I, Tonya

[skatingguy]

The media doesn't go out seeking OJ and asking him " did you kill Nicole".

The media doesn't ask if OJ killed Nicole because they assume that he did. From what I see, he doesn't seek media attention anymore...except when he wrote that book If I Did It which got incredible negative feedback from the public and media.

Plus OJ was jail for awhile too, and a lot people were very happy about it. It was seen as a punishment for the murders.

 

[berthesghost]

Gosh, so many names thrown out there to deflect attention.

So, to get a more apples to apples comparison, I googled "male athletes who had their competitors attacked" and all the results were about Tonya

Am I really alone in thinking Obama joking "some even suggested I pull an OJ and slit Michelle's throat" wouldn't get the same response as his Tonya joke? If only tonya's gang had gone ahead with their plan to murder Nancy, then poor Tonya wouldn't be the butt of late night jokes. Apparently snowflake comedians consider actual brutal murder too touchy a subject to make jokes about. Poor Tonya, always has it so much harder than everyone else on the planet.

 

[cmk]

Gosh, so many names thrown out there to deflect attention.

So, to get a more apples to apples comparison, I googled "male athletes who had their competitors attacked" and all the results were about Tonya

Am I really alone in thinking Obama joking "some even suggested I pull an OJ and slit Michelle's throat" wouldn't get the same response as his Tonya joke? If only tonya's gang had gone ahead with their plan to murder Nancy, then poor Tonya wouldn't be the butt of late night jokes. Apparently snowflake comedians consider actual brutal murder too touchy a subject to make jokes about. Poor Tonya, always has it so much harder than everyone else on the planet.

 

[cmk]

They did make comments about Amy Fisher who actually shot her lover's wife in the head. The wife survived, Amy did prison time, Joey became the but of the jokes, and Amy has actually done some reality tv (celebrity rehab, a couple of episodes of world's dumbest before being dropped because of negative public opinion, and she was originally supposed to be Tonya's first celebrity boxing opponent on tv. Paula Jones was a last minute sub after Amy's probation officer denied her permission claiming that Tonya ( who had no prior knowledge and merely withheld the info that her abusive hubby had done it for a few days) was a bad influence over someone who had tried to kill their lover's wife. Joey later boxed the wrestler China on a later celebrity boxing show.

There is a double standard when it comes to female athletes. Male athletes can and do get away with more. Bowman's drug addiction and bad boy antics were tolerated by the usfsa and usoc because he was a very attractive straight male. It didn't help Chris in the long run because his addiction lead to later health problems that shortened his life. He wasn't the greatest commentator though. I do wonder how a movie called I, Christopher would do- Bradley could do the skating scenes, I think Efron would be a good choice of actor to play him. Christopher also never failed a drug test.

Tonya did not attack her competitior. Her ex-hubby and his friends did it behind her back. Jeff was known to have abused her yet everyone wants to believe his side of the story. I don't believe that Tonya staged the death threat. Jeff says now it was Shawn's idea. Shawn is dead, but none of Shawn's other schemes ever panned out. Shawn was a " big fat gasbag who still lived at home with his parents and drove a 76 mercury" (quote from movie). She was unfairly banned from the only thing she knew how to do despite flimsy circumstantial evidence and was convicted by the media and public before she had done anything at all. (paraphrased from the truth and lies special). Tonya was a very talented skater that was perfectly capable of beating Nancy on her own without any help if the skating was all that matter- Tonya was the better skater of the 2.

If the judges had got it right at 92 Olympics, Tonya would of had the bronze there. The whack wouldn't of happened because Tonya would of turned pro and started making money instead of struggling for the next few years. The costume malfunctions don't happen in 93 and 94 because Tonya would of been touring with ice capades or coi. There was a winter version of coi with just pro skaters. Nancy skated very poorly in the 92 Olympic free and had a much simpler program planned than the other top ladies. Nancy's skates in Lillehamer were not her norm - that was the first close to clean (it was not flawless) free skate in her career. Oksana deserved the gold because she had a magical quality that night. Nancy doubled the flip, shaky landing on 2axel, and the worst spins of any lady televised on us tv in the competition.

Tonya had clean shorts at 93 skate America (where she beat Oksana by the way in that portion of the event) and 94 nationals. No one seems to know what really happened with her combo at 93 nhk, but her long must of been at least decent because she pulled up 3 spots and was possibly robbed of the bronze. The one competition where no one has ever posted the short or long of a Tonya routine it seems. She skated very well in the short at 94 nationals and if she had been able to repeat that, she would of been much higher than 10th after the short. I still say she was lowballed because she was placed behind Yuka (single lutz), Josee with a fall, and Katarina and Tanja who were clean but did easier combos. After the restart, Tonya did the best 3 lutz of the 94 Olympics, only female to land the 3 flip in that portion of the event as well, 3sal, and she rotated the 3 loop , landed on one foot but quickly put the other foot down. Tonya was very inconsistent but I think she would of skated a much better short at worlds, and done better than the long as well. I don't think she was going to beat Surya without a true combo, but she probably would of bumped Tanja S off the podium with a clean skate. It wouldn't make the lifetime ban easier to swallow, but she might of felt better about her last ametauer performance and it would shut up the idiots that didn't think she could skate at all. (there were a few of those).

I disagree with the lifetime ban because I see it as cruel and unusal punishment. Suspension for a year for what she did admit to and granting consideration for extenuating circumstances would of been fair. She shouldn't of been blackballed from pro events either. Kerrigan did quite a few and always acted like she didn't even what to be there. I truly believe all Tonya ever wanted to do is skate (and make money doing it). As for the Golden Globes, she was there as the guest of Margot Robbie. I don't have a problem with Tonya attending events related to a movie that is about her. There is an interview with Robbie that is on youtube in case anyone wants to look for it.

 

[Yazmeen]

cmk: how does your innocence narrative square with the fact that Tonya owned up to knowing that her ex and his goons discussed taking out a fellow competitor in her January 11th interview? That after 24 years she finally admitted she knew "something was up" prior to the attack after LYING that she absolutely had no knowledge of anything until after it happened for all these years? Not to mention that she did nothing prior to the attack knowing these things.

 

[attyfan]

The bit about the legal fees ignores the fact that Tonya could have gotten appointed counsel -- and that appointed attorney would (probably) have a lot more experience handling criminal cases than merely a legal "general practitioner". Also, at the time, courts could give harsher sentences based on factors that didn't have to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt -- so the evidence that Tonya was involved in the whack could be used to increase a prison term for what she did do (obstructing justice or hindering prosecution) even if there wasn't enough evidence to actually convict her for assault.

 

[Yehudi]

who are the other female athletes “behaving badly” though?

Jennifer Capriati got caught shoplifting during her burnout phase and then came back and won a few grand slams, and then retired.

Marion Jones went to jail for check fraud but most people felt sorry for her. When she got out of jail, she played with the WNBA for a while then went into obscurity.

Serena Williams gets a ton flack here and there (like when she was defaulted for threatening to shove a ball down a line judge’s mouth), but, at the moment, has a good image as the greatest player, and happy wife and mother.

 

[cmk]

cmk: how does your innocence narrative square with the fact that Tonya owned up to knowing that her ex and his goons discussed taking out a fellow competitor in her January 11th interview? That after 24 years she finally admitted she knew "something was up" prior to the attack after LYING that she absolutely had no knowledge of anything until after it happened for all these years? Not to mention that she did nothing prior to the attack knowing these things.

She told them she could make the team on their own. She probably didn't think they would actually do it and I doubt she knew the details as to when or where. If she had reported her hubby and friend's threat against an unnamed competitor , stating she didn't know how or when, and if they didn't do it, she would of been seen as a crazy. Shawn hadn't done anything else he had planned or make up outlandish stuff. She wasn't lying about the no prior knowledge as to who (she didn't say whiny by name), when or where. Everyone wants to believe Jeff the moocher (or are you going to try to claim that he wasn't trying to live off her income after he quit his job to become her so called "manager".

She can't stop an attack prior to it happening if she didn't know about it. She called Jeff after the nhk short not knowing that she would pull up 3 spots and probably should of pulled up 4 ( if only I could get access to those programs). She was not clairvoyant and could not see into the future. Yes she should of turned Jeff in sooner, but is it that hard to believe that he threatened to harm her when he did have a well documented history of abusing her?
She also skated too well at 94 nationals to have known about the attack in advance. Jeff was interviewed for the movie too, and yes he did conveniently pin everything on the late Shawn. Jeff also had a well documented history of abusing wife #2 (who ended up her life while in drug rehab). I haven't heard anything about wife #3 other than she raised the kids with him when #2 passed.

 

[cmk]

who are the other female athletes “behaving badly” though?

Jennifer Capriati got caught shoplifting during her burnout phase and then came back and won a few grand slams, and then retired.

Marion Jones went to jail for check fraud but most people felt sorry for her. When she got out of jail, she played with the WNBA for a while then went into obscurity.

Serena Williams gets a ton flack here and there (like when she was defaulted for threatening to shove a ball down a line judge’s mouth), but, at the moment, has a good image as the greatest player, and happy wife and mother.

Bobek for home invasion and dealing meth. She got probation, and still gets invited to perform in skating shows plus has a 2nd career as a circus acrobat.

 

[pixie cut]

Bobek for home invasion and dealing meth. She got probation, and still gets invited to perform in skating shows plus has a 2nd career as a circus acrobat.

Bobek's first offense was as a juvenile. She actually did quite a bit of time in county jail on the meth arrest before accepting the plea. The big difference is Bobek didn't have a connection to harming a competitor. She also fully admitted what she did wrong, took responsibility for her life and turned things around. Tonya has played the innocent victim for 24 years and counting. If anyone needs further proof, it's there in the movie.

 

[berthesghost]

Until Adam's boyfriend has Nathan's knee whacked and usfs doesn't ban Adam, this whole male athletes have is easier red herring is a mute point. We have no idea how usfs or the general public would react to a male skater being involved in a rival's brutal attack because it's never happened.

Skaters and their fans feel they were "wuz robbed" at the olys all the time, none of them were involved in attacking their rivals. You have no frickin clue what Tonya and Jeff would have done had she taken bronze in alberville. As it is, there was no rational reason for taking Nancy out in 94 as things were.

Luckily for usfs, our opinions don't matter and as a private club they can be as "cruel and unusual" as they please. All members know that when they join, just as every skater knows they are at the mercy of the judges, yet they still choose to stay in the sport and compete.

 

[cmk]

Until Adam's boyfriend has Nathan's knee whacked and usfs doesn't ban Adam, this whole male athletes have is easier red herring is a mute point. We have no idea how usfs or the general public would react to a male skater being involved in a rival's brutal attack because it's never happened.

Skaters and their fans feel they were "wuz robbed" at the olys all the time, none of them were involved in attacking their rivals. You have no frickin clue what Tonya and Jeff would have done had she taken bronze in alberville. As it is, there was no rational reason for taking Nancy out in 94 as things were.

Luckily for usfs, our opinions don't matter and as a private club they can be as "cruel and unusual" as they please. All members know that when they join, just as every skater knows they are at the mercy of the judges, yet they still choose to stay in the sport and compete.

I believe Tonya would of gone pro because she was tired of struggling financialy. She could of signed with ice capades for the 92 and 93 tours, or stayed with coi. There was an option to reinstate in 93 for the 94 Olympics so Tonya could of gone pro for one year, made a ton of money, and then reinstated if she wanted to do and usfsa didn't lose the paperwork (ie Rory Flack). Boitano, Witt, and Zayak all took advantage of that option with Boitano and Witt going on to the Olympics.

 

[berthesghost]

True. Tonya and her hubager could have made $ skating pro for a year and then come back and trained for Norway. Instead they chose to club Nancy.

 

[BaileyCatts]

What "ton of money" do you thing Tonya would have made in 1992? There was no highly lucrative pro scene at the time in 1992. What pro comps were there in 1992? Maybe 3? 4? and you get may be $10-20K appearance fees? Ice Capades? She's not making multi-million dollar money on that. Not even million dollar money. COI? That ain't million dollar money either, not in 1992. Could she have made a decent amount of money? Sure. "Ton of money"? In 1992 as a pro? Nope. Not even close.

 

[Yazmeen]

She wasn't lying about the no prior knowledge as to who (she didn't say whiny by name), when or where.

For more than 24 years, she has claimed she knew nothing, nada, not a thing at all prior to the attack. Then suddenly this. Not saying whom, when, or where doesn't negate the fact that she has LIED HER TAIL OFF for 24+ years about knowing nothing.

I realize I'm talking to the wall here; frankly, I'm waiting for you to come up with a scenario where you can blame Nancy for getting herself attacked.

 

[berthesghost]

OMG until evidence comes out that Nicole drove Shane to cape cod, can we just leave her out of it, as she pretty much has nothing to do with people Tonya knew attacking Nancy.

and yet here she is under the bus yet again. Too bad hating on Nicole doesn’t make Tonya any less guilty, plus she got to skate in pro usfs comps

I realize I'm talking to the wall here; frankly, I'm waiting for you to come up with a scenario where you can blame Nancy for getting herself attacked.

um.. didn’t that like happen back on like page 3

 

[Moto Guzzi]

I realize I'm talking to the wall here; frankly, I'm waiting for you to come up with a scenario where you can blame Nancy for getting herself attacked.

Nancy's unenlightened mother is to blame.

If only Brenda Kerrigan had been more enlightened when Nancywanted to play hockey at 6 like her brothers instead of saying boys play hockey, girls skate there would of been no whack either.

 

[bardtoob]

If only Brenda Kerrigan had been more enlightened when Nancywanted to play hockey at 6 like her brothers instead of saying boys play hockey, girls skate there would of been no whack either.

Nancy's unenlightened mother is blame.

Please, just don't link to Nancy's mom glued to a rink side TV monitor

 

[cmk]

and yet here she is under the bus yet again. Too bad hating on Nicole doesn’t make Tonya any less guilty, plus she got to skate in pro usfs comps um.. didn’t that like happen back on like page 3

You asked for an example of another female athlete behaving badly. Nicole did twice. I don't hate Nicole and actually enjoyed her skating when she was in her prime. Ice Capades actually paid fairly well for female Olympic medalists, its the skaters that didn't meal that made less. I'm sure Bowman made a lot with ice capades, the people that did the big opening number (I miss those by the way) probably didn't. Hamill went bankrupt when she owned it due to mismanagement by her husband at the time. Nicole did her time for those, her mistakes are not being held over her head, she gets invited to skate in ice shows once in a while, and does circus acts with her husbnd when she isn't skating. Nicole was also had a bit part in a movie as well. Michelle, Nicole, and Tara made quite a bit with coi after the boom. Tara actually regretted switching tours to soi, because she was very young and the other soi skaters were older. They also didn't take her hip injury as serious as they should of- Collins would of let her take a show or two off, soi wouldn't.
I am tired of Tonya's mistakes getting held over head and think Tonya should of at least got the same 2nd chance Nicole gets. There is no proof that she knew more than what she pled guilty too. Tonya went from abusive mom to abusive husband after her dad left her as a teen. She was supposed to go with her dad after the divorce but when he couldn't find work in Oregon, he moved to Idaho and didn't take her with her. He didn't think she would of been able to find a coach near Boise (although I am sure he could of found one in Sun Valley or Salt Lake City if he had wanted to). Everyone else seems to get a 2nd chance, and I think Tonya should too .
Nancy was not that great of a skater. Imo, Nancy was a less than mediocre skater that got lucky and finally had 2 fairly clean skates in lillehamer (that long was not flawless. The doubled flip, shaky 2axel, lack of speed and power, and the worst spins of the top 10 were enough reason to not give her the gold. Oksana earned it - spins and footwork are part of the tech mark too, its not just the jumps.

 

[cmk]

What "ton of money" do you thing Tonya would have made in 1992? There was no highly lucrative pro scene at the time in 1992. What pro comps were there in 1992? Maybe 3? 4? and you get may be $10-20K appearance fees? Ice Capades? She's not making multi-million dollar money on that. Not even million dollar money. COI? That ain't million dollar money either, not in 1992. Could she have made a decent amount of money? Sure. "Ton of money"? In 1992 as a pro? Nope. Not even close.

4 pro comps paying $20,000 each is $80,000. That is a lot of money to most people. I could pay off my house and car with that but I don't forsee winning the lotto anytime soon. Tom Collins once revealed what he paid her for her years on the tour, and it seemed like a lot. It wasn't millions, but Tonya could of earned enough in one year as a pro to buy her own costumes, better equipment (both Tonya and Surya had trouble with the boots and blades), more money for ice time, better meds to control her asthma that conformed to ioc rules (there is a list of everyday otc drugs that would get an athlete suspended (remember Radican the gymnast losing her gold due to Sudafed), etc.

 

[Aussie Willy]

I have heard of other stories about skaters doing things to other skaters to sabotage them. One was someone putting substances in food to make the competitor sick. And I am sure there are plenty of other stories out there.

I do not think the whole thing would be as big as it became if it wasn't for the media. I think it all fell into the image that skating was rife with politics and that everyone loves a rivalry. This took rivalry to the ultimate. That it was conceivable a competitor tried to take another competitor out in this way fitted in with a perception about the sport. That it was women made it even more intriguing.

The comment about men behaving badly and getting away with it is so true. They might do something but at the end of the day they seem to be forgiven and move on with life.

For Tonya while she may have been her own worst enemy, there appears to be more venom and hatred directly towards her for compared to what she was found guilty of. And I think much of that was because of the way the media treated both skaters. Their behaviour at the time was appalling. I am amazed even reading comments here that people just won't let it drop and carrying like it happened yesterday. It was so long ago. Time to move on.

 

[misskarne]

If you genuinely think she didn't know, I have a bridge I'd like to sell you.

And I am sick of people victimising her. She was a victim. She wasn't the victim. Yes, she had a screwed up childhood and abusive marriage. Lots of people have those and don't arrange for their competitors to be whacked. Lots of people have those and learn how to take responsibility for their own mistakes and actions instead of perpetually whining about how it's never her fault.

As for the pro thing - she was blacklisted by the other skaters, and I don't blame them one jot. I wouldn't want to skate in the same show as her. What if she thought I was in her way or had a better solo? The iron bar might come out again.

 

[berthesghost]

You asked for an example of another female athlete behaving badly.

no, I did not.

Most of us learn while still small children that “she did it too!” isn’t an excuse when we are bad.

 

[BaileyCatts]

4 pro comps paying $20,000 each is $80,000. That is a lot of money to most people. I could pay off my house and car with that but I don't forsee winning the lotto anytime soon. Tom Collins once revealed what he paid her for her years on the tour, and it seemed like a lot. It wasn't millions, but Tonya could of earned enough in one year as a pro to buy her own costumes, better equipment (both Tonya and Surya had trouble with the boots and blades), more money for ice time, better meds to control her asthma that conformed to ioc rules (there is a list of everyday otc drugs that would get an athlete suspended (remember Radican the gymnast losing her gold due to Sudafed), etc.

That's assuming she even would have made that, which is highly unlikely in 1992. $20,000 was probably Kristi money in 1992. And again, pro skating was not the financial windfall in 1992 it became for the likes of Michelle, Nicole and Tara after 1994. And you really think Tonya "dollar signs in my eyes" would have sensibly used money she earned to invest in a home, better costumes, equipment, ice time, training .. and actually continue training hard to sustain a pro career? As for the asthma, gee, maybe not smoking might have helped that issue just a bit, don't ya think? She could have used the money she spent on cigarettes to buy better medicine.

 

[cmk]

I wish my rider who never seems to be able to pay her $20 a week in gas money for rides to and from work every other week for me but always has money for cigarettes would pay me that instead of buying them as well. The other rider ( her and I take turns driving, the other girl does have a truck but won't take a turn but doesn't always pay. Supposedly , she's going to pay us after she "quits" to move to Florida but she claims that every year. She's up to $250 owed to me, and almost $400 to the other rider (who has also lent her money for food and cigs, and the nonpaying rider is the only smoker in the carpool). This nonpaying rider also has to pay $40 extra a month for her health insurance because she smokes, and if she would quit she could be using that money to pay us for the gas as well. My male friend keeps telling me not to keep taking her, but the other girl always wants to give her another chance. I am ready to tell her to find another ride, but the other girl isn't ready for that step yet. I have never smoked. I honestly don't know how people can stand the smell.

Tonya might of commanded high appearance fees in 92 as one of only 2 women capable of landing the 3axel. There were 4 pro camps and 2 pro-ams. Midori only did 2 pro comps a year in the states. Button would definatley had invited her to world pros and there wouldn't of been a blacklist back then.

I think Tonya would have brought better costumes and equipment. I am not sure she would of brought a house but she probably would of got a better car. People act like Tonya never trained, yet she was still able to land 3axels in practice at Nationals and the OLympics in 94 even if she didn't do them in the competition. The news also showed Tonya's practice almost every day during the scandal, and cameras would flash in front of her as she was about to jump. The rink did nothing to stop that practice either though most ice shows and comps announce no flash photography is permitted almoust up to the time she left for Norway.

 

[Inessence]

I think Tonya would be exactly where she is now Whack or no Whack. She doesn’t strike me as the “9-5” type of person that would be a dependable everyday coach. The tour thing likely would not have lasted more than 2-3 years and the money earned likely frivolously spent. Not surprising for a young person in their twenties.
It’s doubtful she would be invited to tours in her later stage of life without an Olympic medal or an exceedingly good rapport with other skaters. At the time of the incident, they referred to her as an “outsider” so that likely would not have happened either. Hopefully, residuals from the movie about her life will serve as a good pension plan for her.

 

[BaileyCatts]

One of the ladies I eat lunch with asked me the following since she knows I'm a skating fan: Isn't there some law about convicted criminals (which Tonya is by the way) not being allowed to profit off their crime? Good question. So why is she allowed to profit off 'I, Tonya' by being paid for her story or getting residuals (are we sure she gets this?)? Someone other than 'Tonya' answer please.

 

[Inessence]

From my readings it’s an extremely “muddy” law and rarely enforced. Maybe if there’s a lawyer in the house they could answer better. Tonya sold her “Life Rights” for $1500 and a percentage of the profits. I’ve looked up the typical amount and read it’s usually from 1-2%. (I’m not sure if that includes international and dvd sales.)

 

[cmk]

From my readings it’s an extremely “muddy” law and rarely enforced. Maybe if there’s a lawyer in the house they could answer better. Tonya sold her “Life Rights” for $1500 and a percentage of the profits. I’ve looked up the typical amount and read it’s usually from 1-2%. (I’m not sure if that includes international and dvd sales.)

The movie covers Tonya's life from age 3 to 44. The incident with Nancy only part of the movie. In fact, the actress that plays Nancy only has 2 scenes , and 1 line in the entire film. It also shows Tonya's brief boxing career in one scene as well and that had absolutely nothing to do with Nancy. It also does have a brief bit on Jeff's background ( his dad was air force but had passed, his mom didn't have money either). He apparently could of had his college paid for due to his dad's having passed, but ended up living with and eventually marrying Tonya instead. In the movie, he was a bus driver for handicapped people. He actually worked as at a warehouse but I'm sure it was easier for the movie to show him driving a bus rather then building a warehouse set . He eventually quit the warehouse to become moochager.

 

[HSCluv]

When was it announced that pro skaters could reinstate for '94?