Royalty Thread#12 Tiaras, Palaces & Gilded Cages

[Japanfan]

That is the difference between Kate and all of us who don’t want to be royal, between Trusova and many other skaters. Fear in and of itself doesn’t stop them. It doesn’t keep them from achieving their goals. Stepping out after George was born, while “slightly terrifying” has helped Kate achieve what she wants to achieve. If anything is inspirational, that statement from Kate, IMHO, truly is.

Um - most of us don't have an opportunity to be royal, so therefore don't have a choice to be royal or not.

There have been many 'common folk' who have faced fears in order to achieve their goal

 

[canbelto]

Um - most of us don't have an opportunity to be royal, so therefore don't have a choice to be royal or not.

There have been many 'common folk' who have faced fears in order to achieve their goal

Seriously. How is it inspirational to marry into one of the richest most privileged families in the world? Kate had to be approved by The Firm as being worthy of marrying a king. Most of us don't have the money to even be considered a royal. And we're not white (another requirement at least for marriages to heirs).

 

[mag]

@Japanfan @canbelto

First, I never said that regular folk don’t face fears everyday. My point was that when public people face fears it can help other people do the same and that people who are able to face their fears and push through also often are able to accomplish more than those who don’t. It is what is called a “generalization.” I was also taking a swipe at Jessica Mulroney who implied in a now deleted tweet that all Kate ever did was just show up looking pretty and that it would be better if she tried to “inspire people.” I also never implied that Kate marrying William was in any was inspirational. W&K have, to my knowledge, never claimed to be or implied they would like to be, inspirational. They are doing their job and working for their charities and trying to understand and learn about the problems of people in Britain and work at addressing just a small number of those problems.

The main point was that even though the thought of having to go out and face all those people was “slightly terrifying” for Kate, even though William dreaded having to get that car seat in right on the first go, they did it. They did it because they appreciate the support given to them by the British people and because on a list of terrible things one might have to do, this is pretty damn low.

ETA: W&K did not have a nanny for quite a while after George was born. They spent the first few weeks with Kate’s parents and then they moved back to Wales. Yes, she had a housekeeper who came in a couple of times a week, and yes her mother visited, but other than that it was Kate and William, and just Kate when William was at work. Clearly there is still a lot of privilege - which she has acknowledged a number of times, but they did not have a staff looking after them.

 

[Judy]

@Japanfan @canbelto

First, I never said that regular folk don’t face fears everyday. My point was that when public people face fears it can help other people do the same and that people who are able to face their fears and push through also often are able to accomplish more than those who don’t. It is what is called a “generalization.” I was also taking a swipe at Jessica Mulroney who implied in a now deleted tweet that all Kate ever did was just show up looking pretty and that it would be better if she tried to “inspire people.” I also never implied that Kate marrying William was in any was inspirational. W&K have, to my knowledge, never claimed to be or implied they would like to be, inspirational. They are doing their job and working for their charities and trying to understand and learn about the problems of people in Britain and work at addressing just a small number of those problems.

The main point was that even though the thought of having to go out and face all those people was “slightly terrifying” for Kate, even though William dreaded having to get that car seat in right on the first go, they did it. They did it because they appreciate the support given to them by the British people and because on a list of terrible things one might have to do, this is pretty damn low.

ETA: W&K did not have a nanny for quite a while after George was born. They spent the first few weeks with Kate’s parents and then they moved back to Wales. Yes, she had a housekeeper who came in a couple of times a week, and yes her mother visited, but other than that it was Kate and William, and just Kate when William was at work. Clearly there is still a lot of privilege - which she has acknowledged a number of times, but they did not have a staff looking after them.

Jessica’s tweet was never about Kate it was about the plane shot down in Iran which killed a lot of Canadians.

 

[canbelto]

Kate before she left the hospital had a personal hairdresser and makeup artist visit her. She gets to whine about being “terrified” the day every mother leaving the hospital gets a hairdresser and makeup artist to ensure she looks just perfect when leaving the hospital.

there are articles talking about how damaging it was to women to see Kate leaving the hospital looking so perfect:

Yes, Duchess Kate looked flawless after giving birth. No, this isn’t normal.

If you were watching — like much of the rest of the world — Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge, went home (coiffed, dressed and, yes, standing up) hours after she gave birth to the royal c…

www.chicagotribune.com

And who can forget that a nurse commit suicide bc of William and Kate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/wp/2012/12/07/the-sad-saga-of-kate-middletons-pregnancy/

 

[ballettmaus]

Kate before she left the hospital had a personal hairdresser and makeup artist visit her. She gets to whine about being “terrified” the day every mother leaving the hospital gets a hairdresser and makeup artist to ensure she looks just perfect when leaving the hospital.

I didn't realize that every mother was leaving the hospital with a ton of photographers, cameras and basically the whole world watching.

And while I don't have children myself, I have friends who have children and I don't think any of them would have wanted to have to look perfect hours after giving birth.

 

[mag]

Kate before she left the hospital had a personal hairdresser and makeup artist visit her. She gets to whine about being “terrified” the day every mother leaving the hospital gets a hairdresser and makeup artist to ensure she looks just perfect when leaving the hospital. By leaving the hospital looking perfect in high heels she made sure that every other mother felt dumpy and insecure.

Wow, that is nasty. And just so you know, she does her own makeup. Even did her own for her wedding. (She may sometimes use a makeup artist now, IDK) And with George, there were no high heels.

She came out in front of hundreds of cameras as a thank you to the British people for all their love and support. She didn’t hid her still visible baby bump, she looked tired. She hasn’t asked for praise or “whined” about it. She was asked a question and answered it. She is trying to improve outcomes for all moms and babes in the UK - what a terrible thing to do.

I am a mother and with my sample size of 1 I can tell you she didn’t make me feel dumpy or insecure. She has never professed to have anything other than a privileged life, and has commented that she was “well taken care of” in her early years as a royal.

 

[Judy]

Kate before she left the hospital had a personal hairdresser and makeup artist visit her. She gets to whine about being “terrified” the day every mother leaving the hospital gets a hairdresser and makeup artist to ensure she looks just perfect when leaving the hospital.

there are articles talking about how damaging it was to women to see Kate leaving the hospital looking so perfect:

Yes, Duchess Kate looked flawless after giving birth. No, this isn’t normal.

If you were watching — like much of the rest of the world — Catherine, Duchess of Cambridge, went home (coiffed, dressed and, yes, standing up) hours after she gave birth to the royal c…

www.chicagotribune.com

And who can forget that a nurse commit suicide bc of William and Kate.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/she-the-people/wp/2012/12/07/the-sad-saga-of-kate-middletons-pregnancy/

I think mother’s feeling awful about how Kate looked are better then that. Most of them probably thought - thank god I don’t have to do it.

The suicide by the nurse was not caused by Will and Kate. Likely there was a history of mental health issues. As the DJ’s who pulled the stunt likely felt horrible and so they should.

 

[taf2002]

I don't understand why ppl keep saying it was "tradition" to come out on the steps & show the baby. I don't think you can call it a tradition if it's only happened once - Diana with William. I really don't know what W&K thought they HAD to - maybe because George would be heir to the throne. But why H&M were given grief for not doing it I don't understand. I think it would have been presumptious of them to do it, like my baby is as newsworthy as George. In fact, I don't understand why Charlotte & Louis were shown off too.

 

[mag]

@taf, the “tradition” was actually started by Princess Anne and carried on by Sarah & Andrew. If I had the choice between getting it over with as I was leaving the hospital, or getting organized to do it a few days or a week later, I would choose the former. That is just me. I suspect W&K figured just do it and then disappear - which is what they did with George. I think they did with Charlotte as well. Louis was different because they had H&M’s wedding to attend a few weeks after his birth, although I think that was the Kate’s first public appearance since leaving the hospital.

 

[canbelto]

Here's an article about Kate leaving the hospital looking so perfect:

Princess Kate wows with hospital exit 7 hours after delivering 3rd child

Kate delivered an 8 pound, 7 ounces son on April 23, 2018.

abcnews.go.com

As for her glam look, Kate had the assistance of her longtime stylist, Natasha Archer Jackson, who was spotted leaving St. Mary’s Hospital on Monday, and her personal hairdresser, Amanda Cook Tucker.

 

[Judy]

@taf, the “tradition” was actually started by Princess Anne and carried on by Sarah & Andrew. If I had the choice between getting it over with as I was leaving the hospital, or getting organized to do it a few days or a week later, I would choose the former. That is just me. I suspect W&K figured just do it and then disappear - which is what they did with George. I think they did with Charlotte as well. Louis was different because they had H&M’s wedding to attend a few weeks after his birth, although I think that was the Kate’s first public appearance since leaving the hospital.

A big part of them leaving early is the press is so disruptive for the hospital ... for all the royals that did it.

 

[IceAlisa]

Wow, that is nasty.

Extremely nasty and ugly. No amount of professionally applied makeup and styling would cover this up

 

[becca]

Here's an article about Kate leaving the hospital looking so perfect:

Princess Kate wows with hospital exit 7 hours after delivering 3rd child

Kate delivered an 8 pound, 7 ounces son on April 23, 2018.

abcnews.go.com

Some of my friends have a mani pedi with tradition before giving birth. They invite some girl friends. I like the tradition.

Most women don’t have to step out and get photographed for millions before giving birth. Which is why they don’t likely want hairdressers in the hospital.

Kate can do whatever makes her feel comfortable after giving birth. Whatever and any women can. She has never said she wasn’t privileged.

 

[overedge]

It would have been better for her not to give this podcast at all. As it is IMO she sounds so out of touch. Does she even know that most mothers have to do everything she does but with no help, no nannies, no financial security, no paid maternity leave, often no father? That they might get at most six weeks at home with their newborn before they have to go back to work or risk losing their job? That most mothers I know at work pump milk during lunchtime so when they get home they can save some time with the feeding?

Given that she grew up in [gasp] suburbia, and grew up in a comfortable but not well-off non-royal family, I'm sure she is well aware of the differences between wealthy moms and regular moms.

 

[mag]

Here's an article about Kate leaving the hospital looking so perfect:

Princess Kate wows with hospital exit 7 hours after delivering 3rd child

Kate delivered an 8 pound, 7 ounces son on April 23, 2018.

abcnews.go.com

Kate did look much more polished after Louis was born (which is when that article was written) than after George was born (I think 5 years earlier.) This was her third time so I am sure she knew what to expect and was well prepared. Fortunately or unfortunately (depending on your perspective) this is part of her job. She clearly has accepted that and decided to do the best she can. I don’t think this puts unreasonable expectations on other new mothers any more than her engagement ring puts unreasonable expectations on couples getting engaged.

Are there unreasonable expectations put on social tennis players like me when Serena Williams wins a Grand Slam after having a baby? No, of course not. Same thing with Kate.

 

[quartz]

Kate coming out looking immaculate and totally coiffed so soon after labour took a great deal of time and effort. I’m going to bet that she would have rather spent that time resting and wishing she could leave the hospital in a sloppy ponytail and sweatpants and just get back home like the rest of us do.

 

[Judy]

Kate coming out looking immaculate and totally coiffed so soon after labour took a great deal of time and effort. I’m going to bet that she would have rather spent that time resting and wishing she could leave the hospital in a sloppy ponytail and sweatpants and just get back home like the rest of us do.

She is also a beautiful woman and yes I am sure she kicked the heels off at home lol.

 

[ballettmaus]

She is also a beautiful woman and yes I am sure she kicked the heels off at home lol.

Possibly already in the car

 

[canbelto]

I found these pictures of Diana after giving birth. No heels, obvious loose maternity smock, old fashioned support knee highs commonly worn by mothers whose feet swell during pregnancy. I don;t think royal women dare look this "natural" after giving birth nowadays.

 

[Coco]

Gosh, I miss her!

 

[mag]

@canbelto Diana did not wear heels when she was married to Charles because she was already taller than him. I don’t see a big difference between Diana with William and Kate with George except that Kate’s dress doesn’t hide her post delivery baby bump

Redirect Notice

images.app.goo.gl

Fashion styles change and maternity dresses were shorter when Kate was pregnant so clearly she wasn’t going to wear knee highs. She was also wearing comfortable espadrilles.

Both Kate and Diana look more polished for subsequent babies which isn’t surprising. Diana’s red outfit is one she wore for an official engagement so it is designer and custom made. Again, the shoes are a time and style thing. Kate, at least until recently, almost always wore high heeled pumps. Diana’s hair dresser also did her hair at the hospital. Kate has always worn more makeup than Diana and was 10 years or so older than Diana when she had her first baby.

I really don’t understand the point you are trying to make. Diana and Kate are different women living in different times, who have significantly different fashion styles. Kate didn’t wear “loose maternity smocks” when she was pregnant. Why would she wear one when leaving the hospital?

 

[MsZem]

I wonder what would have happened if Kate and William had released something like the picture shared by the Swedish royal family back when Estelle - future queen and daughter of a future queen - was born:

Sweden's newborn princess named Estelle Silvia Ewa Mary

The newborn, who is second in line to the throne, will receive the title Duchess of Ostergotland

www.cbsnews.com

This is the approach taken by the Swedish royals in general, and I'm sure it would have been much easier for Kate and William if the expectations had been similar for them.

 

[aftershocks]

@taf, the “tradition” was actually started by Princess Anne and carried on by Sarah & Andrew.

Nope, it's NOT a tradition. It started by happenstance with the first royal ladies to give birth at hospitals: Princess Anne and the current Duchess of Gloucester who had their first babies in the 1970s. A handful of photographers and print reporters showed up. There was no tradition involved, and neither Princess Anne nor the Duchess of Gloucester took much time stopping to pose. The photographers got the shots as they could. There certainly wasn't any stopping to talk with reporters.

When Diana gave birth to Prince William in 1982, many more photographers showed up, from everywhere, as well as fans who camped out on the streets. There was nothing especially planned, but since it was known where Diana would be giving birth, and the information was released when she went into labor, it was easy for the crowds and the media to congregate. Like a lot of stuff that's been happening to the royals for many years, these situations were apparently not well thought out. It has not one thing to do with any tradition. The real tradition was giving birth at home in the palaces. For many modern day women (royal or otherwise), hospitals are felt to be safer and more sanitary, particularly if complications arise.

The Sussexes' decision to not give out any details about their birth plans was a wise choice. It will be interesting to see whether their way of handling their baby's birth privately might be followed by other non-senior royals whose children are far down in succession (such as Pr. Eugenie, Pr. Beatrice, Lady Gabriella, et al). Certainly, having the photo-op for Archie take place at Windsor in grand St. George's Hall was more befitting for a royal baby than the steps/ streets at a hospital. The St. George's Hall venue happened randomly. The original plan was to have the photo-op outdoors on the back steps of Frogmore House, where H&M had posed for their engagement and wedding photos. Because it was raining, the venue was moved inside at Windsor Castle.

 

[slicekw]

So historically, every English Queen who was pregnant would be sealed up away from the damaging sunlight and locked into her chambers as soon as it was known that she was pregnant. She'd spend the months, whichever time of the year it was, waiting to have the baby with no outdoor light, no damaging fresh air. Candles burning, fires burning, heavy scents in the air to keep away the bad humors, at the beck and call of whomever the doctor put in charge of her.

Then, when she had the baby, the entire court would try to crowd into the room. There was a specific hierarchy that determined who got a front row seat, etc. to watch her have the baby in all her bloody, screaming splendor.

Facing the crazed press across the street 7 hours later, after your stylist and hairdresser have helped you feel somewhat human is easy by comparison. Not entirely sane, but I bet she just wanted to get home and put on those sweats over her stretchy panties.

 

[Coco]

Did anyone watch the Spanish Princess?

At one point, the King's mother is having a flashback to giving birth to her son (Henry VIII's father) and she was being tossed with a canvas sheet held by a bunch of nurses. They are shaking it out like you would if you pulled it out of the dryer, except a laboring woman is on it. Was that an actual method of assisting labor?

 

[Judy]

Gosh, I miss her!

She will always be missed. Both Charles and Diana were equal height at 5’10.

 

[taf2002]

Kate did look much more polished after Louis was born (which is when that article was written) than after George was born (I think 5 years earlier.) This was her third time so I am sure she knew what to expect and was well prepared. Fortunately or unfortunately (depending on your perspective) this is part of her job. She clearly has accepted that and decided to do the best she can. I don’t think this puts unreasonable expectations on other new mothers any more than her engagement ring puts unreasonable expectations on couples getting engaged.

Are there unreasonable expectations put on social tennis players like me when Serena Williams wins a Grand Slam after having a baby? No, of course not. Same thing with Kate.

I think there was an unreasonable expectation put on Meghan. You say it was a tradition, aftershocks says it wasn't. Whatever, all the pregnant women I have ever known make the decisions about themselves & their baby for their own needs & preferences. Meghan was sharply criticized here & in the media for not showing off Archie the day he was born.

Diana is the 1st royal I remember going public the same day her baby was born. She was what? 19 or 20? I personally think she was unwise to do it & I think Kate was crazy to emulate it.

 

[canbelto]

I really don’t understand the point you are trying to make. Diana and Kate are different women living in different times, who have significantly different fashion styles. Kate didn’t wear “loose maternity smocks” when she was pregnant. Why would she wear one when leaving the hospital?

My point is that Diana did not start this expectation that mothers have to look picture perfect in heels, designer dress, full makeup and hair, hours after giving birth. Kate did. She's imposed this same expectation on mothers everywhere and it's deeply damaging to womens' self esteem.
It even became a social media meme:

Women Are Posting Their Post-Birth Pics After Kate Middleton’s Flawless Photos To Show How Different It Was For Them

After the birth of their third child, Prince William and The Duchess of Cambridge did what royal parents are expected to do and presented the new member of the family for the world to see. Kate Middleton was, as you would expect from a royal, well-groomed and putting on her best face, despite...

www.boredpanda.com

 

[Lorac]

Diana is the 1st royal I remember going public the same day her baby was born. She was what? 19 or 20? I personally think she was unwise to do it & I think Kate was crazy to emulate it.

Actually Diana didn't go public with either William or Harry on the same day - she spent a night in hospital with both boys before leaving to head home.

Anyway Buckingham Palace have announced March 31st as the official date Harry and Meghan step down from being senior royals:

Harry and Meghan's royal duties ending 31 March