From Russia with Love [#35]: Winter 2019

[Tinami Amori]

And the other skaters...

Natalia Zabiako posted a photo, but not answering few questions if she plans to skate.

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Liza Tuktamysheva's birthday today, 23.

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Elena Ilinykh (with Sergei) is in Miami, Florida.

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Aleona Kanysheva posted that she is finished the phys-therapy and back in training, this week in a gym, next week plans to start on the ice.

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Veronika Zhilina is at the local competition in Moscow, landed 4T

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/650626256475389953/656484601824411648/nika4T.gif

 

[Rina RUS]

It was ugly, and the "style" transferred to next generations.

You know, Tinami Amori, I'm grateful, that I'm used to think, that other nations can be brothers for me, that I'm not used to think, that "good fences make good neighbors". I like, that my mom tries to give as much to her guests as she can. I believe, that some "soviet" features are an important part of our culture.

"I live not in a house, not on a street, but in the Soviet Union." - I do like this song. And many other songs.

It is not as simple as "soviet"="bad".

What about your culture? Isn't your post ugly?

 

[Tinami Amori]

It is not as simple as "soviet"="bad".
What about your culture?

I grew up in Moscow in the Soviet Union.. then immigrated, thenreturned to Russia for work in the early 90's and still work with Russia. I have my explanations as to what's going on, and why, and i am not alone in my views.

The TAT/Plush/Yags issues with Eteri is not the only scandal. This is a constant situation, and media is without limitations, running with it.... I don't see similar situations in other countries' elite sports.

You do know, if you read the social media and the press, about the scandal between Medvedeva/Tuktamysheva camps, which involves Tarasova, Tuk's former agent, Medvedeva's fans, and the ugly video Tuk's former agent posted that looks like "Tuk is insulting Medvedeva and TAT, calling them garbage"?

And that Tuk posted on her IG how sorry she is about this, gave a long explanation what happened and how her agent ripped her off for large sums of money, and she did not mean to offend TAT and Med, it is his doing that he posted a video he was not supposed to post as a blackmail to Tuk, she no longer controls this youtube account, it was a revenge for demanding money from him, and that he ripped off other people. She posted his name and email, and a bunch jumped on him...

Elizaveta Tuktamysheva on Instagram: “Я не имею отношение к видео на ютубе. ⠀ А теперь обо всём по порядку! ⠀ Прежде всего приношу свои извинения Жене и её болельщикам, Татьяна…”

13.8k Likes, 682 Comments - Elizaveta Tuktamysheva (@liza_tuktik) on Instagram: “Я не имею отношение к видео на ютубе. ⠀ А теперь обо всём по порядку! ⠀ Прежде всего приношу свои…”

www.instagram.com

At the same time Med's fans attacked Tuk's account, and Med's fans fought back, and Med posted to all "shut your squeakers" and Yagudin picked up the "squeaker" term and now using it... and it made the news... and...

...if not for TAT/Plush/Yags with Eteri stuff, the Med-Tuk thing would be still be in the news.

And prior to that other stuff and scandals with other, almost on daily basis.... Mishin was not respectable in his comments about Kolyada's illness, he supposedly was not sympathetic enough and said "He is missing nationals - very bad!".. And ten more... "who said what about the other"..

Is this a norm? it's not a norm... and yes, it is partially "culture" and yes partially "soviet remains".... and why? because of historic facts, of what group of people was exterminated and/or banished after the Great Revolution, and "what level of people" came to power and ruled the country, and in what conditions people lived "for the Bigger Better Future".....

 

[anonymoose_au]

I dunno. I think he truly loves and respects TAT. Yags also strikes me as dumb enough to like a post without reading it, so who knows how this drama unfolded. Sometimes I wonder how Totmianina tolerates the clown.

Ha ha I feel like he saw the part trashing Plushy was like "Hell yeah!" and liked it forgetting the bit about TAT.

Awkwaaaard.

 

[hanca]

One has to love the Russians. Without them, the skating world would be so boring!

 

[Tinami Amori]

One has to love the Russians. Without them, the skating world would be so boring!

Can some other country, please, take over the torch of excitement...

-----
Nathan Chen and Aleona Kostornaya named "Athletes of the Month" in November by US Sports Academy.

U.S. Sports Academy on Twitter

“Chen, Kostornaia Named United States Sports Academy November Athletes of the Month https://t.co/pp63yMrfvK”

twitter.com

 

[allezfred]

It’s weeks like these you would miss rep levels. Oh the material.

 

[Nadya]

Reading Plushy's post, his working class roots are so painfully obvious. All the money in the world can't fix lack of any education or refinement. The way he writes and talks is...ugh. Chavvy.

 

[Nadya]

Is this a norm? it's not a norm... and yes, it is partially "culture" and yes partially "soviet remains".... and why? because of historic facts, of what group of people was exterminated and/or banished after the Great Revolution, and "what level of people" came to power and ruled the country, and in what conditions people lived "for the Bigger Better Future".....

Oh please. If you're referring to the so-called nobility, this group was as rotten to the core as anything. The people who ruled Russia pre-revolution weren't angels and they certainly weren't angels to the disadvantaged. To be a peasant or a factory worker in pre-revolution Russia was hardly an enviable lot!

 

[Tinami Amori]

Reading Plushy's post, his working class roots are so painfully obvious. All the money in the world can't fix lack of any education or refinement. The way he writes and talks is...ugh. Chavvy.

Oh please. If you're referring to the so-called nobility, this group was as rotten to the core as anything.

Ok, you don't like working class or nobility... . I was talking about inteligencia... But regardless, the upper classes in pre-rev russian society, like in any group, had bad people, but still there were standards for social conduct and behavior in public.

But do give me your explanation why on prime time TV, during political debate by candidates, this happens? (i know all about Ksenya, i met her and her dad when she was 11, and who Zhirinovsky is. i want to know why this is now ok).

Собчак плеснула в Жириновского водой, тот ответил матом

На записи предвыборных дебатов на телеканале «Россия-1» Владимир Жириновский оскорбил Ксению Собчак, которая посоветовала ему не нервничать. Не выдержав неле...

www.youtube.com

Because i just watched the comments from the losing parties after UK elections. They had decency. Like my grand-father used to say (he was born in pre-rev Russia) "there is an old english saying - if you want to raise a gentleman, you have to start 400 years ago).

There is a conversation taking place on a russian chat visited by people working/related to in skating. One of the issues raised: there are no rules a) for skating community to how deal with media. b) for media and commentators what is allowed and what is not. many are not aware that an event commentator must stay neutral and not "cheer for his team"... such rule books do exist. here is first one that came up in google....

https://www.nfhs.org/sports-resource-content/public-address-announcers-guidelines/

-Announcers shall understand that because they have a tremendous influence on the crowd and that cheerleading or antics designed to incite the crowd for the purpose of gaining an advantage for their team is inappropriate.

- Announcers shall respect the participants of all teams and remain neutral when introducing the starting participants, announcing substitutions and the outcome of plays or performances of the participants.

- Be professional. Take your job seriously by addressing coaches, officials, administrators and athletes with respect regardless of team affiliation.

etc. etc. etc..

 

[Wyliefan]

That's all we needed, for this thread to head back to the Russian Revolution. That was the icing on the cake.

 

[PRlady]

I’m enjoying this so much.

I will say that (knowing I will bring Tinami’s wrath down on my poor head) that there were norms in US politics until Trump. You didn’t call your opponents childish nicknames, you didn’t call the free press the enemy of the people, you didn’t publicly trash your own party’s politicians if they weren’t in your camp and so on. No matter what people say about both W and Obama, and there’s plenty to criticize, they both behaved well in public.

Now it’s like the Russian skating world, which to be fair is like academia, the fights are so big because the stakes are so small. In skating that is, in politics the stakes are frighteningly high.

Someone told me that Zags also does not speak good Russian while Med does. TBH, most American skaters don’t sound like the sharpest knives in the drawer during interviews, but they’re you g and sheltered. Class isn’t really a factor, I think.

 

[Tinami Amori]

To tell the truth, PRlady, as it is more relevant to the current, the first "ugly" in politics that involved a President, media going wild and everyone accusing each other, was when it became known that Bill Clinton is getting BJs in the White House in the Oval Office from a young intern, and Hillary Clinton lashing out at poor Monica, victim blaming and belittling her in every way, while defending Bill. That was something, all the yelling accusations rumors..

Zagi, when asked questions, simply does not say much, and her answers are simple, age appropriate, and she often starts her answers with a short "hmm". Her answers are straight usually, she does not lie or double-talk, does not need to remember what she said before that may be in conflict with a new story or image, she does not need to rehearse, so it may sound less sophisticated than how Medvedeva speaks in public during a planned interview or a meeting.

 

[TAHbKA]

Someone told me that Zags also does not speak good Russian while Med does

It's not Zagitova vs Medvedeva. It's Medvedeva is an exception, Zagitova ,Radionova, Pogorilaya, Kostornaya, Sotskova, Samodurova, Tuktamysheva - all sound quite the same (I never heard Sotnikova/Tsurskaya/Scherbakova, it seems Trusova is a bit better than an average Russian skater. Scherbakova speaks a decent English, but I haven't heared her in Russian and I'd rather not jump to conclusions based on her English).
FWIW the rumours are Butyrskaya could hardly master a sentence at her time.

TBH, most American skaters don’t sound like the sharpest knives in the drawer during interviews, but they’re you g and sheltered. Class isn’t really a factor, I think.

US skatets have trainings with the US team press attache who teaches them that stuff. So do the Canadians. The Russians don't. It's not about being sharp or not, but lacking any school education ir any training. Again, makes Medvedeva an exception, hence her being sent to talk to the big guys, represent Russia in various events and not an actual Olympic champion.

 

[allezfred]

US skatets have trainings with the US team press attache who teaches them that stuff. So do the Canadians. The Russians don't.

Thank goodness the Russians don’t is all I’ll say or else there would be no ping pong balls of chocolate jam.

 

[Ka3sha]

Konstantinova is also quite well-spoken. It’s not that she a lot of chances to speak at press conferences but still

And probably no one among current skaters can top Kozlovskii.

New big interview with Arthur Minchuk about B/K, working under Moskvina’s guidance and his thoughts on the future of pairs skating:

«ÐÑÑгаÑÑ ÑкоÑо бÑдÑÑ Ð²Ñе, а вÑделÑÑÑÑÑ â Ñе, кÑо каÑаеÑÑÑ». ÐолÑÑое инÑеÑвÑÑ ÑÑенеÑа паÑÑ Ðойкова â ÐозловÑкий

ÐаÑем ÑигÑÑиÑÑам занÑÑÐ¸Ñ Ñ Ð°ÑÑиÑÑами ÐаÑиинки, ÑÑо Ð´Ð°ÐµÑ Ð°ÐºÑеÑÑкое маÑÑеÑÑÑво, и как в одной паÑе могÑÑ ÑживаÑÑÑÑ Ð´Ð²Ð° лидеÑа.

matchtv.ru

 

[TAHbKA]

And probably no one among current skaters can top Kozlovskii.

Kozlovskii
Usually the dance/pairs teams are much better than the ladies (but then they are like 20 years older...)

 

[Skibean]

I will agree that Medvedeva has charisma in which the others seem to lack.
Carry on. This drama is like a train wreck

 

[starrynight]

Medvedeva has launched a range of merchandise which looks a lot of fun. Wish more skaters did this.

Коллекция одежды by Evgenia Medvedeva

Официальный сайт бренда Evgenia Medvedeva. Коллекция комфортной одежды, сделанной с любовью.

medvedevaevgeniya.com

 

[Rina RUS]

Reading Plushy's post, his working class roots are so painfully obvious. All the money in the world can't fix lack of any education or refinement. The way he writes and talks is...ugh.

Working class roots? Tinami Amori mentioned poisoning. As far as I know, western kings poisoned their relatives. I guess many people with working class roots are more decent people than those western kings.

No matter what people say about both W and Obama, and there’s plenty to criticize, they both behaved well in public.

Well, Russians laughed at Obama who used to come with a chewing gum in his mouth to important events. For us chewing in such a case means: "I don't care what's going on here!" As for Bill and Monica - yes, it was noticed too.

But do give me your explanation why on prime time TV, during political debate by candidates, this happens?

Yet Russia also is not a country where many people apply to court even without serious reasons. How is it called? Malicious litigation? I think it is ugly too. Countries are different. If we have to choose between "to be" or "to seem", I like Russian habitude to be sincere, even if often Russian people can't seem better than they are. I think Russians can become better without pretending to be better. (uncluding those who has "working class roots")
As for Zhirinovsky - it is not bad, that we know what we can expect from him. Good image can be dangerous, when it is just an image.

As for media, many of them invent ugly headlines even when nothing bad was said or done. I don't worry. Tinami Amori, it seems it is you who reads soviet newspapers when you have your breakfast.

Actually, what was said? That Tarasova criticized Zagitova? That Plushenko hasn't prepared a good skater yet? Maybe these words are not very nice, but I don't think they are a serious reason to worry.

 

[PRlady]

Americans used to value a civil culture, which got them called phony in blunter places. (Remember, I’ve lived in Israel, where that stereotype is prevalent.) Obama chewed gum because he was always trying to stop smoking, I sympathize. And the Clintons were no advertisement for good behavior, many people on the left held their noses to vote for them, including me.

I admit having the American skaters, from demonstrably smart ones like Nathan to little kids like Alysa, all say the same careful things is very boring. But it’s better to be protected from a scandal-hunting media than not. The Russian system of letting it all hang out enmeshes very young skaters in a lot of nastiness, I don’t see how that can be good for them.

 

[Rina RUS]

Americans used to value a civil culture, which got them called phony in blunter places.

Don't worry. I didn't say, that careful behaviour is boring. Everyone chooses his own way. Actually, I don't think I have a right to judge. I think I have a right to try to look from different points of view, to try to become better, to forgive, to help.
I just do cherish the culture of my country - including some features which it has thanks to the soviet time.

 

[TAHbKA]

I admit having the American skaters, from demonstrably smart ones like Nathan to little kids like Alysa, all say the same careful things is very boring. But it’s better to be protected from a scandal-hunting media than not. The Russian system of letting it all hang out enmeshes very young skaters in a lot of nastiness, I don’t see how that can be good for them.

It's not just the boring, it's also the vocabulary they use. As said, my friend's then 8y.o. daughter used more or less the same words then 15y.o. Radionova did. Or the grammatical mistakes they make.

 

[Nadya]

I’m enjoying this so much.

I will say that (knowing I will bring Tinami’s wrath down on my poor head) that there were norms in US politics until Trump. You didn’t call your opponents childish nicknames, you didn’t call the free press the enemy of the people, you didn’t publicly trash your own party’s politicians if they weren’t in your camp and so on. No matter what people say about both W and Obama, and there’s plenty to criticize, they both behaved well in public.

Now it’s like the Russian skating world, which to be fair is like academia, the fights are so big because the stakes are so small. In skating that is, in politics the stakes are frighteningly high.

Someone told me that Zags also does not speak good Russian while Med does. TBH, most American skaters don’t sound like the sharpest knives in the drawer during interviews, but they’re you g and sheltered. Class isn’t really a factor, I think.

Please don't take this personally as I think you're a lovely person. But it is very much a part of the American lore to pretend that class system in America doesn't exist. You and I know that's not the case.

I agree that most American skaters don't come across as Rhodes scholars in the interviews but that's mostly a function of how young they are. With that said, a girl who grew up privileged with two UMC parents with graduate degrees, well-rated schools, books and travel is absolutely going to sound different from a girl who grew up in a working class neighborhood with poor parents and not a book in sight. More extreme examples on this continuum would be Rachel Flatt/Sasha Cohen vs. Tonya Harding. I'm exaggerating to make a point but I think you will understand.

The way Plushenko speaks absolutely belies his lack of education and refinement. All his money didn't give him class as he simply was not taught how things are done in childhood. At his age, you couldn't really blame it on a sheltered background. Although the way he lives today, with Bentleys and Bidermayers, is absolutely sheltered from the common man. Too bad it didn't help.

 

[Nadya]

I’m enjoying this so much.

I will say that (knowing I will bring Tinami’s wrath down on my poor head) that there were norms in US politics until Trump. You didn’t call your opponents childish nicknames, you didn’t call the free press the enemy of the people, you didn’t publicly trash your own party’s politicians if they weren’t in your camp and so on. No matter what people say about both W and Obama, and there’s plenty to criticize, they both behaved well in public.

Despite a studiously adopted cowboy style, W's patrician waspy roots are well known. Obama grew up with a scholar mother and was a professor of constitutional law, if I'm not mistaken. In addition to all his other personality flaws, Trump didn't have a lettered upbringing.

 

[Tavi]

Despite a studiously adopted cowboy style, W's patrician waspy roots are well known. Obama grew up with a scholar mother and was a professor of constitutional law, if I'm not mistaken. In addition to all his other personality flaws, Trump didn't have a lettered upbringing.

Trump had a privileged childhood and graduated from Wharton.

 

[PRlady]

Please don't take this personally as I think you're a lovely person. But it is very much a part of the American lore to pretend that class system in America doesn't exist. You and I know that's not the case.

I agree that most American skaters don't come across as Rhodes scholars in the interviews but that's mostly a function of how young they are. With that said, a girl who grew up privileged with two UMC parents with graduate degrees, well-rated schools, books and travel is absolutely going to sound different from a girl who grew up in a working class neighborhood with poor parents and not a book in sight. More extreme examples on this continuum would be Rachel Flatt/Sasha Cohen vs. Tonya Harding. I'm exaggerating to make a point but I think you will understand.

The way Plushenko speaks absolutely belies his lack of education and refinement. All his money didn't give him class as he simply was not taught how things are done in childhood. At his age, you couldn't really blame it on a sheltered background. Although the way he lives today, with Bentleys and Bidermayers, is absolutely sheltered from the common man. Too bad it didn't help.

I work with the sociologists and would be the last person here to deny class exists in the U.S. However, without state funding, most of the kids skating here are relatively privileged; those that aren't, like Tonya or Agnes Zawadski, it's usually noted about them in the "poor kid struggling" type of media story. Just in the last month, I've been reminded that Piper Gilles and the 13-year-old in the Cipres case have a surgeon and attorney for fathers....but the media loved that Michelle Kwan's parents were immigrants who owned a little restaurant.

But the rich kids don't sound much better than the poor ones in interviews, they've all been trained to say the same thing. From what Tinami and others have posted, it's clear that the class system in Russia survived all those years of communism in fine fettle: it's one thing to say everyone is absolutely equal and it's another to eradicate the people's almost feudal sense of class.

 

[thvu]

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From TAT's Instagram!

"Dear Brian! You've achieved great success both as a skater and a coach. Best wishes to you and your students!"

Yeah, so, on the surface this is seemingly innocuous, but in context of all the drama with Eteri, this just reads to me as SHADY AS HELL.

 

[PRlady]

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From TAT's Instagram!

"Dear Brian! You've achieved great success both as a skater and a coach. Best wishes to you and your students!"

Yeah, so, on the surface this is seemingly innocuous, but in context of all the drama with Eteri, this just reads to me as SHADY AS HELL.

Parallel IG post:

Dear Boris! Congratulations on your overwhelming landslide in the recent election which is the only real landslide a Western leader has enjoyed in the last few years except for me! Best wishes to you and your countrymen!

Emannuel Macron

 

[Satellizer]

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From TAT's Instagram!

"Dear Brian! You've achieved great success both as a skater and a coach. Best wishes to you and your students!"

Yeah, so, on the surface this is seemingly innocuous, but in context of all the drama with Eteri, this just reads to me as SHADY AS HELL.

TAT wished Brian a happy birthday last year too.