What rule changes would you like to see for the next quad?

[chapis]

My impossible dream is that judges apply correctly PCS and GOE. If a unknown team do better twizzles or lifts than the top 5 teams, give them the damn points!!!!!!!!!!!

Second: it does not exist the perfect skater/skaters, stop the perfect scores, that is unrreal!!!!

 

[LaineRine]

Every skater cannot do the Lutz, for example. Not everyone can do the 3flip. Some are able to do only toe loops and salchows, particularly when it comes to jump combinations. So I am OK with skaters doing the jumps they Can do. You may have thought about the death spiral being defined in pairs skating. Most pairs can do at least 3 out of 4, so it is not a problem there, but for singles I prefer not to put those limits on jumps. Limiting the spins limits the musical expression, so I wouldn't limit those either. Combination spins require a lot of skill, and there are levels. What's the point if you have just one level of spin? The short programs in the past had 8 (I think) required elements but they never put limits on what Type of a jump or spin a skater should do, with the exception of the double axel, which was a requirement. If the lady did a 3A, she did not have to do the 2A, as per my understanding. In the dark ages the ladies were allowed to do only a double as a solo jump in the SP. One jump combination was a requirement and most used to do a 3-2. I am glad that the sport has progressed. However, in the past the SP used to be do or die, and I liked that. With the IJS skaters that place low in the SP can still win with a strong LP, and I do like that part of it. Nobody is out of it until everyone has skated the LP. JMO.

I am reaching back into history here but the requirements for the ladies during the 1987-1988 Olympic season I believe included a camel-change-camel spin, flying camel with a change of position into sit spin, 2flip and a required loop jump in the combination. Skaters who can't do a triple of the prescribed jump would have to do a double and take the corresponding loss of points on their base value.

Of course the freeskate should be different but judging skaters on individual and prescribed elements IMO is appropriate in the short program. I don't think combination spins should be eliminated but there should be a choreographic spin similar to the choreographic step judged on GOE only.

 

[giselle23]

I think they should do away with the bonus altogether. I don't even think front-loading was that big of a problem in the long program. I know that Michelle used to do her solo lutz late in her program and Tara at Nagano did her triple-half loof-triple near the end. I remember also Midori Ito doing a 3-3 near the end of her famous NHK program in 1989. The problem I recall was actually in the short program where a skater would do all of his jumps in the first minute or so.
But it really doesn't make sense to give a bonus in the short program if the jumps aren't more difficult after a minute and fifteen seconds or whenever the bonus kicks in. Make balanced distribution of elements part of the Composition score. That would actually be a more objective measure of that score than the current "meaningful purpose" or whatever vague descriptions are attached to it now.

 

[Willin]

@giselle23 While I hate backloading, frontloading is the same issue. I agree it was a bigger issue with the SP, but it still should be looked at for the FS because many skaters did frontload.

Perhaps there should be a rule along the lines of "No more than two jumping passes in a row." It might make things harder for choreographers, but I think it would promote more balance and even distribution of elements.

 

[skateboy]

This is how Zygotova's marks climbed from low 8s in the beginning of the season to mid 9s last week, without any marked improvement in actual skating.

I really hope your misspelling of Zagitova was an honest mistake and not on purpose.

 

[Rock2]

My short list for now are only these three:

1. Limit the number of times you can use a specific feature to get levels or GOE bullets e.g. hands over head, grabbing foot. Encourage a variety in skating skills for the sake of both technical and artistic development.
2. Recalibrate tech scores. First off, no downgrading of jump, throw and twist base scores. Following from comments made by Duhamel on TSL, bring quad twist and throws up in value to make them worth more than medium level lifts that junior teams can do. Also, make all throw jump values consistent with singles jump values.
3. Invent and specify level 5 and 6 dance levels. Too much crowding in level 4s such that subjective PCS determines the winner almost always. Let's get more separation and take the sport to the next level.

Beyond that, take current rules on GoE and PCS and make sure they are clear and consistently applied to the rule book. Focus almost all your efforts there.

 

[starrynight]

Invent and specify level 5 and 6 dance levels. Too much crowding in level 4s such that subjective PCS determines the winner almost always. Let's get more separation and take the sport to the next level.

Very good point. However I expect going forward the -5 to +5 GOE will be used to seperate out the ice dance TES.

 

[Rock2]

Very good point. However I expect going forward the -5 to +5 GOE will be used to seperate out the ice dance TES.

Possibly. But levels tend to have more specificity so I like using levels instead of subjective BS marking in GoE right now (#bitter). Example, Shibs were doing many more rotations in the twizzles because they can. I doubt everyone can. Let's create a level for that and make sure top levels can only go to those who can rotate on both feet and in both directions with difficulty...or something like that. I think there's room to get to next level in those ways in most elements.

 

[attyfan]

Three main ones -- First (and most important), the ISU needs to do some serious research if specific moves are responsible for an undue amount of injury and if so, those moves need to be banned. They did this with the backflip; if, in fact, the loop jump (for example) is more damaging to the hips than other jumps, it should be banned too. Second, the SP needs to be something other than what it is now (i.e., a short version of the FS). Maybe, use the SP for perfect programs even if technically inferior and the FS is the place for trying more difficult moves. Third, the ISU needs to resolve conflicts in the rules. I don't know if rewarding skaters for doing all jumps in the second half is a good idea or not, but I do believe that either the ISU needs to change this rule or it needs to specify how it plays out with the requirement of well balanced programs.

 

[screech]

I also think there needs to be an actual use for the 'bonus' part of 'bonus/deduction' (though I just saw 'bonus' isn't on the Olympics protocols). As people have said in the past years, it could be a good idea if a +1 bonus was given to skaters who do at least one of each jump type

 

[shady82]

It is very naive for people to ask for 'fairly judging PCS' as a necessary change criterion. Is it not obvious that politics is at least 30% responsible for the second-mark scores? No judging system will get rid of this issue.

To some extent the new system came into place due to the SLC scandal, and many people argue that B/S are sure to whip S/P's ass at the 2002 Olympics under IJS because B/S have much more difficult elements and transmissions. However, don't overlook the fact that judges can keep the two teams close by showering S/P with high GOEs and giving them higher PCS. After all, S/P did get high average presentation scores in the short.

 

[judgejudy27]

Regarding Lucinda Ruh's comments I dont think what she was basically saying was wrong, but she chose a horrible way to say it if that makes sense. If she felt Osmond should have won, she should have said she deserved to win for her bigger jumps and the maturity of her skating, some which comes with age and experience. She should not have said Zagitova is just too young to win, she should have pointed out her PCS were too high for the basic quality of her skating and programs, which many would have concurred with. And implying even 18 year old Medvedeva who is a 2 time World Champion is too young is just comical, even for those who want to argue 15 years olds shouldnt be competing at the Games in the sport. Basically she could have said the same thing but in a much different way, and should not have just flat out said they should reward someone for being older. She could have even said really young skaters are sometimes being overrewarded and not as scrutinized as much as older skaters, that would be fair, but not flat out saying people are too young.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Every skater cannot do the Lutz, for example. Not everyone can do the 3flip. Some are able to do only toe loops and salchows, particularly when it comes to jump combinations. So I am OK with skaters doing the jumps they Can do. You may have thought about the death spiral being defined in pairs skating. Most pairs can do at least 3 out of 4, so it is not a problem there, but for singles I prefer not to put those limits on jumps. Limiting the spins limits the musical expression, so I wouldn't limit those either. Combination spins require a lot of skill, and there are levels. What's the point if you have just one level of spin? The short programs in the past had 8 (I think) required elements but they never put limits on what Type of a jump or spin a skater should do, with the exception of the double axel, which was a requirement. If the lady did a 3A, she did not have to do the 2A, as per my understanding. In the dark ages the ladies were allowed to do only a double as a solo jump in the SP. One jump combination was a requirement and most used to do a 3-2. I am glad that the sport has progressed. However, in the past the SP used to be do or die, and I liked that. With the IJS skaters that place low in the SP can still win with a strong LP, and I do like that part of it. Nobody is out of it until everyone has skated the LP. JMO.

If they can't do a Lutz or a flip or something else they will work on it. For a men's SP, for example, I would be okay with this:

*2A or 3A
*some iteration of at least 2F+2Lo (up to 3F+3Lo)
* A solo jump of your choice with clearly preceding steps
*A spin with basic requirements
*Step sequence with explicitly specific steps and turns/combinations of turns

Single jumps get zero points and in a combination the entire element is invalidated. For the majority men, this should be relatively easy requirements.

Obviously at the top this would be a SP with 3A, 3F+3Lo, and a quad.

And these requirements would change every season. It would be an emphasis on pure technique and execution of elements, clean and sure edges with flow, etc., and would have the intention of rewarding those skaters who possess these qualities. Particularly in the step sequence, you would really get to see who is up to snuff and who is not.

I don't see it as boring. Of course, for me, elimination of compulsories in gymnastics was outrageous and I'm someone who enjoyed watching them and want them back.

 

[Vash01]

If they can't do a Lutz or a flip or something else they will work on it. For a men's SP, for example, I would be okay with this:

*2A or 3A
*some iteration of at least 2F+2Lo (up to 3F+3Lo)
* A solo jump of your choice with clearly preceding steps
*A spin with basic requirements
*Step sequence with explicitly specific steps and turns/combinations of turns

Single jumps get zero points and in a combination the entire element is invalidated. For the majority men, this should be relatively easy requirements.

Obviously at the top this would be a SP with 3A, 3F+3Lo, and a quad.

And these requirements would change every season. It would be an emphasis on pure technique and execution of elements, clean and sure edges with flow, etc., and would have the intention of rewarding those skaters who possess these qualities. Particularly in the step sequence, you would really get to see who is up to snuff and who is not.

I don't see it as boring. Of course, for me, elimination of compulsories in gymnastics was outrageous and I'm someone who enjoyed watching them and want them back.

Double jumps in mens competitions? How many decades does that put the sport behind? Anybody can do clean double jumps. These are not the 1970s (I don't want to be rude but I hate seeing a sport regress).

 

[ballettmaus]

5. Mandatory reductions in PCS for major mistakes, especially falls. You are not demonstrating 9.5 worthy skating skills on your butt. Nobody, and I mean nobody should be getting above 90 with a fall.

Is there a definite definition of skating skills? I always assumed that skating skills refers to the basic quality of someone's skating skills, like depth of edges, quality of stroking, command/control of steps/edges etc. In that case, a fall would not necessarily be connected to a skater's skating skill. It can be but doesn't have to be.
But a fall definitely needs to be reflected in the Performance mark as a fall disrupts the performance.

 

[Vash01]

Is there a definite definition of skating skills? I always assumed that skating skills refers to the basic quality of someone's skating skills, like depth of edges, quality of stroking, command/control of steps/edges etc. In that case, a fall would not necessarily be connected to a skater's skating skill. It can be but doesn't have to be.
But a fall definitely needs to be reflected in the Performance mark as a fall disrupts the performance.

ITA. If someone like Gordeeva or Chan falls, it doesn't mean her/his skating skills are poor. A fall should be penalized but that cannot be a part of skating skills. It is a part of performance/execution.

 

[umronnie]

Not a fan of expanding GoE to +/-5. Giving the judges MORE numbers to manipulate is not a good thing, imho.

I don't think bad PCS jusding is necessarily a result of politiks. I think it is more a result of confirmation bias and the damned corridor. Maybe a way around this would be not splitting the jugding panel for GoE and PCS but splitting them for SS/TR, which are more technical issues and address the minute details, and PE/CH/IN, which are artistic and address the program as a whole.

Since the PCS have been slowly climbing through the years the top skaters are now bunched together between 8.5-9.5 on every PCS criteria, so the sifference amounts to 10 points for men's FP (the value of one quad). Since I doubt the marks will be coming down, PCS need to be recalibrated. I think changing the factoring of the PCS in accordance with the current values of TES for top skaters is necessary. Change men's factoring from 1.0/2.0 to 1.2/2.4 - up to 60.0 and 120.0 rspoectively, which is compliant with top TES. Change the ladies' and pairs' to 1.0/2.0 - up to 50.0 and 100.00, giving FP PCS a slight advantage over TES.

Also the PCS and GoE factoring in ice dance need to change. Results in dance are decided by fractions of points.

 

[briancoogaert]

Double jumps in mens competitions? How many decades does that put the sport behind? Anybody can do clean double jumps. These are not the 1970s (I don't want to be rude but I hate seeing a sport regress).

As you said before, there is a problem with imposing a specific triple jump in the SP since some skaters cannot do a 3Lz or 3F.
But well, if you cannot do a 3Lz or 3F in the SP (especially in Men), how many decades does that put the sport behind ?

 

[kittysk8ts]

Dont try to tie PCS to TES. Grade each component of PCS separately

This is what is killing IJS, in my personal opinion. In the beginning of IJS, I think this wasn't a problem, but somewhere along the way it was decided that the better the TES then the better the PCS. This correlation does not appear anywhere in the rules, as far as I know......please correct me if I am wrong. So, how did this happen? An ISU judge's meeting?

 

[Vash01]

This is what is killing IJS, in my personal opinion. In the beginning of IJS, I think this wasn't a problem, but somewhere along the way it was decided that the better the TES then the better the PCS. This correlation does not appear anywhere in the rules, as far as I know......please correct me if I am wrong. So, how did this happen? An ISU judge's meeting?

I agree. The 6.0, despite all its flaws, was good about separating the technical and artistic or presentation marks. The expectation was that the IJS would make the distinction clearer, more specific, by dividing the PCS into five categories and defining each. The judges seem to get away from it more and more. So why even bother having PCS? Just crown the skater with the highest TES! I am saying this out of frustration. It is not like I want this to happen. Removing artistry from FS would mean the death of my favorite sport. Right now it seems to be dying a slow death.

 

[MAXSwagg]

Double jumps in mens competitions? How many decades does that put the sport behind? Anybody can do clean double jumps. These are not the 1970s (I don't want to be rude but I hate seeing a sport regress).

If they want six quads they can do it in the FS. And yes, if a senior man cannot do a 3F, that says more about the skill of the skater and not the requirements...

 

[antmanb]

Is this the thread where we come in to whine about the parts of the scoring system that favours the skaters we don't like?

 

[Rock2]

Three main ones -- First (and most important), the ISU needs to do some serious research if specific moves are responsible for an undue amount of injury and if so, those moves need to be banned. They did this with the backflip; if, in fact, the loop jump (for example) is more damaging to the hips than other jumps, it should be banned too. Second, the SP needs to be something other than what it is now (i.e., a short version of the FS). Maybe, use the SP for perfect programs even if technically inferior and the FS is the place for trying more difficult moves. Third, the ISU needs to resolve conflicts in the rules. I don't know if rewarding skaters for doing all jumps in the second half is a good idea or not, but I do believe that either the ISU needs to change this rule or it needs to specify how it plays out with the requirement of well balanced programs.

Some intresting thinking here.

The back-half jump issues should be resolved through clearer definition of Choreo/Composition mark which has more to do with the structure of the program than the moves themselves. Back half loading is supposed to be captured here. The problem may be clarity but in my view as I pointed out we have a problem with the application of the current rules. Bigger fish to fry.

How does a skater get 9.5 for SS when they skate with average speed, need many crossovers to generate speed, cannot maintain speed once generated, can only generate power off of one of their feet, have extremely shallow edges and are not equally adept on both feet with the entire skating vocabulary of edges and turns....? We're seeing 9s when it's hard to argue 7. For Zag specifically, not only do you have back half loading but she never comes within 6 feet of any of the boards. OK I lied, she does 3 times: twice as part of step/choreo seq requirements and one other time. The last min or two are all in the middle of the rink. Under IJS that's supposed to be a big flag for CH and SS problems. Ignored. Again, clarity, please...and enforce the marking.

So let's get clear on PCS rules and enforce the ones we have. If we start micromanaging every issue as a one-off with specific rules and specifications the IJS rulebook will eventually read like the tax code. Let's not go down that path.

Injuries is a tough one. Banning moves to prevent injuries I think has a low chance of happening. Doing your body in is a by-product of elite athletics and hard core training and a million reps over a period of time. Baseball pitchers can't raise their arms above their head when they retire. Football players can hardly walk etc. Not saying it's right...but it's hart to prevent.

You can tackle the big things like concussions etc that have more serious effects but that's a short list. A loop jump is difficult for example because you have to examine technique and impact over a longer term..and be 100% sure what is causing the pain or hip replacements as skaters work on so many things.
The loop technique for Kwan and Lipinski put great strain on the hip. Zag's technique isn't as hard on the hip so her chances of maintaining her health over longer term is higher. She has great timing and natural spring. So complicated and these issues are so time and resource-consuming to study. ISU doesn't have the money. Athletes and their teams/doctors will prob have to manage their own body for the most part.

 

[brennele]

Here is what I would propose and I mentioned it in another thread - which unfortunately got derailed into unrelated discussion. I propose the following: limit the number of quads to one per program i.e. one for the SP and one for the FS. Obviously skaters could do as many as they wish but they only get credit for one per program. Any others done would count as triples. Such a rule would achieve the would achieve the following:

1. Reward those men who can do a quad and do it right
2. Protect skaters from injuring their bodies in "quad madness" where they try to outdo one another
3. Open the playing field to more men not just those born with the right body type
4. Make the men's event more enjoyable to watch. Not everyone prefers a jumping bean contest

I would also do away with the rule that attempting a quad counts the same number of points as a perfectly executed triple - assuming that the comment which Tara made to this effect is true. What nonsense is such a rule. Why should anybody bother to perfect a triple - they need only attempt a quad and if they fall, no big deal. They get all the points for a triple. That is ridiculous. People could just go out there making numerous quad attempts and get credit as though they skated perfect triples. Is that crazy or what?. If that rule is true, as Tara, said, it needs to go. You should get credit if you land it without putting a hand on the ice not if you simply attempt it

 

[ToFarAwayTimes]

Injuries is a tough one. Banning moves to prevent injuries I think has a low chance of happening. Doing your body in is a by-product of elite athletics and hard core training and a million reps over a period of time. Baseball pitchers can't raise their arms above their head when they retire. Football players can hardly walk etc. Not saying it's right...but it's hart to prevent.

I think you need to change the scoring system to reward jumps less, reward strong skating and presentation more. Younger skaters will have no chance to win, so they and their coaches will preserve their body and take a long-term view of their development process.

Increased technical difficulty should be the mark that separates two advanced skaters comparable to each other. One ups the ante and wins. Will the other answer back? It should not be the case of junior skaters, underdeveloped with mediocre basics and poor presentation outjumping everyone else and destroying their body at a very early age in the process.

This shouldn't be figure jumping.

 

[misskarne]

Here is what I would propose and I mentioned it in another thread - which unfortunately got derailed into unrelated discussion. I propose the following: limit the number of quads to one per program i.e. one for the SP and one for the FS. Obviously skaters could do as many as they wish but they only get credit for one per program. Any others done would count as triples. Such a rule would achieve the would achieve the following:

1. Reward those men who can do a quad and do it right

Well, actually, it wouldn't. It would punish them by restricting what they do well. It would be like saying to Jason, "You can only do one spin per program". It would also create a Zayak nightmare.

If you want to reward those who do them well, we're back to punishing falls and underrotations/downgrades more harshly.

 

[brennele]

misskarne,
Seems to me we have a Zayak nightmare now where people are trying to push more and more quads into the program so as to garner points without any regard to artistic skating skills.......or even if they can pull them off. Theoretically, one could do 6 quads and fall on every single one of them plus just glide in between with no thought to any artistic merit yet come out ahead on a highly artistic program with say 4 triples. The whole point of the Zayak rule was not to create jumping beans who could do little else. Now we are encouraging quads to the extent that one does not even have to be able to do them - simply attempt them and garner up points. This whole "I can do more quads than you" mentality is not the way to go. I say we already have a Zayak nightmare as the men are turning the whole FS into who can pull off the most quads deal. Worse, only certain men can even participate. It requires a certain body type over which basically one has no control - it is genetically driven. If the men want to outdo one another with quads so be it - hold a dedicated contest for them to do just that and crown the winner the "quad king" - but don't call it figure skating and don't ruin the men's free skate.

 

[Rock2]

I think you need to change the scoring system to reward jumps less, reward strong skating and presentation more. Younger skaters will have no chance to win, so they and their coaches will preserve their body and take a long-term view of their development process.

Increased technical difficulty should be the mark that separates two advanced skaters comparable to each other. One ups the ante and wins. Will the other answer back? It should not be the case of junior skaters, underdeveloped with mediocre basics and poor presentation outjumping everyone else and destroying their body at a very early age in the process.

This shouldn't be figure jumping.

Lots to unpack here. I'll stick to a few things.

First is the age old debate about athleticism vs artistry and in what proportions. I celebrate the artistry of skating and it should always be a part of it...but view skating primarily as a sport. As such, the advancements and growth should be driven by technical. Or I say take it out of the Olympics.

I'm in favor of limiting the most dangerous things and being as responsible as we can. But to me that's a short list of things. If you look at diving and gymnastics, athletes are doing more things at a very young age that endanger their bodies wayyyyy more than skating ever can. The important thing is great coaching and technical training and not being irresponsible with your body. Duhamel had a great comment. Apparently ISU wants to limit quad values because 'they are dangerous' and want to help skaters be safe. She pointed out she was doing throw quads for 4 years and never got injured...even at an older age when you are quite vulnerable as well. She didn't try 4Tw because she and Eric knew their chances of doing it were extremely low and they were likely to get injured. So they were smart about it. That's how I see things.

I will absolutely never be in favor of making PCS a higher proportion of the scoring until ISU puts in place measures to ensure scoring reflects what's happening on the ice. Right now, nowhere close. Marked fairly reasonably for lower tiered athletes but for contenders at any level all PCS scores are fairly closely tied to TES proficiency and jump consistency. We need a serious reboot here.

 

[brennele]

Miss Karne, I have been reflecting on what you said and I do believe you misinterpreted what I wrote. I mean literally one quad. I do not mean choose one quad style and then do as many of them as the person wants. Now, I get what you mean by the Zayak nightmare. It did not make sense to me as I read your comments. You were thinking I meant that the skaters should chose one quad style. No, I am saying they get points for only one quad per FS and one quad per SP. If they do their quad in combo with the triple they get more points then if they do it alone but still one quad.

The pool of people who can even do quads is severely limited by a certain body type. If you have that body type and you can competently pull off a quad - fine. I am not opposed to doing so and being rewarded in terms of points but there is just so far one should be able to go with this thing. What bothers me is the tendency for jumping to overshadow everything else as people cheer and line up to see who is the "quad king" i.e. the one who can do 5 quads in 6 minutes while someone else can only do 4 quads in 6 minutes... Here we have this one who is going to do 6 of them in the same time frame and next year, by golly, he is training to do 7 of them whereupon HE will be defending his title as the quad king. When we start to get into this sort of mindset we are leaving the realm of figure skating and entering into such arenas as speed skating - sports which are legitimate pursuits in their own right. If the men wish to compete with one another on who can jump the most times in xyz period of time and then do so in a very macho manner, I personally have no problem with it. Boys will be boys; men will be men and who am I to say what they should and should not do. We could create a new event called "skate jumping" where the man who can land the most number of quads in say 10 minutes wins. We have ski jumping, no? Heck, I like that event. I've watched it many times. I am sure skate jumping will be a very popular event, also. They could absolutely have music if they so wished although I don't see Swan Lake as the preferred choice for this type of performance. I think Led Zepplin or Jimmie Hendrix might be a better choice.

Here is the best part. It need not be an all or nothing choice. One can compete in the traditional men's FS events and one could compete in "skate jumping," if he so chooses. No need to make a choice. Skate jumping could be an optional event with its own FS gold medal although I personally would open it up only to those men who are also competing in the more traditional FS events. Of course, one problem I DO envision is the following. Are we not going to soon have the women whining and complaining that it is all unfair and sexist Soon we will hear that THEY should be allowed to compete in skate jumping, as well. After all, since we are going to have women become marine infantry personnel, should they not also skate jump. I am afraid so. We'd have to let them compete such an event lest the ISU be labeled as - gasp - sexist. Of course we don't have too many women doing quads these days and I don't know interesting it would be to have a "jump skating" event where the women did triples. We'd need lots of coffee to stay awake, no? Could be a logistics problem.

 

[brennele]

Miss Karne, I have been reflecting on what you said and I do believe you misinterpreted what I wrote. I mean literally one quad. I do not mean choose one quad style and then do as many of them as the person wants. Now, I get what you mean by the Zayak nightmare. It did not make sense to me as I read your comments. You were thinking I meant that the skaters should chose one quad style. No, I am saying they get points for only one quad per FS and one quad per SP. If they do their quad in combo with the triple they get more points then if they do it alone but still one quad.

The pool of people who can even do quads is severely limited by a certain body type. If you have that body type and you can competently pull off a quad - fine. I am not opposed to doing so and being rewarded in terms of points but there is just so far one should be able to go with this thing. What bothers me is the tendency for jumping to overshadow everything else as people cheer and line up to see who is the "quad king" i.e. the one who can do 5 quads in 6 minutes while someone else can only do 4 quads in 6 minutes... Here we have this one who is going to do 6 of them in the same time frame and next year, by golly, he is training to do 7 of them whereupon HE will be defending his title as the quad king. When we start to get into this sort of mindset we are leaving the realm of figure skating and entering into such arenas as speed skating - sports which are legitimate pursuits in their own right. If the men wish to compete with one another on who can jump the most times in xyz period of time and then do so in a very macho manner, I personally have no problem with it. Boys will be boys; men will be men and who am I to say what they should and should not do. We could create a new event called "skate jumping" where the man who can land the most number of quads in say 10 minutes wins. We have ski jumping, no? Heck, I like that event. I've watched it many times. I am sure skate jumping will be a very popular event, also. They could absolutely have music if they so wished although I don't see Swan Lake as the preferred choice for this type of performance. I think Led Zepplin or Jimmie Hendrix might be a better choice.

Here is the best part. It need not be an all or nothing choice. One can compete in the traditional men's FS events and one could compete in "skate jumping," if he so chooses. No need to make a choice. Skate jumping could be an optional event with its own FS gold medal although I personally would open it up only to those men who are also competing in the more traditional FS events. Of course, one problem I DO envision is the following. Are we not going to soon have the women whining and complaining that it is all unfair and sexist Soon we will hear that THEY should be allowed to compete in skate jumping, as well. After all, since we are going to have women become marine infantry personnel, should they not also be permitted to skate jump. I am afraid so. We'd have to let them compete such an event lest the ISU be labeled as - gasp - sexist. Of course we don't have too many women doing quads these days and I don't know interesting it would be to have a "jump skating" event where the women all did triples. We'd need lots of coffee to stay awake, no? Could be a logistics problem.