U.S. Men 2019-20 season - news & updates

Sylvia

Sylvia

Flight #5342: I Will Remember You
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U.S. men have received 12 Grand Prix slots in the initial selection round:

Nathan Chen (Skate America & France)
Vincent Zhou (Cup of China & Russia)
Jason Brown (Skate America & NHK/Japan)
Tomoki Hiwatashi (France & NHK/Japan) GP debut
Camden Pulkinen (Skate Canada & China) GP debut
Alex Krasnozhon (Russia)
Skate America 3rd spot TBD

Andrew Torgashev is expected to return to the JGP for his final season of ISU Junior eligibility.
 
Copying over my post from the previous thread re. the current pool of JGP candidates...

I think the 3A likely is being encouraged for the men being considered for the JGP, but I assume other criteria will factor in as well. There are currently 14 JGP age-eligible men listed in USFS' initial ISP (with 15 JGP slots available this season, including 3 in Lake Placid):

Final season of ISU Junior eligibility in 2019-20:
Andrew Torgashev
Ryan Dunk J1
Dinh Tran J2
Peter Liu J4

Joseph Kang J6 (age 15; attempted 3A in his JGP debut last year)
Eric Sjoberg J10 (age 17; last competed on JGP in 2017)

Has yet to debut on JGP:
Lucas Altieri J5 (age 17)
Max Lake J8 (age 17; landed two 3A in his Nationals FS)
William Annis N1 (age 14; landed 3A cleanly in both SP & FS at Nationals and a clean 3A in his Adv. Novice FS at Bavarian Open where he won silver)
Matthew Nielsen N2 (age 16)
Ilia Malinin N3 (age 14); already has landed 3A (new jump for him) in comp. this season
Joseph Klein N4 (age 14)
Liam Kapeikis N5 (will be 15 in June)
Eric Prober N6 (age 16; attempted 3A at Nationals, landed one cleanly in his Novice SP at Eastern Sectionals)
 
RoseRed said:
Would have to think Alexei is very likely to end up with that host spot.
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Possibly. I think it is more likely that he will get a second spot via the alternate's list-- he is ranked pretty high on that one. I'd rather see the spot go to Sean Rabbitt. He was 8th at the US Championships last season, and this could be seen as his lifetime achievement award.
 
Jayar said:
Possibly. I think it is more likely that he will get a second spot via the alternate's list-- he is ranked pretty high on that one. I'd rather see the spot go to Sean Rabbitt. He was 8th at the US Championships last season, and this could be seen as his lifetime achievement award.
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I actually don't think Alexei is in the top ten group of the replacement list currently and thus not eligible to be selected as a replacement at the moment - though they don't always follow the rules. The list goes by seasons best. He could move up, but right now I have:

Men
  1. Vladimir Litvintsev (1) - 27
  2. Daniel Samohin (1) - 28
  3. Anton Shulepov (1) - 29
  4. Artur Dmitriev (1) - 34
  5. Brendan Kerry (1) - 35
  6. Paul Fentz (1) - 39
  7. Alexei Bychenko (1) - 40
  8. Koshiro Shimada (1) - 41
  9. Irakli Maysuradze - 44
  10. Alexey Erokhov - 46
———
11. Sota Yamamoto (1) - 47
12. Conrad Orzel (1) - 48
13. Alexei Kraznozhon (1) - 49

And keep in mind, he would need to have picked up a replacement spot before SA fills their TBDs.
 
RoseRed said:
Would have to think Alexei is very likely to end up with that host spot.
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I have to agree that Krasnozhon will probably be selected, considering that Torgashev is returning to the Jr. Circuit and Dolensky has retired. There is no one else I can think of that could fill that TBA spot at SA
 
olympic said:
I have to agree that Krasnozhon will probably be selected, considering that Torgashev is returning to the Jr. Circuit and Dolensky has retired. There is no one else I can think of that could fill that TBA spot at SA
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Which is pretty sad, isn’t it - as is the fact that none of us have rushed to analyze matchups, people’s chances at the GPF, etc. For me it’s lack of time (super busy at work) but I almost wonder if that’s the case for others or if there’s an overall loss of interest in US men. When I have more time, I’ll hopefully contribute something to the discussion, but in meantime would love to hear others’ thoughts!
 
olympic said:
I have to agree that Krasnozhon will probably be selected, considering that Torgashev is returning to the Jr. Circuit and Dolensky has retired. There is no one else I can think of that could fill that TBA spot at SA
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Someone who defeats Krasnozhon over the summer? (There were a few guys who did it last year. I know Savary did last fall. At Regionals, I think?) Anyway, Krasnozhon is the most obvious person; but we could certainly throw out at least three other names that could go if he could not. It's good that he is healthy now presumably. I do think it's obvious that the new scoring system last season made it tougher to meet the ISP required score for the men on the bubble than the previous season. I am curious whether that score is the same this season and/or how the guys will or will not adjust this year.

Tavi said:
Which is pretty sad, isn’t it
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No, I don't think so. I think it's a sign that the junior guys coming up did their job internationally last season. Got themselves up where they needed to be to earn their own spots directly onto the GP. No easy feat.

It's also a sign that we had some post Olympic retirements so a lot of the names we saw regularly for four years have moved forward in their lives. That's a little sad, of course; but also natural.
 
Dobre said:
Someone who defeats Krasnozhon over the summer? (There were a few guys who did it last year. I know Savary did last fall. At Regionals, I think?) Anyway, Krasnozhon is the most obvious person; but we could certainly throw out at least three other names that could go if he could not. It's good that he is healthy now presumably. I do think it's obvious that the new scoring system last season made it tougher to meet the ISP required score for the men on the bubble than the previous season. I am curious whether that score is the same this season and/or how the guys will or will not adjust this year.



No, I don't think so. I think it's a sign that the junior guys coming up did their job internationally last season. Got themselves up where they needed to be to earn their own spots directly onto the GP. No easy feat.

It's also a sign that we had some post Olympic retirements so a lot of the names we saw regularly for four years have moved forward in their lives. That's a little sad, of course; but also natural.
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Good point! We did lose all of Aaron, Rippon, Miner, Hochstein, Dolensky and Johnson to retirement. That’s a big hole in the lower echelon of the final group and also the penultimate group, and the US has a trio of Juniors who graduated with honors to the Senior level, ETA - I think Hiwatashi, Krasnozhon, Pulkinen and eventually Torgashev [based on those beautiful 4T's at Spring Trophy] will adequately fill that gap left by that mass retirement. Who in Juniors otherwise is notable now?
 
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Dobre said:
Someone who defeats Krasnozhon over the summer? (There were a few guys who did it last year. I know Savary did last fall. At Regionals, I think?) Anyway, Krasnozhon is the most obvious person; but we could certainly throw out at least three other names that could go if he could not. It's good that he is healthy now presumably. I do think it's obvious that the new scoring system last season made it tougher to meet the ISP required score for the men on the bubble than the previous season. I am curious whether that score is the same this season and/or how the guys will or will not adjust this year.



No, I don't think so. I think it's a sign that the junior guys coming up did their job internationally last season. Got themselves up where they needed to be to earn their own spots directly onto the GP. No easy feat.

It's also a sign that we had some post Olympic retirements so a lot of the names we saw regularly for four years have moved forward in their lives. That's a little sad, of course; but also natural.
Click to expand...

I didn’t mean it was sad that Tomoki and Camden got two spots themselves! It was more the retirement issue -the fact that there seem to be fewer US men out there.
 
olympic said:
the US has a trio of Juniors who graduated with honors to the Senior level
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And a couple guys of a similar age that moved up earlier and are currently on the World podium.

So, yeah, I'm feeling pretty ecstatically happy about the status of the U.S. Men right now.
 
In terms of depth, the US men are on a whole different playing field. For example, if a few of our men did not withdraw, more than half of the men who made it to the Junior Grand Prix Final would have been from the US last season. Secondly, with Tomoki, Nathan, Jason, Vincent, Camden, Andrew, and a few others, we have many possible Grand Prix medalists and those who can make it to the final flight as well as World contenders. The US has the most depth in the men and dance fields while it’s rebuilding a strong core of pairs teams. The ladies are the only ones who are truly on the struggle bus, but we have some very talented young ladies coming down the pipeline.
 
Dobre said:
And a couple guys of a similar age that moved up earlier and are currently on the World podium.

So, yeah, I'm feeling pretty ecstatically happy about the status of the U.S. Men right now.
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Me as well. The US men are hitting all their markers
 
Tavi said:
Which is pretty sad, isn’t it - as is the fact that none of us have rushed to analyze matchups, people’s chances at the GPF, etc. For me it’s lack of time (super busy at work) but I almost wonder if that’s the case for others or if there’s an overall loss of interest in US men. When I have more time, I’ll hopefully contribute something to the discussion, but in meantime would love to hear others’ thoughts!
Click to expand...

I doubt that it's a loss of interest in U.S. men. Not with two U.S. men on the most recent Worlds podium, after years and years of drought happening even at a time when there was no shortage of prodigiously talented, stylish U.S. men (albeit many of them lacked quantity and consistency with almighty quads). But, no longer. :D

There are quads, talent, style, and versatility galore among U.S. men, with the amazing and groundbreaking Nathan Chen leading the onslaught. :respec:
 
Vincent's latest IG post shows him back in Osaka with skaters from Mie Hamada's group: https://www.instagram.com/p/By8o9j3HlaT/

Last month's GS article on Tomoki: https://www.goldenskate.com/2019/05/tomoki-hiwatashi/
The skater, who is coached by Christy Krall and Damon Allen, plans to continue working on a second quad for next season. Although he’s toying with the quad Lutz, his second jump will more than likely be a solo quad toe.
“I’m not actually able to land it yet (Lutz). I’m not like Nathan (Chen) or Vincent (Zhou), I’m just taking baby steps,” he explained. “I really love how Jason (Brown) and Yuzuru (Hanyu) skate. There are many styles to many people, and the way Nathan and Vincent does it, it matches their style, and the way Jason and Yuzuru does it, it matches their style, too. The way I’m trying to go is slowly take my step into the quad and focus on my skating skills and presentation that I’ve always been kind of lacking. It’s really nothing that can be done fast.”
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Program music and/or choreographers that have been announced so far for the 6 U.S. Grand Prix men:

Nathan recently worked with Shae-Lynn Bourne in South Carolina (SP? music not yet announced): Back in April he also mentioned he might be working with Marie-France Dubreuil again.

Vincent's FS is to the Cloud Atlas OST and choreographed by Lori Nichol:
Jason's SP is to "I Can’t Go On Without You" by KALEO, choreo. by Rohene Ward (clip with Rohene's :lol: commentary):
www.instagram.com

Jason Brown on Instagram: “Nothing gets by Rohene, and nothing ever will! ? • New short program in the works! ?(Emphasis on the WORKS!) ?? 新しいショートプログラムでは！ • Short…”

443 Likes, 14 Comments - Jason Brown (@jasonbskates) on Instagram: “Nothing gets by Rohene, and nothing ever will! ? • New short program in the works! ?(Emphasis on…”
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
FS is to Schindler's List, choreo. by David Wilson (clips):
Camden's SP is to "Caruso" performed by Josh Groban, choreo. by Josh Farris;
FS is Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence / Rain by Ryuichi Sakamoto, choreo. by Stéphane Lambiel.

Tomoki's FS was choreographed by Tom Dickson to Igor Stravinsky’s Petrushka (from GS article) "in which he will portray a puppet. The short program music is still to be determined, but the skater will have opportunities to go to Canada to spend time with Mark Pillay again."

Alex Krasnozhon was in Russia not long ago and worked with Artur Gachinski (photo with him at the Ice Palace rink in St. Petersburg): https://www.instagram.com/p/ByvzuHUJJPj/
SP: "Runaway" (from HBO's Westworld) by Ramin Djawadi & "Freedom" by Pharrell Williams; "Freedom" clip: FS: Dracula themed (multiple music selections/edits are listed on his website, linked from here http://figureskatersonline.com/alexkrasnozhon/skating/); clip from the end to "Archangel" by Two Steps from Hell: Choreographer: Alex Johnson

ETA Torgashev's program music posted in the previous thread (he will return for his final season on the JGP)::
Sylvia said:
Andrew revealed his program music on his website earlier today and that he choreographed his own programs: http://figureskatersonline.com/andrewtorgashev/my-2019-2020-season-programs-are/
SP: "Bloodstream" by Tokio Myers (includes "Clair de Lune")
FS: Giacomo Puccini's Tosca performed by Luciano Pavarotti
Click to expand...
 
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Sylvia said:
Speaking of Emmanuel Savary... here's his sneak peek short program clip with 4S that (I assume) he will debut at Broadmoor Open next week: https://www.instagram.com/p/By9BrBYnOTA/
Can anyone ID the music? I believe he may have worked again with choreographer Evgeni Platov but I'm not sure.
Click to expand...

I don't know the artist covering the song, but the piece itself is a Christmas carol: Oh Come, Oh Come Emanuel
 
So for those of you who are ecstatic about the current US men’s field and think we have lot of GP / JGP medal contenders: why aren’t we talking about those just-released GP assignments, about who’s facing the toughest competition, about who needs to do what next season? Why aren’t we talking about what they did last season? I mean Vincent went from having Tom Z yelling at judges about < calls to scoring nearly 300 at Worlds. Jason made a coaching change, was second in the SP at Worlds and fell apart in the free. And still had no quad. Tomoki is rising. Camden is a question mark. I have grown to hate the word “Yale.”
 
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natsulian said:
The ladies are the only ones who are truly on the struggle bus...
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Sadly, I think this struggle is partly due to fs politics and the crazy deep fields in Russia and Japan. As well, there's uber fine talent in South Korea, with China on the lurk stealing whatever talent they can from U.S. lower levels to make a push for a team medal in Beijing.

Our U.S. ladies do not lack in talent -- they never have. It has been more trying to dig out of MK's hefty shadow coupled with political backlash for the dominant MK years, and the PCS politiking of Rus-fed to support technically talented off-the-assembly line Russian ladies. Add in the competitive nerves shortcomings of some talented U.S. ladies and the brief bright lights rise impact of Canadian ladies: Kaetlyn Osmond and Gabby Daleman, among some other factors, and you end up with the current scenario.

In a perfect world, Amber Glenn would be grabbing gold consistently and taking no prisoners, ably backed up by Tennell, Bell, et al. As a matter of fact, Gracie Gold and Mirai Nagasu should have been our 1-2 punch top of the podium 'slay' sisters for quite awhile, with Ash Swag and Courtney Hicks (and even Angela Wang) sweeping up the leftovers. There's no absence of talent. It's just a whole bunch of pesky other factors. It's not that simple. But when we get right down to it, U.S. ladies have to deliver and simply forget about the ridiculous out-sized scrutiny and often unfair criticism.

ETA: And I even forgot to mention the very talented Polina Edmunds who ran into nagging injury timeouts and growth adjustment issues in her brief comeback.
 
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When I was at US Nationals this year I felt very much like a whole warm-up group was "missing" - which to an extent it was. The massive difference between the other US men - who were all quite nice, pleasant skaters - and the top three or four (Jason, Nathan, Tomoki, Vincent) was significant and evident. Now, I'm sure many of the younger US men are working on this - but the sort of post-Olympic gutting that the US men saw will take time to recover from. It's only natural.
 
^^ For me, that only means you are missing some familiar faces we have been so used to following for so many years. There's not any absence of talent developing and on the rise. Riches abound with skaters like Camden, Tomoki, and Alexei eager to make some headway in the senior ranks toe-to-toe with top competitors, Jason, Vincent and Nathan. And also with Torgashev, Savary, Dinh Tran, Maxim Naumov et al, on the rise.

Great skaters like Adam, Jeremy, Richard Dornbush, Alex Johnson, Ross, Max, Grant, Tim Dolenksy, and even the unforgettable Armin Mahbahnoozadeh (along with Keegan Messing who found major opportunities in Canada) are sorely missed for who they are and for all the memorable moments they gave us. But skaters eventually move on, leaving behind opportunities and big boots to fill, eagerly taken up by the next generation.

ETA:
Thanks for your updated program summary @Sylvia. LOL at Jason's post about Rohene never missing anything. Rohene is quite the brilliant taskmaster, and a down-to-the-bone fantastic choreographer!
 
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Tavi said:
So for those of you who are ecstatic about the current US men’s field and think we have lot of GP / JGP medal contenders: why aren’t we talking about those just-released GP assignments, about who’s facing the toughest competition, about who needs to do what next season?
Click to expand...

I guess for me because I think the guys moving up out of juniors need the experience. I have very calm, rational hopes for them. Get their feet wet, experience the bumps and challenges of moving into the senior field.

Zero hype from me.

I've never seen the point in discussing what people "need" to be more competitive. I mean, all the guys know what they need to be competitive with those top guys, but very few human beings in the world are physically capable of it; and force of will does not make it happen. It took 2 quadrennium to get an athlete who could compete for a medal in the men's field. (And I'm very happy we have some!) I'm sure the guys are all working as hard as they can, and will bring to the table what they can do. As far as the top two, seriously, these guys are driven. They don't need my suggestions, LOL.

Tavi said:
Why aren’t we talking about what they did last season?
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Because we talked about it all last season? I don't know, Tavi. I really cannot sit through the Vincent-rotation conversation again, but if you want to discuss something else we haven't throttled to death, by all means, post it in the thread Sylvia linked or feel free to start a new men's general discussion thread in the Trash Can. And I'll check in. Conversation during the off-season is always nice.
 
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Dobre said:
I guess for me because I think the guys moving up out of juniors need the experience. I have very calm, rational hopes for them. Get their feet wet, experience the bumps and challenges of moving into the senior field.

Zero hype from me.

I've never seen the point in discussing what people "need" to be more competitive. I mean, all the guys know what they need to be competitive with those top guys, but very few human beings in the world are physically capable of it; and force of will does not make it happen. It took 2 quadrennium to get an athlete who could compete for a medal in the men's field. (And I'm very happy we have some!) I'm sure the guys are all working as hard as they can, and will bring to the table what they can do. As far as the top two, seriously, these guys are driven. They don't need my suggestions, LOL.



Because we talked about it all last season? I don't know, Tavi. I really cannot sit through the Vincent-rotation conversation again, but if you want to discuss something else we haven't throttled to death, by all means, post it in the thread Sylvia linked or feel free to start a new men's general discussion thread in the Trash Can. And I'll check in. Conversation during the off-season is always nice.
Click to expand...

I think perhaps you’re again misunderstanding me. I threw those things out as examples, or conversation starters, not as an agenda for topics to be discussed.
 
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