Papadakis/Cizeron #5 - We're In Love With The Shape Of You

Status
Not open for further replies.
SD was a not a problem for them this year on the contrary. I truly believe if not for the distraction of the dress they would either have won the SD or been extremely close and then with the FD lead ... They had consistently the best pattern of all the teams, the only team to get L4 with it every single time they competed even with the same tough caller than at the Olympics during Cup of China. Here they finally got L4 on the non touching too. As for the twizzle, well clearly fearing for your boobs to be exposed when you rotate can only distract you. Then in the FD, they are supreme and still hold the record. Basically they had this but as Guillaume said it's sports, unexpected stuff happens.
Technically they improved tremendously especially on the SD portion so I fully expect them to be really good with the Tango next season.
I also want them to explore further their FD style and specifically work with more people from the ballet world like Jeffrey. I want chaos on ice, I'd love a rite of Spring, I'd love sharper and more aggressive movements a bit like what they tried with Oddudua but for the whole FD.
 
Last edited:
A New York Times dance critic basically wrote a love letter to their FD.
But the lyrical and musical Ms. Papadakis and Mr. Cizeron are more of a slow boil. Moving as one, they are gossamer as they transform the ice into air. Their free dance unfurled gradually and hypnotically, building to feverish spin sequences. One, in which Mr. Cizeron rotated in a sit spin while holding Ms. Papadakis’s extended leg as she opened her right shoulder and head to the ceiling, was a spectacle of position and daring.

As soon as the piano became subdued and dreamy, their flurry of footwork returned to the quiet hush of the start. As they glided across the ice in whispering strokes, it seemed as if they were no longer skating in an arena, but on a pond. In that moment, at once bracing and luminous, the Olympics turned from being a competition into a performance. This year the silver was the gold.

ITA
 
You guys should be glad that short program wasn’t called on what they performed bs reputation. Gabby Twizzled like she had too many cocktails. They were awarded the same silver medal Sasha Cohen was awarded exceltnshe was smart enough to call t a gift. I hate the dress situation happened but if the correct deductions were applied, they would have been lucky to medal at all.

That’s not their fault though. It’s just something i i don’t think most people are being honest about.
 
V/M won the Olympics before they won most everything else, if I remember correctly. Dom/Shab were the favorites going into the 2010 Olympics and I'm not sure there were many who expected the podium order to be like this.
P/C already have two world titles, four European titles and a GPF title. Olympic Gold would have been the icing on the cake. I don't think it would have been a given that they would have retired. I think it would have depended on how much they enjoy performing and creating vs still having the motivation to stick around. Contrary to V/M they would have had won everything there is to win if they had won. Getting another shot at winning gold in four years should be a strong incentive to stick around though.

V/m head a world silver and if I remember correctly Dom/Sham’s were either dealing with an injury or coming off one which effected training.
 
You guys should be glad that short program wasn’t called on what they performed bs reputation. Gabby Twizzled like she had too many cocktails. They were awarded the same silver medal Sasha Cohen was awarded exceltnshe was smart enough to call t a gift. I hate the dress situation happened but if the correct deductions were applied, they would have been lucky to medal at all.

That’s not their fault though. It’s just something i i don’t think most people are being honest about.

:blah:
Why are you doing this? Seriously what's your goal?
 
You guys should be glad that short program wasn’t called on what they performed bs reputation. Gabby Twizzled like she had too many cocktails. They were awarded the same silver medal Sasha Cohen was awarded exceltnshe was smart enough to call t a gift. I hate the dress situation happened but if the correct deductions were applied, they would have been lucky to medal at all.

That’s not their fault though. It’s just something i i don’t think most people are being honest about.

Why say things like that here now? Yeah, and - not their fault they got even that silver medal. How lovely.
 
You guys should be glad that short program wasn’t called on what they performed bs reputation. Gabby Twizzled like she had too many cocktails. They were awarded the same silver medal Sasha Cohen was awarded exceltnshe was smart enough to call t a gift. I hate the dress situation happened but if the correct deductions were applied, they would have been lucky to medal at all.

That’s not their fault though. It’s just something i i don’t think most people are being honest about.
Obviously they were going to be 2nd. Have you rewatched it ? Apart from the twizzle everything was very strong, and if someone thinks it should have been less than silver, that's unbelievable :eek: Quality of element way superior.

Also no deduction as the rules stated : they did not stop, and nothing fell off, she hold on to it.

They might have gotten a bit more than expected on twizzles, I personnally wouldn't have put high GOEs, but go rewatch it : correct numbers of turns, the first and last one in sync, only the transition and 2nd set were a bit shaky. But then every top team on twizzles issue got high GOEs this year. I personnally thinks it's bonkers, but it's consistent. And I'd like that to be stopped, but what can I do.

Also, we did not complain because if we were to be picky, V/M would have gotten a 0.60 less in the Rumba due to Tessa 2nd Chochtaw as Ben called, but we won't because it does balance things out. And before getting attacked, I'm not here to restart a stupid fanwar, but turn out in the SD, both teams got a little bit more than expected on a particular element.
 
Last edited:
I know some people like to insist that P/C's success has been bought and paid for by Gailhaguet, but it seems very clear to me that they've succeeded in spite of him, not because of him.
They owe him nothing.
They must be respectful because he sits on the money but when he talks BS, they spend their time debunking what he just said to the french media.
When he complained about the "canadian judge", Nathalie and them explained how a judging panel works and if there is an advantage of having a judge on the jury, it works both ways. Guillaume ended by a "sometimes, there is also a french judge, you know ?"
When Gailhaguet said they have a style problem, surprised Gabriella answered : "I don't really understand. We shall have a conversation with him, if there must be a conversation." which sums up their relationship.
They keep him at arm's length. And he can't stand that.

Gailhaguet is an opportunist.
He prides himself as being THE LUCID ONE.
But what he does is occupy the scene and use a lucid argument to push his agenda.
For example, what he said about P/C style.
Right now, everyone is thinking : "oh, how horrible, how dare he ! he's the worst ! blabla"
That doesn't bother him because being loved is not what matters to him.
But think about it. A lot of people actually think that P/C need to evolve (in the future).
The litteral meaning of what he is saying is actually lucid for P/C's career, even if the timing and the implications seem wrong.

One can say : "yes, this may be lucid but how can he be so wrong/obnoxious on the timing".
He's perfectly right on the timing. His timing.
Now every top ice dance coach know that P/C may be "on the market" by April and can enter talks with Gailahguet/ have the time to put together a ready-made offer that Gailhaguet will push toward them.
And in the future, whatever happens, he will be able to say : "I was lucid then. Before everyone else. I was right. Against everybody. Listen to me because I know."
If P/C stay in Montréal and don't evolve enough, he will be able to say :"they didn't listen to me and now the judges love them less. Told you. Do as I say, now."
If P/C stay in Montréal and evolve enough, he will be able to say : "they listened to me, that's why they are winning. I'm the wise guy."
If P/C leave, he will be able to say : "they listened to me, I organized everything"
At the same time, he puts P/C under pressure.
Gailhaguet is going to have the whole french tour to twist their a... convice them to do what he wants as he sits comfortably over the money for their training (ISU prize money, fed's money, permission for doing galas ...)

And for little skaters' parents, or for young athletes who are not ferociously independant-minded like P/C, this is a huge argument for listening to someone whose voice seems the most lucid. Who do you want to listen to ? The nice guy ? Or the guy who is able to tell you the truth, even the brutal truth on how your kid can make it to the top ?
It's also part of his image to get elected by club presidents. "You may not love me, but I do the job and I say things when they need to be said. I know my federation inside out, I know international figure skating inside out. Nobody else can pretend to my level of know-how so I'm THE guy."

Gailhaguet is not silly. He doesn't go outrageous to get panned by every media (french media who don't follow figure skating first published raw Gailhaguet's declarations from the AFP's press dispatch without analysis but now that they are getting analysed, he is getting panned ; on twitter, several journalists are crucifying Gailhaguet), or any social media.
He knows what he is doing and that he will get the result he wanted : show that he is at the center of the game and what bigger stage than the Games.
For him, in any case, it's a win.
 
Last edited:
You guys should be glad that short program wasn’t called on what they performed bs reputation. Gabby Twizzled like she had too many cocktails. They were awarded the same silver medal Sasha Cohen was awarded exceltnshe was smart enough to call t a gift. I hate the dress situation happened but if the correct deductions were applied, they would have been lucky to medal at all.

That’s not their fault though. It’s just something i i don’t think most people are being honest about.

What are you doing opening this thread anyway? There are many other threads to raise this opinion on fsu, you don't have to come and attack us "guys".
 
Also, we did not complain because if we were to be picky, V/M would have gotten a 0.60 less in the Rumba due to Tessa 2nd Chochtaw as Ben called, but we won't because it does balance things out. And before getting attacked, I'm not here to restart a stupid fanwar, but turn out in the SD, both teams got a little bit more than expected on a particular element.

Exactly ! Neither V/M nor P/C are absolutely and constantely perfect.

V/M ubers protesting about P/C notation and accusing the judges to be all and only pro P/C is nonsense. Both teams are loved by the judges and both teams have benefited from it apparently in the SD (and at other competitions in the recent past).

Both teams have great skating skills and each in it's respective (very appreciated by the judges) style has great artistry and mastery and are above the rest of the competitors. But none of them are infaillible machines and they do make errors sometimes like everybody else.

Judges have to improve to mark those errors the same way for everybody. Contrary to what is implied or loudly clamored by their fans V/M is absolutely not disadvantaged and hasn't been at least since their return. I don't know for before because I hadn't been following ice dance for a while. I came back with P/C.

But that V/M constant victimisation narrative is really getting old.
 
But that V/M constant victimisation narrative is really getting old.
I guess a win is not enough, it takes some skills to have your fav winning and yet manage to be a sour winner.

Anyhow, let's focus on the positive. They looked really strong during those interviews trying to handle the disappointment as well as possible. I hope they'll soon fully realize how fantastic it was for them to bounce back breaking WR left and right and winning their first GPF after 2016/2017 difficult season. No one expected them to do so well facing V/M and beating them. I just hope they can refocus fast enough to be ready for Worlds and finish their season on a high. Many skaters even gold winners have hard time to do it so I just wish they can go out on the ice in Milan and skate the SD of their lives with a titanium dress :D
 
Question - why do people think P&C have to evolve? What exactly is wrong?

The best continue to grow and push their abilities and their art. They are great at contempory/lyrical but they can push themselves beyond that. Personally I don't want them to do what they have always done because they are better than that. I am not saying they need to do a hip hop, but something waltzy from them would be lovely. Something along the lines of Lyrical blues would be amazing too.

JMHO
 
I agree, I think they would do an awesome blues. :respec:

When I was watching H/D's FD, I was thinking P/C would kill this style of blues.
 
Question - why do people think P&C have to evolve? What exactly is wrong?
Nothing is wrong. But they have only been at the top seats of ice-dancing for 4 years and they are still very young. They can explore different styles, work with other choreographers, even other coaches. Push the envelope. Remember S/S? Different discipline but still. You just never knew what that couple would bring every year. Their Pina programme was unlike anything we had every seen in a pairs programme. That's what I mean by evolve: innovate, not technically (they excel in that already), but artistically. They tried that last year, but they can go even further IMO.
 
Gailhaguet 101 : Reed between the lines
"Their style"

Thank you so much for your detailed explanations on the situation with Gailhaguet and French figure skating. It is quite shocking.

I along with so many others can't understand his longevity in a prominent position with all his really bad/shady politics for the clubs, the skaters and the federation itself.

I wish someone would make a dossier on him and send it to mediapart or le canard enchainé to get him out of the picture. From what I understand now : His reputation is tarnished, he doesn't seem to be appreciated at the international level, he is bad news for the French Fed, French skaters and clubs alike. He behaves like a mafioso godfather (devide and reign, blackmail, intimidation, ...) and seems to have definitely hurt French figure skating. And now he is going after Haguenauer and P/C ...

With what you explained, I really fear for the future of Gabriella and Guillaume as well as all French skating !
 
It was already a bit investigated by medias in 2014 (before P/C became world champs).

Local tv talked about the opposition between Gailhaguet and Muriel Zazaoui, who trained them at the time (and more generally, Lyon) :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC5gRr4eeo4.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH80Q5dlG_g

I believe you can find more recent videos as well. It comes up from time to time. I don't know what's really happening between Lyon and the FFSG, so I don't know if the videos were accurate and if the situation is still the same.
 
Question - why do people think P&C have to evolve? What exactly is wrong?

Nothing is wrong, but they are in the very beginning of their career. You would hope that any team this young would evolve over time. Even if they stay in the same style, there are deeper layers to explore, more movement to be mastered.
 
Co-worker came into my office today to discuss the FD. He has a bit of a hockey background and he gushed about how blown away he was by Guillaume's power in his skating. That's a supreme compliment coming from a hockey person.

This is what I mean when I mentioned earlier their acceleration. It was so sudden and unexpected but not obvious, with crossovers and effort. The only way I could tell was suddenly seeing the words on the rink board blur. They just looked like they were moving their feet. I rewound it showed it to my brother because I was so amazed. I actually love watching that part over and over.
 
I agree, I think they would do an awesome blues. :respec:

When I was watching H/D's FD, I was thinking P/C would kill this style of blues.

Right?

I could also see them dance to the music from the show Medici.

Am I the only one who remembers them getting hammered around here for trying a swing SD? It's not that they haven't tried other styles.

Swing is hard for many couples. Too bloody perky... so good for B&K and B&A no one could perk like them
 
Right?

I could also see them dancer to the music from the show Medici.



Swing is hard for many couples. Too bloody perky... so good for B&K and B&A no one could perk like them

That’s what puzzled me so much that year the jive happened. B/K failed that totally
 
Nothing but like every skater they have to grow and evolve. V/M did that too after 2010 Olympics. They were hampered by her surgeries of course.

Thanks for the explanation. The only reason I ask is that Op-Ed in the NYT and Johnny Weir talked about the difference in styles between V/M and P/C, and both sort of said that they preferred their ethereal, ghostly skating, compared to the more "performative" aspect of V/M. I think the NYT author even said that style was distracting. Why would P/C then try and do that if it is not the sort of "style" that others like? Why would they do that and not stay with what people like about them?
 
I feel like swing only really works for pair skating where you can do throw jumps and overhead lifts.

Tango SDs should be good next season, though... :cheer2:

It’s going to be really interesting to see who excels in the tango and who doesn’t. Example I’m not entirely sure how the Shibsibs will do
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
Do Not Sell My Personal Information