Just call me Harry. (Everything Harry & Meghan)

[taf2002]

I keep reading that H&M didn't contribute to the book but some posters here keep blaming them for items in the book. WTF? And she DID give up her previous life. Hopefully it was worth it to her but that doesn't mean that her life isn't really changed, and not all the changes are for the better. My Canadian husband can be said to have given up his Canadian life when he married a US citizen. Here we are 35 yrs later - maybe he doesn't regret it but that doesn't keep him from feeling nostalgic sometimes.

 

[Vagabond]

I keep reading that H&M didn't contribute to the book but some posters here keep blaming them for items in the book. WTF?

What is the matter with you this weekend?

1. Harry and Meghan told their friends things about how Harry's family and their staff treated them. If they weren't prepared for word to get out (and potentially come back to bite them), then they should have kept quiet or chosen better friends. But they didn't.

2. The authors asked Harry and Meghan to give interviews, and they declined. It follows that they were aware that of the book when it was being written. At this point, Harry and Meghan could have asked their friends to follow their example. Either they didn't ask, or their friends don't care what Harry and Meghan thought.

And she DID give up her previous life. Hopefully it was worth it to her but that doesn't mean that her life isn't really changed, and not all the changes are for the better.

True. I empathize with her, but it seems like Harry didn't do a good job of preparing her for what was to come. That could be his fault, but it could be hers too.

 

[Winnipeg]

They should have lived among the royals before getting married. Give her a chance to see what it would really be like. She could have lived in UK and dated Harry from there for awhile right in the middle of the attention, press etc attended royal functions as his date etc

 

[taf2002]

What is the matter with you this weekend?

What's the matter with me is all the people who think H&M should have done things differently, i.e. what THEY say should have been done. How do you know any of the details of the book are what they told their friends & not made up? How do you know H&M didn't tell their friends not to talk? You don't know. My problem is all the assuming going on. And now
Winnipeg is an expert on how they should have lived their life. All the posts on what they should have done sound pretty smug. Who here thinks they would have done better at the time, without knowing how it would turn out?

 

[starrynight]

I think Meghan is one of those people who believes she can and ought to singlehandedly change the world.

While it sounds nice in theory, people like that can often be quite unyielding to anyone with a different perspective.

 

[ballettmaus]

And she DID give up her previous life.

No one is denying that she did. And yes, the becoming a royal required her to give up that life. But she chose to become a royal. No one forced her to. And that is exactly why it would have been a smart idea to take some time and make sure that this is really what she wants.
Now, maybe she thought she was okay with it all and then realized that she wasn't. It happens and that's okay. Regardless, it remains her decisions, that she alone is responsible for.

 

[Vagabond]

What's the matter with me is all the people who think H&M should have done things differently, i.e. what THEY say should have been done.

It sure looks like H&M screwed things up pretty badly, so it's not unreasonable for people to suppose that some other strategy would have worked better. Of course, none of us knows the full story, but this is FSU for goodness' sake. If we can't opine here, where can we do so?

How do you know any of the details of the book are what they told their friends & not made up?

Professional journalists who make things up that are easily disprovable don't remain professional journalists very long, and H&M haven't denied anything in the book.

Who here thinks they would have done better at the time, without knowing how it would turn out?

We all make mistakes, but most people learn that one reason not to blab things about others because doing so makes them look worse than whomever they are blabbing about. So probably most people here, I would imagine. ?‍

 

[Vagabond]

 

[taf2002]

We all make mistakes, but most people learn that one reason not to blab things about others because doing so makes them look worse than whomever they are blabbing about. So probably most people here, I would imagine. ?‍

So according to you when she left everything familiar & entered what was (to her) a hostile environment she also should not have been able to vent to her close friends. How very keep-a-stiff-upper-lip of you. She probably does regret trusting the wrong people but I imagine we've all been there.

 

[puglover]

I will never really agree with the airing of family grievances. Especially after such a relatively short time trying to be a family - with two pregnant women, two new babies, and the never relenting vile press. Relationships take years to build with a large degree of patience and tolerance added to the mix. In many ways they operate a family business that employs everyone to some degree or another and that causes added reasons for discord. Two of my SILs work for family businesses, one as an owner, and one as the grandson of the owner, and each automatically comes with friction and issues that affect the wives and family at large. I think this book is unlikely to change much of the public's opinion at this point and only deepen the family rift. The Queen has always shown such love for and pride in her family - I feel for her!!

 

[VGThuy]

The Queen has always shown such love for and pride in her family - I feel for her!!

And sometimes much to her and their detriment and at the expense of others.

 

[MsZem]

So according to you when she left everything familiar & entered what was (to her) a hostile environment she also should not have been able to vent to her close friends. How very keep-a-stiff-upper-lip of you. She probably does regret trusting the wrong people but I imagine we've all been there.

It's possible that Meghan trusted the wrong people - no fault of hers if so. It's also possible that she's fine with her friends leaking certain stories; if that's the case, it does not reflect well on her. Who can say? None of us know her.

And sometimes much to her and their detriment and at the expense of others.

Yes, QEII has made mistakes in her life. Except, having been in the public eye for over ninety years and in service to her country since she was a teenager, some of her mistakes are well-known to us all.

I wonder if in some ways she sees in Harry's decision an abdication of duty. Not that she'd ever say such a thing.

 

[MacMadame]

I wonder if in some ways she sees in Harry's decision an abdication of duty. Not that she'd ever say such a thing.

I'm going to guess she does. But, if so, it's not really logical. Because Charles was talking about slimming down the senior royals and Meghan and Harry would most certainly have been demoted at some point. Also, H+M were talking about keeping some royal duties and it's the Firm that made that impossible. Doesn't mean it doesn't feel like abdictaion of duty to her.

All over the world, countries with monarchies are sliming them down, supporting them less, etc. Many royals have regular jobs and pop in to be royals as necessary for a few state functions and charities. That's the model the world is moving to, that Charles has said he wants to move The Firm to and that H+M were trying to get for themselves.

They may not have handled it well or they have had their hands forced or maybe a little of both but what they were asking for was not outrageous IMO. I personally suspect they were negotiating for this (there were some hints that they were) when something happened to cause them to use the nuclear option. i.e., announcing it before details were finalized.

Whether whatever "it" is really warranted that response, we don't have the info to know (the book doesn't seem to include this info, which is disappointing to me). But it seems unlikely that they just decided one day to blow up their relationship with their family for no reason.

 

[ballettmaus]

I wonder if in some ways she sees in Harry's decision an abdication of duty.

If she does, I don't agree with her. Harry should have a choice with regards to what he wants to do with his life and not be expected to do something because of the family he was born into. I get that she was raised differently but times have changed and I hope she understands and respects the choice Harry made.

 

[overedge]

Professional journalists who make things up that are easily disprovable don't remain professional journalists very long, and H&M haven't denied anything in the book.

I don't know what other journalism gigs the book authors have, but (sadly) it's a lot easier to write a book with unreliable sources than it is to write a news article with unreliable sources. I haven't read the book, so I have no basis to say whether its information is reliable or unreliable. But TBH if a book publisher thinks they can make a quick buck with a book on a timely topic, getting the book into print in time to capitalize on that is usually going to take priority over the time/expense of fact-checking the book's content. The book authors might be risking their professional reputations, but OTOH they're also likely to make a whole lot of $$$$.

 

[overedge]

And sometimes much to her and their detriment and at the expense of others.

Yes, it would be nice if she was a little less protective of Prince Andrew right around now.

 

[mella]

I'm going to guess she does. But, if so, it's not really logical. Because Charles was talking about slimming down the senior royals and Meghan and Harry would most certainly have been demoted at some point. Also, H+M were talking about keeping some royal duties and it's the Firm that made that impossible. Doesn't mean it doesn't feel like abdictaion of duty to her.

All over the world, countries with monarchies are sliming them down, supporting them less, etc. Many royals have regular jobs and pop in to be royals as necessary for a few state functions and charities. That's the model the world is moving to, that Charles has said he wants to move The Firm to and that H+M were trying to get for themselves.

They may not have handled it well or they have had their hands forced or maybe a little of both but what they were asking for was not outrageous IMO. I personally suspect they were negotiating for this (there were some hints that they were) when something happened to cause them to use the nuclear option. i.e., announcing it before details were finalized.

Whether whatever "it" is really warranted that response, we don't have the info to know (the book doesn't seem to include this info, which is disappointing to me). But it seems unlikely that they just decided one day to blow up their relationship with their family for no reason.

As I understand it the news was leaked to a paper and they chose to anticipate the story breaking and post it on their own website. I assume the theory was that doing so would keep them in control of the narrative.

Unfortunately what appears to have happened instead is that it opened the door for the press to present the RF as apparently be "blindsided" and "left reeling" by the announcement, although there have been subsequent (rather quieter) acknowledgements that the idea had been put forward (to Charles iirc) quite some time before.

 

[Vagabond]

So according to you when she left everything familiar & entered what was (to her) a hostile environment she also should not have been able to vent to her close friends.

How hostile could it possibly have been from her point of view? From what has been reported, worst of it is that her sister--in-law didn't go shopping with her.

How about we both take chill pills? ?

 

[dinakt]

If she does, I don't agree with her. Harry should have a choice with regards to what he wants to do with his life and not be expected to do something because of the family he was born into. I get that she was raised differently but times have changed and I hope she understands and respects the choice Harry made.

I agree- Harry and Meghan should have a choice as to their duties. But I cannot help but think that if I married into a family with reasonably close ties and then those ties have strained due to my coming into the family, I would do my best to make sure my husband restores them. Not for my sake, but for his.

 

[ballettmaus]

I agree- Harry and Meghan should have a choice as to their duties. But I cannot help but think that if I married into a family with reasonably close ties and then those ties have strained due to my coming into the family, I would do my best to make sure my husband restores them. Not for my sake, but for his.

The question is, was it due to Meghan coming into the family or was it already there and she was just the excuse? For all we know, she have urged him to make amends and he didn't want to.

 

[dinakt]

The question is, was it due to Meghan coming into the family or was it already there and she was just the excuse? For all we know, she have urged him to make amends and he didn't want to.

I have no idea, and you might be right (and I do not follow closely). I just cannot imagine living in LA+breaking family ties is the best place for Harry (moving away is fine. Moving away plus estrangement- less so).
Being born into a family with the strictest and the most singular set of rules is undoubtedly hard, even without the tragic circumstances. Trips to the mall, tiaras, attitude of the staff are all trivial comparatively to the well-being of your loved one. I hope Meghan knows that and works towards Harry's happiness/just as he works towards hers. She might (as I said, I have no idea)

 

[Parsley Sage]

There are reports out there that The Queen gave H&M an option of not taking titles when they married and that way they could live a more private life and Meghan could continue with her acting career.

 

[canbelto]

Well all three IG accounts of the Royal Family (Kensington Royal, Clarence House and The Royal Family) wished Meghan a happy birthday today. The picture KP chose was gorgeous.

 

[MsZem]

Well all three IG accounts of the Royal Family (Kensington Royal, Clarence House and The Royal Family) wished Meghan a happy birthday today. The picture KP chose was gorgeous.

I liked the one with the queen

I was browsing online and came across this, for anyone who thinks that the BRF is bad

The night 19 Ottoman princes were killed by their brother - Royal Central

The former church Haga Sophia has been widely reported in the media over recent weeks after the building has been converted into a mosque for the second time.

royalcentral.co.uk

 

[VGThuy]

I liked the one with the queen

I was browsing online and came across this, for anyone who thinks that the BRF is bad

The night 19 Ottoman princes were killed by their brother - Royal Central

The former church Haga Sophia has been widely reported in the media over recent weeks after the building has been converted into a mosque for the second time.

royalcentral.co.uk

That makes some of those Chinese concubine dramas look tame.

 

[overedge]

I agree- Harry and Meghan should have a choice as to their duties. But I cannot help but think that if I married into a family with reasonably close ties and then those ties have strained due to my coming into the family, I would do my best to make sure my husband restores them. Not for my sake, but for his.

I get what you are saying, but OTOH if the ties are strained because the new person is unfairly perceived as an opportunistic, career-driven outsider, then it may not be worth maintaining those ties. Those may not be the sort of toxic people you want to continue having in your life.

I'm not saying that perception is what Meghan is, and I'm also not saying that everyone in the Royal family feels that way. But something that seems to be missing in all of these analyses is that the Royal family aren't the only players in this scenario. There is also the Royal household - all of the staff who work with the Royals - and from most accounts that is a nasty, back-stabbing, and very status-conscious workplace, with a lot of gossip and drama of its own. And if Meghan was not perceived well by powerful or influential Royal staff, that could have a lot of bad effects, even if the Royals themselves were not upset by her.

Members of the Royal staff also could have been the sources for some of the leaked information about H&M (positive or otherwise).

 

[dinakt]

@overedge
I agree. Undoubtedly a difficult situation with multiple undercurrents.

 

[puglover]

One of the highlight for me from the wedding of Harry and Meghan was the fact Prince Charles stepped up and walked her part way down the aisle. That seems to say, at least to me, Meghan is a member of my family and as her father in law I am happy to play this important (slightly outmoded) role of walking with her as her birth father is unable to. I felt it did give a strong message of "she is one of us". We also understand that Meghan was invited to spend Christmas with the family even though that was not commonly done before marriage. I also felt the wedding itself was not some state stiff affair of pomp and ceremony and in fact the pastor kind of stole the show. The reception seemed like a fun time with royals and celebrities alike all joking around and enjoying themselves. When it all went wrong, I don't know, but it did seem the royal family solidly supported the marriage. A question born of experience and concern from a elder brother to a younger one seems very responsible.

 

[aftershocks]

@aftershocks - if you read the book and feel that it does in fact make them look bad (as some others who have read it apparently do) - will you believe the book or think it is lies?

I'm not sure what you mean by this question? Just because some royal reporters and royalists who have a vendetta against the Sussexes (for a variety of reasons) have read portions of the book and it's been excerpted in The Times and those excerpts have been interpreted negatively by a number of British tabloids, including The Daily Fail and The Sun, doesn't amount to a hill of beans as far as fair, legitimate analysis. Plus, I frankly do not need tabloid reporters with questionable agendas to decide for me what I should think about the Sussexes in connection with this book. I'll wait to read the actual book. I've heard news about some of these excerpts, but I haven't read any excerpts.

There's a ridiculous amount of scathing commentary going on in many quarters, especially amongst royal reporters and royal courtiers, for despicable reasons, partly having to do with the Sussexes claiming the power of their own agency.

Meanwhile, there are a lot more positive things to focus on about the Sussexes, including the #inspiredbyMeghan fundraising campaign launched by the Sussex Squad in honor of her birthday (just yesterday) and Harry's birthday on September 15. The last time I heard, members of the Squad had donated within 5 hours of the launch at the end of July, $17,000 for CamFed (a charitable organization that provides education scholarships for marginalized young women in Africa) -- and that figure as of yesterday had reached $55,000 (or that may be the amount in pounds). The fundraising campaign will continue through Harry's birthday on September 15, which coincidentally also happens to be Meghan's mother, Doria's birthday.

I have to catch up with this thread so I don't yet know whether or not the current SS fundraiser or Harry's Travalyst Summit (which took place recently via Zoom) have yet been mentioned as positive events associated with the Sussexes. There are many positives about this couple which often tend to be ignored in favor of the negativity that abounds against them for mostly unfair and scurrilous reasons.

BTW, The FF book is certainly not a negative, despite the fact it is being portrayed that way in some quarters. It is definitely causing a stir and selling out (said to be atop the U.K. Amazon best seller list) and the book hasn't even been released yet, so those sales involve pre-orders. People mag's excerpts have apparently focused more on the love story with warm and fuzzy details, such as Harry saying 'I love you' first, and telling a friend after he met Meghan that, "She's the most beautiful woman I've seen in my life."

Plus, we have finally learned the name of their black Lab! Pula is her name! The name has signifcant meaning for Harry especially. It's the Botswanian word for 'rain.' Since rain is scarce in Botswana, the word also denotes something valuable and essential. It's not clear why 'Oz' was made up by royal reporters as the Lab's name. The only connection I can gather is that Meghan's former dog, Bogart, had a dark-colored sibling named 'Oz,' who was adopted by royal biographer, Sally Bedell Smith's son. Bedell Smith had related the story of how Meghan met up with her son one day so that Bogart and Oz could reconnect. There was even a brief video of the reunion embedded within a news article around the time of the May 2018 royal wedding. However, the doggie meet-up had happened when Meghan was still residing in L.A. (possibly prior to her landing the role in Suits and moving to Toronto in 2011). So it would also have been several years prior to her adopting her beagle, Guy, and many years before she met Harry.

 

[aftershocks]

aftershocks, is there anything that Harry and Meghan have done or are doing that you consider to have been a mistake? Even if only in hindsight? And I don't mean "they shouldn't have trusted eeeeeevil person X", but things that they have screwed up?

LOL. Why not ask yourself why it's so veeeeeery important to find fault with and flaws in the Sussexes' choices and decisions, not to mention their characters? There's so much of a negative, critical nature out there to choose between among the hundreds of ongoing tabloid reports on the Sussexes (much of it made-up or twisted). This entire ongoing drama, a lot of it created by the British media in the first place, is rather exhausting and revealing. Lots of strange, knee-jerk attitudes and prejudices abound. The bottom line is that Meghan is too different for a number of people, so she must not only be criticized, mostly without merit, she must also be cut down, belitted, and 'put in her place.'

There's really so much going on regarding people's attitudes toward the Sussexes (especially toward Meghan), in Britain, in America, Canada, Australia, on social media, and even in these royalty threads. The fact that the British media has been allowed free rein to tear Meghan down, has ironically been the catalyst that has further raised Meghan's profile and lit a fire under the Sussex Squad movement on Twitter, Instagram, YouTube and many other platforms. Not the least, the harsh, unfair, and often conflicting criticisms of Meghan have ultimately led to the Sussex Squad raising hundreds of thousands of dollars for Sussex-related charities that have benefited so many people in important ways.

Oh, and yes, just as Hillary is NOT perfect, Meghan & Harry aren't perfect either. Hmmm, but it's useless wasting time trying to count the ways the Sussexes err, or all the mistakes they've made separately and together in their lives when so many made-up flaws and mistakes are out there for you to read about from haters and rotten royal reporters. Plus, as we know, Harry's youthful transgressions are always available to resurrect and re-examine to your heart's desire. M&H are quite human and imperfect. But they have grown and evolved in their lives, and they've nurtured an unexpected love, while still remaining passionate and devoted to helping others. Some of Meghan's mannerisms can be slightly annoying, and she's admitted to being naive about the British media, but at least she's a positive person who tries to put her best foot forward every day. She enjoys working hard and she's self-confident, which I suppose some people may see as negatives. But she gets things done, and she truly cares about giving back. There are so many sides to what's happening, but looking at it from a stereotypical, superficial tabloid lens will only satisfy the haters who are gonna hate, while confusing the casual observers and giving the ubiquitous gnarly naysayers something to nosh on about unproductively.

Ironically, the upcoming book Finding Freedom is apparently meant to be a fair-minded and more well-rounded portrayal of the Sussexes that is not uncritical. The reason for the two authors joining together, is to present varying viewpoints. So despite comments to the contrary, the book is not meant to be completely uncritical of the Sussexes. In addition, the authors took a journalistic approach in backing up factual details and claims with at least two sources.