The Dance Hall 6: We're All Off Our Rockers 2018-2019

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Michalle said:
I read the P/C thread b/c in general I do like them (although not as much as other teams) and also it is the off-season and there is simply not very much content around at the moment - I doubt I will read it much once the season starts again. But I see nothing in there that bothers me, it is the posts in THIS thread that I take issue with, specifically those that seemed to target other teams.
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To your last point, I repeat this.

laviemn said:
The discussion in the last few pages has been about what other top teams could do to rise higher, and it's inevitable and reasonable to compare them to the team that is currently at the very top. If Sinitsina/Katsalapov were the reigning 4 time World Champions, people would be measuring other teams by their standard.
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Michalle said:
I read the P/C thread b/c in general I do like them (although not as much as other teams) and also it is the off-season and there is simply not very much content around at the moment - I doubt I will read it much once the season starts again.
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Have you considered the royalty thread?

Off-season game: which skater is the most like which royal.
 
Dobre said:
I think they should really consider talking to Fontana & Zimmerman. Because the music they are digging up for James & Cipres is right up H&D's alley. And I would go get some outside choreography--try and talk Bourne or Kerr into taking the plunge and doing a dance program. I really think Dubreil & Lauzon have demonstrated the ability to tweak and polish someone else's choreography. Pick someone with a modern & less in-house vibe to do the bones of the FD and have the in-house experts polish & make sure it is to "dance-code." (I'm not familiar with anything by the Scorpions that hasn't already been used, but I've had enough of the pieces that have been).
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I think Bourne choregraphed some of Weaver/Poje's programs?

Maybe the WTT prize money will make it possible for next season, but I think H/D just don't have the money to go outside for choreo. They've been very open about her mom making her costumes because that's what they can afford.
 
laviemn said:
I think Bourne choregraphed some of Weaver/Poje's programs?

Maybe the WTT prize money will make it possible for next season, but I think H/D just don't have the money to go outside for choreo. They've been very open about her mom making her costumes because that's what they can afford.
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Her mother is quite talented. Madison's costumes look professional and move beautifully.
 
laviemn said:
I think H/D just don't have the money to go outside for choreo. They've been very open about her mom making her costumes because that's what they can afford.
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I thought they used her mom since she has always done it and it is something they like doing together. Maybe in the past it has been due to money but in the past few seasons they have been earning a lot of competition money and as the top or one of the top US teams for the past few seasons I think the federation must also be giving them a decent sum.
 
Madison would be wise to use some of her earnings from comps and shows this year on better costumes. Her dresses this year were....not the best. The red dress she wore for the RD most of the season moved well but that detail on the illusion fabric on the back which looked like a large tattoo was odd, and the RD dress at Nats looked like a curtain. And her FD dress was awful....the cut and the color, not flattering and it made her blend into the ice.

I don't think their music choice was horrible but it wasn't anything original, we've seen it before. And doing the same curve lift for 3 seasons also isn't very convincing to the judges. To be one of the top teams in the world, you have to keep evolving (in a way that pleases the judges).

As far as the Worlds results, they were predictable - the countries if not the skaters - at the beginning of the season when the (former East bloc heavy) judging panel was announced. H/D actually got a bit lucky in that the tech panel basically abdicated their responsibility to the judges in the RD by giving the top 8(?) teams L4 on all elements. They struggled with the TR all season. The Finnstep is also difficult, although the skaters won't be doing the full pattern. They don't quite have the effortless flow that judges like to see, but their speed should help.
 
sharsk8s said:
marina is practically blacklisted by judging panels
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??? Marina & Massimo's teams almost all did very well last season. Muramoto & Reed became the first dance team representing an Asian country to medal at 4CCs, finished 11th at Worlds, and probably passed/repassed more teams than anyone else from the season before. Lorenz & Polizoakis moved up after switching to her--not just because of retirements. Both teams climbed over teams that were still competing. The Shibs won two GPs, medaled at the GPF, led the U.S. Olympic Team to bronze, and medaled in the dance event at the Olympics. Lewis & Bye switched to her after a loss to Gropman & Somerville and two Canadian junior teams on the JGP and ultimately wrapped up their season by splitting results with the Greens and finishing 7th at their first Junior Worlds. Reed & Ambrulevicius made the FD cut at their first World Championships. Muller & Dieck were a solid number two for Germany last year, a position they couldn't hold onto this season. Buckley & Chen won silver at Nationals in intermediates. These teams were earning levels, skating solidly, and scoring well against their competition.

It seems pretty clear that Marina is the one that has chosen to change her lifestyle since last season.
 
Re-watching Shevchenko/Eremenko's free (again, uh-oh, there's nothing more dangerous than getting so attached to such a young team), it occurs to me that I wouldn't mind seeing Sin/Kats explore something in that style, which is sort of ironic since S/E's choreography was done by Bukin's girlfriend, I think! I also really like that it apparently includes a song in Lithuanian - I would love to see less English (and occasionally French) and more diversity in the lyrics we see (or more accurately, hear!). Of course that does potentially take us into these cultural appropriation issues I guess if you're not careful, depending on who is trying what.
 
laviemn said:
I think Bourne choregraphed some of Weaver/Poje's programs?

Maybe the WTT prize money will make it possible for next season, but I think H/D just don't have the money to go outside for choreo. They've been very open about her mom making her costumes because that's what they can afford.
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Well they didn’t medal at all at 4CCs because of that stationary lift problem, so I don’t know. That was a lot prize $ foregone. It’s gotta be expensive training in Montreal.

The problem for them this year is that they didn’t have any ideas for their free dance to give their team. I hope they are thinking more strategically for the coming year.
 
skatfan said:
The problem for them this year is that they didn’t have any ideas for their free dance to give their team. I hope they are thinking more strategically for the coming year.
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I fully blame Hubbell & Donohue for their music selection, but that wasn't entirely the problem. You would have thought Marie-France would have learned from V&M's experience last year that you can't just let a program die off at the end. There needs to be some build in the music. Why did it take all season to make the same change to R&J that it took all season to make to Moulin Rouge last year?
 
Dobre said:
I fully blame Hubbell & Donohue for their music selection, but that wasn't entirely the problem. You would have thought Marie-France would have learned from V&M's experience last year that you can't just let a program die off at the end. There needs to be some build in the music. Why did it take all season to make the same change to R&J that it took all season to make to Moulin Rouge last year?
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Well the beginning of the program was also problematic, so they worked that part first. I can understand that they probably didn’t have time to change it all at once. But yeah, the ending should have been nixed before it was finished.
 
Completely unrelated and might have been already posted too, aren't I annoying :D ? But have you @Dobre worked your magic and made the list of aging out/moving to senior juniors yet ? Again sorry if I missed it. I was wondering about Lajoie/Lagha.
 
cocotaffy said:
Completely unrelated and might have been already posted too, aren't I annoying :D ? But have you @Dobre worked your magic and made the list of aging out/moving to senior juniors yet ? Again sorry if I missed it. I was wondering about Lajoie/Lagha.
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They aren't aging out, but they've already said they will move senior.

Teams aging out include Shevchenko/Eremenko, Khudaiberdieva/Nazarov, Fabbri/Ayer, Lopareva/Brissaud, Fisher/Malette-Paquette and Stairs/Graham.

Other teams who would have aged out have split, like Haines/Koszuta.
 
Dobre said:
I fully blame Hubbell & Donohue for their music selection, but that wasn't entirely the problem. You would have thought Marie-France would have learned from V&M's experience last year that you can't just let a program die off at the end. There needs to be some build in the music. Why did it take all season to make the same change to R&J that it took all season to make to Moulin Rouge last year?
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I think the coaches share the blame in this. H/D were having trouble picking something, they threw out the idea, and I think it was Romain who signed off on it. I think if they’d been with Zoueva, Shpilband, or Camerlengo, the RJ idea would have been met with a “no” and suggestions of other things to consider instead. If I’m not mistaken, when V/M once came to her with the idea to do RJ, Zoueva did shoot it down because she thought they were too old for it.

H/D should have put some more effort in to the choice, but so should have their team. It is literally one of the things they are paid to do.

I also agree with Debbie S. on the costumes. I get that it’s something her mom has always done, and there have been a couple I’ve liked over the years, but there have been a lot of misses with cut, color, style. It’s one of those things that probably shouldn’t factor in, but it does because it is ice dance. Just to keep to relatively recent (last 5 years) NA top ice dance—Tessa Virtue, Meryl Davis, Maia Shibutani, Kaitlyn Weaver, Madison Chock, Alexandra Paul, and Laurence Fournier Beaudry (as of this season) have all always shown up in dresses that make them look like a million bucks. I love H/D, but the mom-made costumes miss far more than they hit.
 
While Madison's mom does make many of her costumes, she has used professional costume designers at times, and Madison comes up with the designs herself. While I wasn't wild about her dresses this season, or in all honesty most of her costumes over the years, I've never gotten the impression that she wears costumes she doesn't like. I think she has a somewhat offbeat sense of fashion that doesn't always translate well to the ice, and this is more or less how I feel about H/D's programs. They always seem to like their material, but whether it flatters them is... Well, it's hit or miss.
 
From what I understand H/D wanted to challenge themselves with a story driven FD. It was an experiment which I think showed their limitations. But I think it was worthwhile and valuable AND the right time to try it. The season following an Olympics is the time for some teams to make their move and others to try something different. They still placed third. I mean even if that program made you emotional and you cried it was obvious this season that S/K were going to beat them (and if they messed up they had S/B on standby to fill in that spot).

I also wouldn't be so sure as some of you are that P/C have a smooth ride to Olympic gold. I've seen this story before ;)
 
starrynight said:
I wonder if Gadbois is more expensive or the same price as other dance schools ... given how fashionable it is?
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I don't know about exact prices, but one thing that came out in an interview earlier this season - I can't remember who it was thought - is that they've set it up so you only pay for what you use, so the skaters decide how much coaching time, ice time etc they want and they know the costs in advance. It at least lets them cut their coaching coat to suit their budget!

The communication with the 2019-20 Technical Rules is out at last. It's rather easier to make sense of the details when they're written down than it was trying to follow that livestreamed meeting...
 
The ISU has specified what counts as a musical/operetta, notably:
Musical and/or Operetta - Can be a play (on the stage) or film in which music, singing and/or dancing play an essential part "to tell the story". Juke Box Musicals are allowed (Examples - Mamma Mia, Jersey Boys)

Music from movie soundtracks which are not movie musicals such as Mr. and Mrs. Smith, A Star is Born or soundtrack music from Star Wars, James Bond are “compilations of music/songs/tracks” and not a “musical”.
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cocotaffy said:
@Dobre worked your magic and made the list of aging out/moving to senior juniors yet ? Again sorry if I missed it. I was wondering about Lajoie/Lagha.
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It's quite a long list this year. I did make one but it was on a different thread. Ah, found it!

Dance:
I've been known to get the dates wrong before, but here's my best attempt. Not comprehensive, but I think does include everyone from Junior Worlds that ages up plus a number of other teams on the JGP. Wow, there are a lot if I've done my math correctly.

Lajoie & Lagha don't age up but are planning to move up at least at Nationals (per various posters who have been following their interviews better than me). I assume moving up for the GP also as they now have the score they needed to guarantee one spot & are highly likely to get a host one also, though Canada could elect to have them fight for that over the summer.
Khudaberdieva & Nazarov (rumored on the Russian boards to be splitting but no confirmation & the Russian boards have been wrong before)
Shevchenko & Eremenko (per the number crunchers, they have a guaranteed GP spot via World Standings)
Fabbri & Ayer
Lopareva & Brissaud
Fisher & Mallette-Paquette
Stairs & Graham
Kalehanova & Palkhouski
Matthaei & Pfisterer
Polishook & Kizala
Friend & Badoui
Oliver & Paleev
Palfreyman & McCreary
Simitsakos & Wong
Guo & Zhao
Seclet-Monchot & Manceaux
Kuts & Mikhailov (who have now split)
Haines & Koszuta (split)
Efimova & Petrov (split)
Peterson & Schuster (split)
Orihara & Royer (I never saw confirmation on her age, but I was told she was aging up & they've split regardless)


Other splits since the JGP, some of which may have athletes that were aging up and several of them which did not. I had these teams listed in the "split" thread, rather than the aging up one so I haven't bothered to look up everyone's ages:

Gropman & Somerville
Pankova & Spiridinov
Buga & Pokhilyuk
Gunter & Wein (she retired)
Wolfkostin & Zhao
Amoia & Becker
Luft & Kazimov
Tsoi & Wang

The Greens are off the ISP, which pretty much means we probably won't see them compete together on the JGP this season, though beyond that, we don't know what's up yet.
 
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So a tv show musical episode or something like My Crazy Ex-Girlfriend is out? (I don't seriously want anyone to skate to this, just curious if it's been addressed or it should be assumed from tv not being mentioned in the above statement).
 
Wyliefan said:
In my view, skaters who think that the thing to do with Bach is to emote all over the place, are not going to challenge skaters like P/C who have an innate sense of music and how to respond to it. JMHO. The judges may not see it that way.

(But if they don't, they're wrong. :p )
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SinKats don't emote all over the place to Bach. I think they a good job with Bach with appropriate movement to the music, it's the second piece where they emote all over the place, and the problem is the crappy choreography in that choreo step sequence
 
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