Avanta Boot Labs Slam Karen Chen For Boot Problems

[WildRose]

I think the point is that Karen Chen is not the only skater to have had boot problems that lasted for a long time, perhaps as a way of suggesting that maybe it's not necessarily the skater that's the problem, that these things do happen. It's not to say it's the boot maker either. It never occurred to me that it was. I find it curious when there are enough skaters that have had issues with boots, that fans who have zero experience with the matter like to come in and say the skater is making excuses. I've always assumed the issues are legitimate, regardless of whether I like the skater or not.

I didn’t even mention her boot problems, much less say she was making excuses, but for the record, I am well aware that skaters can and do, have boot problems, and it’s awful. I was just surprised that apparently she didn’t have her blades properly mounted and her skates checked by a qualified figure skate technician because at our skating club it is something even low level skaters are expected to do before they compete. If she doesn’t have time to go see a good skate guy then make arrangements for him to go to her. Where was her coach while this was going on? I just think the whole thing is really unfortunate and it makes me wonder what kind of support she has.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

The irony is that Karen needs Avanta.

Uh....no, she doesn't. Nobody needs someone or something that treats them that way. She should tell them to **** off.

If the boot company felt it was necessary to respond, they should have released a respectful statement outlining all of the issues they raised here in this thread. But even that would have been too much. Karen never disparaged the company itself. What did they want, for her to blame someone else for altering the boots? If that happened? They want her to break down and grovel for public apology that it's her fault she always has boot problems?

****ing nonsense. FIRE ALL THE PEOPLE

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

Equipment issues can be a nightmare, often happening at the wrong place at the wrong time.

We need a good thread on historical incidents of equipment SABOTAGE. It has happened in skating. That's even more

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

We need a good thread on historical incidents of equipment SABOTAGE. It has happened in skating. That's even more

Well, there was that time Sonja Henie dropped a six pack of Schnapps on my instep.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

The calls for Avanta to go out of business seem excessive to me. The irony is that Karen needs Avanta. In an article I can't locate right now (but just read last night) Karen described Avanta as the solution to the boot struggles with which we are all so familiar.

It sounds like Murillo is a true master craftsman who has helped a lot of elite skaters including Karen. As a not so masterly craftsperson myself I have a ton of respect for people who make amazing things with their hands and specialized equipment. They are unique and not replaceable. I also know what it's like to run a tiny organization and live much of your life in a state of frayed nerves. I also know that some people should never be given a megaphone because they just don't have a sense of what you can and can't say in public. Not that I would want Murillo to talk to Karen like that in private either but the print magnified it so much.

So I would love to see a mediated solution that allows Karen to go on getting the boots that fit her best and the tiny custom boot studio to stay in business. Maybe a joint Instagram post in which Avanta apologizes for misunderstanding and speaking harshly of Karen and Karen clarifies that her boot problems are in no way Avanta's fault -- assuming that is the case... from what I read the problems are due to her flat feet and she went through all the boot companies without success before finding this one. Happy ending.


(Totally OT: Why did the little dog stop running? )

Oh please, Karen never mentioned Avanta OR Murillo by name. Avanta attacked her PERSONALLY in an outrageous manner. On Instagram, on Twitter and HERE.

It may seem excessive to you for anyone to be so rightfully outraged as to want them out of business but it sure isn't to me. They also called out Karen's MOM. Avanta played sock puppet on Twitter which has now been saved by screen cap for all eternity. They also came on HERE with some fake account, pretending they're not the owners themselves and attacked Karen AND her mom AGAIN. Calling Karen a LIAR. They MEAN to do Karen and her family harm. They'll be lucky if the Chen's don't sue them for libel, defamation of character, emotional duress and anything else an attorney can think up. Even if they don't win a dime it will still put that jerk's obnoxious character out there for all to see. I sure as hell would sue if some company attacked me AND my mom on social media that way! But I guess that's okay for some.

And no, Karen doesn't need Avanta - THEY needed HER. She's the skater with the name out there not them. No one had even heard of them, outside of their clients and skaters who had tried their brand, even here in a skating forum many hadn't heard of them until they opened their stupid mouths. Anyone with a healthy dose of self-respect would NEVER do business with them again, even if they were giving her free equipment. The lowest blow was that crap comment they made about her as an Olympian. How DARE they? If I were Karen I'd slap that moron right across the face. That's exactly what he deserves.

 

[Spun Silver]

Here is the article I mentioned before. Maybe there is another boot company for her out there, but she looked hard before settling on Avanta.
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01...illed-with-slips-and-misses-for-skating-star/

Man, this girl has had horrible physical problems!

 

[allezfred]

Very disgraceful and unprofessional by the boot company.

Unfortunately we are seeing this kind of conduct take place often with many younger startups and executives. I think it's the social media generation, these people are toxic and their minds are warped. Many of them are total narcissists and don't have any concept for respect, class, or traditional values.

Pot. Kettle. Black.

 

[Shutomei]

Isn't this largely a case of her word v. their word? I'm sure Karen's version of the story is going to differ, but at least we all know that Avanta makes custom skates. Probably a terrible way to publicize your company, but thx info.

 

[genevieve]

*sighs* I'll add "skating boots" to the list of things that the older generations accuse the Millennials of ruining, shall I? Next you'll be saying that's why I can't afford a house, because we're too busy wrecking skating boots.

Not to further pull this discussion away from Karen Chen and Avanta boots, but WTF is up with the Millenial "that's why I can't buy a house" BS (because I see it all over the internet lately)? Plenty of Gen Xers either couldn't buy houses until they were in their 30s or 40s, or not at all. It's not some new conspiracy that suddenly was done to screw over Millenials.

As for this story.... I'm waiting for the inevitable "taking time away from the company....." statement. Regardless of Chen's boot issues, what a horrible PR move by Avanta

 

[CantALoop]

This is what happened:

For 2 years Avanta has been fitting Karen Chen with the world’s most technologically advanced figure skating boots. Every pair of Avanta boots that were built were identical and tested by Karen satisfaction. The pictures of Karen’s Olympic boot posted shows a misrepresentation of the truth. After Avanta inspected the two pairs of Olympic boots they noticed that the blade mounting, blade adjustment and other miscellaneous work done to the skates were done incorrectly by a third party.

Reasons for the occurred problem was due to the following:

1. The blade mounted by the 3rd party was out of alignment.
2. The blades were mounted with incorrect screws (with inadequate threading and too short to reach and grab onto the leather layer of the midsoles).
3. The blades were also attached via temporary mounting - with only 4 screws (2 at the heel plate, and 2 at the sole plate of the blade). Temporary mounting is only done during the initial mounting and try-outs of the blades, but, should be upgraded to permanent mounting once the blade balance is perfected and the skates are ready for training and competitions.

With the incorrect mounting, Karen felt out of balance. Instead of adjusting the blades and finding the balance, the third party tried to correct Karen’s balance with self-made wedges that were placed outside of her boots. Both, the wedge underneath the insole and underneath the blade was not indicated, and they also contributed to the damage of the boots.

It is unfortunate that neither Karen nor her coach or her mom took the time to make sure Karen gets her blades permanently and adequately mounted prior to her departure to the Olympics. Karen’s family have said it was impossible to have access to Avanta before Karen’s competitions.

Take a hint from Mirai's post-Olympic interviews - sometimes it's best to know when to walk away and shut up.

Also, it's a good idea not to hire @caseyedwards to handle your PR and write the copy for your social media accounts

 

[misskarne]

Not to further pull this discussion away from Karen Chen and Avanta boots, but WTF is up with the Millenial "that's why I can't buy a house" BS (because I see it all over the internet lately)? Plenty of Gen Xers either couldn't buy houses until they were in their 30s or 40s, or not at all. It's not some new conspiracy that suddenly was done to screw over Millenials.

Can't speak for everyone, of course, but the general view is that Xers (here) got the benefits of some huge tax breaks for investment properties, flooded the market buying investments, drove the house prices up, and then when Millennials complained about the price of housing, told them it was all their stupid fault for doing things like buying avocados. Or that they're too lazy to work hard. I saw a breakdown of the statistics once and relative to annual salary the comparisons aren't the same - there's dozens of studies that show that relative to annual salary housing is more unaffordable now than it was thirty years ago. This is a decent graph that makes the point. The blue line shows the price of housing as a ratio of annual income. It shows that in 1987, house prices were just under 2.5 times annual income. Now it's more than 6.

Ahem. Sorry for the thread derailment.

 

[Japanfan]

Maybe I'm too tired to be taking in the details here, but I'm finding I have some sympathy for the company's POV. It seems to me that if the criticism of it was not directly stated, it may have inferred.

I do agree that the company's posting was unprofessional, however, - totally unprofessional.

Some of the work I do involves communications for business students, and would fully expect an email like that to receive a fail. Some 'blah-blah-blah- was needed instead!

 

[berthesghost]

Not to mention borderline actionable by accusing her of deliberate misrepresentation of the quality of the company's products. Avanta could be in for a world of hurt if the Chens decide to lawyer up.

yeah, because everybody knows 3 wrongs make a right. There is nobody who looks good in this embarrassingly public cat fight. Karen should imo count herself lucky that the boot company f-ed up and now public opinion is on her side. She should ride her lucky wave by appearing to stay above it not grovel down in the muck with petty law suits against a struggling small business her fans and defenders are trying to ruin because they dared to say bad words. People can rant all they want about bad customer service, PR etc but the posters frothing at the mouth screaming “gillotine!” just because someone lost their temper really is everything that is wrong with society today imho, not social media.

 

[thvu]

People can rant all they want about bad customer service, PR etc but the posters frothing at the mouth screaming “gillotine!” just because someone lost their temper really is everything that is wrong with society today imho, not social media.

For a company to have “lost their temper” in this manner is completely unacceptable. There is simply no reasonable or rational excuse. In addition to being “bad customer service, PR”, it’s simply bad business practice. IMO, the rant, the obvious lying, and the subterfuge are indicative of Avanta’s values. Why would we, as fans, skaters, and parents of skaters want this company anywhere near this sport after they’ve shown us who they are?

I truly don’t understand how somehow can objectively evaluate Avanta’s behavior and believe they’re a company that deserves to be in business.

 

[Sylvia]

I agree, I already talked with the owner and it's in the process of being removed.

The original Instagram post is still up as of now.

 

[Vagabond]

The writer of that despicable Instagram post from Avanta, Will Murillo, is a man in his late 40s/early 50s. So definitely not a member of the “social media generation” that you consider to be warped, toxic, narcissistic, and devoid of respect or class. If anything, if he was a member of this terrible social media generation, he would probably know better than to post that kind of stupidity on such a platform.

My bad. I read elsewhere that he was around 49-51 and went with it without verifying. Nevertheless, while he’s 10 years younger than I thought he was, he’s still not a member of the generation that actually grew up with the rise of social media.

I strongly suspect, @MRani, that you have Will Murillo confused with Charles Sinek:

September 2016: Charles Rainer Sinek convicted of drug trafficking, age 51. https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndny/pr/jury-convicts-california-man-conspiring-distribute-opiates

July 2017: Handra and Sinek welcome a baby, age "48" (?). http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017...ra-sinek-reveling-in-being-first-time-parents

 

[VGThuy]

For a company to have “lost their temper” in this manner is completely unacceptable. There is simply no reasonable or rational excuse. In addition to being “bad customer service, PR”, it’s simply bad business practice. IMO, the rant, the obvious lying, and the subterfuge are indicative of Avanta’s values. Why would we, as fans, skaters, and parents of skaters want this company anywhere near this sport after they’ve shown us who they are?

I truly don’t understand how somehow can objectively evaluate Avanta’s behavior and believe they’re a company that deserves to be in business.

This. All of this. I believe the ones who are failing to look at Avanta’s behavior as a whole and are expressing that Karen posting a pic of her boot and [annoyingly] mentioning boot problems and having a bad Olympic showing and having an inconsistent career is equitable to what Avanta did truly believe Karen deserves to be punished for her aforementioned sins and don’t mind the truly reprehensible behavior of the company but mind how that behavior has made Karen sympathetic for many. For them, it’s about Karen getting what she deserves, which is negative attention, and if it was a more liked skater or ones they like, then their reactions towards Avanta would be different.

And, IMO, suing them isn’t a wrong or petty considering how Avanta has worked to ruin Karen’s reputation with maliscious intent through its post on IG, making fake accounts to attack Karen, making all sorts of insinuations, calling her a liar, and through SNG spreading the same on FSU. I would prefer both parties find a solution outside the courtroom, but Avanta invited legal action with its behavior.

 

[MsZem]

I agree, I already talked with the owner and it's in the process of being removed.

The process basically entails clicking "delete". How much time does that take? Not as much as removing all the comments would have taken, or creating sockpuppets.

 

[Deleted member 221]

Maybe I'm too tired to be taking in the details here, but I'm finding I have some sympathy for the company's POV. It seems to me that if the criticism of it was not directly stated, it may have inferred.

I don't have any sympathy for the company's POV, and I don't think any criticism is inferred.

e.g., I'm a distance runner. I've had running shoes break down unexpectedly. I've posted on social media that I've had to go back to old shoes right before a race, that I'm experiencing problem with shoes, or (once) that I was in the orthopedist's office. Am I blaming the shoe? No! Am I blaming the shoe manufacturer? No! Am I blaming the person who sold me the shoe? No! In all cases, when I've gone back to old shoes or when I've bought new ones, they've been the same brand as the broken ones.

Sometimes sh*t happens. If the left shoe breaks down before the right shoe, it's most likely because I was unevenly distributing my weight. If I start to experience more wear in the heels, it's because my stride is wrong. When I'm seriously running, the smallest adjustment due to slight injury or whatnot, can affect the wear and tear on my shoes. None of this is the manufacturer's fault, but it doesn't lessen my frustration at having broken-down shoes at a moment where I really need working ones.

Karen Chen has recognized that she goes through boots way faster than most skaters; if anything, I think she has acknowledged and inferred that she knows something about her skating is causing this. It doesn't lessen her frustration any. She expressed frustration (as I did, in my example) that her equipment wasn't working the way she wished it were, but I haven't seen anything that assigned blame.

I'd hazard a guess that she probably would have continued wearing Avanta, and even continued promoting Avanta, the same way I continue to wear New Balance (hope they don't slam me on social media ). But now....

 

[Wyliefan]

I agree, I already talked with the owner and it's in the process of being removed.

I see the post is still up. That "delete" process must be super-strenuous.

 

[Rainbow]

Do we know what happened to the second pair of boots she took with her to Korea?
It is mentioned in this article that she was outfitted with at least two pairs of skates for the Olys:
http://www.nbcolympics.com/news/inc...karen-chen-looks-towards-pyeongchang-olympics

 

[binbinwinwin]

I see the post is still up. That "delete" process must be super-strenuous.

Strange because deleting this sure wasn't that difficult for them.

 

[Rainbow]

Eta: According to this article the second pair might have been the worn out one:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/30/karen-chen-has-another-cold-but-shes-not-panicking/

 

[kittysk8ts]

I think the point is that Karen Chen is not the only skater to have had boot problems that lasted for a long time, perhaps as a way of suggesting that maybe it's not necessarily the skater that's the problem, that these things do happen. It's not to say it's the boot maker either. It never occurred to me that it was. I find it curious when there are enough skaters that have had issues with boots, that fans who have zero experience with the matter like to come in and say the skater is making excuses. I've always assumed the issues are legitimate, regardless of whether I like the skater or not.

Agree with you Erin

Kevin Reynolds had "boot" problems for a couple of seasons, if I recall correctly, but he explained the factors involved.

http://torontosun.com/2015/01/16/fi...hips/wcm/79740ee2-c5aa-485d-9b3c-b45d9e67fb0e

 

[AxelAnnie]

Eta: According to this article the second pair might have been the worn out one:
https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/01/30/karen-chen-has-another-cold-but-shes-not-panicking/

The first article Karen was quoted as saying the boot company fit her with two new pair of boots for the OLYS. That is a lot of money Avanti spent on her, since they were sponsoring her, to have her then go out and say her boots were the problem.

 

[soogar]

Agree with you Erin

Kevin Reynolds had "boot" problems for a couple of seasons, if I recall correctly, but he explained the factors involved.

http://torontosun.com/2015/01/16/fi...hips/wcm/79740ee2-c5aa-485d-9b3c-b45d9e67fb0e

I really don't understand how boot manufacturers haven't solved that problem of narrow heel and broad forefoot for stock boots. Only SP Teri seemed to address this - i see Harlick now has this as well. I have the same issue and the heat moldable boots never solve the problem of the heel moving around inside the skate. I wonder if the lighter skates break down so quickly that it negates the value of custom boots. No point in building a custom lightweight boot if it is going to break down in two months. I feel for both parties. The manufacturer was wrong to blame her publicly but I'm not sure how profitable it is for a small operation to outfit a top level skater who goes through boots quickly. Sounds like a frustrating situation all around. I hope Karen can find a boot that would work for her. Ideally with this wear and tear stock boots work the best since they are easier to replace.

 

[Vagabond]

Sekret video footage of Avanta Boot Labs company meeting yesterday

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Well, there was that time Sonja Henie dropped a six pack of Schnapps on my instep.

Or that time Kat Witt dropped her flask in my carryon at Airport screening in Grenoble.

 

[Debbie S]

I really don't understand how boot manufacturers haven't solved that problem of narrow heel and broad forefoot for stock boots. Only SP Teri seemed to address this - i see Harlick now has this as well. I have the same issue and the heat moldable boots never solve the problem of the heel moving around inside the skate.

Same problem here. SP-Teri didn't work for me (ball area too narrow), but maybe they might have with a split width. Harlicks are known for being narrow/slender so I would be skeptical but I would need to see for myself. Jacksons worked in the ball area but the heel was too wide. I returned them after 2 weeks. After that, I got custom Klingbeils.

 

[Rob]

I don't have any sympathy for the company's POV, and I don't think any criticism is inferred.

I agree. She's made reference to her foot problems so many times that I didn't infer that it was the bootmaker's fault.
If Avanta took issue with her or the photo, I assume it has a sponsorship agreement with her or her parents -- it should have written her a letter referring to whatever provision of the agreement she violated. If she is not allowed to alter the boots with a third party, the company should have written her a letter telling her to cease and desist/take down the photo or to specify that the third party alterations were not standard. Or demand reasonable damages to the company's reputation. No need to call an 18-yr old athlete names.