Who is the better skater (all things considered): Evgeny Plushenko, Alexei Yagudin or Yuzuru Hanyu?

Who is the better skater (all things considered): Evgeny Plushenko, Alexei Yagudin or Yuzuru Hanyu?

  • Evgeny Plushenko

    Votes: 9 4.9%
  • Yuzuru Hanyu

    Votes: 123 67.2%
  • Alexei Yagudin

    Votes: 51 27.9%

  • Total voters
    183
Ha ha I shouldn't have voted in this poll really...I can't be objective - see icon. But I had to vote Plushy because his skating just captivates me! He doesn't have all the transitions of course, but his jumps! I still can't believe he did a quad in Sochi after all those surgeries and a disc in his back. That's one strong technique! Plus the charisma...

Yuzu has more jumps and transitions and I enjoy his skating a lot, but as a Plushy fan himself, I'm sure he'd forgive me for thinking Plushy is better. :biggrinbo

Lastly Yags...I was never able to get into Yags's skating, I don't know why. Obviously he's an excellent skater as well, but I always kind of 'eh' at him. Sorry Yags.
 
It's important to remember that Yagudin was a bit ahead of Plush. He competed in his first Worlds in 97, Plush in 98. That one year made a difference.

If Plush had been the one to be a year ahead, the rivalry might have played out a bit differently.

Plush was sort of put in the position of the bratty younger brother fighting for attention, which he clearly demonstrated when he completely reorganized the jump layout of his folk dance FD, with Mishin wailing at him from the boards. That remains one of the funniest moments I've witnessed in FS.

I loved that folk dance, and also loved Plush's 'Carmen' at the 2002 Olympics. I don't think there has been a Carmen since then that I've actually enjoyed, although there certainly have been far too many of them.

Yagudin competed in seniors in the 1995/1996 season, he was on ECH, and finished 6th. Plushenko started to compete in seniors in 1997/1998 season. Two seasons differency. He was almost 3 years younger : Plush was born in November 1982, Yag in March 1980.

And when he reorganized his jump layout that was in his Jean Michel Jarre Medley program at his first WCH. He was just 15. He was second after the SP but he failed the quad. That was the reason why he tried again..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOcGnFdtq-E with Dick Button commentary
 
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Alexei had the advantage of having a more superior and centered coach, Tatiana T.! Mishon was too tyrannical! :plush:

According to Plushy Mishin wasn't tyrannical..they have discussed everything, their relationship is like father and son https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKMaT6oy87c - Evgeni Plushenko Alexei Mishin - lonely raindrops

But you are right Mishin has changed Plush's programs many times he didn't like the choreographer's works...:lol:

@aftershocks I ask you again how Yagudin could be more artistry as Plushenko ? Plushenko recieved much more 6.0s for his artistry in same period than Yagudin, he received more than Kwan! Funny, don't you think? We, Fs fans are so different we can see same programs and skatings so differently..
 
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@aftershocks I ask you again how Yagudin could be more artistry as Plushenko ? Plushenko recieved much more 6.0s for his artistry in same period than Yagudin, he received more than Kwan! Funny, don't you think? We, Fs fans are so different we can see same programs and skatings so differently..

Where did I say that Yags had 'more artistry' than Plushenko? It's mind-boggling how people read into posts willy nilly and brazenly misinterpret, just because. Or maybe it's not your fault and you just don't get it or can't be bothered to read carefully with full comprehension. Both Plush and Yags were driven more by a hungering for mastering technical feats, than artistry. However, Yags desired to work harder than Plush at becoming a more complete skater consciously and dedicatedly.

I would say that an artistic bent probably came more easily to Plush, but IMHO, he squandered it lazily. Plush fell back on his charm, charisma, and fast footwork. Plush skillfully combined those easy, natural attributes with his amazing athleticism in order to mesmerize audiences and judges. As I said, with TAT's help, Yags worked much harder than Plush on exploring his inner creativity. After Yags had retired, Plush was so dominant that he really didn't need to focus so much on truly developing his artistry, so he didn't. When Johnny Weir came on the scene, Plush belatedly began to concentrate more on exploring line, stretch, and musical interpretation. I feel Yags was more serious about developing his artistry and he tried harder than Plush. But I don't think either of them were great artists. Yags, however, accomplished more purposeful and memorable creativity competitively, with his 2002 Olympics programs. Plush had some wonderful competitive moments, but he simply did not completely fulfill his artistic potential, because he was much more focused on the technical aspects of figure skating, which by his own admission he felt was a 'macho' imperative! :drama: I do love the exciting ice shows Plush created as his competitive career waned.

To each their own in any case. As we should all know by now, there's something ineffable about why we are drawn to love some skaters more than others. For me, I respect and admire them all. I'm also able to enjoy something about every skater. Plus, I try to be objective and thoughtful in my assessments. I try to take a step back, even from those I love, in an effort to figure out the reasons why I am drawn to some skaters more than to others.

To be perfectly honest, none of Yags, Plushy, or Hanyu were/are either very musical or very artistic, compared to the sport's greatest artists on ice. And that's a fact, take it or leave it. Believe it or not.
 
At the very least Yagudin definitely had better and much more intricate choreography than Plushenko. Plushenko's programs often are below his immense talents, a lot of that is Mishin is not a good choreographer, only a technical coach, and contain lots of periods of just stroking and posing. Yagudin's programs are also more sincere, emotional, and musical, as Tracy Wilson said once "Plushenko has found the formula that works for him, he cuts the music to go with the elements" and also said "essentialy the exact same music and choreography, just different music."

I do think Plushenko might have had more talent and potential than Yagudin in many areas, including artistically, but his choreography did not bear that out. To Plushenko's credit he often can perform the heck out of his cheesy/bad choreography, and he has a presence and command out there like nobody else at times, although Yagudin is also pretty incredible in that regard.
 
According to Plushy Mishin wasn't tyrannical..they have discussed everything, their relationship is like father and son https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKMaT6oy87c - Evgeni Plushenko Alexei Mishin - lonely raindrops

But you are right Mishin has changed Plush's programs many times he didn't like the choreographer's works...:lol:

@aftershocks I ask you again how Yagudin could be more artistry as Plushenko ? Plushenko recieved much more 6.0s for his artistry in same period than Yagudin, he received more than Kwan! Funny, don't you think? We, Fs fans are so different we can see same programs and skatings so differently..

Hey, don't kill the messenger! I was a true fan of Plushy and taped just about every performance! I even created a blog/fan page (in signature), but we can't deny Yag's power in his skating! There's a delicacy to Plushy which is fine, but there's comprehensive scoring going on and the judges appreciated Yag's overall skating package! No doubt about Plushy being more a tactician who almost never had a bad performance (I can count them on one hand), but when he was ruling the tour, there just wasn't anyone who could compete with him! As Buttons used to say during commentary about Alexei Urnmanov, "he distracts with his hands" or some such about the florid arms and exaggerated hand movements! Plushy developed the same skill and was all performance art with him after '06 Torino! He had that "air" that no one could touch him and it was true at the time! He didn't do anything to elevate his skating in the meantime thinking he could rejoin the GP and double his OG count! I was very disappointed in that '10 Vancouver performance; his landings though upright were atrocious! Even with the QUAD I didn't think he deserved it and I'm one who can't stand Evan Lysacek! As much as I was a fan of Plushy's, the only time he really seemed to beat Yags is when he was injured and made an error! When Sasha won, it was more about his completing those 2 QUADS and Alexei coming up short! You have to admit in '01 Worlds, Yags was flopping all over the place; even in the Qualifying! I'm shocked he made it thru, but that SP to Rachmon. piece can bring a tear to your eye! It's what I'm talking about; the raw strength, power, and passion that Evgeny never achieved! I can't lie to myself! :drama: :plush: :slinkaway :yikes:
 
And that's why if we are only comparing these three skaters, I choose Alexei Yagudin. For me, Yagudin is/was the best of these three at focusing with emotional intensity on fully developing artistry and expressiveness in his skating. And Yagudin was also a very pure, consistent, and superb technician. With Tatiana Tarasova's help, Yagudin worked hard at trying to become a complete skater. His performances at 2002 Olympics were masterful, both technically and aesthetically.

For me, Hanyu is primarily an extraordinarily gifted technician. Of course, Hanyu moves fluidly and mesmerizingly, but he is also rather gumby-like or loosey-goosey, and he does not exhibit nor has he yet fully developed an aesthetically satisfying body awareness, in terms of line and stretch. Hanyu admittedly has patterned his skating after his idol and muse, Johnny Weir. When he first came on the senior scene, Hanyu did seem to move with a graceful fluidity that was reminiscent of Johnny's movement quality. However, for me, Hanyu never quite pulled me in all the way. I became distracted by his loosey-goosey physicality, his lack of stretch and line, and his tendency early in his career to lose endurance in his fps and make errors. Going to Orser was a tremendous help to Hanyu, as Orser managed to find a way to help Hanyu pace himself and solve his lack of endurance problems (possibly related to his asthma).

There's no question that Hanyu is a passionate and determined competitor with a fierce drive to win. He also has very good skating skills, but that's what makes his lack of line and stretch fairly annoying, at least for me. Still, Hanyu is fun to watch when he's in the zone, and his jumping ability is amazing. I would have to agree though that sometimes there's somewhat of a mechanical quality in the way he performs. He has artistic abilities, but he moves in and out of complete concentration on the expressive aspects of his skating. And Hanyu is not a particularly musical skater, in terms of having a superior ability to interpret music in a way that pulls an audience into the weaving of a story. I think audiences are more pulled into Hanyu's other-worldly elf-like persona, and his amazing jumping ability (the suspended quality of his jumps).

Plushenko is Plushenko, and he will likely go down in the history of the sport in a class by himself. No one's passion, determination, and strength of will is greater than Plushenko's, IMHO. As far as artistry, Plush had a lot of capability, but he tended to rely more on charisma, rather than on fully exploring aesthetics. His main focus was upping the technical ante, and utilizing his athleticism and charm, rather than challenging himself with mastering difficult transitions. Plush did not have great stretch or line either, but conversely he did have a catlike, balletic grace.

I watched figure skating every Olympic since 2002 but only in 2014 when I saw Hanyu short program that I got pulled in to continue watching because he actually skated his program to the beat of music with precission, as an audiophile that is hugely satisfying, while when I watch others I saw that the music is merely a background song to these movement required to get marks. Then I found out Hanyu is also an audiophile... So no wonder. To say people are pulled in because of his elf like hence u are referring to his physical appearance is very disrespectful to people who actually drawn in because of his musicality which you claime he is lacking. As someone who is waaayy older than him viewing him as this attractive man rather than a great skater is disgusting thoughts tbh.
 
I prefer both Yagudin's and Plushenko's jumps, because they are more powerful IMO. Hanyu's jumps have that 'floating quality' which distinguishes him, but I don't find them exciting or explosive.

To me Hanyu is machine-like. I can see that he cares about the performance and emotional dimensions of his skating, but he just bores me for the most part. Usually my mind wanders away when I watch him.

When it comes to Japanese male skaters, I far prefer Takeshi Honda, Takahashi and Machida to Hanyu.

It's always intriguing to see how different opinion can be, I like watching Hanyu of course but Takahashi is right on the list, I like his passion in his perfomance, but gosh Machida makes me cringe, maybe because of dramatic flair I don't know. These reminds me when I was watching Men SP in Sochi my brother who was watching with me decided it's a good time to start vacuming when Machida is starting lol
 
IMO : Hanuy > Yagudin > Plushenko
But it is so difficult to compare them because their qualities and strenght are so different !
 
Even though of the three I personally enjoy Yagudin the most, I had to vote for Hanyu. He has an effortless ease to his jumps and many other aspects to his skating that the others seem to lack (IMO).

That said, I'd still rather watch Patrick Chan do basic stroking skills than watch a full, perfectly-skated program from any of these three.
 
Even though of the three I personally enjoy Yagudin the most, I had to vote for Hanyu. He has an effortless ease to his jumps and many other aspects to his skating that the others seem to lack (IMO).

That said, I'd still rather watch Patrick Chan do basic stroking skills than watch a full, perfectly-skated program from any of these three.

Poor Patrick; such bad luck! He has all this talent, but things happen when it really counts; sans World titles! I've never cared for his skating unfortunately; the reckless abandon sometimes thinking he can defy the laws of physics/gravity bothers me! It's never really shocking when he falls anymore, but he has commentators so in his corner, it's like it doesn't happen! When Hanya fell twice in Sochi I figured not even Chan can blow this; wrong, wrong, wrong! What is it about Canadian skaters? So many have been just on the cusp from Manning to Chan and all the others inbtwn including Orser, Elvis, & Browning! Browning's one of my all time faves in both Am/Pro ranks! I can still see him being a teammate at one of those TV events like "ICE WARS;" propping up someone like Surya who was so under-appreciated & underscored by judges! OTOH, Patrick can flop all over the place and still get scores reserved for near perfection! He's not stealing titles, but he's still elevated above what he lays down on the ice! :rolleyes::COP::duh::plush::sarah1::yikes:
 
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I haven't paid as much attn. to the tour & the backstories so I have no idea who you're referring to! :duh::confused::yikes:

His girlfriend's mom, who was a dance coach rather than a figure skating coach, became his primary coach, and then he stopped learning new jumps despite having done the 4S in practice back in 2012. The biggest dynamic difference between his former figure skating coach and dance coach was that the figure skating coach would say things like "we are just ordinary people doing extraordinary things" while his dance coach would tell him how great he was and that he deserved high score despite major flaws in his performances.
 
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His girlfriend's mom, who was a dance coach rather than a figure skating coach, became his primary coach, and then he stopped learning new jumps despite having done the 4S in practice back in 2012. The biggest dynamic difference between his former figure skating coach and dance coach was that the figure skating coach would say things like "we are just ordinary people doing extraordinary things" while his dance coach would tell him how great he was and that he deserved high score despite major flaws in his performances.

That's how I see Chan skating; with total abandon at times! I see blood being drawn sooner or later because he has to be being puffed up by something to skate the way he does when keeping his feet would do him in good stead! :rolleyes::wall::kickass::yikes:
 
I watched figure skating every Olympic since 2002 but only in 2014 when I saw Hanyu short program that I got pulled in to continue watching because he actually skated his program to the beat of music with precission, as an audiophile that is hugely satisfying, while when I watch others I saw that the music is merely a background song to these movement required to get marks. Then I found out Hanyu is also an audiophile... So no wonder. To say people are pulled in because of his elf like hence u are referring to his physical appearance is very disrespectful to people who actually drawn in because of his musicality which you claime he is lacking. As someone who is waaayy older than him viewing him as this attractive man rather than a great skater is disgusting thoughts tbh.

Same here! Fellow audiophile too (though not to Yuzu's extreme). To me he oozes musicality and charisma. And it was never about his looks. It's about the skills he lays down on the ice. Intricate and exciting footwork, excellent quality jumps which IMO have become a part of the artistry which is exactly his intention. He makes it a part of the choreography which is what initially caught my attention for him. I got out of closely following skating for some years, but I remember really liking Daisuke in 2010 and then in 2013 when I decided to get back into things I was learning of his teammate who was beating him. I was ready to not like Yuzu, but the second I saw Parisean Walkways I was completely sold (still love Dai and think he has his own style that I enjoy immensely, but I just wasn't upset about it). I found him exciting and expressive in his face and throughout his entire body. No doubt he feels the music to a T. And he's an even better skater now. Watching him live at the Olympics, the command he has is just incredible. I remember watching skate after skate from group one up to him and when he performed it was like a dramatic shift to an entirely different level. "THIS is skating" is what was going on in my head.
 
I watched figure skating every Olympic since 2002 but only in 2014 when I saw Hanyu short program that I got pulled in to continue watching because he actually skated his program to the beat of music with precission, as an audiophile that is hugely satisfying, while when I watch others I saw that the music is merely a background song to these movement required to get marks. Then I found out Hanyu is also an audiophile... So no wonder. To say people are pulled in because of his elf like hence u are referring to his physical appearance is very disrespectful to people who actually drawn in because of his musicality which you claime he is lacking. As someone who is waaayy older than him viewing him as this attractive man rather than a great skater is disgusting thoughts tbh.

Why so sensitive? I am simply not as drawn to Hanyu's skating as a lot of others are, and I'm honest about how I feel. That shouldn't take anything away from how much you treasure his skating. It's rather silly to police others' feelings when you are an uber of a skater, and someone else admiringly and respectfully discusses their honest feelings which differ from yours. We do not all have to agree with each other.

As far as musicality, I personally don't detect that Hanyu is especially musical. He wanders in and out of focusing on artistic expression and musical interpretation, likely due to the crazy technical demands that exist these days in the men's discipline. I think Hanyu is decent musically and artistically, but he's most definitely not the greatest skater ever in those aspects, whereas he's definitely one of the greatest technicians the sport has ever seen.

ETA: Since Hanyu still desires to compete, he may indeed try to focus more attention on further developing artistic qualities. However, the problem is that Hanyu doesn't really have to since the judges appear to agree with you and his other ubers that he's a genius with nothing to improve upon in his skating.
 
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Patrick Chan's SS are absolutely incomparable to anyone else's in the sport. And when Patrick was in the zone, he could put on a clinic. He was unbeatable at such times. It's just the times when Patrick faltered and he was still held up that are sad, because the judges' scoring often detracted from the actual huge impact Patrick had on the sport, in some respects damaging his legacy. Still, I totally respect the fact that Patrick was so dedicated to focusing on and improving his artistry. I'm glad Patrick finally won an Olympic gold medal. And it's all the more memorable for it having been a Canadian team effort.

Every great skater has/had something unique and special to offer. When I think of great artistic skaters, I think of John Curry, and Toller Cranston first and foremost. They truly had it all in terms of artistry and musical expression, as well as technical expertise for their time. Other wonderful artists who could/can weave a story through the music, include Paul Wylie, Matt Savoie, Sasha Abt, Denis Ten, Jeremy Abbott, Alexander Johnson, Dai Takahashi, Takahiko Kozuka, Tatsuki Machida, Timothy Dolensky, and Jason Brown. While his skating skills are lacking, Adam Rippon is a beautiful skater with great musical awareness. As Rippon grew in confidence, he also displayed a sassy performance ability. Misha Ge also does not have great skating skills and he lacked speed, but he's a marvelous artist. As well, some other current skaters who possess great potential musically, artistically and technically, in terms of fully developing all aspects of their skating: Nathan Chen, Shoma Uno, Mikhail Kolyada, Deniss Vasiljevs, Dmitri Aliev.

I think the below skaters became increasingly better as artists and technicians as they matured, especially during their professional careers: Kurt Browning, Rudy Galindo, Scott Williams, Brian Boitano, Brian Orser. I also enjoy watching the skating of John Misha Petkevich from a different era. And I continue to truly love watching the stylish artistry and musicality of Ryan Jahnke and Derrick Delmore. They have both recently competed in U.S. Open pro events with such great aplomb and musical sensitivity. Johnny Weir was extraordinarily precocious technically and expressively. His movement quality was divine, and his jumping ability and rideout on landings, coupled with his erect posture was so amazingly effortless looking, but I would not call him a great artist. He's an inspirational personality and a lovely, innovative skater, but he didn't fully live up to his potential for a variety of reasons. Stephane Lambiel is/was a genius musically and artistically, but he was not always consistent technically. ETA: I've also enjoyed the skating of Ilia Kulik and Alexei Urmanov who were both great technicians with an artistic bent, although not exactly great artists. Oh, and I can't forget Javier Fernandez, an amazing technician with a suspended quality to his jumps that rivals Hanyu's. Javi has worked diligently on improving his range artistically. He was phenomenal at 2016 Worlds.

A shout-out also to Jeffrey Buttle, Christopher Bowman, Joshua Farris, Richard Dornbush, Ross Miner, Jonathan Cassar, and Rohene Ward, albeit for all aside from Buttle, their competitive careers were hampered or shortened in one way or another. Cassar was not great nor consistent technically, and Rohene had bad luck and competitive nerves as well as lack of financial resources. Dornbush and Miner were hampered by the advent of 'quad,' and Farris' career was cut short by injury. And as we know, Bowman suffered from personal demons. However, all of these skaters paid great attention to the musical and artistic aspects of their skating.
 
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Why so sensitive? I am simply not as drawn to Hanyu's skating as a lot of others are, and I'm honest about how I feel. That shouldn't take anything away from how much you treasure his skating. It's rather silly to police others' feelings when you are an uber of a skater, and someone else admiringly and respectfully discusses their honest feelings which differ from yours. We do not all have to agree with each other.

As far as musicality, I personally don't detect that Hanyu is especially musical. He wanders in and out of focusing on artistic expression and musical interpretation, likely due to the crazy technical demands that exist these days in the men's discipline. I think Hanyu is decent musically and artistically, but he's most definitely not the greatest skater ever in those aspects, whereas he's definitely one of the greatest technicians the sport has ever seen.

ETA: Since Hanyu still desires to compete, he may indeed try to focus more attention on further developing artistic qualities. However, the problem is that Hanyu doesn't really have to since the judges appear to agree with you and his other ubers that he's a genius with nothing to improve upon in his skating.

I don't know if you pull down the expand but I did highlight this quote of yours "I think audiences are more pulled into Hanyu's other-worldly elf-like persona" Everyone has their own preferences don't worry I won't judge you and neither does that impact on why I like his skating, but when you phrase it like that, it is very disrespectful because you are presuming the reason on other's interest trying to justify what could be the thing that you don't see attracted fans to Hanyu skating and concluded on his physical attribute. You don't have to love or adore Hanyu but neither you have to put down other people who does in their preference. Using the word "you are an uber of skaters" further proves how judgmental you are towards anyone who's favourite skater is Hanyu just because he is popular (just like everyone else who seems to don't get Hanyu but still want to justify why they don't like Hanyu to other people in every conversation).

I'm a fan of many skaters for example Nan Song and people don't really care for Nan Song I get it, however as much as people don't care for Nan Song people never tried to justify why he is actually a bad skater or anything, but it seems when people talk about Hanyu as if they need to justify why he is so popular when they don't think he is all that thus bringing in the reasons such as "elf-like" "maybe because of only his jumps" "machine-like" so like chill you don't have to like him or trying to justify why he should not be so popular when he has a laundry list of his flaw you don't like.

"ETA: Since Hanyu still desires to compete, he may indeed try to focus more attention on further developing artistic qualities. However, the problem is that Hanyu doesn't really have to since the judges appear to agree with you and his other ubers that he's a genius with nothing to improve upon in his skating."

Woah woah now who is being sensitive. Both of our issue here is that you presume people like Hanyu because of his elf-like physical but apparently arguing that also equal to conclusion that Hanyu doesn't need to improve anything because judges agreed with other "ubers" and "I" that he is perfect. I don't presume to know Hanyu, neither did I know other skaters, but I know enough to be respectful and not accusing athletes whether they don't or still trying hard to improve their flaw, I am just a figure skating fan just like you are who don't know the hard regime of these athlete has to do to achieve their goal. I watch their skating and look at their score, and criticize judges, I don't bash skaters. I respect them even those who I am not "uber" of apparently.
 
Same here! Fellow audiophile too (though not to Yuzu's extreme). To me he oozes musicality and charisma. And it was never about his looks. It's about the skills he lays down on the ice. Intricate and exciting footwork, excellent quality jumps which IMO have become a part of the artistry which is exactly his intention. He makes it a part of the choreography which is what initially caught my attention for him. I got out of closely following skating for some years, but I remember really liking Daisuke in 2010 and then in 2013 when I decided to get back into things I was learning of his teammate who was beating him. I was ready to not like Yuzu, but the second I saw Parisean Walkways I was completely sold (still love Dai and think he has his own style that I enjoy immensely, but I just wasn't upset about it). I found him exciting and expressive in his face and throughout his entire body. No doubt he feels the music to a T. And he's an even better skater now. Watching him live at the Olympics, the command he has is just incredible. I remember watching skate after skate from group one up to him and when he performed it was like a dramatic shift to an entirely different level. "THIS is skating" is what was going on in my head.

That's delighted to know! Same here I am no where near the level of Hanyu's audiophile! He is too extreme. I sometimes forgot how he looks like actually... if that makes sense... lol
 
Oh dear Lala! What can you know about hands? Sometimes Evgeni's hands are beautiful, but Alexei's hands are just MAGICAL ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzeD78uLv_k&t=26s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V0UMJwZdaY&t=26s

We are in peace, right? Yes, he has in a way.. .. but I was talking about this for ex https://twitter.com/miru_shenka/status/579626875510657026 - the fans really like it and make some fan arts abou it. Or the starting of the video https://twitter.com/tamayura_yura/status/1035907903847247872
but you can see the differency of their arm movements this video, too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdDddEkUxqc

@Fiero425

So do you think Alexei was injured on every Rus Nat, on ECH 2000 and 2001, and the two GPF ( 1999/2000 and 2000/2001 ? Poor Alexei..But Plush was healthy always
I'm thinking abou it why Plush has haters if he has such fans as you? :lol:
 
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We are in peace, right? Yes, he has in a way.. .. but I was talking about this for ex https://twitter.com/miru_shenka/status/579626875510657026 - the fans really like it and make some fan arts about it. Or the starting of the video https://twitter.com/tamayura_yura/status/1035907903847247872
but you can see the difference of their arm movements this video, too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdDddEkUxqc

@Fiero425

So do you think Alexei was injured on every Rus Nat, on ECH 2000 and 2001, and the two GPF ( 1999/2000 and 2000/2001 ? Poor Alexei..But Plush was healthy always
I'm thinking about it why Plush has haters if he has such fans as you? :lol:

Russian judges have their faves! We don't get Russian Nat'ls, but Plushy and Irina were the faves! I remember once Maria Butyrskaya was supposed to defend and her car was blown up/fire bombed before she left apt. for the arena! I am a fan, but I'm an honest one unlike most who try to rationalize, deflect, and outright lie about a skater! Love Plushy, but he had his chance to change all our minds in '02, but he disappointed; no show at Euro's and was runner-up to Yags at GPF & Olympics! I have no shame in stating these facts! :rolleyes: :COP: :duh: :revenge: :yikes:
 
I wish Chan was more consistent. If he had been his 2012 and 2013 world titles would have been without controversy and he could have won the 2014 Olympics. No big titles the last few years even at his best but maybe another medal or two at Worlds.
 
We are in peace, right?
You shared your thoughts about hands not once. As far as I remember, it is the first time, when I tell you what I think about hands. :)

I also remember this funny pic - and the comments:
"compare the hands)"
"Are you sure it is Patrick? If it is, he needs to learn, when he has The Master near him))"
https://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/attach/d/0/143/558/143558541_6451579_YHands1.jpg

If we talk about hands or musicality, these videos are awesome ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFveY-jd1vE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5wwKd7FCMU&t=51s
These hands can sing. It seems he has no bones in his arms. These hands can be extremely flowing, can be springy, can be tough. Extremely beautiful ?
(We also talked about sincerity not once. THIS is sincerity. I mean "Muse".)

I'm thinking abou it why Plush has haters if he has such fans as you? :lol:

Well, Evgeni is lucky :)
 
I wasn't going to speak about Hanyu - yet why not, actually?
Sorry, I really watch skating as an art.
Though I understand, of course, that it is a sport. So I'm not right. :)
Just my point of view:
I'm one more viewer for whom Hanyu is boring, with all his skills. I like Browning, Takahashi, Denis Ten, Jason Brown.
I don't have a feeling, that Hanyu is very musical. Maybe I have a feeling, that his body is partly wooden, maybe I have a feeling, that he thinks about executing elements - and nothing more. He is cold.
Maybe even Evgeni is warmer, though Evgeni is cold either. (sorry, Lala)
To say the truth, skating often is boring for me. That is why it is difficult to watch videos I haven't seen before. I mean... I'd like to enjoy, but I don't enjoy, when I see cold wooden sport. (sorry for tough words)

In 2002 I was much younger. I only remember I cheered for both. My sister cheered for Yagudin. I didn't like, that she liked only one of them. :)
(She didn't change my mind in 2002 or later. She wasn't a fan. It seems Yagudin isn't interesting for her now.)
 
Hanyu has accomplished what only one other male skater in the Olympic history of the sport has managed. If that’s what we are basing it on then the answer seems obvious, out of the options Yagudin’s style is my favorite and Plushenko’s longevity is unmatched. If it comes down to skating quality and programs and not just competitive records, I’d throw Jeremy Abbott into the mix.
 
Russian judges have their faves! We don't get Russian Nat'ls, but Plushy and Irina were the faves! I remember once Maria Butyrskaya was supposed to defend and her car was blown up/fire bombed before she left apt. for the arena! I am a fan, but I'm an honest one unlike most who try to rationalize, deflect, and outright lie about a skater! Love Plushy, but he had his chance to change all our minds in '02, but he disappointed; no show at Euro's and was runner-up to Yags at GPF & Olympics! I have no shame in stating these facts! :rolleyes::COP::duh::revenge::yikes:

LOL! This is a very common mistake about their early career. Yag's fans used to say it. https://www.youtube.com/user/RussianNationals you can check their programs.. If you don't want to watch the videos you can check in the descriptions..Plush deserved those victories Plush was stronger and more flawless in technic. Only the Rus Nat 1998 was 50-50%...
And I said again in 2002 Abt was far better as Yag at ECH but the judges gave to Yag the gold. You can check if you forgot it.
And what do you think why Alexei worked with sport psychologist and not Plush after 2001?
 
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