Was Mark Mitchell robbed?

[VGThuy]

This isn't to make an argument, but you're here pointing out that the Shibutani's were clearly the best team internationally and giving hypotheticals about the two others teams, although it had been a tight three-way race in the two months prior to the Olympics as far as who was leading US dancing, and somehow a team that either A) won Nationals over them or B) came within one point of them overall in two competitions in a row somehow isn't as safe of a choice as selecting Adam, who had his own mini meltdown at Nationals, for the mens LP in terms of 'we definitely need the strongest overall team'. Duhamel/Radford, Chan to an extent, and even Kolyada could've been considered outside medal favorites, and the former actually did win a medal/had a small chance at competing for gold. They aren't doing 5-6 quad free skates, but they had a quad of their own and they competed closer together than the men did. I blame the ISU for that anyways, which goes into the next point.

I think the truth was Chen did not want to do both the SP and LP for the Team Event and was concentrating on an individual medal (gold). The USFS also wanted to balance the interest in maximizing the team chances and maximizing their chance for an individual medal. And maybe they thought like you, especially after the SP, that the best the US could do was bronze. (However, if Chen skated lights out in the TE SP, and was within range of taking the silver away, then who knows? Maybe the USFS would have kept Chen in after persuading him to do it.) However, since that didn't happen, they had ot think about swapping out the men and thus...

I think it came down to Adam's BOW, he was seen as a safer choice to replace Chen in the LP than Miner. On paper, Zhou would have been a better choice due to his ability to rack up the TES. But he was untested, unseasoned, nearly lost the Olympic berth due to UR calls, and his PCS was a big disadvantage at the time. Adam really built up the reputation. I still think had Brown skated up to par he would have been the second man called and Miner would be on the Olympic team. I think the USFS wanted one of Brown/Rippon if they couldn't have both.

As for ice dance, don't forget, the Shibs had two seasons in establishing themselves and no other American team beat them overall at any international competition since the 2015-16 GPF. They were also the only American team that quad to beat P/C within a year at the 2016-17 GPF SD. They won both their GP events - and at one of those...it was over Bob/Sol "in Russia" (using Carol Lane voice). The Shibs also won both their GP events last season and were known to be very consistent to the point where they were consistently effectively permanently on that podium with V/M and P/C by the time Pyeongchang came around even if the actual competitions showed it wasn't easy for the Shibs to keep their fixture status on that third step.

As for the scores leading up to Pyeongchang, the Shibs also had a major error in the GPF FD and Maia nearly fell at Nationals to make those scores that close. It wasn't as if the all three skated cleanly and were within a point of one another by that point. However, overall, even with two FDs in a row where the Shibs made major mistakes to open the door for the other two, overall, they still had many less mistakes than the other two American teams. And even if all three teams were equal, then from a team selection standpoint, what did it matter that the Shibs would be replaced with one of the other in the FD? The result would be the same whether the Shibs did both or they swapped the Shibs out for either of the other two American teams, right? I actually find that last sentence debatable because I easily could see Chock/Bates losing to both Bob/Sol and Cappellini/Lanotte in either the SD or the FD or both as they did in the individual competition, and between the Shibs and H/D, I know which team had a bigger chance to place below either or both of Bob/Sol and Cap/Lan.

I'm sticking to my ice dance analysis above after being shut down during the ice dance 2018 Olympic PBP thread as to being wrong about the Shibs' bronze medal chances. I'll never get over that and I still remember who the posters were who were telling me how the Shibs had no chance. I was paying attention to the scores and trends, and past performances knew what was what and I bet the USFS had the same feelings as well even if they didn't actively take a stance in the three-way domestic battle for international medals.

Really, it was about whether Chen would do both (he wouldn't) and if it would have made a difference if Bradie was swapped out. I think if Bradie somehow placed like third or higher in the SP portion, she could have done both and thus ice dance could have been swapped, but I guess Bradie's placement made the USFS go ahead and go with the original plan and swap her out with Mirai thus taking a gamble with her potential 3A that actually paid off.

 

[Sylvia]

According to Adam's book, this is how the U.S. team event members were selected:

As the highest ranking of all the disciplines, the ice dancers, Maia and Alex Shibutani, got to pick first, and they decided they wanted to skate both programs to have more time in front of the judges. Nathan selected next, and his team decided he would skate in the short program only. He had a great chance to medal in the individual competition, and he was focused on that. The team chose the short program so he would have more time to rest before the individual competition.
...
Bradie Tennell, the lead women's skater, also only wanted to do the short program, so Mirai was also going to do the free skate along with me.

 

[tony]

^ It's hard to argue the point of the USFS personally selecting the strongest possibilities for a team event (which needed to include Rippon on an Olympic team to begin with) when the method outlined above put personal skaters' feeling about the team event as first consideration and also factored the world standings. While this was supposed to be used across the board, it didn't have to ultimately be, as we saw with Tanaka being chosen over Hanyu and Uno for the LP.

I'm still sticking by the idea that the USFS was not as hellbent on making sure they maxed out their teams that actually DID skate in the team event, and Rippon got his spot in that competition by virtue of his ranking. I mean, it's still win-win for Artunian as he gets two skaters with Olympic medals.

If the USFS was really serious about a gold or silver medal and/or 'every single point mattering', it wouldn't have been up to the skaters. JMO again. I still feel that the USFS was figuring they were in it for the bronze even before the SPs took place, and they maybe got a little nervous because of Italy's overall performance. Making sure every point mattered 'AFTER considering the feelings of individual athletes' is a completely different argument.

 

[VGThuy]

I read it was just skater's preference but the Fed ultimately had the final say. It ended up working out, but imagine, if all hell broke loose and the US was in contention for the gold medal somehow before the LP. I bet they have have tried to move away from the skaters' preference. Anyway, I do think the team event still HELPED Adam's selection. I'm not saying it was the only consideration, but I do think it was a consideration. The USFS got the pool they wanted to work with before they went with skater preference.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

When do teams have to notify of their swaps between the SP and LP.

Its also worth noting that Canada’s strategy of not making all swaps was seen as a pretty surprising and not necessarily fair to their team move in 2020. Their athletes who skated both portions were all in and had all agreed to do so but MANY people thought W/P were robbed of an Olympic gold medal. Saying the US could have just done what Canada did and not swapped is sort of rewriting history, because most people took it for granted that you’d use your swaps. Canada’s strategy wasn’t on the table yet.

But I think it’s silly to pretend that making sure they had a team they were comfortable with for the team event wasn’t a part of the calculation. There’s a big difference between saying “We’re going to let our top ranked skaters skate the Olympic program they want, which means we need someone behind Chen that we can count on in case he opts out of a segment, is injured, etc.” and “who cares about the team event, let’s just take anyone, the points don’t matter, no chance it’ll be close.”

 

[tony]

When do teams have to

Its also worth noting that Canada’s strategy of not making all swaps was seen as a pretty surprising and not necessarily fair to their team move in 2020. Their athletes who skated both portions were all in and had all agreed to do so but MANY people thought W/P were robbed of an Olympic gold medal. Saying the US could have just done what Canada did and not swapped is sort of rewriting history, because most people took it for granted that you’d use your swaps. Canada’s strategy wasn’t on the table yet.

But I think it’s silly to pretend that making sure they had a team they were comfortable with for the team event wasn’t a part of the calculation. There’s a big difference between saying “We’re going to let our top ranked skaters skate the Olympic program they want, which means we need someone behind Chen that we can count on in case he opts out of a segment, is injured, etc.” and “who cares about the team event, let’s just take anyone, the points don’t matter, no chance it’ll be close.”

First of all, Canada did swap. Daleman was given the LP as they wanted to give the National Champion an opportunity at team gold as well.

There's now the argument that letting all of their top athletes compete (which just so happened to be only one swap) is not fair to everyone else, but then we are talking about having the strongest possible team to fight for a medal, maybe more than bronze, at the same time. So do you want the strongest team or the most athletes included?

 

[VGThuy]

That's the dream...having the luxury to use all their swaps and not lose placements. Does anyone know why the ISU decided there can be two swaps per team as opposed to four?

 

[olympic]

Here is a random, more obscure and less dramatice substitution - Why did the USFSA sub in Elaine Zayak for Sandy Lenz at 80 Worlds? I remember 14 yr. old Elaine flooring the crowd w/ her triples at nationals and she was World Jr. Champ. Was it to give her a chance, put a promising skater on the road to stardom or was Sandy injured or something? Coincidentally, the DDR made the same move for Witt at the same competition (no Olympics, but Worlds).

 

[miffy]

I agree with moving the team event to the end, and I also think if they won’t make the FP count for more they should just skate one programme, it’s so pointless and barely matters who skates in the free! Surely they can see that? Why have a free that effectively counts for less than the short?

 

[tony]

I agree with moving the team event to the end, and I also think if they won’t make the FP count for more they should just skate one programme, it’s so pointless and barely matters who skates in the free! Surely they can see that? Why have a free that effectively counts for less than the short?

It wasn't going to make a difference in the results as applied to the skaters/standings that actually competed, but it DOES give countries like Japan and even Italy a fighting chance for a medal if they were to always send the strongest team into both portions, rather than using someone like Tanaka as they knew it likely didn't matter at that point (because of other disciplines). 10 points for Japan in the mens LP goes a lot further when Russia is potentially getting 4, rather than 10 and 7.

Remember, the standings after the short were:
Canada 35
Russia 31
USA 29
Italy 26
Japan 26

Japan or Italy would've still lost to Canada even if they swept 1st place in each discipline in the LP and Canada finished 3rd in each. Not that it was ever going to happen like that, but a 10-8-6-4-2 system would've meant Japan ends up with 66 in the end, and Canada 59 under that same hypothetical. That makes it a lot more exciting knowing there's actually a fighting chance for ALL teams.

That, or the slate just gets wiped clean after the SP and the qualifiers are announced. It'll never ever happen, but the event could also be a lot of fun if all 10 countries got to skate both programs.

 

[Erin]

Here is a random, more obscure and less dramatice substitution - Why did the USFSA sub in Elaine Zayak for Sandy Lenz at 80 Worlds? I remember 14 yr. old Elaine flooring the crowd w/ her triples at nationals and she was World Jr. Champ. Was it to give her a chance, put a promising skater on the road to stardom or was Sandy injured or something? Coincidentally, the DDR made the same move for Witt at the same competition (no Olympics, but Worlds).

Skate Canada did the same thing with Tracey Wainman too in 1980, sending her to Worlds while Heather Kemkaran went to the Olympics. In that case, my recollection is that the age rules were expected to change and Skate Canada was sending her to make sure she was grandfathered if the rule change went through, or else she wouldn’t have been eligible for 1981 Worlds. However, I doubt that was the reason for sending Zayak and Witt, as they are two years older than Wainman.

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Zayak was sent to get her experience for the future, and Lenz wasn’t happy about being dumped for Worlds, but I am really fuzzy on that one.

 

[olympic]

Skate Canada did the same thing with Tracey Wainman too in 1980, sending her to Worlds while Heather Kemkaran went to the Olympics. In that case, my recollection is that the age rules were expected to change and Skate Canada was sending her to make sure she was grandfathered if the rule change went through, or else she wouldn’t have been eligible for 1981 Worlds. However, I doubt that was the reason for sending Zayak and Witt, as they are two years older than Wainman.

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Zayak was sent to get her experience for the future, and Lenz wasn’t happy about being dumped for Worlds, but I am really fuzzy on that one.

OK. For some reason, I thought it was a mutually agreed substitution: Lenz was happy to bow out

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Skate Canada did the same thing with Tracey Wainman too in 1980, sending her to Worlds while Heather Kemkaran went to the Olympics. In that case, my recollection is that the age rules were expected to change and Skate Canada was sending her to make sure she was grandfathered if the rule change went through, or else she wouldn’t have been eligible for 1981 Worlds. However, I doubt that was the reason for sending Zayak and Witt, as they are two years older than Wainman.

I vaguely recall reading somewhere that Zayak was sent to get her experience for the future, and Lenz wasn’t happy about being dumped for Worlds, but I am really fuzzy on that one.

Interesting that in 1981, Lenz was injured and Lisa Marie Allen fumbled her triple salchow and dropped to third in the USA. I remember Peggy Fleming's post-skate interview with Allen being quite blunt about her future eligible prospects, too. (Personally, I would have still picked her over Priscilla Hill. Hill's triples, such as they were, always looked so shaky)

I wonder if Elaine hadn't been sent to the 1980 World Championships, if she would have had as much momentum going into the event for 1981? Although, beating Claudia Kristofics-Binder (who placed 5th in Dortmund) at Skate Canada 1980 and taking the 1981 US National Title, must have built her stock.

 

[VGThuy]

I’ve read that Lisa Marie Allen left eligible skating very angry at the way the USFS treated her. I looked her up and her performances at 1978 US nationals and Worlds were quite amazing to watch. Nationals was slightly more impressive because she ended the program with a double lutz/double loop combo. Her Ina Bauer to double axel to the crescendo of Spartacus makes her program look quite modern.

I was also curious to see what Priscilla Hill’s skating looked like and she seriously was a beautiful and stylish skater. Shame about her jumps.

Not to be mean, but with skaters of the above two qualities, I can’t believe Fratianne was the best we got by 1980. Hill I get because her jumps just weren’t there, but I guess Allen couldn’t compete with Fratianne’s jumps as well.

Btw, funny how to skaters competing for world and Olympic spots had Elvis-related names.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I’ve read that Lisa Marie Allen left eligible skating very angry at the way the USFS treated her. I looked her up and her performances at 1978 US nationals and Worlds were quite amazing to watch. Nationals was slightly more impressive because she ended the program with a double lutz/double loop combo. Her Ina Bauer to double axel to the crescendo of Spartacus makes her program look quite modern.

I was also curious to see what Priscilla Hill’s skating looked like and she seriously was a beautiful and stylish skater. Shame about her jumps.

Not to be mean, but with skaters of the above two qualities, I can’t believe Fratianne was the best we got by 1980. Hill I get because her jumps just weren’t there, but I guess Allen couldn’t compete with Fratianne’s jumps as well.

Btw, funny how to skaters competing for world and Olympic spots had Elvis-related names.

I'll need to track the interview with Linda down, but even though her technical level was the same since 1976, Fratianne herself wanted to continue evolving and do more. I believe she had other triples in her repertoire, but the powers that be felt she didn't need them. Too bad, because a performance like the one Denise Biellmann gave in Lake Placid, could have clinched Linda the title.

 

[bardtoob]

Not to be mean, but with skaters of the above two qualities, I can’t believe Fratianne was the best we got by 1980. Hill I get because her jumps just weren’t there, but I guess Allen couldn’t compete with Fratianne’s jumps as well.

Lisa's figures were good for Nationals but not for International competition.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

First of all, Canada did swap. Daleman was given the LP as they wanted to give the National Champion an opportunity at team gold as well.

Nowhere did I say they didn’t swap. I said they didn’t use all their swaps.

 

[tony]

Nowhere did I say they didn’t swap. I said they didn’t use all their swaps.

It's fine, only read the first half. And then I asked you: are you siding with the idea that countries need to compete for the gold (or any medal) and send their best possible teams, or are you trying to hand participation points to as many athletes as you can based on the concept that all teams can substitute up to two entries (if they have them)?

W/P were not assured of a top placement in the FD-- more realistically they could've been as low as 4th behind the US, Russia, and Italy (falling in line with individual results), which loses Canada 3 points and gives Russia one more point. Since it was the very last event, that's a whole lot of banking on Chan winning the LP and Daleman doing as well as she did.

Canada needed every last point it could get, and with France having almost zero chance at making the team final, V/M were pretty much a guaranteed 10 points. Throwing W/P in wouldn't have been smart.

 

[Coco]

When selecting their Olympic team, the team event certainly makes the United States more wary of the skater's potential downside.

There's no telling who will be healthy enough to skate the team event, and you can see how USFSA would want to stay away from someone most likely to lay a ginormous egg.

I do think that when they have three spots in a discipline, one spot should be reserved for the best up and comer, assuming that skater achieves a high enough level. This would make things more transparent.

Apparently there was discussion about putting the team event at the end of the olympics, but NBC wanted ladies in the first week. The ISU would not rearrange the order of the disciplines, so that meant the team event would be in the first week.

It totally belongs at the end and would be so much more exciting if qualification to the team event was based on the results of the individual disciplines.

They they could take the top eight countries, (most Olympic finals have 8 competitors) and not eliminate anyone between SP and FS/FD. This would make results less predictable as some countries would play spoilers in some disciplines.

Think of all the redemption story lines!

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

To make the team that night, fair or not, Mitchell would have had to land both his triple axel (which he did) and his triple-triple (which he did not). I think he knew this, because he was disappointed right after his free.

How frustrating for Mark.

I remember on the morning before the final, Mark skated a perfect free skate run-through including both the triple axel and the triple flip-triple toe loop.

I don't think Bowman attempted one triple axel all week, either. Wylie, true to his reputation as a practice skater, was always on during rehearsals.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

It totally belongs at the end and would be so much more exciting if qualification to the team event was based on the results of the individual disciplines.

That's why the World Team Trophy is always such good value, when a country's qualification is based on that year's world championships results.

Such a shame it probably won't be on this year.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

It's fine, only read the first half. And then I asked you: are you siding with the idea that countries need to compete for the gold (or any medal) and send their best possible teams, or are you trying to hand participation points to as many athletes as you can based on the concept that all teams can substitute up to two entries (if they have them)?

Why should I read your post when you clearly didn’t read mine? I didn’t respond to that question because it’s completely irrelevant to the conversation. I’m not here discussing what people should do in the team event. I’m discussing the conditions that led to the selection of the 2018 team. In 2018, no one had used Canada’s strategy before and a lot of people were shocked by their choice. So USFSA wasn’t operating in a situation where using fewer subs was a strategy that had been used to win. They were coming in with only 2014 in the history books and in 2014, all teams who competed in the FS used both subs. USFSA may not have had using fewer subs in order to maximize points on their minds because no one was doing it. So while yes, they technically could have used the strategy Canada used, they would have had to come up with it, which we don’t know that they had.

 

[tony]

Why should I read your post when you clearly didn’t read mine? I didn’t respond to that question because it’s completely irrelevant to the conversation. I’m not here discussing what people should do in the team event. I’m discussing the conditions that led to the selection of the 2018 team. In 2018, no one had used Canada’s strategy before and a lot of people were shocked by their choice. So USFSA wasn’t operating in a situation where using fewer subs was a strategy that had been used to win. They were coming in with only 2014 in the history books and in 2014, all teams who competed in the FS used both subs. USFSA may not have had using fewer subs in order to maximize points on their minds because no one was doing it. So while yes, they technically could have used the strategy Canada used, they would have had to come up with it, which we don’t know that they had.

Your post makes zero sense. You came to say 'MANY people' thought W/P were shafted out of a gold medal, when the discussion up to that point had been, in part, that Canada really wanted the gold and they equipped their team for what they thought was the best way to get to it. If you think that W/P were going to win the free dance or the short dance and that Canada predicted they'd finish as strong in every other discipline, then okay. But by trying to argue this whole thing about so many people not liking the very strategy that gave them gold, you're making it sound like they had 1st place locked up to begin with and that W/P should've been thrown in just because. You know that's not the case. So maybe you could point that out to all of said people.

And I don't know what parts of the thread you're reading, but Sylvia pointed out (via Adam's book) that the strategy used by the USFS wasn't particularly a strategy at all- sorry to say. They asked the highest-ranked skater(s) what they would personally like to do, and then worked their way down from that. So, guess what? Under that 'logic', had Nathan or Bradie said they wanted to skate both programs, then we would've seen the exact same scenario as Canada had.

 

[caseyedwards]

Here is a random, more obscure and less dramatice substitution - Why did the USFSA sub in Elaine Zayak for Sandy Lenz at 80 Worlds? I remember 14 yr. old Elaine flooring the crowd w/ her triples at nationals and she was World Jr. Champ. Was it to give her a chance, put a promising skater on the road to stardom or was Sandy injured or something? Coincidentally, the DDR made the same move for Witt at the same competition (no Olympics, but Worlds).

The article I just read said that there was a belief that Zayak always should have been third. That she wasn’t because of fear that while gymnastics embraced young technical talents figure skating didn’t really! So the traditionalists got lenz on the Olympic team and then gave zayak worlds

Jan 22, 1980, page 26 - The Record at Newspapers.com - Newspapers.com

View the digital scanned newspaper from The Record dated Jan 22, 1980, page 26.

www.newspapers.com

 

[tony]

It totally belongs at the end and would be so much more exciting if qualification to the team event was based on the results of the individual disciplines.

They they could take the top eight countries, (most Olympic finals have 8 competitors) and not eliminate anyone between SP and FS/FD. This would make results less predictable as some countries would play spoilers in some disciplines.

Think of all the redemption story lines!

While an interesting situation, it wouldn't work out as well as expected. There are countries who place one or two skaters with great results and then don't have skaters competing in other disciplines- so they are an automatic no. If I'm remembering correctly, only Great Britain in 2014 and Israel in 2018 have had to use the team wildcard spot so that they could fill out a whole team to skate the SP of the event and then be eliminated. Korea also used the wildcard host country pick to get a full roster in the individual competition.

Japan, China, USA, Russia, Canada, Italy, France would almost be locks each and every Olympic cycle because these countries tend to have full rosters and sometimes multiples of each, and at least two of their entries place high. Of course we can't predict the future, but not much has changed in terms of those countries being powerhouses in a very long time. So having 8 teams means there's really a fight for one spot, at least IMO.

Having 10 entries using a points system gives more chance to the GBRs and the ISRs, even if there is little chance for them to qualify to to finals.

 

[Coco]

So use the current qualification process as a preliminary qualification process to identify any countries that need a wild card spot to get a complete roster.

Then those wild card entries compete in the individual discipline.

Also, if we're only having eight finalists and not 10 the chances that eight countries wouldn't have entries in each of the four disciplines is fairly slim. But you would need some kind of means of making sure there were at least eight countries with entrance in each of the four disciplines.

OR... results are determined using a country's three most successful disciplines. A country will still have an advantage if they can qualify competitors in each of the four disciplines, but if a country doesn't have a pair or a dance team they wouldn't be eliminated.

 

[tony]

So use the current qualification process as a preliminary qualification process to identify any countries that need a wild card spot to get a complete roster.

Then those wild card entries compete in the individual discipline.

Also, if we're only having eight finalists and not 10 the chances that eight countries wouldn't have entries in each of the four disciplines is fairly slim. But you would need some kind of means of making sure there were at least eight countries with entrance in each of the four disciplines.

OR... results are determined using a country's three most successful disciplines. A country will still have an advantage if they can qualify competitors in each of the four disciplines, but if a country doesn't have a pair or a dance team they wouldn't be eliminated.

Let's use Spain as an example. They had Fernandez as an obvious frontrunner in 2018, but they couldn't fill out an entire team because they didn't have a pair or lady qualified. If we were to imagine Fernandez (and Montoya) were still going for 2022 and that a pair would indeed qualify along with dancers, then a lady could be added as a wildcard.

What is likely to happen? Spain will be way out of it after the short, whether keeping all 8/10 teams or narrowing it down to 5 and somehow they get in, and then I'd say there's a huge chance at seeing Felipe Montoya in the LP because it essentially means nothing - that's what Japan did in 2018 with the men. What does that then do? Gives 'everyone a chance' but it pushes the top teams even further away from the pack. I can't see someone like Fernandez begging to skate an LP, especially with a moronic scoring system, if Spain is way out of it in the SP. Same for Savchenko/Massot if Germany would've scraped into the final 5 in 2018.

What I'm getting at with all of this is I have a feeling that the more teams there are, even if the event happens after the top skaters' big individual event moments, it's going to be difficult to get a really serious competition aside from the 3 or 4 favorites for medals, which still creates a blow-out.

Of course, the ISU could always change the scoring procedure to make it a little more interesting AND more importantly so that the top names don't give up after the first portion of the competition. Maybe starting from scratch in the LP really is the way to go. Only counting three of the four disciplines isn't the way to go though, IMO, and I don't think skaters lucky enough to come from powerhouse nations should be gifted an Olympic entry into the individual event. The ISU already changed the Olympic qual procedure so that 2nd & 3rd-ranked skaters from countries with huge stars don't automatically get handed the spot- they actually have to earn it at Nebelhorn now, too, if they aren't at the previous Worlds or don't place high enough.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Talk about so many tangents.

Mark was indeed robbed...of this thread!

Not that I am helping matters. But, who knew there was a dancer skating for Canada at around the same time also called Mark Mitchell?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMglg7IoVag

 

[Plusdinfo]

What a question from Julie Moran after Paul Wylie skated his 1992 Nationals free skate! "Paul, should you not make this Olympic team do you feel in any way these last four years of hard work have been a waste of time?" No other questions, just that!

Bringing it back to Mark: what were his strongest/weakest jumps?

 

[Erin]

Bringing it back to Mark: what were his strongest/weakest jumps?

I always liked Mark’s triple loop. I suspect he did too, as it was his jump out of footwork in the short program. He got a lot of height, distance, and flow on it.

The triple axel was always a struggle for him. Even when he landed it, it wasn’t super clean. For example, at 1993 Worlds, he was very squirrelly on the landing and had a bad toe-axel after it.