"Why Don’t You Lose 5 Pounds?" - Nancy Kerrigan documentary

[Aussie Willy]

Nancy Kerrigan has made a documentary about eating disorders.

http://www.phillyvoice.com/documentary-nancy-kerrigan-highlights-eating-disorders-athletes/

 

[berthesghost]

Gannon’s clipped and rather glib commentary sounded, quite frankly, like a line out of "The Hunger Games."

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

If Joan Ryan's book, Little Girls In Pretty Boxes is any indication, Kerrigan's former coach, Evy Scotvold would bully and badger his female students about their weight.

Sadly, Lisa Ervin, after struggling with increased weight after puberty, left her longtime coach, Carol Heiss, and went to train with Evy and Mary Scotvold. She only competed once under them before retiring.

He also made quite rude remarks about Tonya Harding's weight, too.

Jenni Kirk, who is quite open about her eating disorders as an elite skater, was also a Scotvold student. Unfortunately, Kirk later trained with Richard Callahan (who coached Susie Wynne). Ryan's book details how Callahan refused to take Wynne to nationals one year unless she lost ten pounds (in a week!)

The emotional scars from eating disorders can often stay with their victims for a lifetime.

Good on Nancy for doing this.

 

[jenniferlyon]

I applaud Nancy for making this documentary and for being determined to raise her own kids with a healthier mindset.

 

[MacMadame]

I look forward to the documentary. A bit disturbed by some of the things she says to her kids though.

I followed some links from the first one posted above and found Jenny Kirk's exclusive interview about her eating disorder. In it, the interviewer keeps talking about "real women," as in the ones with hips and boobs. This really bothers me. I think a large part of why eating disorders are prevalent is that society as a whole is so willing to make judgments about women's bodies, which are the good ones, which aren't. I don't think sneering at thin bodies is the way to stop eating disorders. I think accepting all body types and stop treating women's bodies as being there for people to judge is a much better way.

Also, the Kirk articles were published in 2010 and it was presented that figure skating is in crisis because of eating disorders. But it's 7 years later and nothing seems to me to have changed. I hope Gracie Gold's situation, because she is so visible and walked away from the Olympics, maybe combined with this documentary, will be a tipping point.

 

[mag]

...This really bothers me. I think a large part of why eating disorders are prevalent is that society as a whole is so willing to make judgments about women's bodies, which are the good ones, which aren't. I don't think sneering at thin bodies is the way to stop eating disorders. I think accepting all body types and stop treating women's bodies as being there for people to judge is a much better way...

ITA. As someone who has neither large hips or large boobs I find it insulting when people suggest I am not a “real woman.” We should simply not be judging people based on their bodies. Unless they enter a body building competition, it shouldn’t matter.

Slightly OT but related, everyone is not beautiful. Beauty is a societal construct and varies significantly over time and location. Instead of going with the “but everyone is beautiful” line (which those who do not fall into the current definition of beautiful can see right through) I think it would be healthier to lessen the importance of beauty. For example, why is being beautiful, which is something you are basically born with, seen as so much more impressive than being well educated, which is something you need to work really hard at to attain?

 

[bardtoob]

Kerrigan's former coach, Evy Scotvold would bully and badger his female students about their weight.

Sadly, Lisa Ervin, after struggling with increased weight after puberty, left her longtime coach, Carol Heiss, and went to train with Evy and Mary Scotvold. She only competed once under them before retiring ...

... Jenni Kirk, who is quite open about her eating disorders as an elite skater, was also a Scotvold student.

I've heard this is what the first half of a skating lesson from Evy Scotvold is like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSmlViXU9AA

I always found this interesting . . .

“They were looking for a fatherly relationship for her,” says Evy Scotvold. “But I have no interest in being the father figure for any of my skaters.” What relationship they had broke off when Jana insisted on sending Nicole to the Goodwill Games in St. Petersburg, Russia, in July. Evy, who felt Nicole was overweight and out of shape, refused to go with her.

http://people.com/archive/diamond-in-the-rough-vol-43-no-9/

Conversely . . .

The Scotvolds, you must understand, care for him as they would a son. They had attended his Harvard graduation, which—before last Saturday night—was the proudest Evy and Mary had ever been of Wylie.

https://www.si.com/vault/1992/02/24...inning-performance-brightened-a-cloudy-career

He also made quite rude remarks about Tonya Harding's weight, too.

Evy always comes off as bitchy and obsessed with weight. This is from 2004, and Evy was still commenting on Tonya's weight

By this time, Nancy's camp did not think much of Tonya's chances. She was seen as a has-been, somebody who had frittered away her ample talents. "We were beyond her," Scotvold says. "We knew she was an undisciplined athlete, that she had weight problems."

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/20..._tonya-harding-nancy-kerrigan-darren-silver/2

. . . It is also interesting to note that it is pretty clear from the above quote that Evy was gossiping incessantly about Tonya in 1993-94 along those exact same lines because Tonya was able to parrot back almost exactly what Evy was saying in his gossip sessions within the skating community, and it actually made it into the broadcast of Tonya's 1994 US National LP Broadcast.

https://youtu.be/T3wfA4lrxNs?t=22

It is so weird to think an old fat man was saying this.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Nicole's upbringing was even sadder and more unsettled than I imagined. How awful for her to have to live through and process that alone.

 

[Japanfan]

ITA. As someone who has neither large hips or large boobs I find it insulting when people suggest I am not a “real woman.” We should simply not be judging people based on their bodies. Unless they enter a body building competition, it shouldn’t matter.

I followed some links from the first one posted above and found Jenny Kirk's exclusive interview about her eating disorder. In it, the interviewer keeps talking about "real women," as in the ones with hips and boobs. This really bothers me. I think a large part of why eating disorders are prevalent is that society as a whole is so willing to make judgments about women's bodies, which are the good ones, which aren't. I don't think sneering at thin bodies is the way to stop eating disorders. I think accepting all body types and stop treating women's bodies as being there for people to judge is a much better way.

While I agree with both of these posts, it's important to recognize that society at large doesn't sneer at thin bodies, but to the contrary, rather reveres them. Images of the 'ideal' women pervade the media, and they are thin, and made more so by photo shopping.

Instead of going with the “but everyone is beautiful” line (which those who do not fall into the current definition of beautiful can see right through) I think it would be healthier to lessen the importance of beauty. For example, why is being beautiful, which is something you are basically born with, seen as so much more impressive than being well educated, which is something you need to work really hard at to attain?

I agree. But even today, beauty seems to be worth more in terms of social capital than brains. I think that is changing, but only slowly, as women remain highly sexually objectified.

And woman are pursuing greater beauty through plastic surgery. A friend told me about a group of young women she knew who who went to Columbia for plastic surgery as 'medical tourists'. Such medical tourism is booming, and I fear that getting plastic surgery to enhance beauty is becoming more of a norm than self-acceptance.

 

[Deleted member 1204]

Eating disorders are bad. Bullying people is bad. Bullying people into developing eating disorders is bad. But Evy Scotvold was a coach who was getting paid a lot of money to get his students as far as they could. Let's be honest- you need to be thin to do triple jumps consistently (and quads, too, by the looks of Javier Fernandez, who is almost a skeleton at this point). It isn't just about aesthetics when it comes to sport. Would we all still love elite skating as a sport if it prohibited triple and quad jumps?

 

[Japanfan]

Let's be honest- you need to be thin to do triple jumps consistently (and quads, too, by the looks of Javier Fernandez, who is almost a skeleton at this point). It isn't just about aesthetics when it comes to sport. Would we all still love elite skating as a sport if it prohibited triple and quad jumps?

OTOH, you need to have fuel and energy to land triples and quads.

Sasha Cohen was very concerned about keeping her weight down, and I think that may have caused her jumps to suffer. OTOH, Tonya Harding was not as 'skater thin' as some other female skaters, and look at how powerful her jumps were.

Gabbie Daleman is another powerful, athletic skater who is not so 'skater thin' as others. In an interview, she said she used to be embarrassed of her biceps.

 

[MsZem]

While I agree with both of these posts, it's important to recognize that society at large doesn't sneer at thin bodies, but to the contrary, rather reveres them. Images of the 'ideal' women pervade the media, and they are thin, and made more so by photo shopping.

While models are typically thin, I've been seeing more and more messages along the lines of "real women have curves". How is this better than making thin people an ideal? It's still telling women that something is wrong with them if they don't fit a certain standard, but with a different standard applied.

Some real women have curves. Some don't. The message should be that real women come in all shapes, sizes and appearances.

 

[bardtoob]

Eating disorders are bad. Bullying people is bad. Bullying people into developing eating disorders is bad. But Evy Scotvold was a coach who was getting paid a lot of money to get his students as far as they could. Let's be honest- you need to be thin to do triple jumps consistently (and quads, too, by the looks of Javier Fernandez, who is almost a skeleton at this point). It isn't just about aesthetics when it comes to sport. Would we all still love elite skating as a sport if it prohibited triple and quad jumps?

I now understand why there are some grammar police on FSU that make a big deal about certain things. You really need to use multiple paragraphs for this.

Bullying people into eating disorders might have something to do with Evy Scotvold, but it certainly has nothing to do with Javier Fernandez.

Evy Scotvold might be a bully that pushes skaters into eating disorders, but he has nothing to do with being thin, Javier Fernandez, or the advent of quads and triples.

Javier Fernandez might be thin and does quads and triples, but he has nothing to do with bullying and Evy Scotvold.

I have no idea if Javi has an eating disorder, but, from what I know about him, I assume he is thin because that is the way his body is in the same way some basketball players are tall because that is the way there bodies are. Javi's type of thinness is not at all unusual for a Spaniard of his age. Admittedly, I have seen more than a few men built like Javi in tight bullfighter outfits and speedos up and down the beaches of the east coast of Spain

 

[Japanfan]

While models are typically thin, I've been seeing more and more messages along the lines of "real women have curves". How is this better than making thin people an ideal? It's still telling women that something is wrong with them if they don't fit a certain standard, but with a different standard applied.

It's better because it is more realistic - most women do not fit the stereotypical ideal of tall, thin and lithe. Most women have curves.

Though I agree that setting a standard for how women should look is problematic. However, there will always be standards of beauty - until we live in a different and much more evolved world. If so, it is better for those standards to be attainable. Otherwise women will be miserable and do harm to themselves in order to try and meet an impossible ideal.

 

[bardtoob]

Hmmm ... One other thing Tonya Harding showed was that a skater could do triples, including the Axel, without being thin.

In her prime, I think Tonya had more potential to land a quad than any 18-24 year old skating today.

 

[hanca]

Hmmm ... One other thing Tonya Harding showed was that a skater could do triples, including the Axel, without being thin.

In her prime, I think Tonya had more potential to land a quad than any 18-24 year old skating today.

The discussion shouldn’t be whether it is possible to land triples or quads if you are higher than average weight for a figure skater, but what’s the long term impact on your health, especially your knees and hips. If landing a jump means impact on your joints that is four times of your weight (and that’s when the jump is landed well, if it is not landed well, it is six times of your weight!), imagine how bad for your joints is any extra kilo you may have. An elite skater would do numerous jumps every day in practice, and not all of them will be landed well.

I am not promoting bullying anyone to lose weight, or anyone being ‘pushed’ into eating disorders, but there is a reason why the sport promotes slimmer skaters. The reason is not aesthetic, and it is not that it would be impossible to land the jumps while being heavier. The reason is that being slimmer is less damaging to the skater’s body.

 

[berthesghost]

What if we listen to what these women actually said? Both Jenny and Nancy stressed the need to control something because they felt they had lost control over their lives.

Gracie has been more quite, but none of the 3 to my knowledge have ever mentioned their coaches or blamed their "bullying".

That's not to say it isn't a factor. But it's not what they feel the need to bring up as a main point.

There's just something uncomfortable to me about taking Nancy's statement that the chaos Tonya caused in her life was the source, and somehow twisting that around to mean Evy Scotvold was bullying Tonya into a possible eating disorder. Although blaming Nancy and her team for the rotten things Tonya did to her is nothing new.

 

[Guinevere]

Katia Gordeeva once said in an article, that during her marriage to Ilia, he actually taught her how important to be healthy and eat healthy and not just be thin. I remember in her book that she talked about eating very little while competing to keep her weight down and it wasn't until she met Ilia that he taught her about nutrition. She said also in the same article that she was able to do jumps better as a result as well.

Now, granted, she is also blessed to have a body type that is well suited to skating, because I think there is no doubt thinness and lean muscle helps with jumping. It's why male skaters are long and lean and powerful, like Ilia, and not big and broad shouldered like Sergei was.

Here is an article where she talks about the importance of nutrition. I can't find the one where she said she jumps better now. It was a video clip during the SOI tour if I recall correctly.

http://www.providencejournal.com/article/20150311/ENTERTAINMENTLIFE/150319907

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

The discussion shouldn’t be whether it is possible to land triples or quads if you are higher than average weight for a figure skater, but what’s the long term impact on your health, especially your knees and hips. If landing a jump means impact on your joints that is four times of your weight (and that’s when the jump is landed well, if it is not landed well, it is six times of your weight!), imagine how bad for your joints is any extra kilo you may have. An elite skater would do numerous jumps every day in practice, and not all of them will be landed well.

I am not promoting bullying anyone to lose weight, or anyone being ‘pushed’ into eating disorders, but there is a reason why the sport promotes slimmer skaters. The reason is not aesthetic, and it is not that it would be impossible to land the jumps while being heavier. The reason is that being slimmer is less damaging to the skater’s body.

To paraphrase a quote from Joan Ryan's book, one skater said that if she skated better at 105 pounds but her coach thought she looked better at 100 pounds, the coach wanted her to lose those five pounds.

 

[MacMadame]

Would we all still love elite skating as a sport if it prohibited triple and quad jumps?

The choices aren't "be unhealthy thin" or "no triples / quads". There are other choices in between that.

Some real women have curves. Some don't. The message should be that real women come in all shapes, sizes and appearances.

Yes!

It's better because it is more realistic - most women do not fit the stereotypical ideal of tall, thin and lithe. Most women have curves.

It isn't really better though. It might seem better if you are one of the women who felt dinged before and now feel validated. But it doesn't put a stop to the idea that there is only one acceptable standard of beauty. It just changes the standard.

 

[Taso]

I have no idea if Javi has an eating disorder, but, from what I know about him, I assume he is thin because that is the way his body is in the same way some basketball players are tall because that is the way there bodies are. Javi's type of thinness is not at all unusual for a Spaniard of his age. Admittedly, I have seen more than a few men built like Javi in tight bullfighter outfits and speedos up and down the beaches of the east coast of Spain [/QUOTE]

I see what you are saying on some level, and his history of stomach issues, his parodying exhibiition on aerobics, his landings struggling moreso than anything the last few years makes me worry for him straight up. Male eating disorders are not talked about culturally almost at all and believe me they absolutely without any question exist, with many athletes. I get worried about Javi moreso than most other male skaters because of some of this evidence, and as a therapist who has worked with folks with many cross addictions there is something to be said when my fears are evoked - and I'm well aware of watching where that leads into projection.

 

[bardtoob]

...his parodying exhibiition on aerobics...

I wish he had not done that exhibition, not because of any weight implications, but because it fed into Anglophone stereotypes of Mediterranean and Latin men.

 

[Taso]

I wish he had not done that exhibition, not because of any weight implications, but because it fed into Anglophone stereotypes of Latin men.

I definitely can see what you are saying there

 

[Kasey]

To paraphrase a quote from Joan Ryan's book, one skater said that if she skated better at 105 pounds but her coach thought she looked better at 100 pounds, the coach wanted her to lose those five pounds.

I believe that skater was Kerrigan herself. Anyway, good for her, to be doing this documentary. More and more spotlighting of problems may help them to be addressed more.

And as someone who has been many varying weights in my adult life, real women all are different body types, and are beautiful!

 

[Erin]

Hmmm ... One other thing Tonya Harding showed was that a skater could do triples, including the Axel, without being thin..

I can't believe I am about to wade into this discussion, but by calling Tonya in that video "not thin", you are part of the problem.

 

[bardtoob]

I can't believe I am about to wade into this discussion, but by calling Tonya in that video "not thin", you are part of the problem.

How about "with curves" athletic and Olympic in stature, built to be higher, stronger, faster.

No waife like, but rather ready to save herself!

 

[Aerobicidal]

How about women don't get to have anyone--and certainly not men--decide what their body was "build to be."

Imagine that rhetoric being used to discuss bodies based on their race, ethnicity, or sexuality.

 

[Ohyes]

Its gotten worse now in some aspects because not only do you have coaches saying these things to female skaters but hate-filled trolls on social media calling perfectly healthy girls like Wakaba, Kaetlyn, and Madi fat and obese.

 

[Coco]

I remember back in January '93, my college roommates and I were watching Nationals on TV. The boys next door had come over and they were remarking on Tonya's "thunder thighs." When they left, one girl was like, 'god, if he thinks her thighs are big, what does he think about mine?' Made me cringe...

 

[judiz]

I remember watching gymnastics awhile ago and listening to the commentators remarking how heavy Luci Collins looked.