Avanta Boot Labs Slam Karen Chen For Boot Problems

[WildRose]

Boot problems that lasted a long time.

Sorry, but I’m still not seeing the connection. Even skaters who don’t have chronic boot problems take care of their equipment and get it checked before a major competition.

 

[thvu]

I totally agree that this situation could have been handled differently, I was not the one who posted it. I am working with them and I can only offer my suggestions. We did stand behind Karen for the past two years, but the #bootproblems and lies (using a third party to modify Avanta product) could only go so far. If she mentioned that her boot problem was an issue after using the third party it would be a different story, right?

The hole keeps getting bigger! And Avanta is the one doing all the digging! Bankruptcy it is!

 

[MacMadame]

I also have to wonder why an elite skater wouldn’t have her blades mounted properly and her boots checked by her skate expert before she left for the Olympics. Her equipment should have been a priority.

How do you know she didn't?

from what everyone is saying, the issues with the blade were due to a third party.

Only Avanta has said that.

What does Kevin Reynolds have to do with Karen Chen not getting her blades mounted properly and her skates checked before she went to the Olympics?

Again, how do you know she didn't do that?

 

[Deleted member 53443]

Seriously, who was that third party person that puts four screws in her skates? Anyone who bought skates from any professional knows that is just temporarily, and actually dangerous since they might not even hold up for her landings.

 

[Erin]

What does Kevin Reynolds have to do with Karen Chen not getting her blades mounted properly and her skates checked before she went to the Olympics?

I think the point is that Karen Chen is not the only skater to have had boot problems that lasted for a long time, perhaps as a way of suggesting that maybe it's not necessarily the skater that's the problem, that these things do happen. It's not to say it's the boot maker either. It never occurred to me that it was. I find it curious when there are enough skaters that have had issues with boots, that fans who have zero experience with the matter like to come in and say the skater is making excuses. I've always assumed the issues are legitimate, regardless of whether I like the skater or not.

 

[Aerobicidal]

"Getting screwed by a third party" would be an excellent rep level. It covers the two most important subjects in skating: THE SEX and THE KORRUPT POLITIKS.

 

[aliceanne]

In these situations, I always ask myself, WWTBD?

(obviously, that stands for What Would The Belbins Do?)

Skate! Fight!
Skate! Fight!

 

[overedge]

Not impressed with @SNG comments here, regardless of who did or didn't make the earlier posts elsewhere. I follow skating as a fan and skater, and while I knew that Chen was having boot problems, I have never heard her mention a name of a boot company. I also have never heard of Avanta before today, but based on its behaviour, its products will definitely not be on my list the next time I need new boots.

I hope @SNG also sees the irony in joining FSU to make public posts defending Avanta and further criticizing Chen, and then to proclaim that "future discussions will be conducted privately". Sorry, but this conflict is a public one now, and Avanta made it public. It's not going to become private now just because you decide it is.

 

[StitchMonkey]

So if I took a picture of my car and said #carproblems, it's just a car problem, right? The manufacturer of the car has nothing to do with it?

Correct. It is just a car problem. Why would anyone think it has anything to do with the manufacture? 99% of people are would probably blame the driver for either their driving or lack of maintenance. Heck, you'd be lucky if half the people even recognized the car manufacturer.

 

[just tuned in]

Seriously, who was that third party person that puts four screws in her skates? Anyone who bought skates from any professional knows that is just temporarily, and actually dangerous since they might not even hold up for her landings.

Seriously. I see a new role for the USFSA not only to monitor skaters' fitness, but also to monitor their equipment maintenance practices.

 

[misskarne]

This is what happened:

For 2 years Avanta has been fitting Karen Chen with the world’s most technologically advanced figure skating boots. Every pair of Avanta boots that were built were identical and tested by Karen satisfaction. The pictures of Karen’s Olympic boot posted shows a misrepresentation of the truth. After Avanta inspected the two pairs of Olympic boots they noticed that the blade mounting, blade adjustment and other miscellaneous work done to the skates were done incorrectly by a third party.

Reasons for the occurred problem was due to the following:

1. The blade mounted by the 3rd party was out of alignment.
2. The blades were mounted with incorrect screws (with inadequate threading and too short to reach and grab onto the leather layer of the midsoles).
3. The blades were also attached via temporary mounting - with only 4 screws (2 at the heel plate, and 2 at the sole plate of the blade). Temporary mounting is only done during the initial mounting and try-outs of the blades, but, should be upgraded to permanent mounting once the blade balance is perfected and the skates are ready for training and competitions.

With the incorrect mounting, Karen felt out of balance. Instead of adjusting the blades and finding the balance, the third party tried to correct Karen’s balance with self-made wedges that were placed outside of her boots. Both, the wedge underneath the insole and underneath the blade was not indicated, and they also contributed to the damage of the boots.

It is unfortunate that neither Karen nor her coach or her mom took the time to make sure Karen gets her blades permanently and adequately mounted prior to her departure to the Olympics. Karen’s family have said it was impossible to have access to Avanta before Karen’s competitions.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL DAMAGE CONTROL

Too late, Avanta. Too late.

 

[kittyjake5]

Who is SNG? Why is he/she defending Avanta on FSU. Why come here and plead Avanat's case.
This is a public board not a courtroom. Something is not right here.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

Very disgraceful and unprofessional by the boot company.

Unfortunately we are seeing this kind of conduct take place often with many younger startups and executives. I think it's the social media generation, these people are toxic and their minds are warped. Many of them are total narcissists and don't have any concept for respect, class, or traditional values.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

TBH, if that's indicative of their level professionalism, I'm more inclined to think they effed up with the boots.

Bingo! I would stay away from this company from now on. They obviously don't know what they are doing.

 

[Vagabond]

Unfortunately we are seeing this kind of conduct take place often with many younger startups and executives. I think it's the social media generation, these people are toxic and their minds are warped. Many of them are total narcissists and don't have any concept for respect, class, or traditional values.

Donald Trump is 71. Just sayin'.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

Donald Trump is 71. Just sayin'.

There are some cool people who are 21 too. But I think it's more of a trend with younger people. Anyone who is addicted to that toxic social media lifestyle.

 

[MRani]

Very disgraceful and unprofessional by the boot company.

Unfortunately we are seeing this kind of conduct take place often with many younger startups and executives. I think it's the social media generation, these people are toxic and their minds are warped. Many of them are total narcissists and don't have any concept for respect, class, or traditional values.

The writer of that despicable Instagram post from Avanta, Will Murillo, is a man in his late 40s/early 50s. So definitely not a member of the “social media generation” that you consider to be warped, toxic, narcissistic, and devoid of respect or class. If anything, if he was a member of this terrible social media generation, he would probably know better than to post that kind of stupidity on such a platform.

 

[Anita18]

Who is SNG? Why is he/she defending Avanta on FSU. Why come here and plead Avanat's case.
This is a public board not a courtroom. Something is not right here.

I don’t think it’s unusual to feel defensive over a company or cause you believe in. I know people who work at Uber who feel the same way when Uber gets smeared in the media.

The difference is that such people are usually smart enough NOT to post a rant about a specific customer on a public platform. But if it did happen, a small business is certainly where I’d expect to see it.

 

[overedge]

Word. This is NOT how one conducts business no matter how justified one feels. It read like a petulant child screaming into the wind and saying as many nasty things as one can think of against an unsatisfied customer.

Not to mention borderline actionable by accusing her of deliberate misrepresentation of the quality of the company's products. Avanta could be in for a world of hurt if the Chens decide to lawyer up.

 

[Debbie S]

The writer of that despicable Instagram post from Avanta, Will Murillo, is a man in his late 40s/early 50s.

The article Sylvia linked on p. 3 of this thread notes that Will began working at Klingbeil when he was 14, in 1994. So that would make him 37/38. A borderline Gen X/Millennial.

 

[overedge]

If Avanta didn't want to deal with Karen Chen, it could simply have stopped selling to her.

Or ended the sponsorship agreement, if they were giving her freebies or a discount.

I notice on Avanta 's IG that there are several other elite level skaters wearing their boots (e.g. Hawalek & Baker). I hope those skaters see that terrible anti-Chen IG rant. They might not want to continue to work with a company that publicly trashes its clients and calls them liars.

 

[misskarne]

Very disgraceful and unprofessional by the boot company.

Unfortunately we are seeing this kind of conduct take place often with many younger startups and executives. I think it's the social media generation, these people are toxic and their minds are warped. Many of them are total narcissists and don't have any concept for respect, class, or traditional values.

There are some cool people who are 21 too. But I think it's more of a trend with younger people. Anyone who is addicted to that toxic social media lifestyle.

*sighs* I'll add "skating boots" to the list of things that the older generations accuse the Millennials of ruining, shall I? Next you'll be saying that's why I can't afford a house, because we're too busy wrecking skating boots. Funny thing, I just can't quite remember (probably because I'm a social-media obsessed Millennial)...who was it who destroyed the economy and made it almost impossible to afford houses again...can't quite think...

 

[MRani]

The article Sylvia linked on p. 3 of this thread notes that Will began working at Klingbeil when he was 14, in 1994. So that would make him 37/38. A borderline Gen X/Millennial.

My bad. I read elsewhere that he was around 49-51 and went with it without verifying. Nevertheless, while he’s 10 years younger than I thought he was, he’s still not a member of the generation that actually grew up with the rise of social media.

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

It's not even the age that's important. It's the people who are addicted to social media or do it for their jobs. They tend to be younger but there are always exceptions. People should stay off the damn things or strictly limit their use like anyone would watch their calories while on a diet.

As for Karen, I get her being criticized for skating poorly at the Olympics. I do not get the negative publicity she has received beyond her skating. Hersh and now this so-called company have tainted their own images by acting so unprofessionally, I hope it will be reflected in their reputations and incomes moving forward, since they don't seem to be very good at their jobs either.

 

[Anita18]

It's not even the age that's important. It's the people who are addicted to social media or do it for their jobs. They tend to be younger but there are always exceptions. People should stay off the damn things or strictly limit their use like anyone would watch their calories while on a diet.

Um, the people who do social media for their jobs, and are good at it, would know not to post anything like what Avanta Boot Labs did. Their careers would depend on it!

Some people are (or would be) just bad at social media no matter how much or little they're on it. If I could characterize them, I'd say they're reactionary and defensive. It has zero to do with age or how much they use it.

My hubs "Alf" is one of those people. He has a reactionary way of opining in person (where it's supposed to be easier to communicate) and has trouble making friends because of it. (I have a lot of patience, and he treats me like a so his badly-worded reactionary opinions don't bother me very much.) At least he has the intelligence NOT to have a social media presence, because he would be awful at it. Everyone would hate him and he would spend his days hating them right back.

Whereas I've been on social media since the early days, spend a lot of time on it now, and I've gotten quite a lot of positive results from it, personally AND professionally. It's all about how you use it and what you use it for.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

The hole keeps getting bigger! And Avanta is the one doing all the digging! Bankruptcy it is!

I've been LMAO since I first read that sock puppet's posts. First on Twitter, now here!

I agree, I already talked with the owner and it's in the process of being removed.

But you ARE the owner.

I totally agree that this situation could have been handled differently, I was not the one who posted it. I am working with them and I can only offer my suggestions. We did stand behind Karen for the past two years, but the #bootproblems and lies (using a third party to modify Avanta product) could only go so far. If she mentioned that her boot problem was an issue after using the third party it would be a different story, right?

You 'totally agree' my Aunt Fannie.

Tsk tsk. How incredibly unprofessional. First you personally attack Karen on Instagram, then you play sock puppet on Twitter and now you're here doing the same. Personally attacking Karen AGAIN. Smh.

Like I said previously, I've talked with the owners and the post will be removed. Further actions will be done privately.

But first you had to come on here, a grown man, attacking a teenager AGAIN, calling her a LIAR.

SHAME ON YOU! I hope every single professional skater who uses your equipment has seen how you viciously turned on one of their own. And then I hope they leave you in droves. I hope USFS is made aware of it too and bans you from going anywhere near their venues.

Girl BYE!

 

[Spun Silver]

The calls for Avanta to go out of business seem excessive to me. The irony is that Karen needs Avanta. In an article I can't locate right now (but just read last night) Karen described Avanta as the solution to the boot struggles with which we are all so familiar.

It sounds like Murillo is a true master craftsman who has helped a lot of elite skaters including Karen. As a not so masterly craftsperson myself I have a ton of respect for people who make amazing things with their hands and specialized equipment. They are unique and not replaceable. I also know what it's like to run a tiny organization and live much of your life in a state of frayed nerves. I also know that some people should never be given a megaphone because they just don't have a sense of what you can and can't say in public. Not that I would want Murillo to talk to Karen like that in private either but the print magnified it so much.

So I would love to see a mediated solution that allows Karen to go on getting the boots that fit her best and the tiny custom boot studio to stay in business. Maybe a joint Instagram post in which Avanta apologizes for misunderstanding and speaking harshly of Karen and Karen clarifies that her boot problems are in no way Avanta's fault -- assuming that is the case... from what I read the problems are due to her flat feet and she went through all the boot companies without success before finding this one. Happy ending.


(Totally OT: Why did the little dog stop running? )

 

[misskarne]

(Totally OT: Why did the little dog stop running? )

The little dog is still running on my screen?

 

[Anita18]

The calls for Avanta to go out of business seem excessive to me. The irony is that Karen needs Avanta. In an article I can't locate right now (but just read last night) Karen described Avanta as the solution to the boot struggles with which we are all so familiar.

It sounds like Murillo is a true master craftsman who has helped a lot of elite skaters including Karen. As a not so masterly craftsperson myself I have a ton of respect for people who make amazing things with their hands and specialized equipment. They are unique and not replaceable. I also know what it's like to run a tiny organization and live much of your life in a state of frayed nerves. I also know that some people should never be given a megaphone because they just don't have a sense of what you can and can't say in public. Not that I would want Murillo to talk to Karen like that in private either but the print magnified it so much.

So I would love to see a mediated solution that allows Karen to go on getting the boots that fit her best and the tiny custom boot studio to stay in business. Maybe a joint Instagram post in which Avanta apologizes for misunderstanding and speaking harshly of Karen and Karen clarifies that her boot problems are in no way Avanta's fault -- assuming that is the case... from what I read the problems are due to her flat feet and she went through all the boot companies without success before finding this one. Happy ending.


(Totally OT: Why did the little dog stop running? )

If I were brought in (and I was in charge of social media for several organizations), that's exactly what I'd do. Make amends privately, talk about the mea culpa publicly.

But really, the FIRST thing I'd do is change all the social media passwords and not let Will have them, nor SNG. Get them back into the shop and let them do what they're good at - work on skates! Many times, as you said, craftsfolk are not good at being calm under criticism about their work. It's why they're so good at it.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Equipment issues can be a nightmare, often happening at the wrong place at the wrong time.

Perhaps the most infamous example of problem equipment was when Barbara Underhill's skates failed her on the Olympic stage during the pairs' short program in Sarejevo. She fell on the required sit spin, knocking over her partner, Paul Martini, at the same time.

Several weeks later, Barb returned to her old boots (with new blades), and took the world title.