy for her win. Tanja even said afterwards that she felt it was set that a Russian would win IIRC, and the only way to make it happen was to slide Irina in ahead of Tanja, as Maria really was best that day but coming from way behind.
 
I'm wondering if Anna Rechnio had skated a clean short in Nagano (as she did a month later at the World Championships), and perhaps skated a five or six triple free skate, whether she would have been a medal contender as well.

Her second-placed short program in Minneapolis was fabulous, and is worth checking out.

www.youtube.com

Anna Rechnio POL - 1998 World Championships SP

QB : 2nd, SP : 2nd, LP : 5th, 5th placeMarch 29th-5th April, Minneapolis, USA
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
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tony said:
Czako's LP was Addams Family- same as '97. She was a strong short program skater though when she got it right- I think she should've been at least 2nd in the short at Worlds in '97 and I know there are others who thought she made a case to even win it. Who knows at the Olympics.

Szewczenko wasn't skating amazing long programs all season leading up to Nagano, aside from the Champions Series Final. Nations Cup was a relatively weak set of skates at the top, and I think Butyrskaya had a case to win NHK. Tanja actually skated pretty well at Euros and I'm surprised she got pushed down to 3rd, even though I really was a hardcore Maria fan by that point and was happy for her win. Tanja even said afterwards that she felt it was set that a Russian would win IIRC, and the only way to make it happen was to slide Irina in ahead of Tanja, as Maria really was best that day but coming from way behind.
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I believe Dorothy Hamill detailed there was concern that Szewczenko was very sick at the event, and may not have even skated the long program.

Tanja gave it everything at the Grand Prix Series Final in Munich. Just for the emotional connection she had with her routine and the audience alone, I would have put her first above Lipinski.
 
Foolhardy Ham Lint said:
I believe Dorothy Hamill detailed there was concern that Szewczenko was very sick at the event, and may not have even skated the long program.

Tanja gave it everything at the Grand Prix Series Final in Munich. Just for the emotional connection she had with her routine and the audience alone, I would have put her first above Lipinski.
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Her skating isn't without faults, but that LP performance really is one of my favorite of all-time. Hamill even said it was the greatest performance she'd ever seen.

And yes, I checked and it was tonsillitis but I do remember reading there was a question of whether she would be able to finish the competition.
 
Enjoying these late 90s throwbacks the past few days...

Even after Europeans, I think Szewczenko was still considered a mild favorite for bronze in Nagano on the basis of her strong fall events, although Butyrskaya and Bobek were also considered primary contenders.

olympic said:
I think she would've been a GOE challenge under IJS.
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Definitely. The thing about that particular 3F is even though it's stiff and a mess in the air, she still gets crazy speed and flow on the landing.
tony said:
Tanja actually skated pretty well at Euros and I'm surprised she got pushed down to 3rd
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Even though Slutskaya was technically better (largely on the basis of spins), her presentation was so ghastly at this particular competition: zero performance and chasing triples the last half of the program. I'd still easily put Tanja above her in the LP, despite the two footed jumps.

I think one can make a case Liashenko should have finished on the podium here, based on an apparently clean SP (skated first and only finished 7th) and a decent LP with 4 clean triples and a hand down on the salchow.
 
alchemy void said:
I think one can make a case Liashenko should have finished on the podium here, based on an apparently clean SP (skated first and only finished 7th) and a decent LP with 4 clean triples and a hand down on the salchow.
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Liashenko was your classic nineties skater. Her jump layout was usually one of each triple (excluding the axel), and a double axel.

Word has it she is still setting up a triple lutz she started in 2005, though.
 
Szewczenko had so little choreography and so much two-footed skating in her programs. Her short programs drove me crazy: no footwork into the solo jump, step-over (no fly) into the flying camel, footwork patterns that were never closed.... The judges chose to ignore so much before the advent of Code of Points.

In contrast, Slutskaya's 1997-98 free skate actually had some cool choreography (at least if you look at her feet): the spiral sequence was quite tricky, even before the double axel she did at the end of it.
 
Louis said:
Szewczenko had so little choreography and so much two-footed skating in her programs. Her short programs drove me crazy: no footwork into the solo jump, step-over (no fly) into the flying camel, footwork patterns that were never closed.... The judges chose to ignore so much before the advent of Code of Points.

In contrast, Slutskaya's 1997-98 free skate actually had some cool choreography (at least if you look at her feet): the spiral sequence was quite tricky, even before the double axel she did at the end of it.
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Totally agree on all of this and I’m actually surprised you said it! When we did the ‘98 Worlds mock judging, I kept ranting about all of the technical issues Tanja had in her short program, even if she were to skate clean.

Slutskaya’s LP was actually one of the stronger vehicles for her, seeing how empty Carmen was post-reinvention especially. I just found it interesting that, in this instance at Euros, Irina got the nod in the LP when she was behind both at the Champions Series Final and Tanja really was the one with the hot streak and momentum at that point and it’s not as if she skated bad. Slutskaya finished 4th at Nationals just prior to that, too IIRC.

ETA- I just looked. She was actually close to finishing 6th but held on for 4th overall. What a mess of ordinals in that event!
 
tony said:
Slutskaya’s LP was actually one of the stronger vehicles for her,
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Yes--at Worlds Slutskaya's LP was great. Pretty good at Olympics. But the performance at Euros was NOT it. No performance quality at ALL, she looked miserable, and the second half of the program was a mess, rearranging the elements, desperately trying to land a clean 3Lo. And don't get me started on that dress. :scream: Perhaps I'm also slightly influenced by Peggy's surprisingly hostile commentary here. :lol:

This is a good example of how the same program by the same skater in the same season should get significantly different presentation/component scores across different competitions. The difference in performance here vs. Worlds is crazy.
 
alchemy void said:
Yes--at Worlds Slutskaya's LP was great. Quite good at Olympics. But the performance at Euros was NOT it. No performance quality at ALL, she looked miserable, and the second half of the program was a mess, rearranging the elements, desperately trying to land a clean 3Lo. And don't get me started on the dress. Perhaps I'm also slightly influenced by Peggy's surprisingly hostile commentary here. :lol:

This is a good example of how the same program by the same skater in the same season should get significantly different presentation/component scores across different competitions. The difference in performance here vs. Worlds is crazy.
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Also, remember 1997 Cup of Russia where she really tanked the performance, had an odd dress for that music, and was completely uninvested. She wasn't really having a great year at all prior to beating Tanja at Euros, as to where Tanja was coming off the CSF just weeks before that. Maria had really claimed the top Russian spot in the eyes of international judges at that point, and it carried through the Olympics where they easily could've given her 5th behind Irina after that skate.

Maybe Tanja was right that the judges helped a Russian to the win. ;) It's not like it hasn't happened before. I still think Liashenko was held down in 2004 in a big way to A) get Sokolova up to the podium and at the same time B) give Sebestyen the win.

ETA- I saw there was one (hidden) comment on Slutskaya's video and it's my own from 9 years ago. I see that I was carrying on about Tanja probably deserving the win even back then.
 
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Don't forget, two years ago, after hours of exhaustive research and hard work, I discovered she had a weird dress rotation going on that season:
alchemy void said:
Sparkassen: blue & green
CoR: white
GPF: blue & green
Nationals: white
Euros: blue & green
Olympics/Worlds: red
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Maybe the white dress was intended to appear at the Olympics to continue the pattern, but I think she broke part of it off after a really bad LP at Nationals.

...aaaand I feel like everything about this post is sad/pathetic. :p
 
alchemy void said:
Yes--at Worlds Slutskaya's LP was great. Pretty good at Olympics. But the performance at Euros was NOT it. No performance quality at ALL, she looked miserable, and the second half of the program was a mess, rearranging the elements, desperately trying to land a clean 3Lo. And don't get me started on that dress. :scream:
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Word has it that Irina hid tchotchkes in her shoulder pads.
 
alchemy void said:
Enjoying these late 90s throwbacks the past few days...

Even after Europeans, I think Szewczenko was still considered a mild favorite for bronze in Nagano on the basis of her strong fall events, although Butyrskaya and Bobek were also considered primary contenders.


Definitely. The thing about that particular 3F is even though it's stiff and a mess in the air, she still gets crazy speed and flow on the landing.

Even though Slutskaya was technically better (largely on the basis of spins), her presentation was so ghastly at this particular competition: zero performance and chasing triples the last half of the program. I'd still easily put Tanja above her in the LP, despite the two footed jumps.

I think one can make a case Liashenko should have finished on the podium here, based on an apparently clean SP (skated first and only finished 7th) and a decent LP with 4 clean triples and a hand down on the salchow.
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I find Butyrskaya in retrospect to be a unique and interesting skater. When she was relaxed, she had a certain command of the ice and made subtle music work, plus a good outside edge on the Lutz
 
tony said:
Her skating isn't without faults, but that LP performance really is one of my favorite of all-time. Hamill even said it was the greatest performance she'd ever seen.

And yes, I checked and it was tonsillitis but I do remember reading there was a question of whether she would be able to finish the competition.
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I’m confused...had Hamill not watched any ladies skating since 1976 or something?
 
VGThuy said:
I’m confused...had Hamill not watched any ladies skating since 1976 or something?
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She was commentating the Grand Prix and other events prior to that season, so I'd assume yes ;)

But in that moment, it really was an astonishing performance. I do remember reading of her health issues that week, on top of everything she had suffered in the year before that, and I don't think anyone was expecting much out of her in the free skate. Of course we look at her skating now through IJS eyes and there's a lack of choreography and a two-footed toe loop at the end, but it had to be electric inside the building for that skate. I remember I purposely didn't look up results because I was already a hardcore Butyrskaya fan at that point, and I think this aired right around Christmas Eve.

Someone interviewed me and asked what my favorite performance was during my blog days, and I remember that I named Szewczenko's CSF free skate. Over Butyrskaya's 2000 Worlds short, over the multitudes of other favorite skaters I had throughout the years, over Kwan's Dante's Prayer which may be my absolute favorite.. I dunno. It really just stuck out for a long time in my memory, way before the days of video clips online and that was one competition I did not record.
 
Even before IJS eyes when I looked it up later, I didn’t think it was that great. Maybe it’s one of those you had to watch it live and be surprised with the results.
 
I've just rewatched Tatiana Malinina's SP on Olympic Channel. She made no mistake with 3Lz/2T combo and solo 3F !
 
Louis said:
Szewczenko had so little choreography and so much two-footed skating in her programs. Her short programs drove me crazy: no footwork into the solo jump, step-over (no fly) into the flying camel, footwork patterns that were never closed.... The judges chose to ignore so much before the advent of Code of Points.
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Hubert didn't drive you crazy :P
 
1998 was the year Butyrskaya showed up at Euros a totally different skater. (I had no chance watching GP in Norway back then). She had switched from Kudriatsev to Tchaikovskaya, and she gave her great programs and a different presence and confidence. Bute was just a different skater, showing off a totally different vibe than before. Her winning Euros was so delightful, after seeing her totally choke so many times. Had she skated Otonal like at Euros (or in 1999) she would have got podium in Nagano. She had some momentum from Euros, but it was so close, with messy ordinals.

Chen was not on par jump wise, but the program was stunning and she was moving magically as always. Her spins were very short, but they always were. Judges didn’t seem to mind. I loved Chen getting the bronze back then, as she kept me in the zone for all four minutes, I was. Bute didn’t manage that on that particular evening, but for sure did again later

Irina was a mess at Euros (and so was the dress), but the folklore program is my favourite of hers. Lots of energy and joy. She went for broke in the FS in Nagano, and I might have put her third, but I have to rewatch. Her pattern of movement couldn’t be more different from Chen’s though, so it’s tough.

Czako was always low balled (Worlds 97...) so I sadly don’t think she’d be a medal factor if she was there, even if she should have been! She was a much better jumper than Tanja S., and both her programs were so good and original. (Igor Bobrin, genius!)
 
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