Ashley Wagner Cheer Thread #3: The Subject of Tonight's Lecture...

[chapis]

Well, given that at the Oly there will be 3 russian ladies, 3 Japanese, 1 Canadian, and 1 Italian (I'm sure I forgetting smb else also) stronger than Ashley. There will be almost zero chances for her to come back after a bad SP, as she usually does. Bradie is not going to get those PCS internationally. But maybe they can rely on her more for a stronger Tech. content and be more competitive. And Ashley had a bad year this season.
Honestly, I do not think she was underscored here. She certainly wasn't pushed though.

only 2 Japanese ladies (Satoko and Kaori)

 

[Amantide]

only 2 Japanese ladies (Satoko and Kaori)

WTH?! Why just 2? What am I missing?

 

[chapis]

WTH?! Why just 2? What am I missing?

Satoko was injured and she skipped Worlds 2017, Wakaba, Mai and Rika could not get that 3rd spot http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/wc2017/CAT002RS.HTM

 

[Fiero425]

WTH? Why just 2? What am I missing?

If you look at the results from Worlds in 2017, Japan had some difficulties in the ladies' event! Only Mai Mihara was in the top 10; 2 others #11 & 16! If going by the system I know, the top 2 have to be under 13! Chen & Wagner were 5 and 7 respectively; hence Wagner being a little bent out of shape! She figures she gave us 3 entries & none of them w/b her!

 

[Amantide]

If you look at the results from Worlds in 2017, Japan had some difficulties in the ladies' event! Only Mai Mihara was in the top 10; 2 others #11 & 16! If going by the system I know, the top 2 have to be in 13! Chen and Wagner were 5 and 7 respectively; hence Wagner being a little bent out of shape! She figures she gave us 3 entries & none of them w/b her!

Satoko was injured and she skipped Worlds 2017, Wakaba, Mai and Rika could not get that 3rd spot http://www.isuresults.com/results/season1617/wc2017/CAT002RS.HTM

Oh hell. I was soo past Worlds 2017 that I totally forgot that. Damn! What a pity.

 

[Fiero425]

Oh hell. I was soo past Worlds 2017 that I totally forgot that. Damn! What a pity.

I think the same thing happened to the USA men 10 years ago where Johnny Weir was the lone winner of a medal, taking bronze @ '08 Worlds! Abbot & Carriere flaked out of the top 10! The following year Weir was injured during Nat'ls, but since he skated, he wasn't given any consideration like they did for Wagner in 2014! This is one reason I can't stand the USFSA; such hypocrites and politicians behind the scene!

 

[Amantide]

I think the same thing happened to the USA men 10 years ago where Johnny Weir was the lone winner of a medal, taking bronze at '08 Worlds! The following year he was injured during Nat'ls, but since he skated, he wasn't given any consideration like they did for Wagner in 2014! This is one reason I can't stand the USFSA; such hypocrites and politicians behind the scene!

Well, they all have politics going on behind the door tbh. It just seems that USFSA is a bit messy about it. lol

 

[Sylvia]

Ashley tweeted today:

As an athlete, I'm allowed to be mad. As a senior competitor with over 10 years of experience, I'm allowed to question things. At the end of the day, I laid out my best and I'm going home proud! Congrats to the lovely ladies of the team, you've got me in your cheering squad now!

Lastly Twitter, before you eat me alive, don't forget there is a real person on the other end of your tweets. [heart emoji]

ETA: Just a friendly reminder that this is Ashley's CHEER thread for FANS of Ashley.

 

[BlueRidge]

Ashley tweeted today:

Yay Ashley! Glad she said that. I'm one who gets irrational in the heat of the moment myself, so I'm not interested in frying Ashley. Well also because I'm her fan, and I've found her an inspiration in many ways for years, despite her occasional statements that are less than desirable.

I'm disappointed mostly about not seeing the la la land program again, I really liked that!

 

[Amantide]

That's a good gesture. Especially the support given to the other ladies of the team.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

USFSA was sending such strong messages to her when the judges lowballed her on PCS. I don't know what is up with the USFSA and their agenda every single year.

I agree they were for sure sending her a message..

But I keep thinking did they go to all the judges and say be conservative with her PCS marks? Or how did they accomplish that????

I still keep thinking about it...

I guess the last impression USFSA has of her is perhaps embarrassing them and withdrawing in the middle of the free skate at home turf SkAm.

They ensured she got the 2 assignments she wanted SC and SkAm so she doesn't have to travel anywhere... She doesn't do Bs and she refuses 4CC. Maybe they thought it was time to reward younger skaters and skaters who haven't had many chances at Olys and Worlds?

Im depressed.

And Ash HAS NEVER looked better or appeared more fit......

I need an @Karpenko hug! BTW where the heck has he been????

 

[smarts1]

I agree they were for sure sending her a message..

But I keep thinking did they go to all the judges and say be conservative with her PCS marks? Or how did they accomplish that????

I still keep thinking about it...

I guess the last impression USFSA has of her is perhaps embarrassing them and withdrawing in the middle of the free skate at home turf SkAm.

They ensured she got the 2 assignments she wanted SC and SkAm so she doesn't have to travel anywhere... She doesn't do Bs and she refuses 4CC. Maybe they thought it was time to reward younger skaters and skaters who haven't had many chances at Olys and Worlds?

Im depressed.

And Ash HAS NEVER looked better or appeared more fit......

I need an @Karpenko hug! BTW where the heck has he been????

We never really know what happens behind the scenes with the judges and USFSA skating officials. But if anything, it's been evident time and time again that there's some stuff that happens behind the scenes when it comes to the judging at Nationals.

There's an interesting analysis of scores for each judge and their qualifications for these Nationals (https://twitter.com/SkatingProtocol)... What I found most interesting was that the judges who were harshest with Ashley on PCS happened to also be ISU certified-- which is weird given the discrepancy between her scores internationally and at these national championships.

Another interesting aspect about the judging last night is that the technical panel appeared to be trying as hard as they could to prop Ashley up to third while being very harsh on Karen's jump rotations, while the judges didn't go with it...

 

[Vash01]

My only complaint is that Bradie's pcs were so much higher than Ashley's (and a few other skaters too). So if Ashley complained about that, there was at least some justification in it.

 

[artsciboy]

It's time to move onto the new and sometimes the old has to be set aside first maybe if Ashley didn't spend 3 Olympic Nationals putting herself behind the 8 ball in the SP she would be a two time Olympian but at least be a gracious loser.

That fact is that Ashley has been nothing but gracious to the 3 who made the team and in respect of their performances. She has every right, however, to call out the judges for blatantly undermarking her on her PCS relative to the other skaters - when the others all received inflated PCS relative to their international PCS (which were all substantially behind Ashley's by the way) and Ashley did not receive a bump at Nationals of all places, that's shady. The judges should be called out and have to account for that. Why hold this competition in the first place if the judges weren't going to mark fairly? Why not just say out with the old and in with the new, Ashley, so don't bother competing. If the others received PCS bumps, then Ashley should have gotten one also. That's what was horrifically embarrassing about the judges. I am deeply, deeply ashamed for those judges.

 

[Fiero425]

That fact is that Ashley has been nothing but gracious to the 3 who made the team and in respect of their performances. She has every right, however, to call out the judges for blatantly undermarking her on her PCS relative to the other skaters - when the others all received inflated PCS relative to their international PCS (which were all substantially behind Ashley's by the way) and Ashley did not receive a bump at Nationals of all places, that's shady. The judges should be called out and have to account for that. Why hold this competition in the first place if the judges weren't going to mark fairly? Why not just say out with the old and in with the new Ashley, so don't bother competing. If the others received PCS bumps, then Ashley should have gotten one also. That's what was horrifically embarrassing about the judges. I am deeply, deeply ashamed for those judges.

Wow, like Ashley's never been given elevated PCS scores or consideration! It continues to be a real racket behind the scenes! Figure skating will always be one of the shadiest sports due to judges and FS assoc.!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

She has every right, however, to call out the judges for blatantly undermarking her on her PCS relative to the other skaters - when the others all received inflated PCS relative to their international PCS (which were all substantially behind Ashley's by the way) and Ashley did not receive a bump at Nationals of all places, that's shady. The judges should be called out and have to account for that. Why hold this competition in the first place if the judges weren't going to mark fairly?

SO TRUE! Now all of a sudden they bestow upon her her worst PCS scores.. Its still too much secrecy..WHy? Tell me... show me where her choreo and interpretation were the same as Bradie. Show me how Karen interpreted that Tango even better than LAST YEAR????? child please....

Even Johnny said... in pairs.. was it K&O? where they clearly had a UR but judges ignored it.. And Johnny said "well if they are gonna assign URs then it needs to be across the boards. This is another example why skating is losing its fan base."

Id love to be shown how Ashleys Interpretation and choreo and transitions were weaker than last year and weaker than Karen, and TIED with Bradie.... show me...so I can learn this sport ... and want to be its fan.......

I felt Ashley's LaLaLand dream (and I despise this movie). Did I feel Karen's tango? Well, kinda... a bit...

But Ashley transported me to this whimsical dream right from her beginning pose.

 

[Edgecase]

Why hold this competition in the first place if the judges weren't going to mark fairly? Why not just say out with the old and in with the new, Ashley, so don't bother competing. If the others received PCS bumps, then Ashley should have gotten one also. That's what was horrifically embarrassing about the judges. I am deeply, deeply ashamed for those judges.

I personally have had issues with judging at US Nationals as a whole for several years now; whether it comes to correct technical calling or PCS issues or whatever. I don't know but I feel like if USFS wants to see changes in the state of ladies' figure skating in the US, it needs to look at itself and its judges first.

In the case of Ashley the red flag for me about the PCS at Nationals is that she was awarded higher PCS (at least for the SP) internationally than at Nats with programs that were arguably less good. So yes, to me her lower PCS seems like an affront to Ashley from US judges, which is just not cool.

 

[jenniferlyon]

My only complaint is that Bradie's pcs were so much higher than Ashley's (and a few other skaters too). So if Ashley complained about that, there was at least some justification in it.

That Cinderella program... UGH! I just can't!

 

[tylersf]

With all the convo around Ashley not making the team, I just hope that someone doesn't go out there and injure the girls who made the Olympic squad.

 

[PDilemma]

That Cinderella program... UGH! I just can't!

Me to my mother this morning: "Maybe next year she can get green over the boot tights and skate to "The Little Mermaid".

 

[PDilemma]

With all the convo around Ashley not making the team, I just hope that someone doesn't go out there and injure the girls who made the Olympic squad.

Fortunately, Ashley doesn't have any trashy ex-husbands.

 

[tylersf]

ROLFMAO!!!!!!!

Fortunately, Ashley doesn't have any trashy ex-husbands.

 

[screech]

Well, given that at the Oly there will be 3 russian ladies, 3 Japanese, 1 Canadian, and 1 Italian (I'm sure I forgetting smb else also) stronger than Ashley. There will be almost zero chances for her to come back after a bad SP, as she usually does. Bradie is not going to get those PCS internationally. But maybe they can rely on her more for a stronger Tech. content and be more competitive. And Ashley had a bad year this season.
Honestly, I do not think she was underscored here. She certainly wasn't pushed though.

There'll be 3 Canadian ladies at the Olympics, not 1 (Katelyn and Gabby came 2 and 3 at Worlds)

 

[Fiero425]

With all the convo around Ashley not making the team, I just hope that someone doesn't go out there and injure the girls who made the Olympic squad.

Anything's possible in this world! After Monica Seles was stabbed in the back in Germany in '93, I wouldn't put anything past some rabid fan! Most skaters have large entourages, so hopefully they won't fret too much about their safety!

 

[tylersf]

I think Ashley, Johnny, Tara, Adam & Jason should be on a sitcom together about figure skating. Maybe they can call it, "As the Blades Spin" or something like that. They can have other figure skaters on as guests. Here are some ideas for episodes:

• Johnny starts a new fashion line and appears at New York Fashion Week
• They play matchmaker to a female skater, but her date turns out to be gay
• One of gang gets a chest implants (male OR female) but can no longer skate properly

 

[Amantide]

There'll be 3 Canadian ladies at the Olympics, not 1 (Katelyn and Gabby came 2 and 3 at Worlds)

Yeah, I know. But I put only Osmond as a stronger competitor than Ashley. Although Gab can beat her as well.

 

[slipchuk]

Ashley IMO was definitely robbed of 3rd place. When you add her and Chen's TES marks (and even there Wagner was underscored in a couple spots although not too bad) she is ahead of Chen. Chen beat Ashley based on PCS which is frankly absurd. Tennell getting higher PCS although it would make no difference in Tennell's rightful win is also an indication of poor judging. Ashley has every right to be upset.

I called it last year when she wrongly lost to Chen at Nationals last year despite having a higher base value, fewer mistakes, and atleast then rightly higher PCS, due to some overly bloated GOE for Chen and barely any GOE on anything Wagner did cleanly, that she was on the outs with the USFSA. This year just make that even more clear. Christine Brennan correctly noted it too.

For someone who brought the U.S back to the podium, back to 3 spots, and was their most consistent skater for the last 6 years she has gotten scant appreciation for it.

And I cant believe anyone is mentioning the Olympics 4 years ago. Nagasu in no way deserved to go to the Olympics 4 years ago over Wagner, it would have been a disgace if she had in fact. And it would be an utter crime for Wagner to never have been to an Olympics, she really ought to have gone to more than 1.

 

[Fiero425]

Ashley IMO was definitely robbed of 3rd place. When you add her and Chen's TES marks (and even there Wagner was underscored in a couple spots although not too bad) she is ahead of Chen. Chen beat Ashley based on PCS which is frankly absurd. Tennell getting higher PCS although it would make no difference in Tennell's rightful win is also an indication of poor judging. Ashley has every right to be upset.

I called it last year when she wrongly lost to Chen at Nationals last year despite having a higher base value, fewer mistakes, and at least then rightly higher PCS, due to some overly bloated GOE for Chen and barely any GOE on anything Wagner did cleanly, that she was on the outs with the USFSA. This year just make that even more clear. Christine Brennan correctly noted it too.

For someone who brought the U.S back to the podium, back to 3 spots, and was their most consistent skater for the last 6 years she has gotten scant appreciation for it.

And I cant believe anyone is mentioning the Olympics 4 years ago. Nagasu in no way deserved to go to the Olympics 4 years ago over Wagner, it would have been a disgace if she had in fact. And it would be an utter crime for Wagner to never have been to an Olympics, she really ought to have gone to more than 1.

Then why hold the US Nationals if people can just choose who they want to go? Why bother qualifying for all these poor slobs spending all this time and money just to be overruled because politics plays a part in who is sent to Worlds and the Olympics? Gawd save us all!

 

[tylersf]

US Skating is turning into USA Gymnastics maybe because American Gymnastics went from being an "ok" program to the most successful in recent memory.

I do think that our Ladies and Pairs programs have fallen behind the rest of the world. Once, the American ladies were so good that we finished 1-2-3 (1991 Worlds - Yamaguchi, Harding, Kerrigan). Then we had Michelle Kwan, Tara Lipiniski then Kimmie Meissner.

Then why hold the US Nationals if people can just choose who they want to go? Why bother qualifying for all these poor slobs spending all this time and money just to be overruled because politics plays a part in who is sent to Worlds and the Olympics? Gawd save us all!

 

[LilJen]

So will Ashley *not* get a chance at 4CCs? It would be awesome if she could go there, kick butt, pick up a nice paycheck, and improve her world standing for next season. . .