IOC's decision: (clean) Russian athletes can compete under neutral flag at PyeongChang Olympics

[VGThuy]

The athletes do have appeal rights that they are using. Heartsick for Stolbova and Bukin, and so angry at the Russian government for leaving this state-sponsored doping unaddressed so that it got to this point.

And we can't lose sight over what started it all. The state-sponsored doping was so egregious and widespread that something drastic had to be done. I'm waiting until the complete list is provided and if no explanations are provided (or ones I feel are sufficient to explain the ban) then I will join those who don't feel like this process was done in the best manner. I think if you're NOT going to do a complete blanket ban, than one shouldn't do one in practice and if you're going to not allow an athlete to compete then there should be a real reason and one that the athlete or federations did. Not something like the IOC's designated testing body ran out of time to fully test the athletes randomly within the time frame the IOC created or whatever because that is not the fault of the athlete or sporting federation.

 

[Meoima]

I understand there might be some doubt about Ksenia but Bukin???? He wasn’t even at Sochi. What happened? This is so weird.

 

[Vagabond]

but it is so wrong. So if suddenly I say that I watched to Nathan consuming drugs, they won´t invite him until someone make an investigation to prove his innocence?

Hello? Please look at the thread title. The IOC has applied special rules to permit approved athletes from Russia to compete as OAR instead of completely banning them and the Russian Federation.

Nathan Chen isn't Russian; the regular rules applicable to all non-Russian athletes apply to him.

 

[her grace]

Doesn't that go both ways? Until you know what the evidence is, you are assuming that the evidence is thin or that the decision is political.

If they had strong evidence of doping--sufficient for a suspension or ban--then they should have already been suspended or banned from competition. Or if WADA/IOC just figured out that they have strong evidence, then a suspension or ban for all competitions should be forthcoming. Lacking that, yes, it seems that the evidence is not strong.

 

[Carolla5501]

This is now a witch hunt to reduce competition, this has nothing to with doping now.
disgusting and shameful

And you know it's a witch hunt how???

Or did it become a witch hunt when it impacted athletes you like?

Sorry, but I expect it's not a witch hunt and that there are reasons. The IOC has no real desire to keep athletes out, otherwise they wouldn't have come up with this bizarre OAR idea. They would have just banned everyone!

 

[Carolla5501]

I understand there might be some doubt about Ksenia but Bukin???? He wasn’t even at Sochi. What happened? This is so weird.

I don't think you had to be at Sochi to be implicated. They never said anything about only caring about athletes who were at the last games, the rules applied to ALL athletes who want to go to these games. Sochi participation is not relevant except in that it's where the actions got so out of hand the "story" started to unravel.

Remember is the "proven clean" part. Ina/Zimmerman got suspended because of that, they never failed a drug test she just refused to take one. So for example, if one of these skaters "refused" that could easily be the reason you can't be "proven clean" (if you don't test you won't be proven clean)

I am also not sure where this "we have a right to know" is coming from. The athlete has a right to know, probably the governing body for the sport, but.... do we really have a right to know and judge? I am just not sure, it's not a "court conviction" so the athlete might have the 'right' to keep what happened private and not have million of "internet experts" second guessing their actions.

 

[caseyedwards]

And you know it's a witch hunt how???

Or did it become a witch hunt when it impacted athletes you like?

Sorry, but I expect it's not a witch hunt and that there are reasons. The IOC has no real desire to keep athletes out, otherwise they wouldn't have come up with this bizarre OAR idea. They would have just banned everyone!

Russia does provide a lot of money to IOC but also wants to please US Germany Canada so they ban Russia symbols but not Russians to please Russia but then ban most of the best Russians making Germany US Canada happy

 

[skategal]

Remember is the "proven clean" part. Ina/Zimmerman got suspended because of that, they never failed a drug test she just refused to take one. So for example, if one of these skaters "refused" that could easily be the reason you can't be "proven clean" (if you don't test you won't be proven clean)

Ina/Zimmerman was the first thing I thought of when I heard about this.

 

[oleada]

^^^ I thought if that too but wouldn’t they have been banned already? They have been competing internationally for a long time, seemingly without issue.

 

[BlueRidge]

Russia does provide a lot of money to IOC but also wants to please US Germany Canada so they ban Russia symbols but not Russians to please Russia but then ban most of the best Russians making Germany US Canada happy

This absolutely! Now that Stolbova is banned the US will win gold in pairs!!!!!!!

 

[Jayar]

I get that a lot of people think that this is unfair, but we really don't have the facts. I'm interested in hearing from the folks here on the board who have a legal background and have been following this. What does this really mean? Are the athletes on this list out for sure?

FWIW, I am American, and I want the best CLEAN athletes in Pyeongchang. I do not want to see medals reallocated 10 years from now. I do not want scandals during the Games. I want clean, fair, and fierce competition. And if a Russian comes out on top, I will celebrate their victory. For me, even if there is national pride for American athletes doing well, I can see past that to see what the Olympic movement really is about. It's about the world coming together to cheer on athletes from all corners of the globe... regardless of any political issues. And by the way, if there are American athletes cheating (and I am sure that there are some), I want them to be caught and banned. Bring on the Opening Ceremony, and let the competition begin!

 

[BlueRidge]

What information does anyone have on the non-figure skating athletes who are banned or not invited or whatever this status is? Is any more known about them to suggest why they would be banned?

 

[caseyedwards]

This absolutely! Now that Stolbova is banned the US will win gold in pairs!!!!!!!

Sure pick the one country that doesn’t benefit from Russian pair skater ban

 

[BlueRidge]

Sure pick the one country that doesn’t benefit from Russian pair skater ban

Tarasova and Morosov are the top Russian pairs team and they will be competing. Stolbova was no guarantee for the podium, and Bukin was surely not in the running. Do we all have to run around like idiots with our heads chopped off here?

 

[caseyedwards]

Tarasova and Morosov are the top Russian pairs team and they will be competing. Stolbova was no guarantee for the podium, and Bukin was surely not in the running. Do we all have to run around like idiots with our heads chopped off here?

S/b was supposed to replace b/s and now that team is finished. History. Never to compete again.

 

[BlueRidge]

S/b was supposed to replace b/s and now that team is finished. History. Never to compete again.

Never, never, never!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Elkmaria]

What information does anyone have on the non-figure skating athletes who are banned or not invited or whatever this status is? Is any more known about them to suggest why they would be banned?

All Russian media keep quoting IOC's statement that has already been mentioned here. The ban is not necessarily related to doping and in some cases it is not meant to cast a shadow on the athlete's integrity. The Russians plan on re-submitting the list and persuading the IOC to reconsider its decision.
Now it all seems a huge mess. If Stolbova is guilty of doping, why does she keep her Sochi medals unlike the athletes that have been proven to dope? What does Bukin have to do with that? Waiting for the explanation...
I'm actually devastated. My favourite pairs and dance teams do not get to go to the Olympics. Sure, they were not among the contenders for the individual gold, and S/B are not even in the position to fight for the individual podium, but they could still easily win gold in the team event.

 

[rfisher]

This absolutely! Now that Stolbova is banned the US will win gold in pairs!!!!!!!

You made me snort tea up my nose.

 

[BlueRidge]

All Russian media keep quoting IOC's statement that has already been mentioned here. The ban is not necessarily related to doping and in some cases it is not meant to cast a shadow on the athlete's integrity. The Russians plan on re-submitting the list and persuading the IOC to reconsider its decision.
Now it all seems a huge mess. If Stolbova is guilty of doping, why does she keep her Sochi medals unlike the athletes that have been proven to dope? What does Bukin have to do with that? Waiting for the explanation...
I'm actually devastated. My favourite pairs and dance teams do not get to go to the Olympics. Sure, they were not among the contenders for the individual gold, and S/B are not even in the position to fight for the individual podium, but they could still easily win gold in the team event.

I really hope there is opportunity to change the decision. I have wondered if IOC is just trying to show some muscle or something like that, but they may be susceptible to pressure to back down.

 

[Winnipeg]

What an unfortunate mess. However, there must be consequences if an athlete is found to have cheated according to whatever criteria the IOC have in place.

 

[VGThuy]

I think what CE meant to say is that they got rid of Stolbova for Germany and Canada's sake, and Bukin for the U.S. and maybe Canada (G/P and W/P)'s sake. I still think there were bigger fish to fry if that was the case.

 

[Tinami Amori]

(of all the days today is had to be my crazy work day)... So, very quickly, i have some info. Don't panic, it is not as bad is it sounds in the press.

Stolbova, Bukin, plus few others, have not been "banned/rejected". At present, they are not included in the Main List of Invitations. The original list submitted by Russian side and recently returned by IOC with comments next to name in question, did not include Stolbova, Bukin. As well, Rodchenkov specifically mentioned "skaters not involved".

At this point the RFSF (and other Feds, but we're here for skating) considered the situation to be either an admin. or data base error, or that these name are under further review. "Not included" does not mean "rejected" at this point, since there are more names to consider after CAS hearing.

Partial statement from IOC including Fourneyron's:

"By carefully looking at all the evidence available we wanted to be absolutely certain that there was not the slightest doubt or suspicion against any of those athletes who will be invited," said Valerie Fourneyron, who chairs the IOC panel which decides which Russians can compete.

"Not being included on the invitation list does not necessarily mean that an athlete has been doped - it should not automatically cast doubt on their integrity. The IOC would like to make clear that there may still be further enquires and further anti-doping procedures coming up against a number of those athletes who have not been included on the pool of athletes considered for invitation."

(there is more to it, but later). and don't freak out, sorry for people Bukin and Stolbova, but if we look honestly they were not getting medals. (and i Love Ksenya, so don't take it wrong).

 

[Winnipeg]

You made me snort tea up my nose.

I think the poster who said that about US winning gold in pairs was being facetious.

 

[rfisher]

I think what CE meant to say is that they got rid of Stolbova for Germany and Canada's sake, and Bukin for the U.S. and maybe Canada (G/P and W/P)'s sake. I still think there were bigger fish to fry if that was the case.

Right. Ok, I feel better now, because that's utterly ridiculous.

 

[MAXSwagg]

It’s clear Canada will be happy about this. They’ve also been propagating this “conspiracy” against V/M that they’re being cheated (like they did in Sochi, btw).

 

[rfisher]

I think the poster who said that about US winning gold in pairs was being facetious.

I know she was. Ergo, the reason I was laughing.

 

[BlueRidge]

I think the poster who said that about US winning gold in pairs was being facetious.

You are going to have @rfisher snorting more tea up her nose.

 

[BlueRidge]

I know she was. Ergo, the reason I was laughing.

But ... but... Knierems will WIN!!!!

 

[Winnipeg]

It’s clear Canada will be happy about this. They’ve also been propagating this “conspiracy” against V/M that they’re being cheated (like they did in Sochi, btw).

Isn't there?

 

[StasiyaGalustyanLove]

This is turning out to be a crazy Olympics! First I was sad because my favorite skater didn't qualify for a spot, and now there is going to be so much controversy about who is going from Russia. May be some of the biggest Russian fans - whether they live in Europe or America - will even boycott the games.

I'm not sure if this officially qualifies as a witch hunt, though. It's arguable. Somebody should ask Maya Usova as if I remember right she is an expert on witches.