Gracie Gold in treatment for eating disorder, depression

[ChiquitaBanana]

No it is not. It is about technique and skating skills.

I have suffered of some sort of ED, ut let’s not go to th other extreme. Weight IS a factor that any physicist ponder in his calculus. Weight is NOT the only factor. Your technique is not a fixed model, some adjustments must be made according to each body type, and even between to different weights.

 

[skateboy]

If you throw a five pound weight into the air as high as you can, and then throw a twenty pound weight as high as you can, I believe it is obvious which one will go higher... and that applies to anyone.

Of course weight is a factor for skaters. But everyone's bone structures and body types are different. Of equal importance: ideal performance weight must be backed up with strength and muscle. Talent and lots of hard work don't hurt either.

 

[Japanfan]

If you throw a five pound weight into the air as high as you can, and then throw a twenty pound weight as high as you can, I believe it is obvious which one will go higher... and that applies to anyone.

But strength is also a factor. A very strong person and a very weak person might achieve the same height in the air doing the same jump.

And your logic here is skewed because men are heavier than women, but generally jump much higher. Though maybe I'm not quite getting your point.

 

[MsZem]

If you throw a five pound weight into the air as high as you can, and then throw a twenty pound weight as high as you can, I believe it is obvious which one will go higher... and that applies to anyone.

Of course weight is a factor for skaters. But everyone's bone structures and body types are different. Of equal importance: ideal performance weight must be backed up with strength and muscle. Talent and lots of hard work don't hurt either.

A skater is not a sack of spuds. Strength, speed, timing and technique all matter. These are all things that can be worked on in training.

Given that skaters spend hours every day on the ice and other training, they should probably be consuming more calories than a standard recommended diet, not fewer.

 

[Cleo1782]

If you throw a five pound weight into the air as high as you can, and then throw a twenty pound weight as high as you can, I believe it is obvious which one will go higher... and that applies to anyone.

Of course weight is a factor for skaters. But everyone's bone structures and body types are different. Of equal importance: ideal performance weight must be backed up with strength and muscle. Talent and lots of hard work don't hurt either.

1st of all Gracie is not a pair skater. 2nd of all her ed is not her only problem. She was not obese or overweight by any standards outside of figure skating. Even with her weight gain she still should have been able to execute at least a double axel. To me this means so much more is involved as she has stated.

 

[antmanb]

If you throw a five pound weight into the air as high as you can, and then throw a twenty pound weight as high as you can, I believe it is obvious which one will go higher... and that applies to anyone.

Of course weight is a factor for skaters. But everyone's bone structures and body types are different. Of equal importance: ideal performance weight must be backed up with strength and muscle. Talent and lots of hard work don't hurt either.

If that is true then why does the tiny Miyahara have the crappiest tiniest jumps in the whole sport? She clearly has muscle definition and strength and yet the blink and you miss them jumps.

 

[nimi]

A skater is not a sack of spuds.

It's kinda funny/sad that this still needed to be pointed out 10 pages into this thread but apparently that's the case. People who should know better talking about athletes bodies like there inanimate objects and dead weight... because that's how we talk about bodies in wider society, I guess. Especially when it comes to female bodies. Not an awful lot how they really function and what they DO and how, but A LOT about how they look (thin or fat?) and much they weigh (mostly talking about how so-and-so lost weight or should lose weight).

(And no, even pairs girls aren't just dead weight hurled into the air, like other posters have pointed out. It's not just their height and weight that matters when it comes to the lifts and throw jumps, like pair skaters themselves and some posters here have tried to remind us.)

Weight weight weight fat fat fat. We acknowledge in passing that yes technique and Mishin and strength and then we go back to talking about weigh weight weight because it's simple and it's one number, we don't have to really acknowledge the messy biological reality of muscle building and metabolism and strength-to-weight ratio and what goes into building and re-building muscle memory and the complicated biomechanics of human bodies (that most of us here don't really understand that well but apparently we don't like to acknowledge our ignorance so we just end up talking about weight endlessly in circles because it's quantifiable and seemingly simple and one number and "easy" and just throw a five pound weight into the air and "it's physics" while conveniently forgetting that physics, even classical mechanics, aren't just about mass and whether it's five pounds less or more, there are other things that come into equation and you need to know about that other stuff, too, to get anywhere and not just harp on about mass mass mass weight weight weight but yeah who cares weight weight weight weight weight five pounds less means better jumps it's physics weight weight weight lose weight...)

 

[Eeyora1]

I think Ashley should follow suit and skate to “Game of Thrones”

 

[AxelAnnie]

If that is true then why does the tiny Miyahara have the crappiest tiniest jumps in the whole sport? She clearly has muscle definition and strength and yet the blink and you miss them jumps.

Some people seem to lose their minds right after you say weight and skater.

Weight and size are but two of many factors that go into jump technique and ability.
If you want to be a top skater weight is one of the many things you have to work on. As in finding the weight that works for your optimal skating formula. It is neither shameful not should it be off limits.

 

[nimi]

Some people seem to lose their minds right after you say weight and skater.

Yeah, it sure does seem that harping on about skaters' weight endlessly, almost obsessively, post after post after post, is a matter of great importance to some people in this thread...

 

[skateboy]

Some people seem to lose their minds right after you say weight and skater.

Weight and size are but two of many factors that go into jump technique and ability.
If you want to be a top skater weight is one of the many things you have to work on. As in finding the weight that works for your optimal skating formula. It is neither shameful not should it be off limits.

Thank you, @AxelAnnie . That was

A skater is not a sack of spuds. Strength, speed, timing and technique all matter. These are all things that can be worked on in training.

Given that skaters spend hours every day on the ice and other training, they should probably be consuming more calories than a standard recommended diet, not fewer.

 

[Debbie S]

If that is true then why does the tiny Miyahara have the crappiest tiniest jumps in the whole sport? She clearly has muscle definition and strength and yet the blink and you miss them jumps.

I'll add that I'm 5'0", about 100 lbs (adult skater), and my jumps suck. In fact, I stopped competing b/c my FS wasn't anywhere near competitive. My oft-repeated question to my coach was "Did [whatever jump it was] actually look like a jump?" My coach was always baffled that I was thin, small, should be able to get high enough off the ice - part of it may have been strength, part maybe mental/fear. So you have Miyahara, and on the other hand, you have Karen Chen, about the same height, with huge jumps. There are a lot of factors that determine jumping ability.

Anyway, this thread is about Gracie, so I wish her the best as she works on regaining her health.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Thank you, @AxelAnnie . That was

People are really losing their mind in here when we say weight. Of course there are other factors and skaters are humans with a soul and a heart... I can't believe some people have not gotten your point. (FScommunity in this post : ) Get emotionnaly detached for some time, breathe in. We're all saying the same thing. And I was responding to the two persons who wrote that weight was NOT a factor pondering in a skating performance.

 

[MacMadame]

I agree that weight has something to do with it. But the problem is that people act like it's always just weight and also that weight is weight. The sack of potatoes example is a great example of how people talk about weight in a very simple but inaccurate way.

Think of it this way: if someone is 300 pounds, sure that's going to have a very negative impact on their ability to jump and no partner is going to be able to lift them no matter how strong either of them is and how good their technique is. But we aren't talking about skaters who weigh that much. We're talking about telling a skater who weighs 100 pounds that they "need to lose 5 pounds" and that's when it gets ridiculous.

It's ridiculous because you can have two skaters of exactly the same height and weight but one's has way less body fat than the other so one is going to be so much stronger than the other. Plus, you can tell an athlete that they'd be faster/stronger/jump higher if they just lost 5 pounds but if they go about it the wrong way and lose 5 pounds of muscle instead of 5 of fat, they will actually be slower/weaker/not be able to jump as high.

We need to change the way we talk about these things. Instead of weighing people and telling them their weight is wrong, they can get their body composition measured (such as getting a DEXA scan) and work on improving it. If they go the wrong way and lose lean tissue instead of fat, it will be obvious. And the way you lose fat and preserve lean tissue is not by starving yourself.

We also need to tell skaters that they need to be stronger and fitter because that's what really counts. Not "lose 5 pounds" because that's meaningless advice in the greater scheme of things.

 

[skateboy]

Sorry for the incomplete message above, my phone had a mind of its own lol.

People are really losing their mind in here when we say weight. Of course there are other factors and skaters are humans with a soul and a heart... I can't believe some people have gotten your point. (FScommunity in this post : ) Get emotionnaly detached for some time, breathe in. We're all saying the same thing. And I was responding to the two persons who wrote that weight was NOT a factor pondering in a skating performance.

Thank you, I think we really are all saying the same thing in different ways, at least most of us. I think I will now step away from posting further in this thread.

 

[overedge]

Weight and size are but two of many factors that go into jump technique and ability.
If you want to be a top skater weight is one of the many things you have to work on. As in finding the weight that works for your optimal skating formula. It is neither shameful not should it be off limits.

"Optimal" is a very subjective measure. The problem that happens, as has been pointed out many times, is when the supposed "optimal" weight for skaters is based solely on appearance, and unrealistic expectations of appearance at that.

Your statement that "if you want to be a top skater, weight is one of the many things you have to work on" reinforces that mindset of weight being more important than being fit or being healthy. A skater who is training properly and eating well shouldn't have to "work on" weight, because they will be at the weight that is healthy for them in doing what they're doing.

 

[bardtoob]

Muscle has a lot of weight, but more muscle can generate more force.

If a skater loses weight indiscriminately, then they will lose the ability to generate the force necessary to execute jumps ... So losing the maximum amount of weight possible is not any more helpful than than being overweight in the extreme because neither underweight nor overweight will help a skater jump.

 

[lala]

Because Mishin's technique attributes the ability to perform a jump to "physics", not just "weight". That is why Liza does not have an eating disorder. Sure, weight is part of a physics equations but other things can be adjusted in the equation besides weight to make a jump work according to Mishin's physics model.

The bottom line is that Tuk has been trained to think that there is more to whether or not a jump can be executed than just her weight measurement, and I do not think that is true for many other skaters, and those with anorexia in particular.

two things:
-Liza is not flexible, and not a ballerina type skater..but she is a petite woman.
https://www.google.hu/search?q=finlandia+trophy+2017+women&client=firefox-b&dcr=0&tbm=isch&source=iu&pf=m&ictx=1&fir=uZ2-Q_W84roR2M%3A%2CFt5ZDmL4emZWTM%2C_&usg=__3W3DFMeFNZq0TJ2dWjBRu5lRtP0=&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjOqpDUuf3WAhVPY1AKHYH1Dy4Q9QEIPzAC#imgrc=uZ2-Q_W84roR2M:
Look at next to Sotskova and Caro!

- Plushenko controlled his weight continuously. Plus he was on hard diet before the competitions for 2-3 days. He ate jogurt and bananas. So Mishin's method: great technic and right/optimal/light weight.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Belbin said that before B/A went to Linichuk, she was so weak at the end of the day, she couldn't raise her arm, and that Linichuk and Karsonopov told her right off that she was underweight. She said she panicked when her thighs wouldn't fit into her jeans anymore due to the muscle and tone she had under his training regimen, but she was on her way to health and being stronger for her partner.

 

[bardtoob]

great technic and right/optimal/light weight.

But you can more dissect technique to:

- depth of the knee before takeoff on the skate holding the edge
- the part of the blade supporting the weight
- position of the picking leg or free leg
- body air position
- when to unwrap the legs
- checking the landing

Many things equally as important as weight.

 

[analia]

I see Gracie's PR team successfully diverted the story of her nerves crushing down from disappointments to people yelling at each other about how to define weight. Smart. Think about a hypothetic scenario (not Gracie): A person has an extremely competitive spirit, wants to win all the time, fails to a few times by a thread, gets depressed, starts to eat a lot to feel better and loses motivation to keep training, can no longer gain back former athletic ability, gets more depressed, eats even more, regrets and turns bulimic, has a nervous breakdown...In this hypothetic scenario which really is quite common, weight itself plays little role in this person's downward spiral. It's merely a causal effect from said person's original problem, that s/he thinks s/he has to win all the time to be happy. Not winning is seen as deficiency of their entire being.
I don't recall anyone ever calling Gracie anything. All summer people were saying she could only do double jumps, not that she was too overweight to do triple jumps (that would be upon the assumption that any skinny person can do a triple jump, which simply is not true.) Gracie Gold is very talented in figure skating, even though she might not even like it very much. To quote a writer I would rather not name, "talent is its own expectation." Sometimes one loses control of the ferocity of one's own talent.

 

[bardtoob]

I see Gracie's PR team successfully diverted the story of her nerves crushing down from disappointments to people yelling at each other about how to define weight.

I think you're reading too much into it. Gracie is not a politician or a major media persona. There is not much to be gained from this on Gracie's side. Gracie only had skating. Gracie did not have a concert tour to cancel, had no reality show, and was not running for Congress.

Lipnitskaya, Gracie, etc. ... Have struggled and said publicly what really happened.

 

[ChiquitaBanana]

Because Mishin's technique attributes the ability to perform a jump to "physics", not just "weight". That is why Liza does not have an eating disorder. Sure, weight is part of a physics equations but other things can be adjusted in the equation besides weight to make a jump work according to Mishin's physics model.

The bottom line is that Tuk has been trained to think that there is more to whether or not a jump can be executed than just her weight measurement, and I do not think that is true for many other skaters, and those with anorexia in particular.

Wait a minute, Mishin does weight his students from a very young age. He says he does it when they are young so they are used to it when they get older. This is first-hand information and heard him tell that circa 2012-2013. She was in Toronto get a program choregraphed by David Wilson and Mishin was not with her at the moment and was praying her hips wouldn't grow too much during the summer. How he deals exactly with his students' weight, I don't know, but he sure takes it into consideration.

 

[jlai]

Wait how do we know so and so does or does not have an eating disorder unless they announce it?

 

[bardtoob]

Wait a minute, Mishin does weight his students from a very young age. He says he does it when they are young so they are used to it when they get older. This is first-hand information and heard him tell that circa 2012-2013. She was in Toronto get a program choregraphed by David Wilson and Mishin was not with her at the moment and was praying her hips wouldn't grow too much during the summer. How he deals exactly with his students' weight, I don't know, but he sure takes it into consideratio

I said "Sure, weight is part of a physics equations but other things can be adjusted in the equation besides weight to make a jump work according to Mishin's physics model." ... Within what you quoted.

 

[lala]

But you can more dissect technique to:

- depth of the knee before takeoff on the skate holding the edge
- the part of the blade supporting the weight
- position of the picking leg or free leg
- body air position
- when to unwrap the legs
- checking the landing

Many things equally as important as weight.

I don't argue.

 

[MsZem]

I see Gracie's PR team successfully diverted the story of her nerves crushing down from disappointments to people yelling at each other about how to define weight. Smart. Think about a hypothetic scenario (not Gracie): A person has an extremely competitive spirit, wants to win all the time, fails to a few times by a thread, gets depressed, starts to eat a lot to feel better and loses motivation to keep training, can no longer gain back former athletic ability, gets more depressed, eats even more, regrets and turns bulimic, has a nervous breakdown...In this hypothetic scenario which really is quite common, weight itself plays little role in this person's downward spiral. It's merely a causal effect from said person's original problem, that s/he thinks s/he has to win all the time to be happy. Not winning is seen as deficiency of their entire being.
I don't recall anyone ever calling Gracie anything. All summer people were saying she could only do double jumps, not that she was too overweight to do triple jumps (that would be upon the assumption that any skinny person can do a triple jump, which simply is not true.) Gracie Gold is very talented in figure skating, even though she might not even like it very much. To quote a writer I would rather not name, "talent is its own expectation." Sometimes one loses control of the ferocity of one's own talent.

Gracie's statement mentioned treatment for depression, anxiety and an eating disorder - all serious issues. Your post basically argues that developing anxiety is something shameful that requires distracting from, and that bringing up her eating disorder is a diversionary tactic. That's a horrible thing to suggest. It also shows yet again why Gracie's statement was important and brave.

 

[giselle23]

I think weight and sports works like this: If your weight prevents you from being competitive, you have several options: leave the sport; stay in sport but don't expect high results; find a healthy way to control your weight to a point where it does not hinder athletic requirements. If an athlete for various reasons can not comply, due to weight, with athletic requirements of a given sport, then he/she has to make choices.

I don't like when such conversations lead in a direction of "oh, this sport is so demanding on the girls, they are inclined to develop ED and become anorexic." What does it mean? prohibit 3X jumps in competitions so that heavier girls can compete in the Olympics? One has to be a certain weight (proportionately to other physical specifics of ones body) not exactly for aesthetics but to be able to perform certain athletic elements..

If one is too heavy to do a 3X, then one is too heavy to do 3X.... either loose weight, or develop more muscle to lift yourself, or leave, or skate on lower level....

But when a score in certain sports includes "aesthetics" (skating, gymnastics, art-swimming, etc), a heavier athlete usually has less flexibility and his/her element may show less quality and less difficulty, and receive less points...
http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ap_webfeeds/d9ddeead009cd0056c0f6a706700238c.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/aa/a7/ed/...89358--figure-skating-dresses-ice-skaters.jpg

That's life.. Don't like it, change to another sport, which suites your weight/body and requirements.....

Those pictures are the ultimate in anecdotal evidence that proves nothing. I seriously doubt that weight has much to do with flexibility. By the way, "aesthetics" has to do with the way something or someone looks. That is a big part of the weight obsession in skating.

 

[Mayra]

I see Gracie's PR team successfully diverted the story of her nerves crushing down from disappointments to people yelling at each other about how to define weight. Smart.

Smart? How about sensitive, empathetic and honest to the extent that she shared what she was comfortable with. Something obviously lacking in a few people's posts. I think it 's obvious to whoever has been following Gracie that she has been going through quite a few things in her professional and personal life that came to a head for her this year. It's easy for us to point fingers, pass judgement and comment on lives we know nothing about but this is her life. She walks the mile in her own shoes and she's the one fighting with her own demons regardless of the cause. If you want to dissect her 4th place at worlds, her weight over the summer and her head space up to this point, that's on you and it reflects on you, not her PR team.

Personally I'm taking a step back and hoping she finds peace and comfort with herself and life in general.

 

[lala]

Those pictures are the ultimate in anecdotal evidence that proves nothing. I seriously doubt that weight has much to do with flexibility. By the way, "aesthetics" has to do with the way something or someone looks. That is a big part of the weight obsession in skating.

I have experience sometimes the "fat" persons are more flexible.