American Figure Skater Crashes Headfirst Into The Ice, Referee Allows Her To Continue

[barbk]

I think each situation is different. This one turned out ok, so i'll leave it at that.

Based on what you've seen - you have no idea how it will really turn out.

I fell and hit my head while ice skating and blacked out for a few seconds. After that, I got up (wobbily), got to the pond edge, got my skates off, and woozily made it back up the hill to my grandmother's home. I was still dizzy and queasy the next day. After a two-hour drive home, a visit to the doctor revealed blood visible in my ear. After an admission to the hospital I was diagnosed with a skull fracture and a concussion. I spent several weeks in the hospital, had double vision for a time, balance issues, many headaches, and thinking hurt. Meanwhile, on the outside, I looked fine.

 

[2sk8]

Now, please remember, you FSU-ers, and for those who do not know me- I am a former pair skater, and I often have very strong opinions about this sport. I have read all the responses here and most are simply a waste of time to read.

TIMOTHY- AS A PAIR SKATER YOUR FIRST JOB IS TO PROTECT YOUR PARTNER. PERIOD. DUDE, SHE HIT HER HEAD AND WAS OUT COLD - UNCONCIOUS - IT WAS YOUR DUTY TO STOP AND GO TO THE REFEREE AND PROTECT HER.

TIMOTHY IS THE ONE AT FAULT. PERIOD. HE WAS THE ONLY ONE ON THE ICE WITH SOUND MIND - SHE WAS UNDER CONCUSSION. IT WAS HIS DUTY TO GO TO THE REFERREE AND GET HER MEDICAL HELP. NOT CONTINUE.

TIMOTHY - IS YOUR IQ 50?

Parent of a guy pair skater here - You essentially got it right, but for 2 things:

- I wouldn't say other's posts are a waste of time. This is an important issue that needs more discussion and ACTION. Most don't have your experience on this.

- I wouldn't insult Timothy's intelligence - my son has 1st aid & additional certifications that include how to (and how NOT to) deal with a head injury, but that has NOTHING to do with what is required to be a pair skater - just his choice to learn. Maybe Timothy really had no clue, not through his own fault, but through lack of instruction?

But - your 1st sentence - TOTALLY ON POINT and I'm still baffled how they were allowed to continue.

 

[maatTheViking]

Or the boards.

I admit I was worried for Keagan Messing after his fall - tumble - slam into boards. He didn’t hit his head directly from what I saw, but there was a lot of force.

 

[libecha]

I always heard that not only do you not move the head or neck of someone who has had a fall like this (unless the location they are in is so unsafe that it’s a bigger risk to leave them, like a fire), it is a bad idea to help someone up. If a person can’t get on their feet under their own power after a fall, that right there is an indication of a problem. I work in a school and we’ve always been told not to pick up a kid who falls for this reason. I know it’s instinct but it’s the wrong one.

People in general just need more first aid training.

 

[wickedwitch]

I always heard that not only do you not move the head or neck of someone who has had a fall like this (unless the location they are in is so unsafe that it’s a bigger risk to leave them, like a fire), it is a bad idea to help someone up. If a person can’t get on their feet under their own power after a fall, that right there is an indication of a problem. I work in a school and we’ve always been told not to pick up a kid who falls for this reason. I know it’s instinct but it’s the wrong one.

People in general just need more first aid training.

People who are in shock as Tim was should not be making the decisions. That's why it's imperative that the ref blows their whistle to stop them.

 

[cholla]

Would you consider sharing your story with TPTB who need to hear; and act on this issue, before the next incident?

As media, I plan to write an article about it, in relation to what happened in Zagreb. I know a few people at the I.S.U. They will be provided with a copy

 

[rfisher]

This isn't a defense of the referee, but she was back up on her feet in under 10 seconds. Those of us watching live didn't even have time to type anything other than "what a bad fall" before she was up. It's not as if she lay there 5 minutes. It was only in the slow motion replay from a camera angle closer to them, that you can see what she did and what Tim did. In the long distance camera shot, you couldn't see anything but her legs and Tim's back until she got back on her feet. The lift was over and he was sitting her down when whatever happened, happened. Depending on where the referee was standing, I have no idea if they had a close up view. Medical personnel were waiting for her as soon as she exited the ice. They had her in a soft cervical collar immediately and left for a hospital. It's easy to say what YOU would do when you weren't there. Not so easy to do it when you are.

 

[skatesindreams]

Thank you, cholla!
I hope that your article will be widely read; and heeded by those to whom it is sent.

As media, I plan to write an article about it, in relation to what happened in Zagreb. I know a few people at the I.S.U. They will be provided with a copy

 

[Spun Silver]

Switching gears a little, I am a bit concerned that Ashley's last Instagram post talked about resting up before getting ready for Nationals. Maybe that's absolutely fine, but it seems like a very quick call that she will be able to compete. The intensity of training for Nats and going after that one pair spot seems fearful. At least it makes me fearful. I hope she is being closely monitored.

 

[happycamper2554]

Switching gears a little, I am a bit concerned that Ashley's last Instagram post talked about resting up before getting ready for Nationals. Maybe that's absolutely fine, but it seems like a very quick call that she will be able to compete. The intensity of training for Nats and going after that one pair spot seems fearful. At least it makes me fearful. I hope she is being closely monitored.

I had the same thought. Since we only have one Worlds spot for pairs. I was thinking it might be better for them to call it a season and regroup. I'm concerned that they are not going to be prepared and something could happen like Tarah and Danny at 2017 Nationals. I'm a little more worried for him, how does he mentally pick her up again after what happened. Especially because lifts have always been a struggle for them.

 

[Willin]

I think perhaps we should quit practicing medicine from our living room? She may or may not have had a concussion. She may or may not have had other injuries.

However I am 100% sure that none of us can actually diagnosis from the TV (and if you really can why are you wasting that talent when it could be used to serve the world!)


And just in case LARRYSK8 WHY ARE YOU SHOUTING AT US? (Once again you may be a former pair skater, but YELLING and being judgmental are not generally effective methods of dealing with issues LOL! But it certainly does question your IQ)


And I say all this as someone who once was assumed to have had a major head injury from a fall. (I actually ran head first into dock when I fell waterskiing. I was probably going about 40 miles an hour when I hit too!) In spite of all the doom and gloom I actually either did not have any damage or it was so minor it's never created an issue. (yes I was hauled out of the water on a backboard.... After hours of poking and prodding it was decided I was fine...… a week later when I was hauled to the doctor again because "even though you feel fine something must be wrong" even my physicians agreed "she's fine" and I have never had any issues. Now I have no feeling in one finger from another waterskiing incident but my head survived.) And I know people who have had minor accidents that have had long term damage. As a result, I don't rush to judgement and I certainly don't think that 'just because I saw something on TV, I know what the diagnosis is" .


That said, I do think the referee should be suspended forever. And ISU needs to make it clear that something like this is an automatic STOP! I have seen other instances where I think that should have been applied. (Tarah hitting the boards at Nationals a few years ago comes to mind...) They can adapt the rules to say that if the Referee stops and medical says "it's not an issue" then the skater can restart without a mandatory deduction.

I don't think most of us are making diagnoses, but we are saying that any hit to the head any lying on the ice unmoving for more than a second might be indicative of a bigger problem. As you said, there are cases where it isn't, but we should always treat these things like a case that is indicative of a bigger problem in case. I think it was pretty obvious to anyone watching that the program should've been stopped and medical tests administered to determine if there was any problem.

As for allowing to restart without penalty, I don't think this is feasible unless it's something easily diagnosed and dealt with by rink-side medical staff like a muscle cramp. In those cases I think the ability to stop without a mandatory deduction should be implemented.
For other situations it's simply not feasible to do anything but automatically disqualify the competitor due to the delay any medical clearance would cause. To truly get a medical clearance for a concussion you'll need at the very least 24 hours of waiting to see if mental changes happen (dizziness, disorientation) and possibly imaging. Possible joint/back injuries may also need imaging or other diagnostic studies that would require the skater to leave the rink for tests. I don't think the competitions would want to be delayed the time it takes to get the skater to the hospital, have the tests, have the tests interpreted, and then be treated or disqualified.

 

[Twizzler]

As media, I plan to write an article about it, in relation to what happened in Zagreb. I know a few people at the I.S.U. They will be provided with a copy

Dating myself quite a bit, but perhaps you could include stories about Paul Binnebose (injured during practice) and Katie Wood (injured while skating in a Gala in Russia. Became deaf in one ear because head trauma from a fall out of a lift).

That these cases happened decades ago and there is seemingly no real protocol in place is alarming

 

[Tinami Amori]

Switching gears a little, I am a bit concerned that Ashley's last Instagram post talked about resting up before getting ready for Nationals. Maybe that's absolutely fine, but it seems like a very quick call that she will be able to compete. The intensity of training for Nats and going after that one pair spot seems fearful. At least it makes me fearful. I hope she is being closely monitored.

Maybe she is being examined by doctors and they will help her to make that call...

(why do i suspect that the next set of proposals will include "the community must decide if she competes or not" instead of letting an individual decide what she wants to do with her own life)..

 

[pinky166]

Switching gears a little, I am a bit concerned that Ashley's last Instagram post talked about resting up before getting ready for Nationals. Maybe that's absolutely fine, but it seems like a very quick call that she will be able to compete. The intensity of training for Nats and going after that one pair spot seems fearful. At least it makes me fearful. I hope she is being closely monitored.

I think if she has gone to a doctor and they confirmed she does not have a concussion and gave her clearance to practice, then it’s okay. Otherwise, I would seek medical attention ASAP before doing any practicing.

She might be fine or she may not be. But Ashley herself does not have the qualifications to decide that.

 

[purple skates]

I'm glad he found another sport! My 12yo is in hockey and figure skating, but also plays soccer and loves bass fishing, so if we have to make the decision to opt out of hockey, he has some backups. Bass fishing is probably the least dangerous, as long as you don't hook yourself or do something stupid in a boat. We have a golf course nearby, so hmmmmm.

My nephew had a loss-of-consciousness concussion from skiing. He said it took about 2 years to feel completely himself again and he had a lot of depression and anger during that time. He says he's lost his sense of smell and it's never come back. But he is feeling overall better.

Total thread drift, but hockey players generally make good golfers and there are way more scholarship opportunities (at least in the US) for golfers than for hockey players.

My daughter also had an experience like this after her concussion (which I mentioned above) but it affected her endocrine system. Her body no longer sends out the hormones that tighten your blood vessels to keep blood pressure when you are standing. As a result she has orthostatic hypotension - blood pressure drops like 40 points when she stands and her heart races. She’s on a cocktail of meds that help to a point and is ok and studying for her mcat now but she still forgets things more than others. And on the comment above about doctors not always knowing- when she fell the emergency room told us she’d be fine just a bump on the head, and sent her home. When she saw a specialist 4 days later- he was appalled. It was the top pediatric hospital in our city- a major city I might add. Needless to say- skating eventually went away due to risk of another concussion from a any kind of fall. She switched back to Irish Dance and liked it a lot

The ER misdiagnosed our son. Said he was fine, no concussion. It took several months to figure out why he was having mood swings, sensitivity to light, and headaches. All the while he was still playing hockey. I believe his lost year was more from his continuing to play than the original concussion.

In hindsight we were stupid, but we believed the ER doc and concussion symptoms weren’t quite on the radar then. Mood swings were explained by his age, headaches by his allergies. When we finally went to a pediatric neurologist based on recommendations from our eye doctor (who we went to because of the light sensitivity), and found out it was all symptoms of post-concussive syndrome, we were furious with the ER doc. They should have told us more than “if he gets woozy and has trouble waking up, bring him back”.

 

[Spun Silver]

Total thread drift, but hockey players generally make good golfers and there are way more scholarship opportunities (at least in the US) for golfers than for hockey players.



The ER misdiagnosed our son. Said he was fine, no concussion. It took several months to figure out why he was having mood swings, sensitivity to light, and headaches. All the while he was still playing hockey. I believe his lost year was more from his continuing to play than the original concussion.

In hindsight we were stupid, but we believed the ER doc and concussion symptoms weren’t quite on the radar then. Mood swings were explained by his age, headaches by his allergies. When we finally went to a pediatric neurologist based on recommendations from our eye doctor (who we went to because of the light sensitivity), and found out it was all symptoms of post-concussive syndrome, we were furious with the ER doc. They should have told us more than “if he gets woozy and has trouble waking up, bring him back”.

That reminds me of when my husband was in the ER after a fall in NYC. I rushed in from NJ and the ER doc told me he was just drunk and would be released as soon as he sobered up. He was drunk, true, but I could tell it was more than that. On my insistence they looked further and found he had a brain bleed, what turned out to be a severe traumatic brain injury. The ER doctor seemed bright and caring enough but he really didn't do his job that day.

I'm very sorry that happened to your son. I hope he made a full recovery.

 

[PRlady]

I think ER docs can’t know everything. I was brought to the ER six weeks ago with severe abdominal pain, they gave me a CT scan and the ER doc told me I needed emergency surgery. In came the specialists, the gastro doc and colorectal surgeons, who said immediate surgery would have a terrible result. I ended up in the hospital for a while (and home now) getting over some serious concerns so they can operate, but that ER doc was really wrong.

The best thing is a teaching hospital where they call in the specialist right away but I guess that’s not the typical procedure.

 

[rfisher]

I think ER docs can’t know everything. I was brought to the ER six weeks ago with severe abdominal pain, they gave me a CT scan and the ER doc told me I needed emergency surgery. In came the specialists, the gastro doc and colorectal surgeons, who said immediate surgery would have a terrible result. I ended up in the hospital for a while (and home now) getting over some serious concerns so they can operate, but that ER doc was really wrong.

The best thing is a teaching hospital where they call in the specialist right away but I guess that’s not the typical procedure.

No it isn't, and worse the practice now is for most hospitals to contract er services out. Big bucks are involved and poorer care. And most brain bleeds may not show on ct for 24 hours. See a neurologist. .

 

[Spun Silver]

I think ER docs can’t know everything. I was brought to the ER six weeks ago with severe abdominal pain, they gave me a CT scan and the ER doc told me I needed emergency surgery. In came the specialists, the gastro doc and colorectal surgeons, who said immediate surgery would have a terrible result. I ended up in the hospital for a while (and home now) getting over some serious concerns so they can operate, but that ER doc was really wrong.

The best thing is a teaching hospital where they call in the specialist right away but I guess that’s not the typical procedure.

That sounds dreadful and scary. I hope it's at least clear now what the right course is, and that all goes well.

 

[skatfan]

I always heard that not only do you not move the head or neck of someone who has had a fall...

People in general just need more first aid training.

I’ve taken a fair amount of first aid training, and any fall higher than your own height has a very high risk (let alone one landing on your neck/head). The second Tom raised her neck I started yelling no no no until they finished. I can’t watch that on replay, no way.

If the referee makes these calls on continuing, they need a professional level first aid training because if I was able to figure this out, a ref should have.

 

[Debbie S]

The best thing is a teaching hospital where they call in the specialist right away but I guess that’s not the typical procedure.

No, usually, they just make sure your condition isn't critical/life-threatening and tell you to follow up with a specialist. After you've sat there for hours.

No it isn't, and worse the practice now is for most hospitals to contract er services out. Big bucks are involved and poorer care. And most brain bleeds may not show on ct for 24 hours. See a neurologist. .

When I broke my leg, the closest hospital (rink is outside the metro area) didn't seem to even have any docs in the ER (Sat morning). The only person I saw (other than the nurses who gave me a painkiller and left me to sit, and wouldn't even give me ice after I requested it ("Someone will be in soon", like being seen and getting ice to keep the swelling down are mutually exclusive) and I ended up with nasty blistering and scarring, which has been improved with expensive cosmetic treatments) was a PA. The actual diagnosis/discharge paper had the name of a doc but I never saw that person....a physician friend told me that most likely he read the x-ray remotely. I guess if it had been a compound fracture or something else really serious, the doc would have come in, or I'd be transferred somewhere. This was a community hospital, and the ER was really quiet, I may have been the only patient there.

There have been some skaters with head injuries who have been taken there from that rink. I would think/hope they'd get a bit more attention, but esp if it's a weekend and docs aren't there, who knows what whoever is managing the ER is doing.

 

[Sarah]

I had a really serious concussion about 5.5 years ago. I was kicked in the skull by my horse and then fough falling in the mud and had a second impact from whiplash (probably more serious for my brain). I never lost consciousness but the ER doctor misdiagnosed it and sent me to work the next day with directions to follow up with my primary care in a week. His office staff wasn’t overly concerned either since ER said I was fine. After 5 days, I couldn’t form sentences and by my follow up appointment, I could barely talk. All scans had been clean.

The initial 24-48 hours is critical, but symptoms can take a week to surface. Thankfully after showing up at work that first day, my boss decided she’d rather I not work (my face was black and blue and I was in a crazy amount of pain) so I wasn’t stressing my brain too much. But, I ended up out of work for a couple weeks, dealt with post concussive syndrome from a good year plus, and still lose words when stressed and tired. I’m sure my migraines are worse from concussions. I had another concussion 2 years ago and had no symptoms other than anxiety, frustration, and increased debilitating headaches which started 10 days after the fall. For this concussion, I never hit my head, but experienced whiplash. It was my doctor that finally put 2 and 2 together as I had mentioned the fall the day after it happened. A month later, concussion was diagnosed and we adjusted my work schedule to give my brain a rest and it helped some.

Anyway, this is all to say symptoms show up at different times. I’m terrified that if you’re clear after 24-48 hours, you can be released to play. Most of my symptoms haven’t even started by that point. Concussions are scary, scary things. My short term memory comes and goes sometimes and it stresses me out so much. It’s all related to concussions. At 33, I’m too young to otherwise have memory loss.

 

[Spun Silver]

Good grief, are we supposed to start doctoring ourselves? This is upsetting to read about. I hope you are getting a lot of moral support, @Sarah (online if nowhere else ... a FB support group for TBI spouses was a lifeline for me) because clearly you have been struggling.

These experiences just underscore my worry about Ashley training for Nationals.

 

[dinakt]

A lot of people here have talked eloquently about the need to be careful with concussions. I have an example from just last week. A student of mine (young, healthy) slipped on ice while walking and hit her head, seemingly not that bad. She seemed fine and continued with her day. The next day she experienced severe nausea and vertigo, and was driven to the hospital. A moderate concussion was diagnosed, and she spent several days bed ridden in the dark room, no classes, to exams, no stress. I hope she is fine, but after reading here about long-term consequences of concussions, I will encourage her to be very vigilant of any remaining side-effects, and to take it easy.

I have no desire to blame anybody in Zagreb situation, but rather blame the lack of systematic training about the ways to handle concussions. Tim was falling himself while Ashley hit her head, so he might not have been completely aware of what happened. But if skaters are told every week not to lift a person after the fall- they'll remember it. If it was mentioned once, many years ago at some random training camp, then it is easy to forget it in a moment of panic.

 

[Tinami Amori]

These experiences just underscore my worry about Ashley training for Nationals.

Why are you assuming that Ashley is not responsible and smart enough to go through a full medical evaluation and recovery process before she makes a decision about nationals?!! She is an adult, has parents and a coach. Let them worry, and make their own choices.

 

[Orm Irian]

I always heard that not only do you not move the head or neck of someone who has had a fall like this (unless the location they are in is so unsafe that it’s a bigger risk to leave them, like a fire), it is a bad idea to help someone up. If a person can’t get on their feet under their own power after a fall, that right there is an indication of a problem.

That's what I was taught too - and if you need to move someone out of immediate danger, you don't lift them, you drag them by the heels to maintain tension on the spine and cause the least amount of further damage possible.

 

[HeatherC]

I was wondering about the difference between Tarah's fall at US Nats in 2017 and Ashley's fall here so I went back to watch both of them (I actually hadn't seen Ashley's yet but I was curious about the comparison since it was mentioned here). Tarah actually got up under her own power right away to continue their program so while I was in the crowd there and panicked for Tarah, she made the decision herself to get up so I have no problem with them continuing on with their program (even though my heart was in my throat the entire time). Tarah and Danny SP - US Nats 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DouKP42mOtI

From what I can see in their long program now that I've watched it, Ashley did not get up under her own power at all which is why that referee should have blown that darn whistle and stopped them from continuing with their program. I find it really problematic that he didn't do anything, especially now that I've seen it, and I really hope Ashley will be all right.

 

[happycamper2554]

I was wondering about the difference between Tarah's fall at US Nats in 2017 and Ashley's fall here so I went back to watch both of them (I actually hadn't seen Ashley's yet but I was curious about the comparison since it was mentioned here). Tarah actually got up under her own power right away to continue their program so while I was in the crowd there and panicked for Tarah, she made the decision herself to get up so I have no problem with them continuing on with their program (even though my heart was in my throat the entire time). Tarah and Danny SP - US Nats 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DouKP42mOtI

From what I can see in their long program now that I've watched it, Ashley did not get up under her own power at all which is why that referee should have blown that darn whistle and stopped them from continuing with their program. I find it really problematic that he didn't do anything, especially now that I've seen it, and I really hope Ashley will be all right.

If we are really concerned about head injuries, then the whistle has to blow for everyone. Yes she didn't go limp and got up right away, she fell from height though. How do we know she was in the right state of mind to make a decision. This was also a national broadcast. If I were a parent and saw that the program wasn't stopped, I would be concerned. The rule needs to be if your head hits the ice then the whistle blows. We can't have referees trying to be doctors and determine what is and is not a concussion. However the caveat for this rule for me is that if you are medically stopped and then cleared within the competition,you can have the choice to start from where you left off or have a full restart if you wish.

 

[PRlady]

My daughter had a concussion after a bad car accident her sophomore year of college. At the time I was so grateful her injuries weren’t worse, I’m not sure I didn’t minimize the effects of the concussion. She went back to college a few days later on a normal schedule.

 

[jmtfti]

The Cains posted video of C/L's homecoming at DFW Airport.