The Skating Lesson

[caitie]

Which skater was it that got blocked by TSL?

Not sure if he’s the one you mean but Matt Blackmer recently(ish) bragged about being blocked by TSL, and I noticed because quite a few skaters liked the tweet.

https://twitter.com/mattbmer/status/934946158560018432

 

[skatingguy]

I don't understand why there seem to be so many that hate watch TSL? If you don't like it, don't watch it.

Just as skaters shouldn't be reading this site, skaters shouldn't be watching TSL. TSL is a type of show that, while not common to figure skating, is common to numerous other professional sports. I don't think athletes in the NFL or NBA for example, are watching Pardon the Interruption which can also be savage when it comes to criticizing athletes. These shows are for fans looking for a more critical look at sports, and there are other shows, blogs, etc. that present a more positive perspective for those people who want that too.

 

[edwina]

I don't understand why there seem to be so many that hate watch TSL? If you don't like it, don't watch it.

Just as skaters shouldn't be reading this site, skaters shouldn't be watching TSL. TSL is a type of show that, while not common to figure skating, is common to numerous other professional sports. I don't think athletes in the NFL or NBA for example, are watching Pardon the Interruption which can also be savage when it comes to criticizing athletes. These shows are for fans looking for a more critical look at sports, and there are other shows, blogs, etc. that present a more positive perspective for those people who want that too.

I wouldn't watch a show that was "oh they all work so hard and are so nice and skate so great". I like critique, unnecessary meanness is of course unnecessary but most of the time TSL isn't mean.

 

[caitie]

I don't understand why there seem to be so many that hate watch TSL? If you don't like it, don't watch it.

Just as skaters shouldn't be reading this site, skaters shouldn't be watching TSL. TSL is a type of show that, while not common to figure skating, is common to numerous other professional sports. I don't think athletes in the NFL or NBA for example, are watching Pardon the Interruption which can also be savage when it comes to criticizing athletes. These shows are for fans looking for a more critical look at sports, and there are other shows, blogs, etc. that present a more positive perspective for those people who want that too.

I agree skaters should not watch TSL, but it’s not that clear cut. When Jenny was on board, TSL was much more ambitious. They were sponsored by a blade company, they had guests on regularly including reigning world champions, they were clearly trying to straddle the line between what they are now and a legit analysis show that wasn’t adverse to discussing gossip. With Jenny gone, it’s just Dave and his friends snarking and giving their opinions. Which is fine, but it’s definitely not what the show started out being.

Personally I miss the Jenny iteration of the show a lot. Ice Talk does not replace TSL, and other fan shows dont either because her expertise, their access to skaters, and the BTS gossip she and Dave would sometimes discuss really made that show for me. But I get she decided to move on and Dave will probably always be around discussing figure skating in some fashion.

 

[VGThuy]

I think if people who dislike TSL stop talking about it in here, then this thread would die pretty quickly. TSL has a dedicated following and kudos to the team for attracting those kind of people, but it's reputation has always been bigger than the actual viewership in size.

I do think it's hilarious when TSL or its supporters get bent out of shape when someone tags an actual skater to a comment or clip that they made. Sure skaters should probably not be watching it, but athletes and famous people get tagged all of the time and they pick and choose what they react to publicly. Also, if you're putting that negativity out there, then you run the risk of that skater or someone close to that skater finding out what you said about them. I put more onus on the person making the statement than another who is sharing it (maybe for messy reasons).

 

[caseyedwards]

I don't understand why there seem to be so many that hate watch TSL? If you don't like it, don't watch it.

Just as skaters shouldn't be reading this site, skaters shouldn't be watching TSL. TSL is a type of show that, while not common to figure skating, is common to numerous other professional sports. I don't think athletes in the NFL or NBA for example, are watching Pardon the Interruption which can also be savage when it comes to criticizing athletes. These shows are for fans looking for a more critical look at sports, and there are other shows, blogs, etc. that present a more positive perspective for those people who want that too.

So true! Delicate flowers of figure skating can’t handle pardon the interruption treatment but want to bemoan lack of popularity?!?

 

[muffinplus]

They just posted videos where Jenny/Dave break down the IJS? how old are these?

Also wonder what is the point of breaking anything down, when none of it is applied in practice anyways

 

[Tavi]

They just posted videos where Jenny/Dave break down the IJS? how old are these?

Also wonder what is the point of breaking anything down, when none of it is applied in practice anyways

Those videos were done around 2013, I think, and they’re actually excellent for a basic understanding of what the IJS is all about. They used to be up on their old website.

 

[muffinplus]

Those videos were done around 2013, I think, and they’re actually excellent for a basic understanding of what the IJS is all about. They used to be up on their old website.

Except IJS clearly is nothing about that. Because with exceptions, people have received high marks across PCS if they have a "reputation" or are a top skater, or if they have a very high technical score (for some reason) no matter how crappy their choreography or transitions are. I seriously doubt judges actually apply any of this in practice or understand what half of the legalese means.

 

[Tavi]

Except IJS clearly is nothing about that. Because with exceptions, people have received high marks across PCS if they have a "reputation" or are a top skater, or if they have a very high technical score (for some reason) no matter how crappy their choreography or transitions are. I seriously doubt judges actually apply any of this in practice or understand what half of the legalese means.

I watched them when I first started following skating and found them useful. I’m sorry if you don’t.

 

[muffinplus]

I watched them when I first started following skating and found them useful. I’m sorry if you don’t.

It's not that... it's just that I mean that it's nice in theory (actually I think it's overly complicated, i.e the criteria for choreography) but I think none /little of it is actually applied in practice if you look at how skaters with no choreography or minimum interpretation are judged

 

[thvu]

I wouldn't watch a show that was "oh they all work so hard and are so nice and skate so great". I like critique, unnecessary meanness is of course unnecessary but most of the time TSL isn't mean.

My biggest issue with them is that they’ll steal your content without permission, and then will block you when you call them out on it.

Their ethical standards are low to nonexistent, much like their journalistic standards. They operate on theft, gossip, and supposition. If that’s something you value and don’t consider “mean,” then you probably won’t be able to relate to those that do.

I think the fact that they lost all their sponsors says all one needs to know about the quality of their programming.

 

[skatingguy]

My biggest issue with them is that they’ll steal your content without permission, and then will block you when you call them out on it.

Their ethical standards are low to nonexistent, much like their journalistic standards. They operate on theft, gossip, and supposition. If that’s something you value and don’t consider “mean,” then you probably won’t be able to relate to those that do.

What you mean by 'steal your content without permission'? It's a video with two people talking, or an interview, and they will show clips of competition. What is it that they've stolen?

I think the fact that they lost all their sponsors says all one needs to know about the quality of their programming.

Well, I think the sponsors were there because of Jenny, and when she left they didn't continue the relationship with TSL. It was definitely a rocky transition, which is not uncommon if you watch any sort of talk show when host leaves and then you have to find chemistry and balance with someone new. I don't know any of these people personally so I only comment on what I see in the videos, and what people post here.

 

[MIsty Blades/Skate Mom]

I love TSL!
However, I don't agree with everything they say, and they are most definitely biased! They are still extremely entertaining in spite of their quirks!

I watched them when I first started following skating and found them useful. I’m sorry if you don’t.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

The reason TSL continues is because there are lots of people within the skating fandom that want exactly what Dave is serving. No matter how much some people want to pretend otherwise.

I think the real reason they continue is Dave at this point craves it like a vampire does blood. Even if nobody watched them, he would probably plod on anyway.

 

[Miki89]

TSL is entertaining and makes some good points. But I wouldn’t go to them to understand IJS or technical knowledge. I didn’t even think Jenny was that knowledgeable. She was a former skater and I don’t believe had much or any experience in coaching. I did appreciate the interviews they did with past skaters and coaches. I also like that they do occasionally pay tribute to the golden era of skating. I would compare them to a magazine like People—gossipy, entertaining, but not the most objective piece of analysis.

 

[Debbie S]

I enjoyed TSL when Jenny was involved and they did the interviews. Sometimes, the interviews went on a little too long, and I only watched the ones I was interested in, but for the most part I thought they were respectful and also much more thorough than the standard media interviews. But Dave started out as a gossip (i.e. Aunt Joyce), trying to feed his ego with attention for his outrageous comments, and that's clearly what he's trying to do with TSL now. Sure, there's an audience for it (just like there's an audience for Real Housewives and the Kardashians), but it's not journalism - there is nothing informative about it, it's his and his friends' views on skating, and that's fine if they want to broadcast their opinions on YouTube to people willing to listen. But what irritates me is the way he (and his followers) acts as if he is some sort of authority on technique, judging, whether a skater is really injured or not, when in fact he's really just talking out his arse. And bashing the skaters who beat/challenge his favorites and asserting any success they have is b/c of politiks or backroom deals (b/c they are the worst skaters ever). That's not what journalists do.

 

[Tavi]

TSL is entertaining and makes some good points. But I wouldn’t go to them to understand IJS or technical knowledge. I didn’t even think Jenny was that knowledgeable. She was a former skater and I don’t believe had much or any experience in coaching. I did appreciate the interviews they did with past skaters and coaches. I also like that they do occasionally pay tribute to the golden era of skating. I would compare them to a magazine like People—gossipy, entertaining, but not the most objective piece of analysis.

Have you actually watched any of TSL’s IJS series, or are you just condemning it out of hand based on your opinion of TSL? The series presents the information in a way that’s accessible for a beginner, and in fact, they created it both to help themselves learn, and to share it with others.

Did I always agree with their conclusions as to someone’s skating skills, etc? No. But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t worth watching. For the record, when I was trying to wrap my head around the IJS, I also watched the ISU’s series on YouTube, among other things. It’s much more comprehensive than what Jenny and Dave did, and I learned a lot. But IMO TSL did a good job with their series, too. YMMV.

 

[Miki89]

Um yes I did. What the said I could have done reading and analyzing the criteria myself. Besides, I didn’t mean their videos were not helpful at all. What I meant was I don’t consider them to be experts on skating technique. It’s a good source for getting updates, opinions, and gossip if you like that. But I wouldn’t say they are an authority on knowledge of the new judging system.

 

[StasiyaGalustyanLove]

My wife and I finally finished watching the Four Continents review video this afternoon! Wow, what an "experience" that was. We were so confused for many parts of it, and eventually my wife said that no one who wasn't a doctor would be able to answer our questions! That made me laugh.

I really liked the part where the two people were talking about the pillows in the Great Gatsby movie. The sheets and quilts caught my eye when my wife and I saw that at a movie theater in Albuquerque. Some day I would like to try my hands at interior decor!

 

[Seerek]

My biggest issue with them is that they’ll steal your content without permission, and then will block you when you call them out on it.

TSL certainly extracts video from several popular YouTube skating accounts for their "archive footage" (including some noteworthy posters here), integrated within their interviews with retired skaters or coaches/choreographers.

At least say "from YouTube user xyz" like the mainstream outlets do...

 

[Tavi]

Um yes I did. What the said I could have done reading and analyzing the criteria myself. Besides, I didn’t mean their videos were not helpful at all. What I meant was I don’t consider them to be experts on skating technique. It’s a good source for getting updates, opinions, and gossip if you like that. But I wouldn’t say they are an authority on knowledge of the new judging system.

I don’t think I or anyone else said TSL were an authority on the IJS or experts on skating technique. And yeah, I’m sure reading the criteria yourself could give you the same information - but frankly, that’s true of a lot of information we receive. Anyway, I don’t think it much matters.

 

[arakwafan2006]

So true! Delicate flowers of figure skating can’t handle pardon the interruption treatment but want to bemoan lack of popularity?!?

Wait; you think it has to be one or the other?

 

[VGThuy]

Wait; you think it has to be one or the other?

Not to mention that every time someone brings up how skaters get treated more delicately than other athletes, they fail to mention that fans of those athletes are much more vicious when responding to those pundits and journalists who wrote or said something they didn’t like. It goes both ways. So it’s not just the fans of the athletes being delicate and sensitive in this situation.

 

[arakwafan2006]

I would be willing to bet that if Dave could do it all over again, he wouldn’t have been so damn messy in terms of the scathing comments about skaters. John Wilson and MK were sponsors and they had other sponsorship, likely because of Jenny. Once the show was just a tacky and cruel mess, that changed.Also, at it's inception, it was the most popular newscast on this sport and unlike having to download podcasts, you could stream it from your computer. Dave’s lack of scruples though killed the sponsorship and probably the partnership with Jenny! Now, it’s merely watching Dave bitch and moan and drag Jonathan along with him( who seems to finally be aware that it's ok to disagree with Dave). Still, it’s the best game in town for the die hard fan's. It’s reached its peak though. Dave couldn’t keep his messy little mouth shut, name dropping skaters that confided in him. Now they don’t. I doubt that he’s welcome to most top rinks to do interviews like he used to. Tedd Flett however is cruising along. His recent interview with Shae Lynn, though super vanilla, i think i smiled the entire time and really fell in love with her all over again.

I watch because I don’t really have anyone to discuss the sport with and, it’s entertaining. I do feel badly for the coaches and skaters who really overlooked his weird ass ways and allowed him to get close to them, only to have their secrets told and witness him roast them alive in front of the TSL fan base. Short of having no self esteem, I don’t see how a skater or reputable coach in good conscience could be friends with him. It’s just sad because like theatre, quirks and idiosyncrasies are overlooked in skating. He burned some people though and believe me, they spread the word around.

I do often wonder if Dave even actually likes figure skating though. No one is really good enough for him. He doesn't contrast skaters areas of opportunity with their strength. He crucifies them. He doesn’t seem to understand that following an athlete MEANS watching them go through bad times.

 

[edwina]

Well I don't think gossip is inherently mean, unless it's mean gossip. I don't know anyone who doesn't gossip about stuff. So it's nice to know figure skating related gossip from people who have more knowledge of FS than myself, which doesn't take much anyway. I don't watch TSL for FS technical knowledge but for entertainment and I have a dark sense of humor. Haven't been watching it for long but so far haven't heard anything that people should get upset about- are there really any skaters that actually feel they've been discussed too meanly about, unlike in "real journalists" columns, which are often critical too, or do people just suppose they have? Or do performers only want to hear praise and nothing negative?

 

[caitie]

Here’s Matt Blackmer on TSL: “Half of his critiques are just plain mean. They don't come from a constructive place. Almost every elite skater would agree.” And his tweet about being banned from TSL was liked by multiple skaters from Eric Radford to Gracie Gold. So yeah they think he is too mean.

 

[thvu]

Well I don't think gossip is inherently mean, unless it's mean gossip. I don't know anyone who doesn't gossip about stuff. So it's nice to know figure skating related gossip from people who have more knowledge of FS than myself, which doesn't take much anyway. I don't watch TSL for FS technical knowledge but for entertainment and I have a dark sense of humor. Haven't been watching it for long but so far haven't heard anything that people should get upset about- are there really any skaters that actually feel they've been discussed too meanly about, unlike in "real journalists" columns, which are often critical too, or do people just suppose they have? Or do performers only want to hear praise and nothing negative?

I think relaying private gossip publicly, and thereby starting drama and increasing tension among competitors is mean and unprofessional. It's also a betrayal of trust. There's no reason Meagan Duhamel should have needed to defend herself against accusations that she referred to a competitor by a derogatory and sexist nickname, the veracity of which are irrelevant. It just goes to show that TSL has no scruples. They will betray anyone in a heartbeat for clicks and views.

 

[edwina]

I think relaying private gossip publicly, and thereby starting drama and increasing tension among competitors is mean and unprofessional. It's also a betrayal of trust. There's no reason Meagan Duhamel should have needed to defend herself against accusations that she refereed to a competitor by a derogatory and sexist nickname, the veracity of which are irrelevant. It just goes to show that TSL has no scruples. They will betray anyone in a heartbeat for clicks and views.

Here’s Matt Blackmer on TSL: “Half of his critiques are just plain mean. They don't come from a constructive place. Almost every elite skater would agree.” And his tweet about being banned from TSL was liked by multiple skaters from Eric Radford to Gracie Gold. So yeah they think he is too mean.

I see, well if this is the case then TSL should turn their criticism down a notch and think how to do it constructively. Even though I'm sure some skaters say as bad or worse things about un-friend competitors as anyone else, they of course usually want to keep it private..

 

[Miki89]

I don’t think I or anyone else said TSL were an authority on the IJS or experts on skating technique. And yeah, I’m sure reading the criteria yourself could give you the same information - but frankly, that’s true of a lot of information we receive. Anyway, I don’t think it much matters.

They occasionally provide analysis on skating techniques in their review videos, although less so since Jenny's departure. I am not hating on TSL. In fact, I believe Dave is truly passionate about figure skating. Though he might not be that knowledgeable in the technical aspects, he has a deep knowledge of skating history and an appreciation of skating aesthetics. He truly shines when he is giving his opinions on the latter two but tend to be a little out of his depth when trying to give analysis on the former. Skating has very few news/opinion outlets so I appreciate the ones we do have.