Asher Hill says Skate Canada ignored his complaints of "racism, misogyny, homophobia, abuse of skater"

[mackiecat]

I’m a bit confused about the homophobia part ( not Asher’s complaint, just posters who have stated that Skate Canada is homophobic). I can only think of one male a International judge from Canada that is straight. If Skate Canada was homophobic, why would the majority of their highest male judges be from the LGBQ Community?

 

[overedge]

I’m a bit confused about the homophobia part ( not Asher’s complaint, just posters who have stated that Skate Canada is homophobic). I can only think of one male a International judge from Canada that is straight. If Skate Canada was homophobic, why would the majority of their highest male judges be from the LGBQ Community?

If I understand Asher's posts correctly, part of his complaint was that he was harassed/abused in a way that involved homophobia, and Skate Canada refused to do anything even though its harassment policy forbids "unwelcome comments, innuendo, taunting, or questions about a person’s looks, body, attire, age, race, religion, sex, sexual orientation, or sex life" (from https://info.skatecanada.ca/index.p...sment-bullying-and-discrimination-policy.html)

 

[misskarne]

Didn't Skate Canada have a program or a push a couple of years ago that was basically telling their boy skaters to "man up" or other homophobic nonsense, led by Stojko?

 

[Vagabond]

Didn't Skate Canada have a program or a push a couple of years ago that was basically telling their boy skaters to "man up" or other homophobic nonsense, led by Stojko?

https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/stojko-still-determining-who-is-masculine-and-who-is-not.70663/#post-2561471

I'm pretty sure that was something Stojko cooked up all on his own, though I have read here on FSU that such comments are commonplace in the skating world.

 

[overedge]

Didn't Skate Canada have a program or a push a couple of years ago that was basically telling their boy skaters to "man up" or other homophobic nonsense, led by Stojko?

Is this what you were thinking of?

Figure Skating Gets Macho Makeover

Skate Canada, figuring skating's governing body in Canada, hopes to expand the sport's audience ahead of the 2010 Winter Olympics. Their solution: to project an image of "masculinity" that will draw in the "hockey crowd." By showcasing the strength and athleticism that goes in skating, the...

abcnews.go.com

 

[VGThuy]

It could be like beauty pageants where it attracts a weird mix of gays and incredibly conservative people with the ones in the bureaucracy and with the power not being gay.

 

[VALuvsMKwan]

It could be like beauty pageants where it attracts a weird mix of gays and incredibly conservative people with the ones in the bureaucracy and with the power not being gay.

Or those gays being self-loathing enough to put up with the culture for access and perks.

 

[VGThuy]

Or those gays being self-loathing enough to put up with the culture for access and perks.

Excellent point. I was going to mention that but I didn’t feel like it was my place to do so.

 

[Andora]

When I saw his original tweets, I thought I was having a fever dream or acid trip. I'm gobsmacked by his bravery, and so happy he's speaking out. I believe this is good for current and future competitive skaters, as well. Kudos doesn't cover it.

I saw an interview with Vanessa James some time back and she said she was lucky to have not experienced racism. Although the interview was some years ago, and I don't recall whether she was speaking about the figure skating world or about her life in general. My impression was the latter. And of course, Vanessa may have reflected on that statement and recalled instances in which she did actually experience racism.

I'm sure her experience as a true international athlete gives her a different perspective on racism. (International being Canadian-born, lived in Bermuda, Represented US/UK/France, etc) But I'd be super curious to find that interview. Maybe she did say she was lucky to not experience racism, and maybe she did mean in general. A black friend of mine is hella racist herself, and doesn't think she experiences "much" racism, so it's not unheard of for me. But I find myself wanting to assume she was just saying it to keep an interview drama-free, and that is my own unfair assumption.

This from last year doesn't prove either way, because it's the kind of mega-positive spin Vanessa seems to put on everything. She shouldn't have to talk about race in the sport just because she's black, and I get a small impression she's more comfortable keeping it at a distance.

"My dad has always said you need to be 10 times better and work 10 times harder just so that you can be given the same chances that everyone else is given. From that perspective, I have always known I was different but my parents also encouraged me throughout my career by saying I was beautiful, my skin shining on the ice was so beautiful," she says.

I hate to say it but I never expected a statement from the ISU just based on my experience seeing how difficult it can be for SOME people outside of the US to understand American-style institutional, historical, and current racism, especially when it comes to black folks. It seems hard for many Americans much less outsiders. Add in the type of people who run these international bodies, their backgrounds, etc.

Thank you for this. Agreed.

I've sadly long-compartmentalized the ISU's ass-backward mode of operation. Whether it's a snooty European caricature of a federation head, or Skate Canada chirpily playing the "well, we aren't the USA" schtick, I just expect the worst and enjoy when I'm pleasantly surprised.

 

[Immortelle]

Re: the feeling that one needs to work 10x harder and be 10x better is a reaction to racist/sexist etc attitudes held by society at large. So in essence, she has been a victim of racism and sexism as well, she just doesn’t frame it that way.

 

[Khaleesi]

ISU has very little to nil diversity within their committee and board why would you think they would be "woke" and willing to risk financial backlash. Anti-Blackness and white privilege are represented in just about all aspects of our society around the world.

Most non whites and some POC do not want to acknowledge this fact nor wish to change it. It would mean giving up their power and privileges. Many people have to pushed to look inward, examine themselves and the organizations they belong too in regards to discrimination.

Hell, skating can't even admit to the abuse of children within its community let alone racism, homophobia and other injustices.

I would think that because I would hope the governing body of a sport I love would be appalled by the current news and racism against blacks and speak on it. I would think that because I would hope privileged white peoples who have never experienced systemic racism whether direct or indirect would stand against abhorrent treatment of their fellow human beings. Because we are all humans regardless of the color of our skin and should be granted the same dignity as such. To at least put people’s mind at ease that they don’t condone racism and there is no room for it in their organization. Especially when they should be representing the rights of their skaters that are POC.

Is that too much to ask for? That is the bare minimum they can do yet their silence is deafening to me. They wouldn’t even speak in support of Asher Hill is quite remarkable. And you’re right that was my mistake and naivety because why would they stand for something so important now when they haven’t on other issues. I’ve had to unfollow many people on social media recently and ISU was one of them. I’m a POC and just as I will not stand for direct racism, I’m not going to stand for indirect racism. If their power and privilege is all they care about as you’ve said, then me thinks it’s time for me to move on from the skating world and find other ways to enjoy my spare time.

 

[gkelly]

The ISU is an international organization, headquartered in Switzerland. I don't expect them to make statements on human rights issues in any or all of its member federations.

US Figure Skating has in fact made a statement about current issues within the US:

Problems occurred when retrieving your information

 

[AxelAnnie]

Obituary: Mabel Fairbanks

Figure skater kept out of the Olympics by racism.

www.theguardian.com

Surya Bonaly was practically chased out of the sport (by judges, officials, coaches, a hostile media...) due to the color of her skin (though the attacks on her were coded as "edges" or "her coach" or "wrong outfits," the real reason was obvious).[/QUOTE]

More than race, I think that Surya had a problem with thumbing her nose at ISU. She and her mom had quite the 'tude.

Does racism exist in FS? Probably. How did racism manifest itself? That would be interesting to know. Did she get 10 points off for skating while black? I would hope not. Reading Misty Copeland's story is really informative. How does a black woman dance the White Swan? Yet, she did.

 

[Artistic Skaters]

Does racism exist in FS? Probably.

I give the qualifier "probably" four LOLs, like the four Pinocchios by the WP fact checker.

 

[overedge]

Does racism exist in FS? Probably. How did racism manifest itself? That would be interesting to know.

Episode #67: Rohene Ward, Part 1 - figure skating interviews : The Manleywoman SkateCast

Rohene Ward is one of the most talented, dynamic skaters who is now an in-demand Olympic choreographer.

www.manleywoman.com

When I was 15, 16, that was definitely the year that it changed. By that point I had been to Nationals multiple times, the stakes are higher, it was becoming more expensive. I was a junior at the age of 13 so I was giving interviews and things, and my coach was like, uh, you have to watch the way you speak, you can’t talk like this, you can’t talk like that. And that’s when I finally recognized, well, I was black, and in a sport that was predominantly white. And there was something wrong – well, not wrong, but there was just something not, you know, that I wasn’t exposed to. And how to balance at 15 – I want to fit in my community, but I want to fit in at the ice rink as well. And that was a very very very tough time for me. It was really really difficult, because that’s when my insecurities of being underprivileged and different started to affect me. Especially when I was skating, even in my safety net, it was now threatened. Because I wasn’t just a little kid anymore, it was, like, well, he’s black. As a black male, it’s interesting, but that’s what was being said to my coach. Like, you’re staying in the same hotel room as him? He’s a 15 year old black male. But they didn’t know my heart, and she did. And shame on them for saying and thinking that, but that was the reality I lived in. We were kicked out of skating clubs because of me and my behavior, or my “lack of” discipline and too much talent. Like, I walked around with smiles on my face all day, and I could be on the ice and have fun and chit-chat and still get my job done, and to them, they thought that I was undisciplined and didn’t work because I did opposites. Well, my coach told me to do, and I’m glad she did. They thought I was goofing off, but she knew what she was doing, she kept me occupied and focused. And she tried to keep those things away, but it’s hard to keep those things away when you’re compared to OJ Simpson. It’s like, those are the kinds of things I didn’t realize at that age, but when I was 15 it was constant. [snaps fingers] Constant. When I look back at those things, it’s like, wow, and to think that I was going through that. I feel like I dealt with it very well [laughs].

 

[Anemone]

Don't know if this will work outside Canada, but Asher Hill did an interview on CBC today and you can hear it here: https://www.cbc.ca/listen/live-radi...ing-out-skate-canada-for-hypocrisy?share=true

 

[aftershocks]

... So in essence, she has been a victim of racism and sexism as well, she just doesn’t frame it that way.

ITA that Vanessa James has surely experienced these 'isms.' I wouldn't say that she doesn't 'frame' her experiences that way. I would say that she's aware of what she has experienced, but that she doesn't dwell on it too heavily. The comment in this interview was perhaps Vanessa's way of subtly alluding to her experiences and to her determination to prevail in spite of what she has faced. The road has been tough, long and circuitous for her, but she has prevailed and she has obtained a great measure of success which is tough for any pairs skater, plus triply/ quadruply tough for skaters of African ancestry/ dark skin.

Seemingly Vanessa's focus has been 'glass half-full.' I also get the impression that when she faces blatant or more subtle discrimination, she treats it with grace and allows it to roll off her back so that she can focus on the goals and next steps that are in front of her. Quite often in her career, I have felt that she & Morgan received marks that were a bit over-managed and kept down in some instances moreso than they should have been. A memorable case in point is 2017 IDF, which there's really no doubt V&M should have won, but they were placed second. Still, quite often in the kiss 'n cry, Vanessa was always so grateful for marks that were on the high end, even when they should have been higher. She would smile and be overjoyed and show gratitude, or shrug and blow kisses to the audience when they voiced disappointment in the marks. I admire Vanessa's strength, grace, her positive, determined presence of mind and her beautiful smile.


As well, I applaud Asher Hill's courage in speaking out during this highly emotional time when remaining silent should not be an option for anyone. I'm so sorry for the abusive treatment Asher has experienced, and I'm exceedingly sad for the way his complaints were shut down. Asher is such a talented and beautiful skater. I will never forget his gorgeous skating in his final season with his last partner, Nicole Orford. To this day, their Theory of Everything program remains in my mind as delightful, inspired and uplifting skating. It remains heartbreakingly sad that the Orford/Hill partnership was not better supported by Skate Canada:

Orford Hill FS CTNSC16

Canadian National Championships - January 23, 2015 Note: I do not own this video, no copyright infringement intended.

www.youtube.com

This program was definitely performed in January 2016, not 2015 as the video poster wrote in error

Tracy Wilson: "Their sense of joy when they skate, is palpable."

 

[aftershocks]

Rohene Ward on manleywoman podcast:
"And [my coach] tried to keep those things away, but it’s hard to keep those things away when you’re compared to OJ Simpson."

Oh jeez, Rohene is nothing at all like O.J. Simpson. Not even close.

 

[aftershocks]

Aljona Savchenko has talked about how racist attacks aimed at (former partner) Robin Szolkowy hurt her.

This is the first I've heard that Savchenko spoke publicly about racist attacks Robin experienced when they skated together. But perhaps she spoke out in German publications about this. We all know the obstacles and hardships S/S and their coach, Ingo Steuer faced due to his past mistakes in cooperating with the Stasi as a young athlete. Still, we don't know if Steuer underwent forced pressure to work with the Stasi so long ago. It's a shame that Steuer's past was used against him as a coach. And that those pressures made the S/S partnership that much more difficult, on top of the experiences of racism.

I'm sorry that Aljona was hurt by the attacks against Robin. I can't imagine how much Robin has been hurt, throughout his career and throughout his life as a German-born, ethnically-mixed skater/ athlete/ coach of color.

 

[Japanfan]

ITA that Vanessa James has surely experienced these 'isms.' I wouldn't say that she doesn't 'frame' her experiences that way. I would say that she's aware of what she has experienced, but that she doesn't dwell on it too heavily.

Or, it may be she hasn't looking closely at the issue. Upon reflection, she may realize subtle or not so subtle ways in which she did experience.

I used to say that as a Jew, I never experienced anti-Semitism as a child. Among all the names the boys would hurl at me, 'Jew' was never one of them as I recall. But even so, my Jewishness did position me as an outsider in the northern Canadian mining town I grew up with. There were only a few when I was growing up. I was further positioned as an outsider by the fact that my father was a professional as a pharmacist, which meant my father made more money than most of the miners. I lived in a bigger house than most of my friends.

Also, I've been told I "don't seem Jewish". I understood it to be a compliment, which does make it anti-Semitic.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Personally, I doubt that Vanessa hasn't fully experienced and 'looked closely' at the issue. She's lived the issue, and she's referenced some of her experiences more than once. Again, she simply strikes me as someone who has solid family backing, nurturing and support, which has likely contributed to her feeling very comfortable in her own skin. Her personality seems to be one of positivity and joie de vivre, which does not mean she hasn't experienced nor been hurt by racism and gender bias. She just appears to have the grace and equanimity to deal with it in a way where she doesn't dwell on the hurt but focuses on the things she has control over in her goal-oriented life as an athlete. She seems grateful for her blessings and exceedingly strong at facing down challenges.

 

[Japanfan]

She's lived the issue, and she's referenced some of her experiences more than once.

I don't think you would have any whether/how she has, or has not lived the issue - and to what extent it's been a factor in her life. Though I do agree she must have encountered racism one away or another.

To give an example, I've noticed that commentators often talk about Vanessa's beauty. Much more so than they about white female skaters who are equally beautiful. To me that is racism in a way (though arguably positive). IMO the commentators are othering her based on her skin color.

Please post links to those references. Thank you.

 

[aftershocks]

I don't think you would have any whether/how she has, or has not lived the issue - and to what extent it's been a factor in her life. Though I do agree she must have encountered racism one away or another.

To give an example, I've noticed that commentators often talk about Vanessa's beauty. Much more so than they about white female skaters who are equally beautiful. To me that is racism in a way (though arguably positive). IMO the commentators are othering her based on her skin color.

Please post links to those references. Thank you.

Check out Vanessa's Instagram, and look her up on YouTube for a number of interviews. Some commentators may unconsciously speak in a certain way on occasion. It happens, and it's not unusual for women of color to be referenced as 'exotic.' And then sometimes there is praise that is simply straightforward and not necessarily connected with intentional or unconscious bias. So it's best to not automatically see bias in everything. Often even when bias is obviously present, it is subtle, and you can't allow it to disrupt your focus at every turn. But it does exist, even in the way V&M's skating has sometimes been described and referenced in a putdown manner.

As a black female, I can identify with Vanessa, which is not to say that every black female is alike or experiences the world in the same way. People of all backgrounds are unique, but the experience of racism is something that you can feel in your bones and in your DNA and there really aren't words to describe being confronted by the scourge. It is a feeling and an experience many melinated people share and learn how to bear, to navigate, to manage, and to fight against. I also once had an unpleasant and unjustified encounter with a toll booth police officer in New York, so I know what that experience and that fear of being harassed and demeaned feels like too. I will add that I've also had a few good encounters with decent police officers. Obviously, they are not all bad. There just needs to be better psychological and situational training, awareness, communication, open dialogue, and an end to lip service whenever the next black person is killed in an encounter with police. Let the targeting and the discrimination and the killing end.

 

[Aceon6]

This thread seems to be going off the rails quickly and some don’t seem to be hearing what the black community is saying. Let’s just listen to the black athletes for a while.

 

[Anemone]

Asher Hill gave another live interview on CBC news this morning, but I haven't been able to find a link to the clip yet.


ETA: I believe clip now available on CBC Morning Live's twitter feed here: https://twitter.com/CBCMorningLive/status/1268923347192209408?s=20
Again, not sure if this will work outside Canada.

 

[thvu]

That Skate Canada hasn’t responded with humility and a message admitting their past failings shows that their position is nothing more than performative allyship.

They care more about potential financial liability than actual people. They care more about money than the discrimination being faced by children and athletes every day. The constant defenders of SC need to see what is so plain in front of them - SC is corrupt, and it starts at the top.

 

[vu2019]

I don't think you would have any whether/how she has, or has not lived the issue - and to what extent it's been a factor in her life. Though I do agree she must have encountered racism one away or another.

To give an example, I've noticed that commentators often talk about Vanessa's beauty. Much more so than they about white female skaters who are equally beautiful. To me that is racism in a way (though arguably positive). IMO the commentators are othering her based on her skin color.

In a similar vein, it did make me a little uncomfortable the extent to which almost everyone piled on to name her the automatic female PSOTY for life.

I'm sorry that Asher had such negative experiences and hope Skate Canada does actually listen and try to make the changes that are within their power going forward.

 

[misskarne]

Is this what you were thinking of?

Figure Skating Gets Macho Makeover

Skate Canada, figuring skating's governing body in Canada, hopes to expand the sport's audience ahead of the 2010 Winter Olympics. Their solution: to project an image of "masculinity" that will draw in the "hockey crowd." By showcasing the strength and athleticism that goes in skating, the...

abcnews.go.com

It was something similar to that, though I'm sure it was a couple of years later.

 

[MsZem]

To give an example, I've noticed that commentators often talk about Vanessa's beauty. Much more so than they about white female skaters who are equally beautiful. To me that is racism in a way (though arguably positive). IMO the commentators are othering her based on her skin color.

Standards of beauty are cultural as well as subjective, and it is perfectly reasonable for someone to think that Vanessa James stands out even in a sport full of beautiful people. It does become problematic if she's described as exotic and using other coded words, or if commentators disregard what she does as an athlete to focus on her looks.

As for Asher Hill, good for him for speaking out. There has been a lot of hypocrisy in the statements put out by various sports and organizations, and while he can't hold them all accountable, he can make a difference when it comes to Skate Canada. I hope this will lead to some changes so that other skaters won't have to experience what he did.

 

[aftershocks]

This thread seems to be going off the rails quickly and some don’t seem to be hearing what the black community is saying. Let’s just listen to the black athletes for a while.

Yep, the athletes definitely need to be listened to and let's hope that they will be, and that going forward something positive can come out of the overt harassment Asher experienced. Yet, I'm not certain what you are referencing in your comment that the 'thread seems to be going off the rails.' It is important for all of us to communicate and to express our feelings and emotions and to relate our experiences at a time like this, as long as we do not revert to needless arguing.

Shutting people down is exactly what happened to Asher Hill. Let's try to be open and honest, and make an attempt to find common ground, while being more willing to understand each other. I apologize if I have misconstrued the overall intention of your comments.

Vanessa James stands out even in a sport full of beautiful people.

Vanessa definitely stands out as beautiful, period. So the 'even' qualifier doesn't seem necessary.