Coughlin's Safe Sport Status Changed to Interim Suspension

[Frau Muller]

I don't know the exact procedures, but I reckon they do take time. In any case I can't wait for the confirmation of the actual facts of his death.
And I would rather keep an open, questioning/skeptical mind than swallow everything that's in the media/on the Net uncritically. Anyway, time will tell hopefully.

Sadly, he did die...not a fake suicide like the guy who jumped out a plane but had a hidden parachute in the 1970s. The latest CB/USA Today article states the time & date when Kansas City Police recovered John’s body from the place where he died (his father’s house). It hurts just to type this.

Editing to add: I may have misunderstood your post about faked suicide. As someone else answered, there’ll surely be an autopsy.

 

[peibeck]

I've seen people in this forum speculate that the accusers are on a witch hunt against John Coughlin, that they are disgruntled diva skate moms, etc.

I'd like to add some additional thoughts on this line of thought, which I agree with you @breathesgelatin , is quite confounding.

On both SafeSport and the USOC Safe Sport policy website it clearly notes that people making false accusations are subject to both civil and criminal punishment. Additionally, even it if wasn't before, this case is NOW in the hands of police/civil authorities due to his suicide. Police will speak with John's family, and likely the people investigating him and possibly his accusers as well. If the police credibly feel the accusers have made false accusations which lead to a suicide, they could take this evidence to prosecutors to consider charges. If the police feel like the SafeSport investigation was credible, going to the scene of the suicide and identifying the victim is likely the last you will know of their investigation.

 

[skatfan]

I’ve stayed silent for most of this discussion as I don’t have enough information to form an opinion. I hope the victims receive the help they need regardless of what happened.

But, suicide is not black and white. It’s not something that only the someone guilty would commit. I cannot fathom the mental anguish a person would have to feel to see death as the only answer. We need to talk about mental health. We need to talk about suicide.

Exactly. If Coughlin was depressed or had other mental difficulties already, this was easily enough stress to cause him to consider suicide. We don't know what happened and his suicide will inevitably leave a lot of questions. Very sad.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Why is it wrong?

If you were accused of something and subsequently suspended from your job, would you want to know why? And what the accusation was? In this case, perhaps protecting identities of the accusers and integrity of the investigation took precedence. But generally speaking, I can see why the accused would want to know what he's being accused of.

 

[el henry]

I wouldn't do it in public and create an environment where memorializing an abuser makes it harder for future victims to speak out from fear they won't be believed.

In no way shape or form do tributes from friends stop complainants from coming forward.

To say that trivializes abuse and the courage it takes to come forward.

If I were a skater who knew John I would definitely post my grief, love and hurt in public. And I wouldn’t give a rat’s patootie about social media trolls who criticize me (and I loved Mervin Tran telling one of them to back the f*** off of criticizing KMT. I would hope he would come to my comments)

 

[cmk]

I am in an online support group for those who lost loved ones to suicide. From time to time a newcomer joins the group and asks how we lost our loved one. I read from a lot of posts that moms and grandmothers used a gun. Not that many for pills unless accompanied by hanging or gunshot because as you wrote, pills do leave space for recovery.

I lost my Aunt to suicide when I was in grade school. She had tried pills, been to countless doctors, was on the verge of losing her job, and had been hospitalized a few times. She probably would of been diagnosed as bipolar if her doctors had known what it was back then. She then used her car to commit suicide. My mom ended up having to handle the estate because my grandpa was too upset to do it.

 

[CaliSteve]

If you were accused of something and subsequently suspended from your job, would you want to know why? And what the accusation was? In this case, perhaps protecting identities of the accusers and integrity of the investigation took precedence. But generally speaking, I can see why the accused would want to know what he's being accused of.

I believe the accused are told the nature of the investigation.

 

[yfbg722]

Why is it wrong?

I feel he had the right to know what he was accused of and to defend himself. Multiple sources have indicated that neither of these were extended to him. I find that troubling.

 

[CaliSteve]

I feel he had the right to know what he was accused of and to defend himself. Multiple sources have indicated that neither of these were extended to him. I find that troubling.

I believe he was informed of the nature of the investigation.

 

[yfbg722]

I believe he was informed of the nature of the investigation.

Do you know this for a fact? I've been told he didn't. Who knows the truth?

 

[puglover]

People are complex! It is possible for someone to be funny, talented, well liked and have a dark side (Bill Cosby). In a sport as insular as figure skating with such a profound power inequity, everything done should be above board. I believe coaches know this. I remember a lovely older male coach at our club always being very concerned about touching young skaters, even if he was trying to adjust their body positions.

Also, I think it is possible to not be a fan of Dave L. or his podcasts but recognize that he is just a messenger here and if it hadn't been him, somebody was going to put this out there.

 

[Lanie]

The automatic assumptions here when we do not know what he was accused of, just assumptions made by anonymous sources, are still a problem. And you know what? If it did happen it is a damn shame that he will not be punished by with full extent of the law and those abused could possibly never see closure. But perhaps this will cause USFS to investigate things thoroughly. To do the right thing. To start chipping away at the toxic culture. To protect anyone who could be in a situation of abuse and take care of them, give them the resources, love, and support they so deserve and need. As I said before I was abused as a child by a doctor. Nobody believed me. Not even my mom, who took me to the appointments and sat outside when he kicked her out to ostensibly "examine me". So I'm not coming from it at a blame-the-victim perspective, and to insinuate that of posters kinda sucks.

I liked John and I know people who knew him very well, who are grieving and truly shocked because they'd never have EVER suspected this about him. They're in pain not only because a friend killed themselves but maybe they didn't do enough to help. Or know what was going on behind closed doors, could they have done anything to stop abuse if he was committing it? If I had a friend who was accused of such things, and thought I knew them so well, then they killed themselves, I'd be grieving in so many different ways. For a life lost, for a friend I thought I knew, did I notice anything and brush it off, ergo am I somehow culpable in a way, etc. To accuse the skaters of grieving their friend--and perhaps a friend they thought they knew but really didn't--is pretty damned low.

But to automatically assume because of one line comment in an article as if it is truth when we truly don't know is pretty crappy. Were I John and let's say I'm innocent but I can't say a damn thing or defend myself and I've lost my livelihood, I'd probably be tempted to kill myself too. It's fcuking tragic all the way around, for abuse survivors as well as for the innocent who have been condemned by the social media judge, jury, and executioner. We. Just. Don't. Know.

 

[overedge]

@yfbg722 If the accusations were serious enough and substantial enough to justify the investigation continuing, and to justify the change in the suspension status, there is no way that he couldn't be aware of what they involved.

 

[believed]

In no way shape or form do tributes from friends stop complainants from coming forward.

To say that trivializes abuse and the courage it takes to come forward.

If I were a skater who knew John I would definitely post my grief, love and hurt in public. And I wouldn’t give a rat’s patootie about social media trolls who criticize me (and I loved Mervin Tran telling one of them to back the f*** off of criticizing KMT. I would hope he would come to my comments)

It does contribute to a culture that makes survivors feel like they should not or could not tell someone about the abuse they suffered though.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

I believe he was informed of the nature of the investigation.

What does that mean to be informed about the nature of the investigation? You are being investigated for inappropriate sexual conduct. Go defend yourself. I get why he wasn't given the details, if those details would expose the victims, or compromise the investigation in any way. But being informed of the nature of the investigation doesn't mean much as far as defending oneself goes. In this case, once the suspension was handed, I am sure John was given enough information to understand why the suspension was warranted.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

It does contribute to a culture that makes survivors feel like they should not or could not tell someone about the abuse they suffered though.

How? Survivors aren't responsible for his death, nor do they have anything to do with his other relationships. If John's friends condemn the accusers, that's different. That does contribute to the culture of abuse.

 

[Clarys91]

I guess I'm not too smart. Can you please explain further what you mean?

Everybody on the Net is responding as if it's certain that he committed suicide, yet if it's 'apparent', then nothing is confirmed, and we essentially don't know anything about what happened to him.

 

[peibeck]

I feel he had the right to know what he was accused of and to defend himself. Multiple sources have indicated that neither of these were extended to him. I find that troubling.

I find that EXTREMELY unlikely. From SafeSport's Practices and Procedures:

If the Office determines that a formal resolution process is necessary, it will appoint trained investigators, usually within two business days of determining that a formal resolution should proceed. The number of investigators and the length of the investigation will depend on the nature and/or complexity of the matter.

1. The investigator(s) take the following steps:

a. Seek to notify the Reporting Party that the Office is conducting an investigation into the possible Code Violation and inform the Reporting Party of the right to meet with the investigator and present evidence in support of the complaint along with the names and/or contact information of any potential witnesses with direct knowledge of the allegations.

b. Seek to interview the Responding Party and advise the Responding Party of the nature of the allegation before making a determination. The Responding Party will be provided the opportunity to present a response to the allegations, including evidence and the names and/or contact information of potential witnesses with direct knowledge of the allegation.

c. Seek to interview witnesses with direct knowledge of the allegations.

d. Seek evidence and take any other action as the investigator may deem relevant to the investigation.

e. Review the evidence provided by a Third-party Reporter, the Reporting Party, the Responding Party or any other source.

f. Document all investigative efforts, including but not limited to interviews, receipt of relevant documentation, database searches, and review and collection of other publicly-available information (e.g., social media, public records).

 

[overedge]

Everybody on the Net is responding as if it's certain that he committed suicide, yet if it's 'apparent', then nothing is confirmed, and we essentially don't know anything about what happened to him.

His own sister said on Facebook that was what happened.

 

[Prancer]

Everybody on the Net is responding as if it's certain that he committed suicide, yet if it's 'apparent', then nothing is confirmed, and we essentially don't know anything about what happened to him.

I've told you to drop this. This is your second warning. If there is a third warning, it will be in the form of a suspension.

 

[el henry]

It does contribute to a culture that makes survivors feel like they should not or could not tell someone about the abuse they suffered though.

I don’t see that at all. Why not?
Because of the ETA: alleged perpetrator kills himself, his friends will be sad?

Makes no sense.

USFS, skating directors, coaches, all should support, encourage and help complainants. Complainants should be protected at every step in the process.

But anyone who attacks a skater on social media because they havent grieved in a way that conforms to their preconceptions? That contributes to nothing except bashing skaters who have done nothing wrong.

 

[Clarys91]

You can think whatever you like. But I see no merit in having baseless conspiracy theories being tossed out there because you imagine yourself a critical thinker.

Then I guess you see no merit in having an open democratic discussion with diverse opinions in an online forum

 

[SpeedySucks]

@yfbg722 If the accusations were serious enough and substantial enough to justify the investigation continuing, and to justify the change in the suspension status, there is no way that he couldn't be aware of what they involved.

I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if John didn’t know the exact nature of the allegations. When gymnast Alex Naddour was suspended by SafeSport, he learned of the allegations and suspension from Twitter, if his account is to be believed. I would not be shocked if John had not been given any details of the new allegations that surfaced in the last few weeks.

 

[Prancer]

Then I guess you see no merit in having an open democratic discussion with diverse opinions in an online forum

Yes, that's it exactly.

 

[overedge]

@SpeedySucks that's one person's version of what happened to them. @peibeck has posted the SafeSport policy on information given to the subject of complaints.

 

[Clarys91]

I've told you to drop this. This is your second warning. If there is a third warning, it will be in the form of a suspension.

I was just responding to a question about it. And I myself genuinely did not understand the use of 'apparent' in the report. I didn't see any harm in asking the community here about it.
So I guess we are not allowed to raise questions about this case in this forum.

 

[Willin]

@Clarys91 No. @Prancer just sees no merit in entertaining trolls and/or crazy conspiracy theories from trolls.

I wouldn't do it in public and create an environment where memorializing an abuser makes it harder for future victims to speak out from fear they won't be believed.

I think it's perfectly fine. I don't think any of the skaters are excusing his actions, but rather mourning the person they actually knew. I think Mervin was the best at articulating that: he loved John as a person, but he won't excuse John's actions, discount the accusations, or blame the accusers.

I also think that it should be noted that a lot of skaters aren't publicly memorializing him. I've only seen Gracie, Adam, and Mervin so far. USFSA themselves posted an announcement but hasn't said anything more or posted any articles on their websites (probably because it reflects negatively on them for allowing him to run all the kids camps despite the rumors that they would have probably heard). It will be interesting to see what happens at Nationals, as Mervin implied that at least one victim will be there. I think that will be the real test: whether or not USFSA memorializes him in any way.

TBH I don't know if I think this will necessarily stop victims from stepping forward. I think the wider skating culture of secrecy and propping up top skaters/coaches - even the ones who are bad as humans - will stop victims. Instead, I hope this might spark a wider discussion of the need to stop ignoring rumors going around. While many are malicious or obviously false, rumors of sexual misconduct should be taken seriously.

 

[SpeedySucks]

@SpeedySucks that's one person's version of what happened to them. @peibeck has posted the SafeSport policy on information given to the subject of complaints.

Just because SafeSport has a policy doesn’t mean they are following it.

 

[Prancer]

I was just responding to a question about it. And I myself genuinely did not understand the use of 'apparent' in the report. I didn't see any harm in asking the community here about it.

You didn't ask--you posted baseless speculation. And are persisting in this line even after your non-question was answered.

If you want to continue this, send me a PM.

 

[paw96]

I was just responding to a question about it. And I myself genuinely did not understand the use of 'apparent' in the report. I didn't see any harm in asking the community here about it.
So I guess we are not allowed to raise questions about this case in this forum.

Ladies and gentlemen, this is sealioning