Avanta Boot Labs Slam Karen Chen For Boot Problems

[Vagabond]

Avanta has four very favorable reviews on Google and no negative ones.

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...I#lrd=0x88647f9fbb2b6fad:0x75d00cc921c0a1d9,1,,,

I wonder how long that will last.

 

[Debbie S]

I'm interested to see what they told USFSA and why they think USFSA will clarify the issue in their stead? Personally, I'm thinking that USFSA would be more on Chen's side of the issue since she's never gone on an unprofessional rant like that. I mean, can't Avanta be banned by USFSA for the comments they made?

I agree, I wouldn't think USFS (they dropped the "A" from their name some years ago, Avanta should know that) would get involved in sponsorship agreements - I think there is a form/approval process for skater endorsement deals and paid appearances, shows, etc, but I'm not sure it covers in-kind deals, but maybe - but even so, USFS isn't going to speak on behalf of a third party.

 

[overedge]

I would guess that USFS has something the skaters have to sign in return for funding, and that likely includes behaviour clauses. I don't doubt that USFS wants the right to say no if, say, a skater gets a sponsorship offer from the KKK.

But if Avanta is passively aggressively hoping that people contact USFS to express their outrage! , outrage, I tell you!!!, that a skater said bad things about a company that gave her free boots.....well, that makes about as much sense as the rest of their public relations "strategy".

Avanta may have ended the deal, but I think the Chens got the better part of it by being rid of them.

 

[becca]

Well I personally don't think Karen isn't 100 percent innocent in this even if they handled it poorly.

If she is taking money or free boots from them she is not a customer she is an employee and should not be saying anything that could even be considered negative about them.

 

[Deleted member 19433]

I agree, I wouldn't think USFS (they dropped the "A" from their name some years ago, Avanta should know that) would get involved in sponsorship agreements - I think there is a form/approval process for skater endorsement deals and paid appearances, shows, etc, but I'm not sure it covers in-kind deals, but maybe - but even so, USFS isn't going to speak on behalf of a third party.

Officially speaking, it's still the United States Figure Skating Association, which may be abbreviated "U.S. Figure Skating." They still use the web address www.usfsaonline.org for the Members Only site (which is the only place where the former USFSA abbreviation appears in the rulebook) and the address www.usfsa.org still goes to their website also. They don't ever refer to themselves as "USFS" in the rulebook nor does www.usfs.org work (and it isn't in use by anyone else either). It is possible to find informal reference to USFS also, even on U.S. Figure Skating sites, e.g., http://www.shopusfigureskating.com/USFS-Pom-Pom-Beanie_p_259.html). Interestingly, the Google search result for www.usfsa.org shows "USFS or USFSA" in the link itself.

 

[overedge]

Looks like Avanta are planning to be at US Adult Nationals. Hope the local organizing committee and/or USFS are having second thoughts about letting them be there. https://www.avantaskating.com/

 

[flyushka]

People don’t like when someone keeps complaining about something over longer period of time. So they get fed up and stop believing that it is a real issue. They stop taking it seriously. My coach thought my complaining about my hip is in my head. It took a year to be diagnosed, I have seen four different specialists, had various scans and by the time the last one diagnosed that I had labral tear, I already had not one but four injuries in the hip/groin/bottom area, including partially torn ilipsoas and partial tear of one of the gluteus muscles (the body compensated for the labral tear by putting extra strain on other parts of the body). So the fact that the skater keeps complaining over the whole season doesn’t mean that the issue is not real! It just mean that the specialists didn’t figure out what it is and did not fix it. But don’t blame the skater for that.

Yes, this! (Sorry you had such injuries :-/) It says in that article posted upthread that Karen has spondylolisthesis with a lot of nerve impingement problems. Honestly she probably shouldn't be skating at all. I don't know about you guys but I have a herniated disc and if I wear the wrong shoes for an hour or two I get terrible sciatica for days. Skates that put your feet/knees/hips/back out of alignment while training for hours and hours would definitely make a spine problem flare up way worse than that - and in that article she says that's exactly what was happening before finding the Avanta boots. A lot of times "boot problems" are really injury problems. Sure maybe people are tired of hearing about it and don't really understand the underlying issue (I didn't either until seeing that article; I assumed she was having foot injuries), but that doesn't mean it isn't real. Plus, sure, this current generation of skaters is more plugged into social media than any prior generations ever have been, and some overshare. Imagine if skaters from decades prior (Tonya?) had social media what things they might have complained about!

It also sounds like what happened in Pyeongchang wasn't related to those past boot issues at all. It was just a sporadic equipment malfunction that can happen to any skater (see Kwan 2001). Too bad it happened to one with this prior history of boot problems; it's caused people to lump the two problems together. As for the third party stuff, none of us have any idea what went down there. For the people saying she's totally at fault for this, was too lazy to take care of her skates, etc. - I doubt the girl is a skate technician herself. She obviously took them to somebody and tried to have them in working order - problem is, the quality/knowledge base of technicians can really vary, as well as opinions on how to take care of various boot/blade combos, and sometimes things can get messed up through no fault of the skater's own. It's really easy to get conflicting advice on this stuff and trust the wrong person. Also too much moisture could be a problem for boots - who knows, maybe the conditions on the long trip in Korea played a part too.

As I said earlier, regardless of the company's response, her issues are because she has unstable jump technique. No boot is going to fix that. Maybe mitigate it, but until she stops wasting time and actually does something about improving the technique she will continue to have poor performances.

Dude, you don't know that.

 

[overedge]

Well I personally don't think Karen isn't 100 percent innocent in this even if they handled it poorly.

If she is taking money or free boots from them she is not a customer she is an employee and should not be saying anything that could even be considered negative about them.

She's not an employee, she's a sponsored athlete. Not the same thing at all. And since she never mentioned the name of the boots in her interviews, and most of us here didn't know the name of the company until Avanta lost its sh*t online, it really doesn't make much sense to say that she hurt their reputation.

 

[Vagabond]

USFS (they dropped the "A" from their name some years ago, Avanta should know that).

Actually, Avanta appears to be better informed than you on this subject.

Website URL: http://www.usfsa.org/
ISU webpage: https://www.isu.org/member-federations/210-united-states-figure-skating-association

THE UNITED STATES FIGURE SKATING ASSOCIATION

Colorado Secretary of State webpage: http://www.sos.state.co.us/biz/Busi...Y&fileId=19871352608&masterFileId=19871352608

Name THE UNITED STATES FIGURE SKATING ASSOCIATION

 

[Willin]

Yes, the picture depicts the boot sole has separated from the bottom of the boot. The reddish/brown stuff is traces of the glue that once held the sole to the boot. The edges of the grey sole at the separation points, appears frayed and curled away.

Assuming for a moment, the company is correct about alterations, what could they have seen in this picture? Wrong colour glue indicating the sole was re-glued? Was the curled frayed sole edges an indication someone had once attempted to pry loose and remove the sole, re-gluing it incorrectly? Of course, the frayed curling could be due to skidding on the ice.

I don't know. I'm betting what happened was they knew about the equipment issues or whatever she had done and were just reposting the picture because they needed a picture to post.

Since the shill-sounding-guy on this forum said it was a problem of blade mounting and only they could mount the blades properly for this skate brand, it might have been that they knew she either didn't get her blades permanently mounted on the new skates or had them mounted by not-Avanta people.

It also sounds like what happened in Pyeongchang wasn't related to those past boot issues at all. It was just a sporadic equipment malfunction that can happen to any skater (see Kwan 2001). Too bad it happened to one with this prior history of boot problems; it's caused people to lump the two problems together. As for the third party stuff, none of us have any idea what went down there. For the people saying she's totally at fault for this, was too lazy to take care of her skates, etc. - I doubt the girl is a skate technician herself. She obviously took them to somebody and tried to have them in working order - problem is, the quality/knowledge base of technicians can really vary, as well as opinions on how to take care of various boot/blade combos, and sometimes things can get messed up through no fault of the skater's own. It's really easy to get conflicting advice on this stuff and trust the wrong person. Also too much moisture could be a problem for boots - who knows, maybe the conditions on the long trip in Korea played a part too.

This wasn't a sporadic equipment malfunction. From what we know - at least for the boots she posted the picture of - those were old, worn out boots. It's possible she wore the new, non-broken pair from competition. This might be what Avanta is so upset about - they might perceive she portrayed the narratives that her new sparkly boots had a malfunction (implying the boots were made badly), when in reality she was posting a picture of worn out boots having a not-entirely-unusual worn out boot problem.

Someone in this thread mentioned that the USFSA skate guy was from Jackson. Avanta likes to talk about how they're the only one that can work on their skates and any other skate pro may ruin the skates. Certainly that sounds pretentious, but if the boots are as high-tech or specialized as they claim maybe the Jackson guy just wasn't as familiar with them.

 

[Deleted member 19433]

Actually, Avanta appears to be better informed than you on this subject.

Website URL: http://www.usfsa.org/
ISU webpage: https://www.isu.org/member-federations/210-united-states-figure-skating-association

Colorado Secretary of State webpage: http://www.sos.state.co.us/biz/Busi...Y&fileId=19871352608&masterFileId=19871352608

To be fair, in informal speech I do hear "USFS" more often than "USFSA" nowadays so I can understand why seeing "USFSA" would seem wrong or outdated (since that abbreviation used to be officially endorsed by the association and no longer is, even though the old URLs still work, and they dropped the word "association" from their official abbreviated name). But that is definitely one of the least wrong (morally and/or factually) things Avanta has said in the past few days.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Yes, this! (Sorry you had such injuries :-/) It says in that article posted upthread that Karen has spondylolisthesis with a lot of nerve impingement problems. Honestly she probably shouldn't be skating at all. I don't know about you guys but I have a herniated disc and if I wear the wrong shoes for an hour or two I get terrible sciatica for days. Skates that put your feet/knees/hips/back out of alignment while training for hours and hours would definitely make a spine problem flare up way worse than that - and in that article she says that's exactly what was happening before finding the Avanta boots. A lot of times "boot problems" are really injury problems. Sure maybe people are tired of hearing about it and don't really understand the underlying issue (I didn't either until seeing that article; I assumed she was having foot injuries), but that doesn't mean it isn't real. Plus, sure, this current generation of skaters is more plugged into social media than any prior generations ever have been, and some overshare. Imagine if skaters from decades prior (Tonya?) had social media what things they might have complained about!

It also sounds like what happened in Pyeongchang wasn't related to those past boot issues at all. It was just a sporadic equipment malfunction that can happen to any skater (see Kwan 2001). Too bad it happened to one with this prior history of boot problems; it's caused people to lump the two problems together. As for the third party stuff, none of us have any idea what went down there. For the people saying she's totally at fault for this, was too lazy to take care of her skates, etc. - I doubt the girl is a skate technician herself. She obviously took them to somebody and tried to have them in working order - problem is, the quality/knowledge base of technicians can really vary, as well as opinions on how to take care of various boot/blade combos, and sometimes things can get messed up through no fault of the skater's own. It's really easy to get conflicting advice on this stuff and trust the wrong person. Also too much moisture could be a problem for boots - who knows, maybe the conditions on the long trip in Korea played a part too.



Dude, you don't know that.

Don't know what?

 

[becca]

She's not an employee, she's a sponsored athlete. Not the same thing at all. And since she never mentioned the name of the boots in her interviews, and most of us here didn't know the name of the company until Avanta lost its sh*t online, it really doesn't make much sense to say that she hurt their reputation.

If she has them on her website than they are easy to find. Also they likely weren't sponsoring her out of goodness or their heart so likely wanted to see say they are her boot maker and then she does this.

Not saying losing their cool was k. But if f Karen wants the right to complain about boots online than she shouldn't take any sponsorship deals from boot companies.

So I think they got a right to be ticked off. She is once again not a customer but a paid representative.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

Yes, this! (Sorry you had such injuries :-/) It says in that article posted upthread that Karen has spondylolisthesis with a lot of nerve impingement problems. Honestly she probably shouldn't be skating at all. I don't know about you guys but I have a herniated disc and if I wear the wrong shoes for an hour or two I get terrible sciatica for days. Skates that put your feet/knees/hips/back out of alignment while training for hours and hours would definitely make a spine problem flare up way worse than that - and in that article she says that's exactly what was happening before finding the Avanta boots. A lot of times "boot problems" are really injury problems. Sure maybe people are tired of hearing about it and don't really understand the underlying issue (I didn't either until seeing that article; I assumed she was having foot injuries), but that doesn't mean it isn't real.
.

Thanks for this post. Too much "stop whining"-posturing is in many cases counterproductive. We don't know about it, we should not assume it's a false excuse. For years and years, hockey players were ignoring their concussions because it was considered weak to complain about pain. Sure there are people who would constantly complain over every little ache, but there is no chance in hell any elite figure skater would be among that group. They fall, they hurt everywhere, they sometimes can't sit because of all the bruises, Wagner had what, seven concussions, and on and on. These girls are tough.

 

[overedge]

If she has them on her website than they are easy to find. Also they likely weren't sponsoring her out of goodness or their heart so likely wanted to see say they are her boot maker and then she does this.

Not saying losing their cool was k. But if f Karen wants the right to complain about boots online than she shouldn't take any sponsorship deals from boot companies.

So I think they got a right to be ticked off. She is once again not a customer but a paid representative.

Again, she never named the boot company. And even if she had, there are way better ways to deal with it in public than by accusing her of lying and of disgracing the status of Olympic athlete.

 

[BittyBug]

Actually, Avanta appears to be better informed than you on this subject.

Website URL: http://www.usfsa.org/
ISU webpage: https://www.isu.org/member-federations/210-united-states-figure-skating-association

Colorado Secretary of State webpage: http://www.sos.state.co.us/biz/Busi...Y&fileId=19871352608&masterFileId=19871352608

In this case, everyone is correct (sort of). The legal / official name of the organization is the United States Figure Skating Association, as it has always been. Historically, this was abbreviated as USFSA and the organization was marketed by that acronym. Sometime back in the 00's, the organization rebranded from USFSA to U.S. Figure Skating. With that change, they have been very specific that they no longer go by any acronyms.

From the U.S. Figure Skating website:

• We are U.S. Figure Skating and should be referred to as such in all references. Abbreviations USFSA and USFS are not acceptable.

Of course, it's highly impractical to constantly be typing out "U.S. Figure Skating" all the time, so people are going to abbreviate the name, either reverting to the prior USFSA or going with a more contemporary USFS, but the organization does not condone this and their style guide expressly prohibits such abbreviations.

 

[overedge]

BTW @becca Karen's website doesn't mention Avanta, or if it does it's not very visible:
http://figureskatersonline.com/karenchen/

The other possibility is that she's faster at deleting online content than Avanta is

 

[Vagabond]

We are U.S. Figure Skating and should be referred to as such in all references. Abbreviations USFSA and USFS are not acceptable.

Says you!

 

[Spun Silver]

BTW @becca Karen's website doesn't mention Avanta, or if it does it's not very visible:
http://figureskatersonline.com/karenchen/

The other possibility is that she's faster at deleting online content than Avanta is

I think the latter. When I was googling her and Avanta last night, Google showed me a preview quote on her site that said something like, "I want to thank Avanta Labs. Without you I would have quit skating two years ago." Needless to say, I could not find that quote on her site.

 

[flyushka]

This wasn't a sporadic equipment malfunction. From what we know - at least for the boots she posted the picture of - those were old, worn out boots. It's possible she wore the new, non-broken pair from competition. This might be what Avanta is so upset about - they might perceive she portrayed the narratives that her new sparkly boots had a malfunction (implying the boots were made badly), when in reality she was posting a picture of worn out boots having a not-entirely-unusual worn out boot problem.

Hmm, I don't know how you can get that from that extreme close up almost abstract pic of one tiny portion of the skate. You'd need to see the ankle to know if it was really worn out, and anyway it doesn't matter - it would have been totally her choice to use whichever pair felt best. Plenty of skaters use horribly broken down skates in competition, probably putting them at risk for who knows what but it's what they figured gave them the best chance for a good skate. Maybe the newer pair didn't feel quite right yet and she felt better with an older pair. It's not that easy to get the timing right on one pair, let alone 2 or 3. I don't think any elite skater would have thought it was a problem with Avanta's craftmanship, it just comes with the territory (I don't remember anyone criticizing Kwan for letting her heel separate, or whatever boot company it was?). Anyway that wasn't really my point - whether or not it was an old pair, it was a one-off equipment failure, not a chronic boot issue leading to an injury exacerbation like her pre-Avanta skates.

I do remember some weirdness with Klingbeil and blade mounting back in my day. I feel like it would compound the problem if they aren't willing to work with outside skate pros to let them know how things should be done with their product.

Don't know what?

What you posted - that all Karen's issues can be blamed on bad technique and she should just fix it. It seems like "bad technique" is a pretty common bogeyman for all kinds of ills on this board, it's not just you. What exactly is it about her technique that's caused her problems, in your view? Do you work with her? Know about her day to day training, chronic aches and pains, her history with learning the jumps, etc? Because I mean she gave a perfectly valid reason for what's been going on that has nothing to do with jump technique - spondylosis and spondylolisthesis are very common injuries for gymnasts and figure skaters that have to do with hyperextension of the spine (hello layback and Biellmann, not jumps), especially adolescent spines. Anyway if technique was so easy to fix nobody would have bad technique!

 

[thvu]

Says you!

I truly hope this is sarcastic.

 

[skatingguy]

Of course, it's highly impractical to constantly be typing out "U.S. Figure Skating" all the time, so people are going to abbreviate the name, either reverting to the prior USFSA or going with a more contemporary USFS, but the organization does not condone this and their style guide expressly prohibits such abbreviations.

That seems to be for organizations using the logo - like committees organizing events - I don't think it's intended to apply to the public or the media.

 

[BittyBug]

That seems to be for organizations using the logo - like committees organizing events - I don't think it's intended to apply to the public or the media.

I can't readily find a copy online to which to link, but this language is in their style guide and it's not just limited to the logo. Of course it's not intended to apply to the public because they can't impose restrictions on what the public says, but it is absolutely intended to extend to the media, should they care about such details.

 

[purple skates]

And no, Karen doesn't need Avanta - THEY needed HER. She's the skater with the name out there not them. No one had even heard of them, outside of their clients and skaters who had tried their brand, even here in a skating forum many hadn't heard of them until they opened their stupid mouths.

Maybe fans hadn’t heard of them, but many skaters have. I know they’ve been discussed on my Facebook adult skating group, and personally I had heard of them before they even started business. The loss of Klingbeil was a big deal for many skaters.

Looks like Avanta are planning to be at US Adult Nationals. Hope the local organizing committee and/or USFS are having second thoughts about letting them be there. https://www.avantaskating.com/

Why? I personally think the Edea rep in the US is a snake in the grass (I had a very bad experience when I purchased skates from them at an AN), but I don’t dispute his right to be there.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

Maybe fans hadn’t heard of them, but many skaters have. I know they’ve been discussed on my Facebook adult skating group, and personally I had heard of them before they even started business. The loss of Klingbeil was a big deal for many skaters.

Why? I personally think the Edea rep in the US is a snake in the grass (I had a very bad experience when I purchased skates from them at an AN), but I don’t dispute his right to be there.

Did you read my post or just skim over it? I SAID "No one had even heard of them, outside of their clients and skaters who had tried their brand."

If you've read other posts here you would see that many others 'even on a skating forum' as I wrote in my previous post, hadn't even heard of them. And many here I am sure are not just fans, but former skaters! But now, thanks to their stupid comments on IG people for sure know of their existence now, but for the wrong reasons!

And once again, Avanta take the low road and slam Karen on their Instagram as they drop their sponsorship:
https://www.instagram.com/p/BgCf3HHA_OU/?taken-by=avantabootlabs

• avantabootlabsMarch 7, 2018 Avanta stands by its decision to end our sponsorship with Karen Chen. This decision was based on the expectation that the behavior of an Olympian is beyond reproach. Unfortunately, to avoid scrutiny by continued unbecoming behavior, we felt it necessary to exercise our right to discontinue this relationship. We wish Karen and her family the best and hope that we all may revisit our partnership when these private issues are resolved. For further clarification, please contact USFSA.
  Sincerely,
  
  Avanta Boot Labs

Good for Karen to no longer be associated with these unprofessional jerks.

 

[purple skates]

Did you read my post or just skim over it? I SAID "No one had even heard of them, outside of their clients and skaters who had tried their brand."

My reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. More than just “clients and skaters who have tried their brand” have heard of them. Avanta is a known brand to current US skaters. Just because some fans haven’t heard of them doesn’t make them illegitimate or unknown.

 

[Vagabond]

I truly hope this is sarcastic.

I want to be introduced as “Calvin, boy of destiny.” But you have to say it right, pause a little after “boy,” and say “Destiny” a bit slower and deeper for emphasis. Say it, “Boy….. Of Dessstiny,” Like that!

 

[berthesghost]

Media: “usfs in historic slump after worst oly results in 4 decades! Once dominant ladies continue 12 year slump.”

Usfs: “ please call us US figure skating”

 

[mag]

I feel like it would compound the problem if they aren't willing to work with outside skate pros to let them know how things should be done with their product.

This is the bit I am having trouble with. How are skaters who don’t live in California supposed to deal with their skates? Stuff happens all the time. Local skate techs need to be able to make adjustments.

 

[Skittl1321]

My reading comprehension is just fine, thank you. More than just “clients and skaters who have tried their brand” have heard of them. Avanta is a known brand to current US skaters. Just because some fans haven’t heard of them doesn’t make them illegitimate or unknown.

I don't think it is inaccurate though to say they are not a well known brand.
Certainly many people on this forum who skate, and therefore buy and own skates, had never heard of them.