First time Ever Russians have no Ice Dance medal! Reform suggestions?

caseyedwards said:
Maybe they won’t! S/b are 9/11/10 at worlds. They could easily be out of top 10 with a mistake. Z/g just at Olympics were out of top 10. I just hope they place so real reforms can be done and Russia learns about ijs ice dance in 2018.
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S/B don't make those kinds of disastrous mistakes though. A foot down on a twizzle like at Nationals, yes, but they are always respectable. They've become more reliable competitors than some of the teams ahead of them.
 
laviemn said:
S/B don't make those kinds of disastrous mistakes though. A foot down on a twizzle like at Nationals, yes, but they are always respectable. They've become more reliable competitors than some of the teams ahead of them.
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I was thinking of them losing a whole element like a katsalapov team would but they do have severe problems with levels sometimes. The reason why they did so terribly awful at last years worlds. I can see a short dance of mostly level 2 elements. Or 1 even.
 
judgejudy27 said:
Maybe they need to find a way to force more of the top identified young talented girls to go into pairs and dance, splitting them evenly between ladies, pairs, and dance at the grass roots level. While I dont like that semi communist approach it might be the only way.
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But you do like that approach, if you believe that girls should be "forced" into pairs and dance.

Unless you accept the tenets of authoritarianism, becoming an athlete should be a choice, not something that is forced on a person. And a figure skater should be free to make the choice between pairs/dance and singles.
 
Japanfan said:
And a figure skater should be free to make the choice between pairs/dance and singles.
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I'm guessing it all comes down to who is paying. That is figure skaters can stay in a discipline the federation thinks they are not fit for only so long as they foot their training bills themselves. But if a state-sponsored skater is advised to switch from singles to pairs for example and he or she says no, I assume the federation will cut his/her funding and end of story. Simple as that.
 
Now the fact is for the first time since ice dance was in Olympics no Russian ice dance team won a world medal an entire quad!! And it’s not because of no b/s! They weren’t medaling anywhere either.
 
caseyedwards said:
Now the fact is for the first time since ice dance was in Olympics no Russian ice dance team won a world medal an entire quad!! And it’s not because of no b/s! They weren’t medaling anywhere either.
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Easy, they won a Bronze at the Games in 2014.
Stepanova/Bukin are going as Russia #1, but if Z/G improve with their basic skating they might have a word to say.
 
Anyasnake said:
Easy, they won a Bronze at the Games in 2014.
Stepanova/Bukin are going as Russia #1, but if Z/G improve with their basic skating they might have a word to say.
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But that Olympic medal is the 2010-2014 quad! For that quad Russia won a world bronze and Olympic bronze. For 2014-2018 Russia won nothing.

Stepanova May win Russian nationals by a lot over z/g but internationally there is only 4 point difference. Nothing would be lost by making z/g number one. And z/g are both enormously better skaters than Stepanova who is the worst skater in top 10. Probably why s/b are 7th and z/g 8th.
 
caseyedwards said:
But that Olympic medal is the 2010-2014 quad! For that quad Russia won a world bronze and Olympic bronze. For 2014-2018 Russia won nothing.

Stepanova May win Russian nationals by a lot over z/g but internationally there is only 4 point difference. Nothing would be lost by making z/g number one. And z/g are both enormously better skaters than Stepanova who is the worst skater in top 10. Probably why s/b are 7th and z/g 8th.
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Hopefully, this brings enlightenment to the rest of the team that S/B are not gods on the international ID scene just to their Grandmothers and Godmothers, i.e. Besti and TAT.
 
I think some of it is due to lack of ice dancers with enough charisma. A skater can be ever so good technically but an ice dance pair in which one or both skaters lack charisma and ability to play out to the judges and audience they will not win. Of course choreography and techical coaching is important but it's not everything.
 
whiteskates said:
I think some of it is due to lack of ice dancers with enough charisma. A skater can be ever so good technically but an ice dance pair in which one or both skaters lack charisma and ability to play out to the judges and audience they will not win. Of course choreography and techical coaching is important but it's not everything.
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I think Tiffany is very charismatic, she's smart with her haircut for starters :D
But looking at both teams yesterday, watching Ice Dance for years... you kind of understand why Z/G can get level4 on Step sequences and why S/B struggle. While S/B are extremely powerful and also charismatic, with long lines, Z/G have basics that are never going to leave them but made them hit level sconsistently.
 
Anyasnake said:
I think Tiffany is very charismatic, she's smart with her haircut for starters :D
But looking at both teams yesterday, watching Ice Dance for years... you kind of understand why Z/G can get level4 on Step sequences and why S/B struggle. While S/B are extremely powerful and also charismatic, with long lines, Z/G have basics that are never going to leave them but made them hit level sconsistently.
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Yup. Tiff&Jon have basics to die for. Now is time to get real programs. Like in real, with real choreographer to help them, and packaging.
Zhulin & co left them in limbo for 3 seasons, never ever working them to their real potential. In just about 10 months, Kustarova has worked them hard so that they are back to where they started when they teamed up.

IMO Stepanova looked not that pleased at worlds. Bukin was his usual puppy self. The dynamic is kind of broken there, by not being invited to OG. I sure hope we learn why they weren't invited, because that hangs upon their heads.
 
MarieM said:
Yup. Tiff&Jon have basics to die for. Now is time to get real programs. Like in real, with real choreographer to help them, and packaging.
Zhulin & co left them in limbo for 3 seasons, never ever working them to their real potential. In just about 10 months, Kustarova has worked them hard so that they are back to where they started when they teamed up.

IMO Stepanova looked not that pleased at worlds. Bukin was his usual puppy self. The dynamic is kind of broken there, by not being invited to OG. I sure hope we learn why they weren't invited, because that hangs upon their heads.
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Agree, if they improve the packaging, they could be even better !
Well Stepanova wanted that big score to fight for the top spots as of next season, I'm guessing she wanted something like a 76+ and a 112+, to end with a statement to say "we are going for Euro and World titles". The FD lacked that little thing they had at Euros to me. While they can get high PCS for performance for example, they need to step it up on technical if they want to ever challenge H/D and P/C, because these 2 are running and winning with it.
 
I think the problem with S/B is that they do not match physically. She is too tall for him or him too short for her. She seem to no be able to skate up standing. She is always bent forward at the waist and it does nothing good for their team lines.
 
whiteskates said:
I think some of it is due to lack of ice dancers with enough charisma. A skater can be ever so good technically but an ice dance pair in which one or both skaters lack charisma and ability to play out to the judges and audience they will not win. Of course choreography and techical coaching is important but it's not everything.
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If a brother sister team can become world silver medalists and Olympic bronze medalist a Russian team should! Some people reject brother sister teams completley and their having charisma!
 
Sylvia said:
^^^ That BBC article is dated "15:53 GMT, Sunday, 11 April 2010 16:53 UK"?
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But some of the stuff in the article is still true! Popova and mozgov got no ice time! Dancers are not considered deserving compared to ladies and hockey and so on at least area while the reasons may be different ice dance teams can’t train.
 
Anyasnake said:
The FD lacked that little thing they had at Euros to me.

I really liked the FD all season and especially at Euros.I don't know what was different here it just wasn't skated as well and it just lost something which I can't put my finger on as you've mentioned too.Maybe it was the OG and they maybe lost focus? Shame as they were on a high after Euros then the bombshell they weren't going to OG.l
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MarieM said:
Yup. Tiff&Jon have basics to die for. Now is time to get real programs. Like in real, with real choreographer to help them, and packaging.
Zhulin & co left them in limbo for 3 seasons, never ever working them to their real potential. In just about 10 months, Kustarova has worked them hard so that they are back to where they started when they teamed up.

IMO Stepanova looked not that pleased at worlds. Bukin was his usual puppy self. The dynamic is kind of broken there, by not being invited to OG. I sure hope we learn why they weren't invited, because that hangs upon their heads.
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Could that be because Stepanova was unaware till the last moment possible about the situation of Bukin regarding his permission so it was harder for her to deal with? Or was that really shocking for him too? What do you think?
 
Areski said:
Could that be because Stepanova was unaware till the last moment possible about the situation of Bukin regarding his permission so it was harder for her to deal with? Or was that really shocking for him too? What do you think?
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I have no idea.
 
I really think there is a good chance that Stepanova and Bukin will steadily climb the rankings. I really think they have been undermarked by the international judges in favour of Brobova and Sololiev. Let's see what happens... There will likely be a LOT of retirements!
 
"First time Ever Russians have no Ice Dance medal! Reform suggestions?"

Putin could order the repatriation of Marina :blocjudge or at least cause an extended stay while they check for the absence or presence of Russian citizenship :COP:
 
bardtoob said:
"First time Ever Russians have no Ice Dance medal! Reform suggestions?"

Putin could order the repatriation of Marina :blocjudge or at least cause an extended stay while they check for the absence or presence of Russian citizenship :COP:
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Haha let’s face it the coaches are making great money elsewhere.
 
bardtoob said:
"First time Ever Russians have no Ice Dance medal! Reform suggestions?"

Putin could order the repatriation of Marina :blocjudge or at least cause an extended stay while they check for the absence or presence of Russian citizenship :COP:
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Lol! But really it’s about using ijs manuals as a bible
Judy said:
Haha let’s face it the coaches are making great money elsewhere.
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Russia can send its dancers to where the good coaches are! France does. Japan is now. Russia is too poor for Dancers to train in North America?!
 
caseyedwards said:
Lol! But really it’s about using ijs manuals as a bible

Russia can send its dancers to where the good coaches are! France does. Japan is now. Russia is too poor for Dancers to train in North America?!
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But the Russian coaches are free to coach the competition which didn’t happen back in the day.
 
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