Virtue, Moir hope revamped programs will lift them to Olympic gold

[cocotaffy]

Why do we have to quote him everytime though ? He's not responsible for P/C abilities to skate like that, is he ?

I think @skatingguy was being ironic here though making actual fun of all those allegations of Didier being behind P/C's successful season so far.

 

[Anyasnake]

I think @skatingguy was being ironic here though making actual fun of all those allegations of Didier being behind P/C's successful season so far.

Oopsies. If so, @skatingguy , I apologize ! I've seen these false excuses everywhere on twitter I thought you were going with it.

 

[MsZem]

Oopsies. If so, @skatingguy , I apologize ! I've seen these false excuses everywhere on twitter I thought you were going with it.

Though there really are posters here who believe that P/C's success has been bought and paid for.

 

[Anyasnake]

Though there really are posters here who believe that P/C's success has been bought and paid for.

Oh I know, it's ridiculous. They said the same things about Meryl & Charlie (not just at the Olympics), they have these specific points they repeat all the time : "Nowhere near in PCS","Junior lifts", "Poor Skating Skills","Such an easy program", "Gabriella doesn't know how to skate" (replace Gaby with Meryl and it works for 4 years ago). And of course "ISU is corrupt".
We should do a bingo for the Olympics. Bonus point if you are watching CBC and Carol Lane is commentating.

 

[Debrah]

I think V/M will sizzle and bring it emotionally, etc., and likely do the most difficulty come O' games. They know how to peak at right time, have lots of experience, so I would not count them out. V/M also have a fab body of work with more diversity, certainly more than the French who seem to be best only in showcasing lyrical movement. We will expect a great show down at the O'games, not only from top 2 but I am sure W/P, H/D, Shibs, C/L C/B & B/S will also have something to say in who will go home with medals...

 

[allezfred]

V/M also have a fab body of work with more diversity

What has having "a fab body of work with more diversity" got to do with who will win Olympic gold?

 

[Anyasnake]

What has having "a fab body of work with more diversity" got to do with who will win Olympic gold?

I hate this expression since last weekend. Never heard it before. Cannot unsee it now. Hashtag US Nationals.

 

[mackiecat]

Holy cow! I love the the changes and I love how Scott sang along with the song during their practice

 

[Anyasnake]

V/M FD practice :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJtYpXOSYvw
Thoughts people ? The music is drastically different !

 

[Quadjump]

They changed the final section. Now it is more classic. They got rid of the long section where she was going to die.

 

[skatingguy]

Why do we have to quote him everytime though ? He's not responsible for P/C abilities to skate like that, is he ?

I feel very sorry for people who can watch skaters as talented as Papadakis and Cizeron and believe that their success is due to bribery.

I think @skatingguy was being ironic here though making actual fun of all those allegations of Didier being behind P/C's successful season so far.

Yes, I guess the winking smiley was not enough.

Oopsies. If so, @skatingguy , I apologize ! I've seen these false excuses everywhere on twitter I thought you were going with it.

No worries.

Though there really are posters here who believe that P/C's success has been bought and paid for.

Not sure, check the Trash Can fan thread for Virtue/Moir. There were some Virtue/Moir fans that were tweeting at a judge, and those tweets were then referred to the police.

Oh I know, it's ridiculous. They said the same things about Meryl & Charlie (not just at the Olympics), they have these specific points they repeat all the time : "Nowhere near in PCS","Junior lifts", "Poor Skating Skills","Such an easy program", "Gabriella doesn't know how to skate" (replace Gaby with Meryl and it works for 4 years ago). And of course "ISU is corrupt".
We should do a bingo for the Olympics. Bonus point if you are watching CBC and Carol Lane is commentating.

There were some stories about the results being set before the Olympics in 2014. Davis/White had the superior programs and had been skating foot perfect for a number of years and the judges were rewarding them for that consistency (similarly to Medvedeva in the past two years). There are always stories in the lead up to, and after math of the Olympics that look for ways to explain the results when they don't go the way a particular skater/coach/country/fan wanted. I don't believe they had any merit regarding 2014 and I don't think it now. Some of the criticisms that you mentioned of Papadakis/Cizeron I think are valid - for example, there programs are simpler than Virtue/Moir's, so there's an argument that their choreography mark should be lower, but with Virtue/Moir having a weaker program (to this point of the season) it sort of washes out. The truth of the matter is these two teams are separated by fractions of a point on every element/component and it's going to come down to fewest mistakes and then who the judges prefer. If there was any thing in the scores from the Grand Prix Final that I would quibble with it's the scores from the French judge giving as large as a lead to Papadakis/Cizeron over Virtue/Moir in the PCS. It was about a 2 point difference and I just can't justify that kind of spread between these two teams.

 

[Anyasnake]

@skatingguy Once again I'm very sorry

But you see I don't see where their program is "simpler" even technically speaking. Because of things like acrobatic lifts ?
In terms of step sequences, everything is designed level 4. Spins, twizzles, etc, too. Even though some people HATE when I say this, P/C make it look very easy. Because if it was that easy, why wouldn't everyone do the same ?

Choreo is about the whole piece, being cohesive, the dancing through the program and not just intricate steps for the sake of it - yes to this if it does fit the choreo. Difficulty should not be seen or at least, be as hidden as possible, "seamlessness" whether you have a program asking for sharpness or lightness. And this why I think the judges at GPF send a strong message to V/M in Transitions and Composition (where there was the difference) : the Step sequences where too busy and it came across as stuffed, bordeline frantic. Basically : "rework your program".
I just watched their practice and the Steps are much better, much more seamlessness, so that's a bonus. So you can make the program breathe without lowering difficulty.
Now, if the judges are sold it will come down to those fraction of points just like you said. I think in any case, it will come down to this. No mistakes allowed

 

[skatingguy]

But you see I don't see where their program is "simpler" even technically speaking. Because of things like acrobatic lifts ?In terms of step sequences, everything is designed level 4. Spins, twizzles, etc, too.

I would start by separating elements from the choreography of the program - not that they're not related, just that it's choreography between the elements and the connecting steps that I'm referring to when I say that Papadakis/Cizeron's program is simpler.

Even though some people HATE when I say this, P/C make it look very easy. Because if it was that easy, why wouldn't everyone do the same ?

I think the answer that question is pretty simple (ironically), it's that most teams are not good enough to do what the French do. The French movement on the ice is so smooth that they can take a simple move and make it look good in a way that other teams cannot and because of that every moment of the program is important and accentuated. To my way of thinking it's not necessarily better or worse then Virtue/Moir's style of movement, it's just different. But this is also a sport which means that we're supposed to attempt to quantify differences in difficulty, and award increased difficulty with higher scores.

 

[Anyasnake]

I would start by separating elements from the choreography of the program - not that they're not related, just that it's choreography between the elements and the connecting steps that I'm referring to when I say that Papadakis/Cizeron's program is simpler.

I think the answer that question is pretty simple (ironically), it's that most teams are not good enough to do what the French do. The French movement on the ice is so smooth that they can take a simple move and make it look good in a way that other teams cannot and because of that every moment of the program is important and accentuated. To my way of thinking it's not necessarily better or worse then Virtue/Moir's style of movement, it's just different. But this is also a sport which means that we're supposed to attempt to quantify differences in difficulty, and award increased difficulty with higher scores.

The element/TES is where the French got the difference as of now. If we're talking between the element, P/C are more open while V/M are more 2-foot skating but we have to see the entire changes this Saturday. I think, barring the subjective aspect of it (as it should not be involved even though it does ), both have actually quite the choreo matching their FDs, especially in their upper-bodies (I think that's why there is a difference in PCS between those 2 teams and some skaters from the rest of the field).
But like I said, I want to see the entire FD. And maybe, P/C will tweak some things, who knows.

 

[Aussie Willy]

I think if P&C were not in the competition, V&M wouldn't have to do a thing to their program. But P&C are and unless they have a major stuff up at the Olympics, V&M will have to take the silver. P&C are just sublime.

 

[skatingguy]

I think if P&C were not in the competition, V&M wouldn't have to do a thing to their program. But P&C are and unless they have a major stuff up at the Olympics, V&M will have to take the silver. P&C are just sublime.

I think you could switch the names in your post and it would be (almost) equally true.

 

[muffinplus]

Not a fan of the changed ending to be honest. Hopefully it looks better in competition

 

[casken]

It's funny, V&M's FD was exactly what I expected it to be when it debuted, *except* for the softer ending. That was a surprise.

Now it's the program I expected. Success?

 

[Polaris]

Why does Tessa's dress look like Gabi's?

 

[binbinwinwin]

But who doesn't design their step sequences to be a level 4? Their spins? Don't tell me anyone at the top is purposely choreographing a level 2 or 3. Top teams should always be pushing the envelope. When I think of "make it look easy but others can't do it" I think of D/W's one foot hop into their super fast twizzles. The hop has a similar weight positioning to a counter and is really, such a great little detail and difficult entrance. V/M fans got mad at them for always doing the same twizzles but it was such a great trademark. There is such thing as designing an easier level 4 element and a harder level 4 element.

V/M spaced out their step sequences more and they always looked more dense because V/M don't really wide step. The "2 foot skating" you're speaking of is them bringing their feet together a lot in between in their steps and turns. This is much harder to do because it requires more control and really good skating skills to maintain any flow to continue from turn to turn rather than straight up stepping and pushing yourself into the next one. When learning ice dancing, making your feet tidier and minimizing wide stepping is essential. P/C wide steps more, it's more open and they have more side by side skating. Yes they're very beautiful and they have their own captivating style of movement but saying that their program is not simpler than V/M's is kind of ridiculous. There was no side by side skating for any of the required turns but now it seems that V/M has changed their twizzles in the step sequences to be side by side and to give themselves more space to make it flow better.

I'm not sure how I feel about the new program because it's only practice, I understand the more dramatic ending is good for an audience but I find the cut to the duet in Come What May pretty abrupt. I don't really like Ewan McGregor's singing (or him at all) but adding in Nicole Kidman's singing is just blah. I guess we shall see when competition comes.

 

[chapis]

yes, let's not pretend that all L4 are equally difficult. I am not discussing if they deserve or not the points, I am just saying that there are Level 4 elements that are more difficult than others that also meet the requirements for a level 4.

 

[skatingguy]

Why does Tessa's dress look like Gabi's?

Hoping the judges get confused?

 

[kittysk8ts]

Why does Tessa's dress look like Gabi's?

She's been wearing that practice dress since September so I am sure it is a coincidence. Plus the colour and cut are different.

 

[cocotaffy]

Hoping the judges get confused?

You're on a roll in this thread

 

[sap5]

Why does Tessa's dress look like Gabi's?

Because all blue dresses look the same to you.

 

[vesperholly]

Not a fan of the changed ending to be honest. Hopefully it looks better in competition

I'm not either. I actually quite liked the choreography of her falling and him catching her as she dies - it really did "tell the story". The problem to me was that originally, the music ended on a weird up note, almost like when people ask a question. They changed it to a down note for GPF and it was much better.

 

[kittysk8ts]

I'm not either. I actually quite liked the choreography of her falling and him catching her as she dies - it really did "tell the story". The problem to me was that originally, the music ended on a weird up note, almost like when people ask a question. They changed it to a down note for GPF and it was much better.

I miss the "demise" section as well but that new stationary lift at the end makes up for it (for me). Glorious. And I hated that down note at GPF so all things considered I am personally pleased. Lucky me!

 

[sap5]

I feel like the original MR had several beautiful pieces of choreography in it, but the pieces didn't link together so the program as a whole appeared disjointed. This new edit seems to be doing a better job of cohesiveness, but we'll know better by Sunday.

 

[chapis]

The original and new program in the same video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiQDGVUpobo

 

[barbarafan]

Hoping the judges get confused?

she had her practice dress in a few colours..One the same blue as Gabby's. People did not like her FD dress & loved her workout dresses. Her real costume has similar lines to the practice dress.. But it is Tessa ..so for the FD there may be a dress we have never seen..