Bellanca
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,301
The Memmel comeback is inspirational to see. The atmosphere in the gym is upbeat and fun - love this!
Gymnastic news #22 - Tokyo or bust
- Thread starter Aceon6
- Start date
- Status
Doggygirl
Banned Member
- Messages
- 11,107
It's refreshing to have an inside look at a mature woman enjoying gymnastics in what appears to be a healthy and fun environment. And while we are watching Chelsie, we also get to see various young students seeming to have fun in this healthy environment. Maybe there is hope....
Bellanca
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,301
There should always be an enjoyment component and expectation of a positive experience for the athlete to warrant their participation in any given sport. When that gets taken away by abusive coaches, abusive environments, etc., and athletes end up in a hospital battling eating disorders, physical or psychological trauma, for example, that is when mandatory change is required. Sadly, greed, control, and mentally unstable, nefarious characters found their way into gymnastics and sports beyond. That's why I believe Chellsie's documented comeback is very helpful in reminding everyone that it is still possible to enjoy, have faith in, and hope for a healthy sport once again, which should have never been in doubt.
FiveRinger
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 8,571
Just a bump to remind you all it’s on Amazon Prime Video starting today. Thanks for the reminder, Twitter.
VGThuy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 41,180
I read somewhere that Liu Xuan never collected the AA bronze because she didn't think she earned it. It probably helped that she had her own team bronze (at the time before it was stripped) and her own individual gold medal to keep her happy.
alexikeguchi
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,236
I just got through watching. Andreea seems really well adjusted in general and seemed at least through the time of filming to be close to Octavian Belu and Mariana Bitang. However, she doesn't appear to have completely moved on from not formally being recognized as the Olympic all around champion. I sympathize with her to a great extent, but I feel that Svetlana Khorkina has just as much justification for being considered the champion due to her top standing in the qualifying round and the cluster* that was the all around final in Sydney. Khorkina was interviewed for this documentary as well and also seems to hang on to profound disappointment. I don't care for her recent pronouncements in general, but I think she is right in this regard. Overall, the documentary just made me very sad that these young girls give up their childhood, sacrifice so much, and are then treated as just interchangeable parts by their federations and the Olympic Committee. There really does need to be more advocacy for the athletes in the sports with so many minor age competitors.
All Around Cluster*** would be a good title for a documentary about the women's AA final.
Somebody put together a montage of all the falls in the women's AA vault and the crashes were terrifying. That so many of the women got up and finished the competition is amazing. Khorkina, Elise Ray were even in the top 10 or 12 after bad falls. I think there was a British girl among the vault crashes. Was it Lisa Mason? She looked to be in agony. Her ankle or foot was crunched.
Erin
Banned Member
- Messages
- 10,470
Ray chose to vault again, so her crash wasn't counted, except to the extent that it impacted the rest of her competition. She finished 14th (13th after Raducan's disqualification) with her re-vault score of 9.487. Her original score of 7.618 would have put her in last place.
Lisa Mason was the British gymnast who had a bad fall. She also chose to re-vault. The BBC coverage of the re-vaults is on YouTube, so you can see who opted to go again:
2000 Olympics Women's AA Part 17
2000 Olympics Gymnastics Women's AA (BBC): Jana Kmorskova VT (Provided by MostepanovaFan)
www.youtube.com
2000 Olympics Women's AA Part 18
2000 Olympics Gymnastics Women's AA (BBC): Lisa Mason VT, Elise Ray VT, Sara Moro VT, Halyna Tyryk VT(Provided by MostepanovaFan)
www.youtube.com
Another thing with Sydney that has basically been forgotten because it's been overshadowed by the vault issue, but the floor was terrible. A lot of gymnasts had falls and out of bounds in prelims especially, but there were some weird problems in the team final (most of the Chinese team going out of bounds) and the AA final too (Zamo, Karpenko, Yvonne Tousek).
Last edited:
FiveRinger
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 8,571
Maggie Haney Allegedly Coaching Despite Suspension
I realize her suspension is only with USA Gymnastics, but the reports are still alarming, especially the way that she is being paid and the fact that she is leading training sessions in the parking lot of her old gym. No shame at all.
I realize her suspension is only with USA Gymnastics, but the reports are still alarming, especially the way that she is being paid and the fact that she is leading training sessions in the parking lot of her old gym. No shame at all.
Karina1974
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,393
She looked fine in London, once she started pulling back the greasy-looking bangs she wore at the '11 World's. But I've seen much sloppier hair on other gymnasts, like that messy bun look.
Doggygirl
Banned Member
- Messages
- 11,107
DCFS should be called on the parents of these girls who are allowing their children to train with a banned coach!Maggie Haney Allegedly Coaching Despite Suspension
I realize her suspension is only with USA Gymnastics, but the reports are still alarming, especially the way that she is being paid and the fact that she is leading training sessions in the parking lot of her old gym. No shame at all.
Bellanca
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,301
...currently the quarantine/lockdown hairstyle.
Yes! Annika Reeder is the right name.
I had never seen the full coverage the re-vaults. NBC only showed Elise Ray going again.
Astounded at the valiant athleticism on display. I am sure these gymnasts and their federations were unhappy with their overall finishes but I hope they know how awesome they are. They did their best in a rotten situation.
Karina1974
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,393
When did they show Elise revaulting? I have all the prime-time coverage of the women's competition, and that only shows her original vaults.
VGThuy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 41,180
I remember reading a post joking about it and saying it was an inside job by the Aussies and how fishy it was that Alana Slater was the one to catch it.
It's a long time ago now. My mind could be playing tricks. Maybe there was a brief clip in later coverage (the event finals?). But I somehow gleaned that Elise Ray did choose to vault again and improved her AA placem
ent.
FiveRinger
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 8,571
Defying Gravity
Another gymnastics docuseries. This one is airing on YouTube. It's following stars we know, past and present. Debuts on September 21. Can’t wait.
Another gymnastics docuseries. This one is airing on YouTube. It's following stars we know, past and present. Debuts on September 21. Can’t wait.
FiveRinger
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 8,571
Jordyn Wieber Refuses to Attend Hall of Fame Induction
I meant to post this last week. Here it is for those who haven’t seen this. I don’t blame her. It’s really a shame. I won’t comment about VKF’s behavior being referred to here, except to say that she’s a lot.
I meant to post this last week. Here it is for those who haven’t seen this. I don’t blame her. It’s really a shame. I won’t comment about VKF’s behavior being referred to here, except to say that she’s a lot.
danafan
Canadian ladies über
- Messages
- 10,230
NBC didn't show any of the re-vaults during the AA coverage. They did show the coaches being asked if their athletes wanted to vault again, and Kelli Hill saying that Elise Ray would be vaulting again.
ETA Ray did vault again and significantly increased her score with a 9.487 average.
VGThuy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 41,180
I wasn’t personally affected by VKF but reading her sanctimonious quotes after reading how she abused another gymnast made me so angry. I can only imagine what survivors feel when they see their abusers being quoted and celebrated as heroes.
I had never realized before now that Reeder hurt herself punching on the springboard rather than on the landing.
Theatregirl1122
Needs a nap
- Messages
- 34,201
Interesting that Jordyn never once mentions VKF in this article. VKF brings herself into it.
Coco
Rotating while Russian!
- Messages
- 19,222
Well I'm sure they coordinated their availability for the article. Those two are pretty tight.
I don't know the best way to articulate this, but I feel that going forward with regards to the topic of abuse in women's gymnastics, it would be helpful to have a glossary.
What VKF did to Alyssa and others, I wouldn't label it abuse. It seems to fall under the umbrella of manipulative, passive aggressive mean girl sh!t.
It is an important story and I'm glad Alyssa spoke up, but....the more stories like this get told, I feel it will dilute the takeaway that physically abusive coaches and criminal behavior by coaches are known and tolerated by parents, administrators and police.
I don't know the best way to articulate this, but I feel that going forward with regards to the topic of abuse in women's gymnastics, it would be helpful to have a glossary.
What VKF did to Alyssa and others, I wouldn't label it abuse. It seems to fall under the umbrella of manipulative, passive aggressive mean girl sh!t.
It is an important story and I'm glad Alyssa spoke up, but....the more stories like this get told, I feel it will dilute the takeaway that physically abusive coaches and criminal behavior by coaches are known and tolerated by parents, administrators and police.
VGThuy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 41,180
I find that to be pretty abusive actually. IMO, emotional, psychological, and mental abuse is absolutely traumatic and harmful. Physical abuse always has a component of the above abuse, so that goes without saying. I don't think recognizing that sort of abuse dilutes physical abuse but rather helps us recognize all the forms it takes and if anything, makes physical abuse even more jarring because it's like another line that was crossed in behavior that already crossed lines. I also think it'll help us recognize signs and red flags better. Again, what got me was after Alyssa's story and others, seeing VKF sell herself as some savior/white knight and then using an example of Geddert "abandoning" Wieber after she realized she didn't qualify for the AA final (even though the article mentions he did come back). She made his "abandonment" such a huge issue, and maybe it was - depends on how Wieber sees it - and that's not physical abuse either but more emotional abandonment and at-worst mind games (like what the Karyolis did to Moceanu after she outlived her usefulness for them in Atlanta).
Coco
Rotating while Russian!
- Messages
- 19,222
It absolutely is very harmful. I wasn't saying it wasn't harmful, although I see how my post could be read that way.
In terms of maintaining public interest and outrage in the larger story, I think we need to keep people focused on behavior that can be sanctioned according to rules and regs already on the books.
There is an immediate need to protect kids and teenagers from criminal behavior and create a culture where criminal behavior is responded to appropriately.
Protecting athletes, included young adults (NCAA) from toxic environments is a longer conversation.
I don't think it's possible to simultaneously get action on gyms that assault their athletes, deny them emergency medical care, send them on trips with pedophiles and kiddie porn producers, etc. AND change the entire coaching culture.
The male version of what VKF did happens everyday on prominent male professional sports teams. Everyone knows about it and no one cares, sadly. This behavior is even glorified to some degree and athletes who retaliate are viewed as "problems."
It offends my ?? wave feminist self if female athletes are seen as delicate or more deserving of protection. No athlete should have to deal with this emotional abuse. Frankly, it is amazing it persists at the professional level because adults don't thrive under this type of coaching. But it does persist.
Are the two problems related? They totally are. But we are already seeing significant backlash, coupled with sports federations dragging their feet about sanctioning criminal behavior. VKF has been publically critical of the negative aspects of elite gymnastics since 2000. She has accomplished amazing things with regards to bringing abuse to light. She is also vainglorious and nasty towards athletes who don't do what she wants. I don't think either of these things negates the other.
In terms of maintaining public interest and outrage in the larger story, I think we need to keep people focused on behavior that can be sanctioned according to rules and regs already on the books.
There is an immediate need to protect kids and teenagers from criminal behavior and create a culture where criminal behavior is responded to appropriately.
Protecting athletes, included young adults (NCAA) from toxic environments is a longer conversation.
I don't think it's possible to simultaneously get action on gyms that assault their athletes, deny them emergency medical care, send them on trips with pedophiles and kiddie porn producers, etc. AND change the entire coaching culture.
The male version of what VKF did happens everyday on prominent male professional sports teams. Everyone knows about it and no one cares, sadly. This behavior is even glorified to some degree and athletes who retaliate are viewed as "problems."
It offends my ?? wave feminist self if female athletes are seen as delicate or more deserving of protection. No athlete should have to deal with this emotional abuse. Frankly, it is amazing it persists at the professional level because adults don't thrive under this type of coaching. But it does persist.
Are the two problems related? They totally are. But we are already seeing significant backlash, coupled with sports federations dragging their feet about sanctioning criminal behavior. VKF has been publically critical of the negative aspects of elite gymnastics since 2000. She has accomplished amazing things with regards to bringing abuse to light. She is also vainglorious and nasty towards athletes who don't do what she wants. I don't think either of these things negates the other.
floskate
Vacant
- Messages
- 9,944
I'd like to know on what authority you seem to be able to tell us what does and does not constitute abuse? As someone whose life has been completely derailed because of the emotional abuse I suffered while enduring so-called professional theatre training - and I'm male btw - I find this post rude, insensitive, ignorant and completely tone deaf. And if you consider vindictive, pre-planned behaviour designed to inflict the maximum hurt on a vulnerable young adult while in a position of considerable power and influence as "mean girl shit" then maybe you should take a closer look at yourself and your own values.
FFS!
VGThuy
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 41,180
I think many sports are recognizing harm to young boys/men. I think it's part of a long-term hope that we get rid of toxic masculinity and conditioning boys to eat their feelings. IMO, we want to keep recognizing harm and conditioned abuse in all its facets, not ignore one just because there might be a backlash from people who probably didn't even care much about the physical and sexual abuse in the first place.
Coco
Rotating while Russian!
- Messages
- 19,222
The same authority anyone has to post anything.
I'm very sorry to hear that.
I see abuse and "mean girl shit" as two different problems requiring two different solutions. I wouldn't (and didn't say) that "mean girl shit" wasn't horrible or wasn't serious.
There is a difference between 1) a coach cruelly ostracizing a member of her team and 2) a coach forcibly dragging someone into a bathroom to cut their hair or literally forcing them to do a skill they don't have without a spot resulting in a skull fracture or refusing medical assistance after they tear their achilles or denying them crutches for 2 days if they sprain both ankles while at the Karolyi Ranch.
Whatever collective outrage that existed in the general public's response to USA Gymnastics' handling of Larry Nassar seems to have dissipated without significant changes made that could prevent it happening again. We are now relying on a community of gymnastics coaches to make the necessary changes.
floskate
Vacant
- Messages
- 9,944
But what are you basing it on? Do you actually know anything about trauma and abuse or are you just expressing an opinion? And if it's the latter, based on what exactly?
That mean girl shit IS abuse. Your apparent difficulty in recognising it as such just enables it to carry on and for more people's lives to be destroyed as a result. It also discourages people from speaking out because people like you will just seek to minimise their experience because it doesn't suit your narrative for whatever reason. Why are you trying to minimise it? And there is NO one size fits all solution to any of this.
I never suggested for a minute that there wasn't. Abuse is abuse and it comes in many different forms, but again, based on what experience are you seemingly able to tell people who have been abused that one form of abuse is worse than another? Alyssa's experience is what she will have to continue to deal with for the rest of her life. No one has any right whatsoever to try and diminish that experience by placing it in a different context by comparing it with something that is more socially accepted as abuse. We have NO idea of what she continues to deal with on a daily basis because of what VKF did to her.
- Status
