U.S. Men in 2018 - articles & latest news

[Carolla5501]

So, where are all those people who were freaking out about Nathan after Japan Open?

After all he’s a rash young man who should have consulted the “geniuses” on here who know what is best (without any insight into his long term goals). LOL

Good for Nathan. He’s lucky to be able to live the life he wants.

 

[Lacey]

From what I read about Nathan last season, he was encouraged (by his mother?) to take dance and/or ballet (?) lessons from an early age right up through Senior Men. I hope he is still doing it. And I believe he might be because he danced/skated those programs at Skate America 2018.

All male (and female) skaters should be so encouraged. It shows. Payoff Bingo!

 

[aftershocks]

Wow, long. I love Adam as a competitor. I have admit and this is true of the Shibs too - I like the media stuff in conjunction with their skating. But on it's own it's tough. You really need a talent - comedic, Ru-Paul-personality, something. Adam was funny on Ellen - the first time. But, I haven't paid much attention since. The Shibs travel-logs aren't so interesting separate from their competitive lives. Maybe a year of media stuff can repay some of the huge costs of a skating career.

In both cases, they are role models extraordinaire. Skating offers little to frankly no opportunities for retired eligible athletes. That's why some skaters never announce they are retiring from eligible competition officially. There's stlll a possibility that the Shibs will compete again, and their level of fame and recognition is not at the same media 'bright lights' spectrum as Adam's is. They are all taking advantage of their off-ice opportunities, and finding out where the next opportunity will take them and deciding what they want. It's a great position to be in, as well as fraught with uncertainty. I think the Shibs and Adam are fearless and courageous, and they are wonderful role models. More power to them all!

As the article you cite on Adam concludes: Altough it's complicated navigating fame in the media age, Adam may be able to weather the shark-filled waters and find his niche doing something productive and worthwhile that's also fulfilling and not overly superficial. Already Adam has inspired a lot of people. I'm glad the world has found out what the skating community has always known about Adam's engaging and fun personality: He's someone special who's worth knowing.

ETA: I love the Shibs' vlogs. The vlogs were never all about skating competitions even when the Shibs were actively competing. If you are bored by their vlogs, then maybe you were never a fan of their vlogs in the first place. Just sayin...

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Nathan was amaze balls... Best male skater in the world ATM! I like his style of skating more than Hanyu... but just a preference.

Can I also say that I think Vincent should have won the silver ...... and that also includes any loss of points for under rotations....

The more I think about it the more I think its so wrong that Vincent wasnt higher in that free. I LOVE Matteo and I love Voronov but I feel like Vincent is being held down...

 

[RoseRed]

Nathan was amaze balls... Best male skater in the world ATM! I like his style of skating more than Hanyu... but just a preference.

Can I also say that I think Vincent should have won the silver ...... and that also includes any loss of points for under rotations....

The more I think about it the more I think its so wrong that Vincent wasnt higher in that free. I LOVE Matteo and I love Voronov but I feel like Vincent is being held down...

You have to keep in mind that all the jumps with under-rotations are going to get -ve GOE. And he's getting the URs on his big jumps, not 2Ts. So that's a ton of points lost, especially with quality being more important.

And Vincent did beat Matteo and Sergei in the free.

 

[Willin]

Vincent doesn't tend to get URs on his triples. It's frustrating to see that if he had played it safe and landed a bunch of clean +GOE triples (and maybe a 4Lz since that's the quad he's least likely to get a UR on) he might've easily ended up on the podium. His team needs to understand his UR issue, his UR reputation issue, and how it relates to the BV changes this year.

TBH I'm curious to see how much he could've scored with a clean triple-only program compared to what he put out there.

ETA: Assuming he changes nothing but making the planned quads triples
This competition:

• Short Program Total jump points: 23.61
  • 4Lz<+3T = 11.47
  • 4F< ! = 6.48
  • 3A< (bonus) = 5.66
• Free Skate Total jump points: 55.40
  • 4Lz+3T< = 13.99
  • 2F ! = 1.62 (popped 4F)
  • 4T< = 5.09
  • 3A<+2T = 6.61
  • 4Lz< (bonus) = 7.39
  • 3Lz (bonus) = 7.75
  • 3Lz+1Eu+3F ! (bonus) = 12.95

All Triples: (For triple jumps: Base Value)

• Short Program Total: 19.74
  • 3Lz+3T = 10.10
  • 3F ! = 3.98
  • 3A< (bonus) = 5.66
• Free Skate Total: 52.08
  • 3Lz+3T = 10.10
  • 3F ! = 3.98
  • 3T = 4.20
  • 3A<+2T = 6.61
  • 3Lz (bonus) = 6.49
  • 3Lz (bonus) = 7.75
  • 3Lz+1Eu+3F ! (bonus) = 12.95

Assuming 1 point GOE on all the quads changed to singles he could've gotten 22.74 for the short and 56.08 for the free for a total of 78.82 - very close to the actual total of 79.01. One would assume he'd get more than 1 point +GOE for the triples, making the change worth it.

 

[aftershocks]

I feel like Vincent is being held down...

I have to say I agree with this observation, even though I'm not exactly a Vincent uber. The judges seem over-focused on reviewing all of Vincent's jumps. Maybe they are using Vincent as the 'poster-child' for these new rules! And his UR tendencies are playing right into that scenario unfortunately.

As I said earlier, Vincent and his coaches have got to respond by fixing his 'lazy' landing foot tendencies. It is not going to be in Vincent's favor for his coaching team to pick fights with the ISU judges (no matter whether some of the calls were possibly too close to call against Vincent). The way they scored Vincent sends a message to the rest of the men's field. 'You can rise or die with quads.' Just be sure you get around on them, or go with the quads you actually know you can land cleanly in competition. You'd think that Vincent would have been given a bit more credit to at least be ahead of Matteo overall.

Since URs can become habit-forming, and carrying the rep for them can be deadly to building competitive momentum, Vincent and his team need to make a strategy course-correction, in addition to figuring out how to fix Vincent's 'lazy' foot that has his blade biting the ice a bit too often.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

And Vincent did beat Matteo and Sergei in the free.

I know, I said a shame that he wasnt higher (than just a meesly point or two).

Tara and Johnny said his quad in the SP was absolutely NOT underrotated.

If these new rules are truy the case than I CANT WAIT for Jason Brown to win 2 Gold medals by miles above the competition and then a GPF Gold medal and then the 2019 World Champion.

 

[misskarne]

Tara and Johnny said his quad in the SP was absolutely NOT underrotated.

Well, they're wrong. Both were.

 

[casken]

Excuse me while I at Jimmy Ma's result considering the off putting antics of him, and especially his fanbase, during Skate America.

 

[aftershocks]

Excuse me while I at Jimmy Ma's result considering the off putting antics of him, and especially his fanbase, during Skate America.

What??? Why celebrate when a skater doesn't perform well?

 

[RoseRed]

I know, I said a shame that he wasnt higher (than just a meesly point or two).

Tara and Johnny said his quad in the SP was absolutely NOT underrotated.

If these new rules are truy the case than I CANT WAIT for Jason Brown to win 2 Gold medals by miles above the competition and then a GPF Gold medal and then the 2019 World Champion.

Tara and Johnny are not necessarily the most reliable source. I'm terrible at seeing URs, but the snow was really flying up on his jumps.

 

[Willin]

@RoseRed The snow was flying up so much that it was hard to even see the blade, let alone URs. I can't blame people that were confused. Because of the snow it took me a good 20 replays before I could tell what was happening.

@casken Such as? I didn't see any nastiness from his fans. And besides, crazy fans be crazy - they're not a reflection of the skater themself. Just look at Yuzu's fans vs. his personality.

 

[misskarne]

I know, I said a shame that he wasnt higher (than just a meesly point or two).

Well, he did cost himself a point by not taking his start position in the SP within the allowed 30 seconds.

 

[shady82]

..anyway, Vincent was most certainly at least 2nd best of the night. He could have been 1st arguably, but he does have some UR issues.

I'm really impressed by how Nathan is developing as a performer. I still agree that his skating skills are not as good as say, Hanyu, Uno, or Kolyada. But they aren't bad by most measures and he improved in this aspect over the last two years. The other positive note is that he seems to be getting his triple axel under control.

 

[Cleo1782]

..anyway, Vincent was most certainly at least 2nd best of the night. He could have been 1st arguably, but he does have some UR issues.

I'm really impressed by how Nathan is developing as a performer. I still agree that his skating skills are not as good as say, Hanyu, Uno, or Kolyada. But they aren't bad by most measures and he improved in this aspect over the last two years. The other positive note is that he seems to be getting his triple axel under control.

Maybe you could find an argument for 2nd but not first no way. Ur's or no Ur's Nathan is miles ahead all aroud

 

[Vagabond]

The Technical Panel does not watch the television feed. They watch the skater live from where they are sitting and can review video taken by a camera sitting right next to them.

Just a gentle reminder to certain posters who purport to know whether the Technical Panel's decisions were correct. You know who you are.

 

[mag]

I probably would've given him the 4Lz but I thought both the 4F and 3A looked questionable in real time and definitely under rotated in the replay.

I really love Nathan's short. Shaelyn Bourne gets him. I don't think any of the US men come close to him right now.

I would have flagged the lutz and looked at it in slow motion. I didn’t see the replay but it looked at least questionable enough to take a second look at. The flip and the axel were, to my eye, clearly < in real time.

I don’t think Vincent is being “singled out.” I don’t think Vincent has a “lazy landing foot” whatever the heck that means. I think Vincent just doesn’t have his quads consistently rotated. Maybe when done out of the program in practice they are fine. Maybe done in the program without stress they are fine. Clearly, in competition they are not always fine. The tech panel would be negligent if they didn’t review them.

 

[insideedgeua]

I don’t think Vincent is being “singled out.” I don’t think Vincent has a “lazy landing foot” whatever the heck that means. I think Vincent just doesn’t have his quads consistently rotated. Maybe when done out of the program in practice they are fine. Maybe done in the program without stress they are fine. Clearly, in competition they are not always fine. The tech panel would be negligent if they didn’t review them.

I couldn’t agree more!

I like Vincent. He will get more consistent and stronger, but right now, Nathan is ahead.

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

I have to say I agree with this observation, even though I'm not exactly a Vincent uber. The judges seem over-focused on reviewing all of Vincent's jumps.

I don't think any coach or federation has ever challenged judges' calls. I guess it's dealt with some other way. Today rules out Vincent from the GPF. Somewhere up above a poster pointed out that Nathan got 1 2 3 4 5 on a step sequence. So, there's confusion among judges about how to use the +5/-5 system.

 

[aftershocks]

So, there's confusion among judges about how to use the +5/-5 system.

Right, unsurprisingly. Business as usual in figure skating.

 

[aftershocks]

I'm really impressed by how Nathan is developing as a performer. I still agree that his skating skills are not as good as say, Hanyu, Uno, or Kolyada.

Nathan doesn't look or move the way any of these skaters do on the ice. Do you mean that Nathan's edges are not deep and he doesn't bend in his knees as well. That seems to be true. But Nathan is more creative and more of a risk-taker. And when Nathan is in the zone, he's more exciting and refreshing to watch.

And the others have their weaknesses too: Hanyu does not utilize stretch and extension in his skating, but by now it's not really a drawback because what he's good at compensates for lack of line and stretch. IMO, Hanyu is technically (when he's in the zone) a more bravura skater, than he is artistically. Hanyu moves with a mesmerizing flow, but his focus re presentation and interpretation is not strong or as consistent as his technical strengths.

Uno is a prodigy with his exquisitely soft knees. Although Uno has good SS, he has some technique problems on some of his jumps. Plus, Uno is rather one-note so far in his overall skating, albeit that one-note is mesmerizing for many skating fans. Perhaps Uno will begin to stretch himself over the next quad, and take more chances to explore different creative possibilities and challenge himself.

Kolyada has not always chosen the best music and programs, but he's an exquisite skater technically and aesthetically when he's in the zone, which has been rather rare. Of course, Kolyada's inconsistent tendencies may be solved this season. We'll see.

 

[alchemy void]

Zhou would have had a medal (and probably silver) here, simply by adjusting the jump layout, as @Willin points out.

Huge tactical error by the coaching team, IMO. Particularly after how all the jumps were judged by the newly Scott Davis in the SP, there’s no way he should have been attempting 4 quads in the LP. Stick with the 4lutzes, which seems to be his best quad, and do triples everywhere else.

 

[Carolla5501]

I know, I said a shame that he wasnt higher (than just a meesly point or two).

Tara and Johnny said his quad in the SP was absolutely NOT underrotated.

If these new rules are truy the case than I CANT WAIT for Jason Brown to win 2 Gold medals by miles above the competition and then a GPF Gold medal and then the 2019 World Champion.

Well if Tara and Johnny said it then it must be completely accurate. After all they know more than anyone (at least in their own minds) LOL!

Sorry, but I need a more reliable "expert" than the bling team who seem more concerned with what they are wearing than the skating

 

[shady82]

Stick with the 4lutzes, which seems to be his best quad, and do triples everywhere else.

There is no basic logic in a points system that gives a clean 3 lutz more points than a 3.75 lutz.

 

[Vagabond]

There is no basic logic in a points system that gives a clean 3 lutz more points than a 3.75 lutz.

Oh, but there is. Scoring has come full circle.

 

[mag]

There is no basic logic in a points system that gives a clean 3 lutz more points than a 3.75 lutz.

So should a 3.25 lutz or a 3.5 lutz get more points than a 3 lutz? Maybe we should just have a sliding scale that gives X points for each degree of rotation?

 

[toddlj]

Rotation should matter... but a quarter turn on the ice with your foot (on the most difficult elements that most skaters aren't even attempting) means you go from 2nd placement to 5th placement, contender to out of the final, just seems a bit of an over-correction.

 

[BittyBug]

So should a 3.25 lutz or a 3.5 lutz get more points than a 3 lutz? Maybe we should just have a sliding scale that gives X points for each degree of rotation?

No. Jumps are defined by entrance, exit and rotation. A triple anything except for the axel by definition is 1080 degrees. More or less and the jump was not done properly; over or under rotating is an error.

 

[wickedwitch]

Rotation should matter... but a quarter turn on the ice with your foot (on the most difficult elements that most skaters aren't even attempting) means you go from 2nd placement to 5th placement, contender to out of the final, just seems a bit of an over-correction.

Skating is a game of inches. Precision matters. If turns in the footwork sequences are off be a quarter turn, they'd receive only base value for it. If someone was a quarter turn short on a spin position, they'd lose a level for it -- and possibly more. They could end up with the dreaded V.

And this doesn't just hold for singles. Ice dancers have twizzles that need to be roated fully. Pair elements like lifts and death spirals are elvaluated similarly. Many times a pair will be less than 90 degrees short of another full rotation on a death spiral, but they pull up slightly too early and lose a level.

The system allows room for slight underrotations on jumps. 90 degrees is actually fairly lenient.