Pairs Discussion Thread 2019-20: “Two skating as one”

[aftershocks]

My opinion is that "pay-offs" may be the 'icing on the cake,' but are not really the major point or the jumping off point in athletes' decisionmaking. For pairs skaters, I think the important thing is understanding their bodies and who they are as a team, and then having the courage to make the decisions they feel are right for them. And those decisions can change based on the fluctuation of events and opportunities, as we have seen in the case of J/C.

ITA with the points @Amantide has articulated. That J/C have gotten this far in their career together has been wonderful for them, for their fans, for the pairs discipline and for the sport as a whole. What I have learned from J/C and from a number of other athletes is: Go For It with Gusto, Self-Belief and Disciplined Hard Work. Finding the right people to collaborate with and the right circumstances along the way makes all the difference. After making every effort, and leaving no stone unturned, the chips can fall where they may.

As Meryl & Charlie expressed in their recent Google Talk: It's what you do on the journey that counts, and it's the special moments shared that truly matter, and that will live forever.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Insta-stalking

Ash Cain -Gribble giving us a really cool on ice perspective of their SP - A Storm A'Comin

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Costumes seem real cool

Wow, Skate America ONLY one week away!!!!! I need to start my chanting and ground myself!!

AND CHECK OUT this GORGGGGGGGGG photo of The Knierims.. truly look like "2 skating as 1"

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I kinda want this framed and add it to my skating shrine on the dresser.

 

[shan]

I love the picture of the Knierems. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Mad for Skating]

I kinda want this framed and add it to my skating shrine on the dresser.

It’s so stunning! I love her dress!

 

[aftershocks]

Costumes seem real cool

This is obviously a complete costume switch from what they originally had. And Ash had even made some small changes to her prior sp outfit at their last event. I didn't dislike their prior sp outfits. I liked the stormy gray. It's just that the red flames on Ash's top looked like fire more than a storm. And Tim's outfit, though nice, didn't seem to pick up on the red flames.

Although this change is more coordinated, why not do this particular styling switch using the stormy gray along with maroon for the accents? Then there would be more contrast between the fp costumes, which are really gorgeous, but also black. So now, there's major black for both programs?

And this blue on black styling, while safe and okay, isn't that interesting. It's less imaginative, and more generically abstract. It would work better with the stormy gray and maroon. JMHO. I do like the cut-out back styling of Ash's new top. I also liked the see-through lace styling of the top she tweaked with the red flames.

 

[aftershocks]

Finlandia Trophy results are interesting in pairs. Luba/Charlie are looking much improved. It's good to see them putting the 3-twist out there, even though as a new team they still have to perfect timing and rhythm to execute it consistently smooth. Overall, they seem very happy and enjoying this new adventure. They have lots of potential as a competitive team. Luba looks more confident on the jumps and their ending lifts in their FS (especially the final one) are difficult and dramatic. All of this bodes well for L&C as a new partnership on the rise.

It's great to see Serafini/Tran having a good overall showing as well. They are also a fairly recent partnership and Olivia is new to pairs, so they are progressing well.

Of the two young Russian teams (Mishina/Galliamov and Efimova/Korovin) who placed ahead of L&C overall (despite L&C taking second in the FS), the difference is the Russians are generally superb technically when they are in-the-zone. What these particular Russian teams lack IMO is personality and interesting rapport. In general, they don't act like they are having fun either. OTOH the other top-rated up-and-coming young Russian team of Boikova/Koslovskii exhibit personality and more connection, as well as more enjoyment rather than nervous intensity.

CS Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2019 - Pairs - Short Program

CS Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2019 - Pairs - Free Skating

CS Finlandia Trophy Espoo 2019 - Pairs

 

[love_skate2011]

well some can pairs need few seasons to improve artistically but the foundations will always be technical side.
Mishina / Galliamov had very good scores for new seniors passing a 210+ mark.

SP - 74.99

Anastasia Mishina & Aleksandr Galliamov - 2019 Finlandia Trophy SP

October 11, 2019 Finlandia Trophy. Music: "Je suis malade" by Lara Fabian; Choreography by: Denis Lunin.

www.youtube.com

FS - 135.19

Anastasia Mishina & Aleksandr Galliamov - 2019 Finlandia Trophy FS

October 12, 2019 Finlandia Trophy. Music: "The Master and Margarita" by Igor Korniliuk; Choreography by: Sergei Komolov.

www.youtube.com

btw, Efimova / Korovin arent newbies at all, they were B Team russians for years now but just got recent GP assignments because they improve a bit. I still see them as a B list team.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Thanks for the information. Efimova/Korovin still look rather young to me even if they've been teamed for awhile. Checking Efimova's bio, she was born in Finland and competed there before moving to St. Petersburg and teaming with Korovin in 2014, though their international debut came in 2016. Efimova is 20 and Korovin 25, so they are a mid-tier team in terms of age and experience together, which is somewhat surprising since they have seemed tentative and often inconsistent. They skated fairly well at Finlandia, so maybe they are turning things around. Possibly having to fight to get chances to compete internationally has held them back a bit in overall confidence.

Mishina/Galliamov are slightly younger at ages 18 and 20 respectively. They seem more technically sound than E/F, but also don't exhibit much connection or personality. It's not a put-down, just an observation. I think both E/F and M/G have potential to make their partnerships more interesting. But right now, I'm not drawn into their skating, though I can admire and marvel at their technical strengths. You are right of course that having and competing top-of-the-line technique consistently gets skaters top scores. IMO, Mishina/Galliamov were overscored a bit on composition and interpretation. They have a way to go in those aspects. But when teams have great elements performed well, the judges boost PCS across the board, without actually seeming to understand how to judge PCS more accurately.

There have been a lot of Russian teams who have excelled technically but lacked compelling dynamics artistically and interpretively. OTOH, historically, Russian pairs made their mark with aesthetics (Belousova/Protopopov showed the way), and then Russian teams began excelling technically with the dominance of Irina Rodnina, et al. Rodnina of course had speed, power and dynamic presence, but she wasn't especially compelling artistically. Totmianina/Marinin looked so gorgeous but ultimately did not develop any pizzazz or excitement. Artur Dmitriev with his two partners (Natalia Mishkutionok & Oksana Kazakova) was a gallant, fierce competitor who was ultimately more interesting than his partners. It was amazing how he made it work with each of them. Gordeeva/Grinkov of course are unparalleled technically and artistically. And Bereshnaya/Sikharulidze were also gifted technically and aesthetically, but they were sometimes inconsistent technically in pressure moments.

 

[love_skate2011]

Mishina/Galliamov are slightly younger at ages 18 and 20 respectively. They seem more technically sound than E/F, but also don't exhibit much connection or personality. It's not a put-down, just an observation. I think both E/F and M/G have potential to make their partnerships more interesting. But right now, I'm not drawn into their skating, though I can admire and marvel at their technical strengths. You are right of course that having and competing top-of-the-line technique consistently gets skaters top scores. IMO, Mishina/Galliamov were overscored a bit on composition and interpretation. They have a way to go in those aspects. But when teams have great elements performed well, the judges boost PCS across the board, without actually seeming to understand how to judge PCS more accurately.

well PCS is always been connected to TES by most judges, that's how always been regardless of the rules, like with Zagitova on her Olympic season, others like Chen and Trusova are examples.

Mishina / Galliamov remind me of Tarasova / Morozov when they debuted in seniors, T/M since then have improved their body connections, I actually see much more potential for M/G Because they give more emotions than when T/M started, also M/G are much more consistent than T/M.

Galliamov reminds me of Massot, powerful reliable skater and this will get them far. Power skaters will always get a heads up first because technique is more difficult to relearn then improving presentation and interpretation marks.

 

[nimi]

btw, Efimova / Korovin arent newbies at all, they were B Team russians for years now but just got recent GP assignments because they improve a bit.

Well yeah, Efimova actually landed all her jumps in Espoo! I'd definitely call that improvement.

Looking the protocols... No UR calls, SP 3S +0.07 GOE (with judges' scores ranging from -2 to +2), FS 3T +0.42 GOE and 3S1Eu2S +0.14. I'd be willing to wager that this is the best they've ever done when it comes to sbs jumps.

Meanwhile in Kazakstan, there were two Spanish teams that skated well. I already like Barquero/Consul more than I ever liked Barquero/Maestu, and I thought the other team (Broda/Betegon) had a very nice presentation for a lower level team; I assume they've been skating together for a while even though I've never heard of them before?

Oh, and B/C managed to get their Worlds TES minimums (27.37/49.88), so congrats!

Laura BARQUERO / Ton CONSUL ESP Short Program 2019 Denis Ten Memorial

Laura BARQUERO / Ton CONSUL ESP Short Program 2019 Denis Ten Memorial

youtu.be

Laura BARQUERO / Ton CONSUL ESP Free Skate 2019 Denis Ten Memorial

Laura BARQUERO / Ton CONSUL ESP Free Skate 2019 Denis Ten Memorial

youtu.be

I hope I'm not jinxing anybody if I say that already at this stage of the season, it's pretty safe to predict that there will be 20+ teams at Worlds.

 

[aftershocks]

well PCS is always been connected to TES by most judges, that's how always been regardless of the rules, like with Zagitova on her Olympic season, others like Chen and Trusova are examples.

Mishina / Galliamov remind me of Tarasova / Morozov when they debuted in seniors, T/M since then have improved their body connections, I actually see much more potential for M/G Because they give more emotions than when T/M started, also M/G are much more consistent than T/M.

Galliamov reminds me of Massot, powerful reliable skater and this will get them far. Power skaters will always get a heads up first because technique is more difficult to relearn then improving presentation and interpretation marks.

Mishina/Galliamov do not remind me of Tarasova/Morosov. In fact, M/G have had ups-and-downs with their consistency in past seasons. Since M/G are looking much better consistency-wise, they have probably turned a corner and now need to work on developing more personality and excitement. While M/G and T/M may have physical similarities in terms of body structure, that's where the similarities end in my estimation. So far with M/G, I detect nervous energy and determination more than artistic/ interpretive emotion and engagement. Anything is possible, but it remains to be seen how much M/G will improve toward becoming an aesthetic powerhouse. But as you indicate, boffo Russian technique will get huge scores, including boosted PCS. We've seen that with T/M and other teams, from here to eternity. Just because that's the given, don't mean I fall prey to status quo shrugging in my honest assessments.

T/M burst on the scene with good looks and groovy name-buzz. Plus, it may escape some fans' memories, but T/M were great technically when they first broke through on the senior circuit. They simply lacked good connection and generally had poor music and concept choices. Their admirers from the beginning have wished they would get better music and project more. It kind of went down hill for T/M in both respects, but not for lack of trying to improve their weaknesses.

I think T/M will continue to stave off the other Russian pairs vying for top Rusfed team this season. Of course, T/M may have their work cut out for them this season should Stolbova/Novoselov and Boikova/Koslovskii give them a run for their money and number 1 status.

 

[aftershocks]

well PCS is always been connected to TES by most judges, that's how always been regardless of the rules, like with Zagitova on her Olympic season, others like Chen and Trusova are examples.

For a different thread, but Nathan Chen is head-and-shoulders above Zagitova and Trusova in terms of creativity, musicality and aesthetic understanding. When Nathan was set on going for as many quads as possible, he couldn't highlight artistic interpretation. We know that's the drawback of tech-filled programs. So there are those who consistently talk down Nathan's aesthetic/ innovative movement qualities. I always point to Nathan's 2015 Junior Worlds FS for those who think Nathan Chen is lacking in PCS attributes. Nathan is still young and growing artistically, but he's much more well-rounded aesthetically and technically than some fans are willing to give him credit for being.

But we don't need to discuss this further in this thread. Sorry for furthering the off-topic drift.

 

[aftershocks]

Meanwhile in Kazakstan, there were two Spanish teams that skated well. I already like Barquero/Consul more than I ever liked Barquero/Maestu, and I thought the other team (Broda/Betegon) had a very nice presentation for a lower level team. I assume they've been skating together for a while even though I've never heard of them before?

Oh, and B/C managed to get their Worlds TES minimums (27.37/49.88), so congrats!

Ooooh, thanks for sharing. It was cool how B/C as a new pairs team were so giddy and excited about scoring 50+ in the sp. I guess that means being in the 40s or lower is the expected range for newly paired teams at mid-tier Challenger events. B/C won the FS by just over a point, but placed second overall since they were behind the first place Russians in the sp. Only three pairs teams competed at the Denis Ten Memorial Challenge:

Denis Ten Memorial Challenge - Senior Pairs - Short Program

Denis Ten Memorial Challenge - Senior Pairs - Free Skating

Denis Ten Memorial Challenge - Senior Pairs

Laura & Ton (B/C) are looking so good together. It reminds me how much I liked Laura with Aritz Maestu when I first saw them. But now I realize that it was Laura all along whom I was drawn to for her elegant qualities. The more I saw Barquero/Maestu, the less interesting they seemed. But with Ton Consul, Laura appears to have met her match in elegance and on-ice charisma! Ton has dramatic presence and he partners extremely well too. How exciting. Ton was previously paired with Isabella Gamez:

Isabella GAMEZ / Ton CONSUL ESP Pairs Free Skating GDANSK 2017

Visit www.isu.org for more information. The ISU Junior Grand Prix of Figure Skating consists of seven events that will take place in: Brisbane, Australia - A...

www.youtube.com

In the above performance with Gamez, my eye goes to Ton! With Laura & Ton, I watch both of them. They match quite well, and we can see how happy and excited they are to be skating together too. Isabella is now paired with Canadian, David Alexandre-Paradis, for the Philippines (her home country). Laura & Ton have to upgrade their 2-twist to a triple, and they are obviously still working on timing, sychronization, and polishing their execution on lifts and death spiral dismount. But I enjoy their choice of music (sp to Where's My Love, which was FS music for Seguin/Bilodeau in their final season). I can't quite put my finger on the FS music for B/C -- it sounds like a familiar movie soundtrack. Both choices fit their dynamic, and there's room to grow over the course of the season. Laura & Ton definitely appear to have a ton of potential (pun intended)!

The ISU needs to provide more opportunities for pairs skaters. And they need to view and treat pairs skaters as much more than second-class citizens in the skating world.

 

[aftershocks]

I can't quite put my finger on the FS music for B/C -- it sounds like a familiar movie soundtrack.

Laura BARQUERO / Ton CONSUL ESP Free Skate 2019 Denis Ten Memorial

Laura BARQUERO / Ton CONSUL ESP Free Skate 2019 Denis Ten Memorial

www.youtube.com

Identified in the text of above Youtube clip: B/C's FS music is from the Somewhere In Time movie soundtrack. It works!

 

[oleada]

In fact, M/G have had ups-and-downs with their consistency in past seasons. Since M/G are looking much better consistency-wise, they have probably turned a corner and now need to work on developing more personality and excitement.

M/G have actually been extremely consistent. They won every single junior event they entered last year and placed a very respectable fifth at Russian senior nationals. You say past seasons but this is only their third full season together. In their first season, they medaled are both Russian junior nationals, which is impressive given their depth, and at Junior Worlds. I’d say their 3S+eu+3S tends to be their most inconsistent element, but a.) it was a new element they introduced last year and b.) it’s an extremely difficult element for pairs. I think they land their throws and SBS jumps more frequently than the average pair.

I absolutely agree they need to work on the PCS side, but they’re still a new team, relatively speaking, and they’re coming up from juniors. Skaters like B/K who shine in presentation are the exception not the rule, especially in pairs.

In a way, they remind me of Duhamel/Radford - not an artistic team but one that always had (and won) based on huge base value.

 

[love_skate2011]

M/G have actually been extremely consistent. They won every single junior event they entered last year and placed a very respectable fifth at Russian senior nationals. You say past seasons but this is only their third full season together. In their first season, they medaled are both Russian junior nationals, which is impressive given their depth, and at Junior Worlds. I’d say their 3S+eu+3S tends to be their most inconsistent element, but a.) it was a new element they introduced last year and b.) it’s an extremely difficult element for pairs. I think they land their throws and SBS jumps more frequently than the average pair.

I absolutely agree they need to work on the PCS side, but they’re still a new team, relatively speaking, and they’re coming up from juniors. Skaters like B/K who shine in presentation are the exception not the rule, especially in pairs.

In a way, they remind me of Duhamel/Radford - not an artistic team but one that always had (and won) based on huge base value.

Yes M/G never had that big of issues even in juniors, they were much consistent than Boikova /Kozlovski whom had up and downs even in juniors; I can still see in their senior careers the consistency problem.

If they do well in their GP, Mishina/Gallaimov can follow the path of Savchenko/Massot, making a shooting success, Galliamov is very reliable and strong like Massot.

here is their post Finlandia win interview

YouTube

www.youtube.com

 

[aftershocks]

M/G have actually been extremely consistent. They won every single junior event they entered last year and placed a very respectable fifth at Russian senior nationals. You say past seasons but this is only their third full season together. In their first season, they medaled are both Russian junior nationals, which is impressive given their depth, and at Junior Worlds. I’d say their 3S+eu+3S tends to be their most inconsistent element, but a.) it was a new element they introduced last year and b.) it’s an extremely difficult element for pairs. I think they land their throws and SBS jumps more frequently than the average pair.

I absolutely agree they need to work on the PCS side, but they’re still a new team, relatively speaking, and they’re coming up from juniors. Skaters like B/K who shine in presentation are the exception not the rule, especially in pairs.

In a way, they remind me of Duhamel/Radford - not an artistic team but one that always had (and won) based on huge base value.

^^ Fair enough. Personally, I don't see anything about Duhamel/Radford either physically or personality-wise in M/G. D/R were a mismatch physically and looked like it in the beginning of their partnership. I was very underwhelmed by D/R when I first saw them. What I didn't know then was how close they are in spirit, toughness, determination and inspiration. M/G are nothing like D/R physically, albeit Galliamov might be closer to exhibiting some of Radford's elegance. If I had the chance to get to know more about M/G's personalities, I might be more interested in them. From their skating alone, I'm not interested at the moment. Plus as D/R grew in their partnership, they figured out a style that worked for them. Their style and their success wasn't only about their tech elements, even though it was unique, boffo tech elements that earned them their rep, recognition, and status in the top echelon competitively. ETA: D/R were known moreso for their tech difficulty and for their superb unison, but not necessarily for picture-perfect technical brilliance in terms of how they looked completing their elements. They just got the elements done, no matter whether they were aesthetically pleasing in execution. Over time, they did show more polish and smoothness, but were never textbook.

I was not that impressed with M/G's performance consistency on a few occasions in Juniors (despite judging results), but then I haven't followed them closely. Obviously, they have good elements, but they are only recently beginning to take on a new maturity and confidence. Previously, they didn't stand out for me among some of the other young Russian teams, but not all of the teams who were competing for Russia in Juniors in past seasons have managed to stay together. M/G just do not draw me in much. I don't find them very distinctive, but that can possibly change if I see something more and better from them. Right now, as I said before, M/G are very impressive technically and so they will be rewarded and get boosts on PCS that I think are over-rated. I go on my gut instincts and what I feel and what I see. How skaters move or don't move any one of us is a very individual conundrum.

Regarding pairs partnerships, every pairing is different and unique. Some pairs seem to have something indefinable right away, while others may take longer to develop a chemistry and an impact. Still others may be strong technically and never fully develop artistically. Growing together and fulfilling potential is not a given for any team.

B/K may be an exception in how they match and how they project something indefinable as a young team. But even that is no guarantee of what kind of journey they will have in this sport. So far, it's looking good for them, but we can't be 100% sure about the future for any team. I only go on what I know and what I see before my eyes. The future works on it's own time and mysteries. Once again, as I always say, that's why we watch.

 

[aftershocks]

If they do well in their GP, Mishina/Gallaimov can follow the path of Savchenko/Massot, making a shooting success, Galliamov is very reliable and strong like Massot.

All of these comparisons to past top skaters? Trajectory, physicality, styles, partnership stories and personalities are nothing alike. Not at all. Maybe it's just that these other former top teams were your faves and you are transferring your hopes to a new team you like and thus see what you see in this new up-and-coming team that you find similar to your past faves? Otherwise, I don't see any connections.

S/M did not make a 'shooting success.' Nope, that's not how it happened. Aljona was fiercely determined to continue skating and pursue another Olympics, while her former partner, Robin Szolkowy, with whom she'd won multiple championships and Olympic medals (just not the OGM), was ready to retire. Since Bruno Massot trained with S/S under Ingo Steuer, Aljona had gotten to know him. She knew Bruno was tall, strong, younger than Robin, easygoing and great partnership material. But when he joined with Aljona, Bruno had a lot of work to do to catch up with her and to improve his partnering skills. It's a wonderful story how hard they worked and what they had to go through to get to where they ended up. Even after the sp at the 2018 Olympics, championship glory for S/M was not assured. But everything they worked so hard for had prepared them physically, mentally and spiritually. They gave everything they had in the FS with deep belief and determination in the moment, without worrying about the outcome. In that process, something magical took over. The rest is history.

Please don't compare M/G at this point to Savchenko/Massot's partnership journey and ultimate success story. It was so many complicated years, hours, and defining moments in the making both individually and then together for S/M over their one Olympic cycle. Not the least being all that Aljona went through in Ukraine before she found a match with Robin and Ingo in Germany. But then what Aljona and Robin had to suffer through with Ingo's pilloried status with German fed, in order to keep their successful threesome going, is in certain respects painful times that Aljona doesn't want to remember in detail. But the obstacles S/S and S went through and the success they achieved in spite of all they were up against is also part of the reason why Aljona succeeded in her ultimate quest with Bruno Massot. On Bruno's end, skating with Aljona was an unexpected dream of a lifetime opportunity, and he rose to the occasion. Perhaps the most difficult stumbling block for Bruno was passing the German language test in order to win German citizenship.

Let's also not forget that in the beginning, Aljona/Bruno's competitive journey was not assured. It was the fans who helped give them a leg up, and then they still had to be patient before things worked out in the negotiations between French fed and German fed.

For M/G to match or top any of this is too tall an order to contemplate. Let's just allow M/G to try and find out who they are on the ice together, without all these comparisons.

 

[love_skate2011]

All of these comparisons to past top skaters? Trajectory, physicality, styles, partnership stories and personalities are nothing alike. Not at all. Maybe it's just that these other former top teams were your faves and you are transferring your hopes to a new team you like and thus see what you see in this new up-and-coming team that you find similar to your past faves? Otherwise, I don't see any connections.

S/M did not make a 'shooting success.' Nope, that's not how it happened. Aljona was fiercely determined to continue skating and pursue another Olympics, while her former partner, Robin Szolkowy, with whom she'd won multiple championships and Olympic medals (just not the OGM), was ready to retire. Since Bruno Massot trained with S/S under Ingo Steuer, Aljona had gotten to know him. She knew Bruno was tall, strong, younger than Robin, easygoing and great partnership material. But when he joined with Aljona, Bruno had a lot of work to do to catch up with her and to improve his partnering skills. It's a wonderful story how hard they worked and what they had to go through to get to where they ended up. Even after the sp at the 2018 Olympics, championship glory for S/M was not assured. But everything they worked so hard for had prepared them physically, mentally and spiritually. They gave everything they had in the FS with deep belief and determination in the moment, without worrying about the outcome. In that process, something magical took over. The rest is history.

Please don't compare M/G at this point to Savchenko/Massot's partnership journey and ultimate success story. It was so many complicated years, hours, and defining moments in the making both individually and then together for S/M over their one Olympic cycle. Not the least being all that Aljona went through in Ukraine before she found a match with Robin and Ingo in Germany. But then what Aljona and Robin had to suffer through with Ingo's pilloried status with German fed, in order to keep their successful threesome going, is in certain respects painful times that Aljona doesn't want to remember in detail. But the obstacles S/S and S went through and the success they achieved in spite of all they were up against is also part of the reason why Aljona succeeded in her ultimate quest with Bruno Massot. On Bruno's end, skating with Aljona was an unexpected dream of a lifetime opportunity, and he rose to the occasion. Perhaps the most difficult stumbling block for Bruno was passing the German language test in order to win German citizenship.

Let's also not forget that in the beginning, Aljona/Bruno's competitive journey was not assured. It was the fans who helped give them a leg up, and then they still had to be patient before things worked out in the negotiations between French fed and German fed.

For M/G to match or top any of this is too tall an order to contemplate. Let's just allow M/G to try and find out who they are on the ice together, without all these comparisons.

my dear, Im talking about their first season senior success not their whole skating life stories and hurdles

 

[aftershocks]

my dear, Im talking about their first senior success not their whole skating life stories and hurdles

I'm still not understanding why these comparisons are being made with an up-and-coming young Russian team. And re 'senior success' for M/G and S/M??? Still NOT the same. Aljona with Bruno is a completely different story than M/G. I don't see first senior success as having anything to do with S/M's first competition success as a new team. S/M were obviously much better known by fans and judges, and in fact many fans were eagerly anticipating their competitive debut. S/M were more like veterans, despite being a recently formed partnership. Aljona was a six-time World champion and a two-time Olympic medalist, so she especially already had much greater recognition with fans and the judges than M/G have and can ever hope to have, frankly.

The physicality (forget about personalities!) for Aljona and Mishina is NOT the same. But go ahead and continue comparing Galliamov's physicality with Bruno Massot's. That may be your best bet if you need to make any such comparisons, for whatever reason. I mean if there's a need to make comparisons between M/G and a past championship team, why not go for Volosozhar/Trankov instead?

Comparisons can be fun to discuss, but the ones being mentioned I personally do not see.

 

[Colonel Green]

So with the pre-Grand Prix Challengers out of the way, I'm prepared to call the ISU's consolidation of the Challenger pairs events a general success. Of the three, two (Nebelhorn and Finlandia) were really good with podiums that skated better on average than all but one or two of the Grand Prix pairs podiums from last season. The US Classic was a , but that was 100% foreseeable the moment they announced they were holding it in Salt Lake City, so that's on the ISU.

 

[aftershocks]

In regard to discussing different teams, variances and similarities, that's cool. I'm not trying to throw a wrench in it. I just don't see the similarities others are mentioning.

In regard to Savchenko/Szolkowy, I've always thought they provided inspiration to a generation of pairs teams. In particular, I think Duhamel/Radford, Stolbova/Klimov, Ashtakova/Rogonov, and even James/Cipres to a degree were directly inspired by S/S, in the sense that S/S achieved success and recognition without being a typical, Russian-aesthetic style team in their physicality and in their approach to programs. Even V/T and some of the Chinese teams (including Pang/Tong and Sui/Han) were inspired by S/S's innovative moves and creativity. S/S were smaller physically and they brought something unique to the arena. They were innovative and creative in their approach to music and choreo, always thinking outside-the-box.

The other teams I mentioned were not necessarily like S/S physically (except maybe for A/R), but I think they were all among the teams who were inspired by S/S to find unique ways of expressing who they were on the ice, without having to try for the impossible physicality and aesthetics of traditional Russian pairs teams (which of course dominated how fans and judges viewed what constituted success in pairs until S/S came along and broke the mold, so-to-speak).

 

[aftershocks]

... The US Classic was a , but that was 100% foreseeable the moment they announced they were holding it in Salt Lake City, so that's on the ISU.

I agree with your points, except I'm not exactly sure what you are saying above. Can you elaborate? If you mean that most of the pairs did not skate well in the fp, that's true. Are you referencing the altitude, or something else?

I still enjoyed that pairs event because we got to see some interesting pairs teams who have excellent programs that should build over the course of the season, regardless of the season debut mistakes that were made.

 

[Colonel Green]

I agree with your points, except I'm not exactly sure what you are saying above. Can you elaborate? If you mean that most of the pairs did not skate well in the fp, that's true. Are you referencing the altitude, or something else?

Altitude. It's bad for all the disciplines, but especially pairs; the 2018 pairs event at the US Classic was frightening.

 

[aftershocks]

Altitude. It's bad for all the disciplines, but especially pairs; the 2018 pairs event at the US Classic was frightening.

Ah, okay. Yep, altitude was given as one reason why U.S. fed took the annual Champs Camp to sunny California.

Don't some skaters find training in altitude beneficial perhaps, in terms of endurance? Of course, that's quite different from competing in altitude, which is definitely a monster.

 

[Sabine-Yuna]

22 pairs scheduled for CS Warsaw Cup!!!

 

[clairecloutier]

22 pairs scheduled for CS Warsaw Cup!!!

It's kind of nuts ... In terms of numbers, it will be a bigger pairs event than Worlds.

I think this is a pretty clear indication that 5 pairs CS events isn't enough. 10 pairs CS events is too many, but 5 is not enough. Personally I'd increase the number of events to 7 next year. And make Autumn Classic the designated North American CS pairs event.

 

[Sylvia]

22 pairs scheduled for CS Warsaw Cup!!!

Here's the list: http://www.isuresults.com/events/cat03109528.htm

1 Ekaterina ALEXANDROVSKAYA / Harley WINDSOR AUS 1
2 Justine BRASSEUR / Mark BARDEI CAN 2 (international debut together)
3 Lori-Ann MATTE / Thierry FERLAND CAN 2
4 Nadine WANG / Francis BOUDREAU-AUDET CAN 2 (NEW; debuted at U.S. Classic in SLC)
5 Anna DUSKOVA / Radek JAKUBKA CZE 3 (NEW; debuting at Volvo Open Cup the week before)
6 Cleo HAMON / Denys STREKALIN FRA 4
7 Coline KERIVEN / Antoine PIERRE FRA 4 (ISU Challenger debut)
8 Camille MENDOZA / Pavel KOVALEV FRA 4
9 Annika HOCKE / Robert KUNKEL GER 5 (NEW; ISU Challenger/senior international debut)
10 Elena PAVLOVA / Ruben BLOMMAERT GER 5 (NEW; debuting at Volvo Open Cup the week before)
11 Anna VERNIKOV / Evgeni KRASNOPOLSKI ISR 6
12 Irma CALDARA / Marco SANTUCCI ITA 7 (ISU Challenger debut)
13 Vivienne CONTARINO / Marco PAULETTI ITA 7 (senior international debut at Volvo Open Cup the week before)
14 Sara CONTI / Niccolo MACII ITA 7 (NEW)
15 Daria DANILOVA / Michel TSIBA NED 8
16 Isabella GAMEZ / David-Alexandre PARADIS PHI 9 (NEW; debuted at Finlandia Trophy)
17 Alina PEPELEVA / Roman PLESHKOV RUS 10 (first senior international)
18 Laura BARQUERO / Ton CONSUL ESP 11 (NEW; debuted at Denis Ten Memorial this past weekend)
19 Dorota BRODA / Pedro BETEGON MARTIN ESP 11
20 Alexandra HERBRIKOVA / Nicolas ROULET SUI 12
21 Jessica CALALANG / Brian JOHNSON USA 13
22 Nica DIGERNESS / Danny NEUDECKER USA 13 (first international this season)

 

[aftershocks]

Mishina / Galliamov remind me of Tarasova / Morozov when they debuted in seniors...

Looking at M/G's fp at Finlandia, I can understand the comparison to a younger T/M. But I still do not see any comparison to either D/R or S/M. Being compared to T/M merely highlights the fact of M/G's textbook technical strengths and traditional Russian aesthetic that's unfortunately boring without more genuine drama, chemistry and personality.

M/G are maturing nicely and appear more confident. They certainly have some interesting potential that might really take off if properly nurtured and developed. I'm not wowed by them at the moment. They are obviously excellent technicians. Still, they need to continue maturing and developing their power, maturity and a more palpable connection to each other. Right now, they are skating like going through the motions. I became bored especially during the middle of their fp.

All young ladies love tweaking their hair color, but Mishina's current dye job does absolutely nothing for her. The hair coloring doesn't look as bad pulled back during performance, but during the interview, it was ghastly-looking. I hope she finds a better hair colorist.

 

[love_skate2011]

Mishina / Galliamov interview after their win
she speaks pretty good foreign language , he needs her as his interpreter lol

Anastasia MISHINA & Aleksandr GALLIAMOV RUS Free Skate Finlandia Trophy 2019 YLE

Anastasia MISHINA & Aleksandr GALLIAMOV RUS Free Skate Finlandia Trophy 2019 YLE

youtu.be