Papadakis/Cizeron #5 - We're In Love With The Shape Of You

Status
Not open for further replies.
Were any of you watching that Olympics when the whole thing went down? It was very ugly. I know I stopped watching figure skating for quite a few years and then Chan and V/M brought me slowly back in. Figure skating really dropped in ratings. Just let the skaters skate. I think they want that too.

Yes I watched that Olympics and followed that scandal though I didn't follow skating at the time. I have no sympathy for whatever negativity gets thrown towards Gailhaguet. He should banned from the sport, and from what I have seen on the internet a lot of French skating fans desperately want that too. I just think it's gross to direct that anger and bitterness towards P/C, who are only guilty of being French and good enough to win gold medals.
 
Last edited:
It frustrates me that they lose the SD to V&M nearly every time.
What I see this as is them needing to work more on other styles. The SD and it's rotating styles has always been their shortfall, yet when they get to stick to lyrical, they excel. Though I'm sure they already do, they IMO need to focus more on adapting to different styles.

I've only been in the V/M thread the last few days, but some of the comments there kind of astounded me. Though I've also only been in here the last few days, I have to completely commend the P/C fans for how generally classy you all have been!
 
What I see this as is them needing to work more on other styles. The SD and it's rotating styles has always been their shortfall, yet when they get to stick to lyrical, they excel. Though I'm sure they already do, they IMO need to focus more on adapting to different styles.

Why? You wouldn't ask a professional classical ballet dancer to become a professional hip hop dancer either, would you? Or an impressionist painter to become a surrealist.
I'm pretty sure that a classical dancer can dance hip hop or jazz and that an impressionist painter could paint you a surrealistic picture but classical dancer and impressionist painter chose the style because it is the style they excell in because it speaks to them the most and they feel it the most. Just like G&G excell in their lyrical style and that speaks to them the most and they feel it the most.
Other skaters usually take longer to find their preferred style, they found it very early but everyone has their strength and weaknesses and no one excells at everything or can do everything equally well. So it makes no sense to require a skater to change their free dance style when this is so obviously the style that they excell in.

I can, however, get behind the argument that they need to work on other styles to get better in the SD. They need to find a way to become more comfortable with the SD rhythms, to be able to translate the SD music into movement and onto the ice the same way that they do it in the FD. But they don't need to change their FD style for that, they can work on that off the ice.
 
But the thing is that their SDs are always great. Before they had issues with technical restrictions sometimes but they worked a lot on it. Their rumba pattern this year was THE BEST.
It's just too bad they couldn't perform this latin SD to the best of their abilities on Monday, especially after they reworked their side by side sequence, which is now worthy of a level 4 +3.
I'll say though that they need to improve their "staccato" moves, where VM excel.
 
Last edited:
I truly enjoy both teams, and I was looking forward to a quality battle where each team is judged fairly. But at GPF, when Christine Hurth gave VM's SD lift +1 GOE, especially when every other judge gave it a +3, that's when things went south for me real fast. Suddenly it looked like judging was back to game playing, and that tarnishes everyone. PC don't need help like that in order to win, and if Didier was behind it, that's a total shame.

You could go through the protocols and find instances where every top skater got a questionable GOE from judges of various countries, and it didn't just suddenly start at the GPF SD. It tarnishes the judges and the bureaucrats, it doesn't tarnish the skaters. It's just the skaters are easier, more accessible targets.

I don't have a problem with the way you feel, as long as you're not telling Gabriella on her Instagram that she should be ashamed of her scores.
 
Last edited:
I can, however, get behind the argument that they need to work on other styles to get better in the SD. They need to find a way to become more comfortable with the SD rhythms, to be able to translate the SD music into movement and onto the ice the same way that they do it in the FD. But they don't need to change their FD style for that, they can work on that off the ice.
I never mentioned their need to change the FD style (though I kind of wish they'd show more versatility) - my comment was meant in regards to the SD, where they do not excel, and need to work more with those other styles (meaning SD rhythms).
 
Ugggggg so just likely other fav Nathan, they won the free skate but not enough to recover from the SP...

May I just say Ugggg.

I like Tessa but for some reason I just DO NOT like Moir.... seems smug, seems arrogant.

I love P&C so much

See I feel the opposite, Scott seems genuine to me and she seems a little fake sometimes

Really? hmmm.. Ive never felt an ounce of arrogance from her...

To me Moir is pretending to be something he isn't... dont know how and I can't explain why its just the feeling I get from him....

I also think he seems kinda show-offy. But Ill stop there not to get too negative.

I just love P&C.... Well, Ill be rooting for them at Worlds...

What a classy bunch.
 
You could go through the protocols and find instances where every top skater got a questionable GOE from judges of various countries, and it didn't just suddenly start at the GPF SD. It tarnishes the judges and the bureaucrats, it doesn't tarnish the skaters. It's just the skaters are easier, more accessible targets.

I don't have a problem with the way you feel, as long as you're not telling Gabriella on her Instagram that she should be ashamed of her scores.

As Gabby has no control over the scores she receives, I’m definitely not one of those people.
 
Johnny said something that stuck with me about V/M and P/C: He felt both were are at the top of their game and each offered something different: V/M was like seeing the greatest musical on Broadway (he mentioned Hamilton) while P/C was like seeing the greatest ballet company performing. And of course we all would have our individual preferences. He, as I, preferred P/C and that is not to take anything away from V/M. I was glad to see P/C had the higher score in the long and were it not for that unfortunate malfunction they would probably be wearing gold now. I do think V/M had the better short but the distraction w/the costume hurt P/C.

My fear for P/C if they won they would find the temptation to leave powerful. I hated to see Michelle Kwan lose the gold but that did mean that we would get to see her brilliance for four more years. I feel the same way about P/C and even more so. There just isn't anyone like them (particularly him.) They are so unique and hopefully the next Olympics will be luckier for them. And I do think there was respect from the American commentators for both teams but I do think there was strong, strong support for P/C. Scott said this was not like comparing apples to apples because the two teams are so different in their approach. I wish we could award two golds.

"Which diamond platinum ring do you like better?" Ben said that during the GPF and it was pretty much how the NBC commentators presented the battle for gold.

I'm confused why so many people think they would have retired at 22/23. I feel like I've missed something. Were there the same fears about V/M in 2010? Is it because they've said they don't watch ice dance as fans? They do seem to love skating/performing though.
 
"Which diamond platinum ring do you like better?" Ben said that during the GPF and it was pretty much how the NBC commentators presented the battle for gold.

I'm confused why so many people think they would have retired at 22/23. I feel like I've missed something. Were there the same fears about V/M in 2010? Is it because they've said they don't watch ice dance as fans? They do seem to love skating/performing though.
There is this habit with single skaters to retire after an Olympic medal, especially in the US. I don't get it because I'm French and skating is a hobby, until it suddenly becomes more serious. Nobody is trained to become a champion and then stop. :ap1:
Tara Lipinski, Oksana Baiul, to name a few retired so soon after OGM.

P/C absolutely love skating. On the French daily tv show based in Pyeongchang, Candeloro told them that they should make the most of their OSM (promotion, talk shows, media etc I guess). IIRC, Gaby said that what they really love is skating and performing. ;) (Translation = leave us alone :lol:)
 
Yes I watched that Olympics and followed that scandal though I didn't follow skating at the time. I have no sympathy for whatever negativity gets thrown towards Gailhaguet. He should banned from the sport, and from what I have seen on the internet a lot of French skating fans desperately want that too. I just think it's gross to direct that anger and bitterness towards P/C, who are only guilty of being French and good enough to win gold medals.

I don’t think they are though. Unfortunately skating seems to always get heated throughout the season. I wish it wasn’t like that which is why I don’t subscribe anymore but it’s not just V/M fans. The judging scandal blew up there but there was a lot of build up to it over several years. Fans used to call it block judging.
 
http://www.europe1.fr/sport/gabriel...ques-de-gailhaguet-on-ne-comprend-pas-3579647

Could someone help me to translate this? I tried it with google but you all know how accurate this is. It seems the DG criticise them for their style? Is that right? How dare he!
And I do understand that the costume designer feels guilty but that Gabriella and Gzillamue tell her it´s not her fault. They´re so cute :)
Overall, I think Gabriella and Guillaume act like real champions here! I Love every single interview with them :)
I've listened to the interview here: http://www.europe1.fr/emissions/europe-1-midi2/europe-midi-200218-3579662 (probably not geo-blocked, at least not in the EU). Around 20'20'' the presenter asks them about Didi's remark. It's interesting to listen to Gabby, even if you don't understand a word French.
The interview with both starts around 17'30''
 
http://www.europe1.fr/sport/gabriel...ques-de-gailhaguet-on-ne-comprend-pas-3579647

Could someone help me to translate this? I tried it with google but you all know how accurate this is. It seems the DG criticise them for their style? Is that right? How dare he!
And I do understand that the costume designer feels guilty but that Gabriella and Gzillamue tell her it´s not her fault. They´re so cute :)
Overall, I think Gabriella and Guillaume act like real champions here! I Love every single interview with them :)

He wasn’t really critizing them as they are now; the actual Parisien article is framed more about their future. He essentially said that V/M’s style was more audience-friendly and that the way they sell their programs is more open. I think he’s reacting to the social media interest in Tessa and Scott and the crowd reaction during the FD. He wants that for P/C in the future.
 
I would say, one disgraceful thing about the media and humanity can be seen by looking up this team on YouTube. Pages of links discussing her nipple slip. You had to be a damn hawk and not at all interested in skating to even see it or look for it. It's so gross that after this event, their little slip up is receiving so much attention and not their unparallelled skating in the media
 
There is this habit with single skaters to retire after an Olympic medal, especially in the US. I don't get it because I'm French and skating is a hobby, until it suddenly becomes more serious. Nobody is trained to become a champion and then stop. :ap1:
Tara Lipinski, Oksana Baiul, to name a few retired so soon after OGM.

P/C absolutely love skating. On the French daily tv show based in Pyeongchang, Candeloro told them that they should make the most of their OSM (promotion, talk shows, media etc I guess). IIRC, Gaby said that what they really love is skating and performing. ;) (Translation = leave us alone :lol:)

Oksana Baiul is not from the USA. :)

I understand what you are trying to say though.
 
It seems the DG criticise them for their style? Is that right? How dare he!
Gailhaguet 101 : Reed between the lines
"Their style" = Dubreuil and Haguenauer
"Be more open to the world" = I want you to change coach and go where I'm going to tell you to go.

Last year already, he wanted them to move away from Montréal. He said training with V/M was a wrong idea.
Now, he wants them to move away from Montréal. He says it's about their style.
That's BS.
He just want to cut them off from their base to get control over their career and uses arguments at hand.


Can someone with knowledge of the French Federation please explain to me how Didier is still around? Presumably he got elected at some point. He seems to cause as many problems for the skaters he's meant to be helping as he does for everyone else.
Because he's elected by a limited base, which are the club presidents. Because the area that gets the most votes is Ile de France (Paris and surroundings) and controlling it is enough to secure an election and that's where he has built his base. Because he has dossiers on many people. Because president of a sport federation is an unpaid time-consuming position that he wants more than any other (an interesting question is where does he get his personal money from ? A while ago, like some other sport federation's presidents, he was getting paid as a teacher by the National Institute for Sport where he wasn't teaching for real but the Cour des Comptes (which verify the use of state money) stopped the common practise). Because he makes sure no athlete is legitimate enough to replace him. No ex-champion is left close to the fed after a year or two of retirment. He keeps them that long for the show but that's it.

He banned Candeloro from entering the french fed box during Nice Worlds.
At the last election, daddy Peizerat died no long before the election. His wife became president of the club of Lyon (the region, named Rhone Alpes, is the other powerhouse region of the fed, quite adverse to Gailhaguet with Lucine, Zazoui ... but smaller than Ile de France). The morning of the election, he found a technicality (she was not yet officially registered as president or something like that) to forbid her to enter the building of the general assembly ; Gwendal said he left her crying at the entrance. Right before the elections, there are always mysterious rumors about the serious opponents, like they are crooks or something bad. He throws promises and threats.

And it's a multi-discipline federation. The clubs are diverse with no shared interest. Making alliances big enough to overthrow him is complicated. Gwendal peaked at 35%.
He asks the eligible french athletes to send supporting letters to the club presidents (he holds their selection in his hands, that's easy)

Everyone, the media, the people, the politics, many athletes would like him to be beaten at the elections.
Everyone is "why is he still here, how come ?"
But figure skating is not a important sport and no journalist will go further than that.

Sport feds are purely independant. They do as they wish.
Their organisation is very old-fashioned. Amateur, unpaid, almost family business. It is not just the figure skating federation that is like that. It's 90% of the french sport federations who have old presidents with 4-5 mandates behind them and habits of making business with friends.
The government has been talking to the CNOSF (french olympic committee) about reforming the sport federations for 20 years. About getting pro, getting paid positions to attract several / younger candidates, limiting the age of the presidents to 70 yo, 2 or max 3 mandates, getting a larger voting base to bring some air, more transparency. Until not long ago, the CNOSF and the federations were bonding together against those wills of reform and decided against them.
But with Macron's election, things have changed. Sport federations look totally off base and they know it. The state is about to reduce money for sport (which is already not big). And 2024 Olys are now a deadline when the government wants sport organisations to be totally reformed. The government is going to cut most of its ties to sport federations and wants to put things in order and in motion before that. So there is a initiative for the "reform of sport governance" by the Ministry of Sport that is to make some propositions in the coming months.

At the 2016 elections (summer sports), on their own, several people overthrew the old presidents on the basis of these reforms. But some others feds resisted. At the 2018 elections (winter sports), the propositions for sport reform won't be ready either so there will be no external pressure on this election to force the FFSG to evolve (and get rid of his president), even if everyone think the FFSG is the worst of all the french sport feds and is the perfect example of why the reform is necessary.

Don't know really. He was elected a year ago or something.
He was re-elected in 2014. Next elections are in May or June. No declared opponent yet.

I can, however, get behind the argument that they need to work on other styles to get better in the SD. They need to find a way to become more comfortable with the SD rhythms, to be able to translate the SD music into movement and onto the ice the same way that they do it in the FD. But they don't need to change their FD style for that, they can work on that off the ice.
I think they need 2 things.

1st : for their SD, they need to find what woks for them I agree. And what works for them is recent music with which they relate and like to move. No standards, no overly adapted music (thinking about their waltz where the music was NOT waltzing). The ones where they lightened up in my opinion are their 2014 SD, the second part of their 2017 SD and this season's SD.
This is what they really have fun skating. And it shows.
I enjoyed seeing them skating a waltz as junior in 2011 to Coeur de Pirate much more than skating to Charms years and medals later.

2nd : and for the free, they need not to change style but explore further.
Ie not get rid of Marie-France and her view on steps and on what ice dance should be but work with external choreographers and put them even more at the heart of their choreo than what they did this year with Cirio.
Explore different kind of moves, different feelings.

I'd like them for example to go less ethereal and explore gutsy. (problem is, that isn't Marie-France's branch)
They explore feelings so I'm dreaming of a program about anger that would go like this : oppression, fear, anger, revolt, fight, victory, soothing. On drums.

I'd also like them to go for something sexy (but classy). I want them to skate to this. Water drops on burning rocks. :cool: Where is my fan ?


In general, I want them to go for what I call « esthetic shocks ». The year I wrote that on french forum, they came up with Oddudua and that's the kind of thing I'm talking about, except it's not just about getting musics that are unusual in ice dance but about creating an esthetically awing and fitting choreo. (frustrated me last season)
 
Last edited:
I'm confused why so many people think they would have retired at 22/23. I feel like I've missed something. Were there the same fears about V/M in 2010? Is it because they've said they don't watch ice dance as fans? They do seem to love skating/performing though.

V/M won the Olympics before they won most everything else, if I remember correctly. Dom/Shab were the favorites going into the 2010 Olympics and I'm not sure there were many who expected the podium order to be like this.
P/C already have two world titles, four European titles and a GPF title. Olympic Gold would have been the icing on the cake. I don't think it would have been a given that they would have retired. I think it would have depended on how much they enjoy performing and creating vs still having the motivation to stick around. Contrary to V/M they would have had won everything there is to win if they had won. Getting another shot at winning gold in four years should be a strong incentive to stick around though.
 
I'd like them for example to go less ethereal and explore gutsy. (problem is, that isn't Marie-France's branch)
They explore feelings so I'm dreaming of a program about anger that would go like this : oppression, fear, anger, revolt, fight, victory, soothing. On drums.
Yes yes yes yes YAS ! I've been waiting for them to skate on anger or fear since Build a Home. Maybe it's a little too dramatic for them, but how glorious could that be. After Odduada I think they have the basics to do it.

Also thanks for that report on the french federations, I was waiting for your expert opinion on this :)
 
I'm just so amazed by the way they are handling everything. They seem so level-headed and mature. I bet their life coach really helped them gain perspective too. I know people say they shouldn't be sad about "losing gold" because they "won silver" but we all know that the gold was within reach at the beginning of the SD. It was always between them and V/M. This isn't pairs, ladies or men where you can have an off day and drop down to 6th because you lost the elements.

But like Guillaume says, this is sport. I'm just so proud of them and cannot wait to see what the future holds. They still have a lot of room to evolve. Please skategods keep them safe from injury!
 
I'm just so amazed by the way they are handling everything. They seem so level-headed and mature. I bet their life coach really helped them gain perspective too. I know people say they shouldn't be sad about "losing gold" because they "won silver" but we all know that the gold was within reach at the beginning of the SD. It was always between them and V/M.

Yes it's not like they were hoping for a podium. Everybody knew silver was a "minimum". I'm sure VM would have been disappointed with a silver too.
But in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter... what stay are the programs :)
 
Thanks. As a fan of both teams who also likes Shibutanis I mostly agree with what she writes about Gabriella and Guillaume, but don't agree with the parts concerning Tessa/Scott and Shibutanis. Her indication that V/M are all about performance (apart from athleticism) and are not as musical as P/C + her comment on how Gabriella and Guillaume are "tuned into each other", while, T/S, presumably, are not, with Scott being there just to show off Tessa, was what gave me pause and discredited her opinions in my eyes at least somewhat. As did what she wrote about Shibutanis, as it is obvious that she has not even tried to see that Shibutanis are giving a completely another meaning to Coldplay's song 'Paradise' in their FD rather than what she is understanding with it.

Sorry for this, but sometimes it's really difficult to be a fan of two or more rival skaters or teams.
 
Gailhaguet 101 : Reed between the lines
"Their style" = Dubreuil and Haguenauer
"Be more open to the world" = I want you to change coach and go where I'm going to tell you to go.

Last year already, he wanted them to move away from Montréal. He said training with V/M was a wrong idea.
Now, he wants them to move away from Montréal. He says it's about their style.
That's BS.
He just want to cut them off from their base to get control over their career and uses arguments at hand.
I know some people like to insist that P/C's success has been bought and paid for by Gailhaguet, but it seems very clear to me that they've succeeded in spite of him, not because of him.
 
I think when G/G realise what they've achieved not losing the gold but winning the silver.Imagine six years ago if you had told them they would be on the olympic podium with a silver medal and being twice world champs four time euros and gpf winners :eek:

Looking forward so much to see them develop in the future:)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information