Alysa Liu Ready for Change (NEW ARTICLES)

Bringing this back to Alysa, what things would you like to see from her in terms of improvement?

Mine:
  • Speed
  • Ice coverage
  • Skating skills

I don't find her technique deplorable, but I do think that it needs some fine-tuning (as is the case with everyone). Despite her "growth spurt," she rotates like a "rocket" as someone said and with a little bit more speed and power, I'm sure she is more than capable of regaining her 3A and a quad (maybe not the Lutz but possibly a Toe or Salchow). Fixing her edge on the Flip and pre-rotation issues will also help with the overall steadiness and correctness of her technique as well, but those things come with time. One of my favorite lines from her is when she states that things like this will take time and she doesn't expect results overnight. That is more humble and realistic than 99% of the people who criticize her.
 
Every skater goes through puberty at some point. It must be tough for competitors who have worked so hard to get where they are, suddenly dealing with a changing body, and the variables which go along with that in a highly public setting.

Sometimes athletes lose their bigger tricks, never to find them again. Others come out stronger on the other side. The sport has, and will always be, such a crap shoot.

I try not to emotionally attach myself hoping for the sport's next big star, and simply enjoy watching the process and the journey.

At last weekend's Carnival On Ice, in spite of the lashings she and her crew are getting from such armchair critics as TSL, I thought Liu looked lovely, and seemed to be enjoying herself out there. What is more important than that?

Clearly David Lease and Jonathan Beyer don't get they are dealing with children and young people, where constructive criticism and considered feedback mean the world. At worst, their eye-rolling commentary targets and bullies for the sake of entertainment.

On the flip side, the athletes are more grown up and professional than these 'experts' ever will be.
 
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essence_of_soy said:
Clearly David Lease and Jonathan Beyer don't get they are dealing with children and young people, where constructive criticism and considered feedback mean the world. At worst, their eye-rolling commentary targets and bullies for the sake of entertainment.

On the flip side, the athletes are more grown up and professional than these 'experts' ever will be.
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David and the other idiots at TSL constantly belittle female skaters (including minors) for their weight and their physical appearance in an offensive and frankly misogynistic way. He has no real expertise in the sport; many of us on FSU have been following figure skating for longer and have a lot more knowledge and personal experience. He gained "fame" from a gossip blog. I don't know why anyone continues to give him and his sorry excuse for a show any attention.
 
Between Alysa's growth spurt and changing body and her coaching situation and not being able to train with him she needs to find a jump coach as soon as possible and work on those skating skills and speed or otherwise i see her losing those jumps especially the quad and 3axl. This virus really threw a wrench into her plans.
 
essence_of_soy said:
Clearly David Lease and Jonathan Beyer don't get they are dealing with children and young people, where constructive criticism and considered feedback mean the world. At worst, their eye-rolling commentary targets and bullies for the sake of entertainment.
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Lots of problems with TSL, no defense, but I'll just say they're assuming Alyssa and other young skaters don't watch their show, which is probably true.
 
Thank goodness for TSL! It’s my weekly “must see” 90 minutes of joy. I look forward to every Sunday afternoon to a new This n That. ? And last night they scooped TJ, just before sh** hit the fan!!!!! ?
 
My apprehensions have been borne out. She portrays Gelsomina (and has the makeup to make that clear), the program is tawdry, and there is not a trace of the pathos for which the part calls. Shame on whoever thought this was a good idea.

I hope that she gets a better program for the Olympic year. Even Adult Contemporary dreck would be better than this.
 
Vagabond said:
My apprehensions have been borne out. She portrays Gelsomina (and has the makeup to make that clear), the program is tawdry, and there is not a trace of the pathos for which the part calls. Shame on whoever thought this was a good idea.

I hope that she gets a better program for the Olympic year. Even Adult Contemporary dreck would be better than this.
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She's also 15 and skating to music she likes, I'd guess. I get that we as fans sometimes know every last detail behind the music and some know every facet of stuff like ballet, but you know very well that probably 95% of them are just skating to music they like and trying to include choreography that earns points.

And yes, she can win without the big elements.
 
Maybe whoever choreographed the program also had the mistaken idea that I once had that it is the wacky story of two clowns in love :) (sometimes I wonder if I actually got that from Usova/Zhulin's 94 Olympics free, which I observed inattentively, as I did not like it - did they use La Strada)?

eta: No looks like they didn't. But I do think some kind of misunderstanding of that program and conflating some things together is the stew of confusion that gave birth to my misbegotten idea.

Anyway, I like her program. As with Bolero, I don't think the program has to relate to the backstory behind the music. No one criticized Kostornaya's The Leftovers program for not portraying the story of the tv show (although maybe you could stretch that they were related in a very distant way). I think it's not only fine but preferable and will make for more interesting programs if they use the music to create their own concept. This is why I personally often struggle with programs with lyrics. It's just incredibly hard to avoid interpreting them literally.
 
mjb52 said:
Maybe whoever choreographed the program also had the mistaken idea that I once had that it is the wacky story of two clowns in love :) (sometimes I wonder if I actually got that from Usova/Zhulin's 94 Olympics free, which I observed inattentively, as I did not like it - did they use La Strada)?
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Usova & Zhulin's FD in 1994 was from 'Amarcord', which Fusar-Poli & Margaglio also used in 1998. In 1994 Rahkamo & Kokko used 'La Strada' and told a story of two homeless people in love (which is not the story of La Strada the film)
 
Come on, almost all of FSU loved Savchenko/Szolkowy's Send in the Clowns and then we are always going to have those one or two people that are beside themselves because they are extremely cultured and want to stress that the song isn't about clowns at all.

Most programs in skating are not literal at all. And skaters can interpret however they want. At least they are trying to interpret something, right?

Endless skaters use Feelin' Good and end up sulking around the ice not listening to the music at all. They don't seem to be feelin' good.
 
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Taso said:
Usova & Zhulin's FD in 1994 was from 'Amarcord', which Fusar-Poli & Margaglio also used in 1998. In 1994 Rahkamo & Kokko used 'La Strada' and told a story of two homeless people in love (which is not the story of La Strada the film)
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omg THANK YOU. That must be where it came from. I have been wondering why I thought that ever since I saw the movie and was just like... wait... what. This is not what I was led to expect. I was so mad! (It's a great movie but I wasn't at all prepared for how devastating it would be).
 
I'm of two minds on this. Why use the music if you're not going to tell the story and if you're going to use the music for the love of good don't tell the story. It's hard. Much of classical music is about themes or characters inappropriate for children. Does the coach say "Let's do Carmen, she's a gypsy" or "How about Meditation from Thais, it's pretty", and young students just say ok without knowing the full stories? Do coaches say "In the story she's a 'courtesan' but ignore that part"? Or straight up "You're portraying a 'courtesan', do you know what that is?" I just don't understand the intentions of the skaters or the coaches, so it's difficult to know how to feel.
 
Natanielle825 said:
I'm of two minds on this. Why use the music if you're not going to tell the story and if you're going to use the music for the love of good don't tell the story. It's hard. Much of classical music is about themes or characters inappropriate for children. Does the coach say "Let's do Carmen, she's a gypsy" or "How about Meditation from Thais, it's pretty", and young students just say ok without knowing the full stories? Do coaches say "In the story she's a 'courtesan' but ignore that part"? Or straight up "You're portraying a 'courtesan', do you know what that is?" I just don't understand the intentions of the skaters or the coaches, so it's difficult to know how to feel.
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I go to Berezhnaya/Sikharulidze as an example. Neither of their programs in SLC portrayed the original story of the music but that wasn't their point. They were still able to make art out of it. A lot of film directors and choreographers in dance re-purpose classical pieces to new dances. Many of those pieces came from ballets/operas that had their own storylines.
 
tony said:
She didn’t skate a clean program. But since you want to go there, she won the Pewter medal and it was tight between 2-4. Thanks for the input.
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Yes, I am sure that’s a reason for celebration. A pewter medal. I think USA may be the only country who awards medal for fourth place. And you claimed she can win. I guess she can, if the other three get ill or injured.
 
hanca said:
Yes, I am sure that’s a reason for celebration. A pewter medal. I think USA may be the only country who awards medal for fourth place. And you claimed she can win.
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See, you're going out of your way to instigate and then you're going to somehow make it my fault for replying.

Massimo Scali said she could win without the big jumps. There was a small back-and-forth following that. She was in 2nd place after the short after the majority of FSU fandom and skating fandom thought she was going to bomb the entire competition.

I'm going to repeat: she did not skate clean and left a ton of points on the table. I didn't say she would win, no one said she would win. She can win a competition without a 3A and 4Lz.

We saw Mariah melt down. Does that mean she can't win either?

And yes, a medal is a medal regardless of how you choose to look at it.
 
tony said:
See, you're going out of your way to instigate and then you're going to somehow make it my fault for replying.

Massimo Scali said she could win without the big jumps. There was a small back-and-forth following that. She was in 2nd place after the short after the majority of FSU fandom and skating fandom thought she was going to bomb the entire competition.

I'm going to repeat: she did not skate clean and left a ton of points on the table. I didn't say she would win, no one said she would win. She can win a competition without a 3A and 4Lz.

We saw Mariah melt down. Does that mean she can't win either?

And yes, a medal is a medal regardless of how you choose to look at it.
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I am not making it your fault for replying. I think you were a bit optimistic when you claimed she can win without her quads. I still gave her the benefit of doubt to see how she would do. She didn’t do nowhere near as great as you forecasted so I just pointed it out. You seem to think that you are always right, so of course it felt satisfying to point out that (for once) you were not.
 
hanca said:
I am not making it your fault for replying. I think you were a bit optimistic when you claimed she can win without her quads. I still gave her the benefit of doubt to see how she would do. She didn’t do nowhere near as great as you forecasted so I just pointed it out. You seem to think that you are always right, so of course it felt satisfying to point out that (for once) you were not.
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I didn't forecast anything. I said she could win after the Massimo Scali article and subsequent 'maybe he's delusional' posts, and she was in 2nd after the short, so guess what? She could've won. Mariah Bell could've won, too. A lot of skaters could win competitions if they would skate clean, such as Kolyada in the team event at Olympics. ?

Your argument is weak, and you're here just for the sake of drama. I was not going around declaring she would be the winner. Sorry.
 
tony said:
I didn't forecast anything. I said she could win after the Massimo Scali article and subsequent 'maybe he's delusional' posts, and she was in 2nd after the short, so guess what? She could've won. Mariah Bell could've won, too. A lot of skaters could win competitions if they would skate clean, such as Kolyada in the team event at Olympics. ?

Your argument is weak, and you're here just for the sake of drama. I was not going around declaring she would be the winner. Sorry.
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If you use this argument, you can also claim that Gracie Gold could win. All she needed is those 12 skaters who did better to withdraw... in theory, anyone can win.
 
hanca said:
If you use this argument, you can also claim that Gracie Gold could win. All she needed is those 12 skaters who did better to withdraw... in theory, anyone can win.
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Alysa was in 2nd place after the short, but sure. Throw out the entire field as possibilities for winner. You’re still going after me with a weak argument.
 
tony said:
Alysa was in 2nd place after the short, but sure. Throw out the entire field as possibilities for winner. You’re still going after me with a weak argument.
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You said she could win. Not that she could win but only in the SP. She is nearly 20 points below the winner, so it is not as if it was that close to her winning.
 
hanca said:
You said she could win. Not that she could win but only in the SP.
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I don't know if it's an English not being your first language barrier or you're extremely bored and hellbent trying to prove something that isn't there, but this is already going in circles.

Alysa was just outside the lead after the short. She made several big mistakes in the long, and still ended up with a medal, regardless whether it's only in the US or not. I never said anything about her only winning the SP. I never said she should or would win anything. I said she can win and absolutely was in a position to do so. I don't get what is so difficult to understand about that, but you're surely on a quest..

Pretty certain that it's logical to believe anyone within striking distance after a short program can indeed win a title, but I'm sure I'll hear all about being wrong from the expert herself.
 
I think Alysa looked a lot better without her pre-rotated quads and skid to a halt triple axel. She was faster, she covered more ice, and she had better skating skills this year. Now it looks like she’s competing at the same sport as the other women, and I was really impressed with her improvement! When I read that her coach said she could win without a triple axel or quads, I thought that was either hype or delusional— but although she didn’t win this competition, I can actually see why he said that. It looks to me like she’s playing the long game now, rather than the one hit wonder career trajectory. I’m glad for her because the US isn’t as competitive in tech as Russia or Japan, and Alysa could actually have time to develop her talent, maybe even regain her harder jumps with improved strength and speed. I finally saw her potential at this competition.
 
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