Ashley Wagner reveals she was assaulted by John Coughlin

[CaliSteve]

Ok this is apropos of nothing but since I have been following the feeds of some figure skaters today ... cannot help but notice how many young, pretty female figure skaters favor a no makeup/track pants look off the ice. In fact there are a few I need to do a double take to see if it’s really them. I cannot help but wonder if so many of them favor this look off the ice bc they associate the dolled up competition look with something traumatic/uncomfortable. I have worked with enough survivors of sexual abuse to know this is a common reaction. De-sexualize yourself. Dress baggy, with no makeup. Don’t look pretty.

Not going to name names but since I was looking at many feeds today it was really striking.

It could be a number of things. I know one skater that equates "dressing up" to drag. She always hated wearing make up and doing her hair, etc.

 

[PRlady]

And most of those stories were written by men. At any rate, it's fiction and not even realistic fiction.

Women like Ayn Rand and that 50 Shades “author” have written scenes of rape and coercion that were read as sexy by many. Rape fantasies have a long history, Germaine Greer wrote about it with great insight in The Female Eunuch.

But there is very little crossover between fantasy and reality. I might have wanted to be an elegant depressive like Dominique at age 14 when I read The Fountainhead. It didn’t mean I wanted to be raped in my bedroom by Howard Roark.

@Tinami Amori, I was around when Rocky Horror came out & yes, people did dress up & repeatedly go to that movie but in all my life I never heard one person ever admire Frank-N-Furter or took him for a role model. That is so ridiculous that I can't wrap my head around it.

I was a 70s teenager who dressed up and went to midnight shows, except I hid out in the lobby for the cannibalism scene. Frank was a comedic version of all those suave movie seducers showing some poor repressed woman her real sexuality. And not just in movies, Lady Willpower anyone?

Again, no one models themselves on Frank in real life, it’s a scyfi sendup fantasy.

 

[Debbie S]

Given that skaters are training 3-4 hours a day on-ice with another 1-2 hours off-ice, it makes sense they would want to be as casual and comfortable as possible. There isn't a need for makeup while doing intensive athletic training. I wouldn't read anything psychological into it.

Ashley posted a video message tonight on her IG story. I'm glad she's getting support from fans and fellow skaters.

 

[CaliSteve]

You know what makes me sick in retrospect? The death threats TSL and Christine Brennan were getting when they first reported this story. Looking back they probably knew way more than they reported bc it’s clear we’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg here.

Yup. Another disturbing thing were people jumping on the hate bandwagon just because they disliked them.

 

[CaliSteve]

Given that skaters are training 3-4 hours a day on-ice with another 1-2 hours off-ice, it makes sense they would want to be as casual and comfortable as possible. There isn't a need for makeup while doing intensive athletic training. I wouldn't read anything psychological into it.

Ashley posted a video message tonight on her IG story. I'm glad she's getting support from fans and fellow skaters.

She's getting support but also alot of hate for speaking out. She posted a disgusting message on her IG Story.

 

[jlai]

I am thinking if constant contact with lots of young females, esp physical contact in pairs may have created an environment where a young male may be getting a skewed sense of right and wrong re women.

 

[CaliSteve]

At one Nationals I was at, I overheard 2 moms talking about who they would not let their daughters be alone with (in this case it was not Coughlin). The skating club their children were with was CO Springs. At the time I thought it was just gossiping but left an impression with me that someone should do something, that the moms should talk to coaches or something.

There is no way that Sappenfield does not know what happens - no way. Her behavior with the KC Chiefs hats was horrendous.

I bet they were referring to Loan Guilete Schmitt and Geoffry Varner.

https://twitter.com/OfficialJadaKai/status/1157041443308855296

 

[overedge]

@jlai I don't think it's the physical contact. I think it's the imbalance of numbers between male and female pairs skaters. If some guys know that they can get a pairs partner no matter how they behave, that might make them feel like they can do anything they want to women.

 

[CaliSteve]

@jlai I don't think it's the physical contact. I think it's the imbalance of numbers between male and female pairs skaters. If some guys know that they can get a pairs partner no matter how they behave, that might make them feel like they can do anything they want to women.

I think its about the culture. Pair Boys are "golden" and are treated as such. They get privileges, special treatment, financial benefits and that creates "entitlements."

 

[aftershocks]

Those who think they are being helpful by comparing and contrasting instances of sexual assault, no you are NOT being helpful! You are adding nothing substantive nor constructive to this or any other tragic circumstance. You're only engaging in more finger-pointing and scorecard tallying.

 

[CaliSteve]

As consumers, we do have a choice about whether to pay money for a Season's Pass or Premium Access. Allowing certain users carte blanche to post material that, for example, normalizes sexual exploitation, particularly of minors, is not the best way of inducing people to buy a subscription.

Also have to add the boycotting of all skating events and their sponsors.

 

[CaliSteve]

Those who think they are being helpful by comparing and contrasting instances of sexual assault, no you are NOT being helpful! You are adding nothing substantive nor constructive to this or any other tragic circumstance. You're only engaging in more finger-pointing and scorecard tallying.

Can you clarify by giving an example.

 

[Japanfan]

Drunk teenagers at a house party. That is the problem right there. USFS needs to discourage the party environment at camps and competitions and do way more to educate all of its skaters on what acceptable behavior is. A formidable challenge with groups of young people who want to let loose after intensely stressful situations. There's a reason that the Olympics provides free condoms.

I firmly agree about the importance of education on acceptable behavior, but not that drunk teenagers at a house party is the problem per se. Most teenagers are going to find a way to party, one way or another, and it's often going to involve alcohol and or drugs. This does not mean that a person considers it permissable to sexually assault someone else, or commit some other crime. Even a teenager.

I believe that it happened. I also think it could have been misinterpreted signals.

This has probably posted before, but I haven't read the whole thread yet. Just want to say that it's difficult to misinterpret someone crawling into your bed and fondling you without your consent.

 

[aftershocks]

Can you clarify by giving an example.

I think my post was very clear. I am referring to those posters who are comparing and contrasting incidences of sexual abuse that are in no way helpful to the discussion. I'm not even addressing the obvious 'adding nothing constructive' comments that are happening in this thread. But since you ask for examples regarding the comparing and contrasting, see below. I'm sure if you are following the thread closely, you couldn't have missed this conversation:

I’m not really sure how he is much different from Nassar. Ashley’s account of what happened is basically describing that he was fingering her. Like..WTH does everyone think “he knew his way around a female body” mean? He wasn’t friggin rubbing her boob like a 7th grader. Jesus.

You asked how Coughlin was any different from Nassar. Insofar as he molested at least girl (Ashley Wagner, then aged 17) while she was asleep, Coughlin was different from -- and worse than -- Nassar.

 

[overedge]

I can't imagine they were unaware this was coming. Brennan and USA Today, at a minimum, would surely have been in contact with them requesting statements, etc.

Unless I missed something, Ashley's article was a first-person op-ed, not a news story. Ashley was telling her story so she was under no obligation to get USFS' input. If Brennan or other reporters are doing news stories as a follow-up, then they would contact USFS, and if USFS refuses to comment, that should be in their stories too.

FWIW Jere Longman has a new story in the NY Times that quotes a USFS representative as saying the organization has done several things since it initially heard of the complaints. I don't think the story specified what those things were though.

 

[Colonel Green]

Unless I missed something, Ashley's article was a first-person op-ed, not a news story.

There were multiple pieces, one of them by Brennan, not just Ashley's own writing.

 

[CaliSteve]

who is the Logan that Melissa mentions in her post?

https://twitter.com/OfficialJadaKai/status/1157041439877939200

 

[aftershocks]

... FWIW Jere Longman has a new story in the NY Times that quotes a USFS representative as saying the organization has done several things since it initially heard of the complaints. I don't think the story specified what those things were though.

From Jere Longman in the NYTimes:
"John Anderson, a lawyer for U.S. Figure Skating, said the federation had taken a number of steps to keep its athletes safe. A list of people suspended or barred from the sport has been made public since about 2001. Coaches must undergo background checks. Everyone involved in the sport is required to report any witnessed or suspected abuse. Athletes under 18 are now prohibited from living with their coaches, once a common practice among skaters, who often left home to train at ice rinks around the country, Anderson said. Coaches are also forbidden to be alone with skaters who are minors, whether at the rink or in a car to and from practice... and a member of figure skating’s SafeSport staff travels to all international events to monitor the American participants...

Anderson ... acknowledged that the effort in Olympic sports to protect athletes was an evolving process and ... skating insiders say there is plenty more work to do..."

 

[wickedwitch]

Ashley posted a video message tonight on her IG story. I'm glad she's getting support from fans and fellow skaters.

Me too. I just wish Bridget had received the same support.

 

[once_upon]

I think the dam is starting to burst.

 

[VGThuy]

https://twitter.com/OfficialJadaKai/status/1157041439877939200

This was more detailed than the FB screenshot I saw. Is Logan Giulietti-Schmitt still coaching? He needs to be investigated.

 

[CaliSteve]

This was more detailed than the FB screenshot I saw. Is Logan Giulleti-Schmitt still coaching? He needs to be investigated.

Logan is coaching Dallas, TX and Geoffrey is coaching in San Diego, CA.

 

[VGThuy]

Melissa (OfficialJadaKai) mentioned in her Twitter thread that both men are currently coaching.

Now that she came forward with her story against both men, I hope USFS takes the appropriate steps with them.

 

[CaliSteve]

Now that she came forward with her story against both men, I hope USFS takes the appropriate steps with them.

So do I.

Logan is coaching Dallas, TX and Geoffrey is coaching in San Diego, CA.

 

[jenniferlyon]

I think the dam is starting to burst.

It's also getting mainstream media attention, which is something USFS does not want. Mom said they ran a story about Ashley today on "Inside Edition."

 

[nlloyd]

Melissa Bulanhagui's post about Coughlin and the culture of the rink they trained at is shocking and very sad. For those who cannot access it, she says, in part:

I actually grew up and trained along side John Coughlin from the age of 14 while John was 19. We trained together for 4 years. He manipulate and groomed so many of the other girls I trained with. Skating was the sort of unsafe environment that allowed incidents like this [the one Wagner described] to be pushed under the rug. (https://twitter.com/SkatingLesson/status/1157096039993794561?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^tweet).

Bulanhagui goes on to mention Coughlin calling her when she was fifteen and talking to her sexually, and her being so young and naive she didn't respond, and of him stroking her legs when they were alone together in a way that made her feel uncomfortable. She implies that other, younger girls at the rink, had it worse. Like Wagner, and inspired by her, she is looking for a thoroughgoing change in the way the sport is administered so that others do not experience what she did. Kudos to them both.

 

[overedge]

There were multiple pieces, one of them by Brennan, not just Ashley's own writing.

Ah, I only saw the link to Ashley's piece. But I see that Brennan's article had a quote from USFS:

“What happened to Ashley should not happen to anyone, period," USFS spokeswoman Barbara Reichert told USA TODAY Sports in a statement. "Ashley is incredibly strong; not just to have the courage to come forward with her story, but to share her experience publicly to help others. Ashley recently spoke at U.S. Figure Skating athlete safety seminars and her experience and message of empowerment had a profound impact on skaters and their parents."

The hypocrisy. This would not "have happened" for as long as it did if USFS had done something sooner.

 

[CaliSteve]

Ah, I only saw the link to Ashley's piece. But I see that Brennan's article had a quote from USFS:



The hypocrisy. This would not "have happened" for as long as it did if USFS had done something sooner.

I bet they are really pissed at Ashley.

 

[CaliSteve]

I'm more than fine with people expressing sentiments of disappointment, and who have good-faith hopes that skaters who had done tributes come forward and apologize in order to show that they learned something and reflect upon their behavior. What I don't like is how some fans have made it about themselves, and appointed themselves as some sort of arbiter of morality. It's clear they are way more interested in ranting about and shaming other skaters and "canceling" them because it feeds their ego or something inside of them by doing this. Some of them get off on all the likes and comments of support they receive on Twitter and IG and act as if they are the ruler of their little figure skating fandom (and I do mean little). Some more nefarious people are using this as an excuse to hate on skaters (whole countries/federations) they probably already disliked.

Now, that said, not every skaters' actions were equal and people like Delilah or skaters who flat out said the victims were "lying" are probably deserving of harsher social media commentary. They put themselves out there as advocates and took a stand that more actively attacked the victims, so they can take the criticisms coming at them.

I 100% agree. Its a problem when the actions overshadow the cause. But I understand people's frustration of not being heard.

 

[CaliSteve]

I do realize everyone is in a different place, and people deal with things differently.

However, lauding someone's courage for not disclosing when it mattered, misses a point.

To see courage, Watch the Heart of Gold. Those girls and women stepped up because they cared about the girls who would come behind them, or those who thought the molestation / harrasment was their fault.

Give me a break...