Baby Charlie Gard's life

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once_upon said:
Because society is extremely cruel to mothers whose children have birth defects or die, especially prenatally. Just look at the U.S. politicians who think mother's should be charged with murder if a baby is stillborn.

Societies universally think mother's are at fault.
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Reference on stillborn murder charge.
 
And you know what, I've been the journey with mothers whose children are dying and hearing them express enormous guilt.

teddy's mom, clint's mom, Jeffery's mom, Steven's mom, Andrew's mom, Shannon's mom, Adam's mom, Alex's mom, Nick's mom, Charlie's mom, Kati's mom, Katie's mom, Joseph's mom, Jillian's mom, David's mom, so many more that I can't remember and I have great guilt that I've forgotten their names, and yes me as Susan's mom. Universally we all have the same thing in common GUILT. Because we are judged. Why did you become pregnant knowing that you are a carrier of ___, why didn't you eat better, how dare you ingest _____, why didn't you take them to _____, why didn't you call 911, why did you choose that daycare provider, why didn't you protect your child from his _____ family member?
Do YOU really want me to listed the qabilliontrillion things thst have been thrown at moms? Because I'm sure that the admins don't want me to use that much band width.

Go ahead get preachy with me. Got it covered. Probably even how your daughter might feel about having abortions.
 
once_upon said:
And you know what, I've been the journey with mothers whose children are dying and hearing them express enormous guilt.

teddy's mom, clint's mom, Jeffery's mom, Steven's mom, Andrew's mom, Shannon's mom, Adam's mom, Alex's mom, Nick's mom, Charlie's mom, Kati's mom, Katie's mom, Joseph's mom, Jillian's mom, David's mom, so many more that I can't remember and I have great guilt that I've forgotten their names, and yes me as Susan's mom. Universally we all have the same thing in common GUILT. Because we are judged. Why did you become pregnant knowing that you are a carrier of ___, why didn't you eat better, how dare you ingest _____, why didn't you take them to _____, why didn't you call 911, why did you choose that daycare provider, why didn't you protect your child from his _____ family member?
Do YOU really want me to listed the qabilliontrillion things thst have been thrown at moms? Because I'm sure that the admins don't want me to use that much band width.

Go ahead get preachy with me. Got it covered. Probably even how your daughter might feel about having abortions.
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Got three daughters. I know how they feel .
 
As Andy's mom told me - no you don't when I told her I knew how she felt

She was right. I didn't know the depths. No you don't.
 
rfisher said:
Exactly. If this was a poor Black child from west Africa dying from AIDS or even malnutrition, or even a poor white child from Appalachia who is getting his Medicaid cut, nobody would care.
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If in place of Charlie it was a black child, and a hospital and government stood in the way of "hope treatment", i am certain the Media would be pushing "black child's life is not important" or some kind of racial angle.

Angelskates said:
I think it's disgusting that Trump has said the US will foot the bill for this and at the same time the US is going through a health care crisis for its own citizens.
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If it was Obama in his place, he would be praised by media and Lefties.
If it was a black kid and Trump offered help, he would not be praised but at least not critiqued.
If Trump did not offer and/or ignored the issue all together, Media at some point would accuse him of being insensitive.

.... if Trump invents a Cancer Cure ..... he would not get any credit from mad Lefties and media. You can't expect logic from spoiled cry babies who did not get the elections to go how they wanted.

I think it is great that Trump offered. But the child, given the equipment, most likely will be at best VERY uncomfortable during the landing even on the largest MedAmbulance aircraft... not to mention possible turbulence. His equipment has to be very stationary, so it seems.

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3...ls/image/2017/04/11/14/charlie-gard-close.jpg
 
The issues aren't as black and white as you want to make it.
Had Obama interfered with this case I would object.
Trump won't invent a cure for cancer.

Neither man is a doctor.

I think Obama would remain silent or not offer assistance because he would recognize the futility of the situation. But I do not know that for certain.

however, the fact that Trump doesn't even understand the complexity of transport or the futility of the situation, shows in this case. Speak before understanding.

But tinami I am disappointed in you. You who seeks humane care for our animal friends/children and the don't help humans who suck up Medicaid and welfare dollars to not see these in this case. As I posted thread there are worse things than losing a child.

It's not a trump hate poor libs who lost carp here. Angelskates is not a US citizen. She has spent a career working with kids.
 
Tinami - I would certainly not be praising Obama, I don't know how much clearer I can make myself, but I am on the side of the courts on this one, I don't think the child should be kept alive for the sake of being alive, when it is known he is suffering, there is no cure, there is no hope of improvement. He is suffering.

I think most supporting him to keep him alive are doing the wrong thing for devastatingly sad reasons. I think spending millions of dollars and countless other resources to keep this child alive is wrong, and certainly think it is wrong for Trump to say his tax payers will foot the bill. Where does it end then? Will they (and it is the tax payers, not Trump himself) foot the bill for every person in this situation - there are more than this one. What about those in his own country who can't afford health care? They're tax payers and they're not even able to have Trump foot their bills. I think it's wrong for Trump for more reasons than for his parents. Trump is trying to use this child for political gain, his parents are clinging to a tiny chance of hope and not wanting their child to die, but I still think they're both doing the wrong thing in supporting keeping the child alive.

Your comments surprise me, Tinami. If it was a suffering cat or dog who would not get better, was in pain and could not eat, drink or do anything independently, would you continue its suffering or euthanise? I'm not suggesting we euthanise, but I do think withdrawing support and continuing pain management as much as is possible is the most humane thing to do to end this child's pain since there is no medical way to cure him or offer any improvement on this condition (or even slow it down).

I've worked with kids and families in similar conditions, who have travelled the world seeking better services for their kids, with two big differences: the child was not suffering and there was some hope of improvement, even if it was very slow, costly etc. I've worked with charities who beg and beg for financial support to help those who can't seek life saving and life improvement pay for medical fees. I guess Trump doesn't care so much about them because they're not in the news. My point is, Trump made his offer merely because it was in the news and could get him some political brownie points. If he really wanted to help, he could help his own citizens (since he was offering their tax dollars, not his own money) or give to the thousands of charities and organisations around the world who provide medical services to those who can't afford them. He could save millions of lives that can actually be saved, unfortunately this poor child can't be, and in the mean time, while Trump tries to score political points and his parents go to court again, the baby is suffering.
 
once_upon said:
But tinami I am disappointed in you.
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And i am disappointed in you, that you don't appreciate how much good Trump is doing for USA, and that you bought into Liberal lies.

Angelskates said:
Your comments surprise me, Tinami. If it was a suffering cat or dog who would not get better, was in pain and could not eat, drink or do anything independently, would you continue its suffering or euthanise?
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Wait..... i thought i said the child would have a hard time surviving the flight... that means i am not advocating in favor of transporting him...:rolleyes:

=
And for the record. What Trump said is "“if we can help” Charlie Gard “we would be delighted to do so.", without any specifics who is "we" and in what form. "We" could be his businesses or family, not government funds.

Pope Francis also offered help. Why is Trump singled out?
http://time.com/4843746/president-trump-pope-francis-charlie-gard/

Bias...... ugly Lefty bias. I am seeing Soviet Union lights all over on the Left.
 
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once_upon said:
Universally we all have the same thing in common GUILT. Because we are judged. Why did you become pregnant knowing that you are a carrier of ___, why didn't you eat better, how dare you ingest _____, why didn't you take them to _____, why didn't you call 911, why did you choose that daycare provider, why didn't you protect your child from his _____ family member?
Do YOU really want me to listed the qabilliontrillion things thst have been thrown at moms? Because I'm sure that the admins don't want me to use that much band width.
Click to expand...

There were a few episodes of 'Call the Midwife' (BBC series) that dealt with thalidomide babies. When one of the mothers who had a deformed baby due to Thalidomide found out about it, she told the doctor that she would face a bunch of accusatory questions, in a similar vein to those you have posted. For example: "Why did you take it? Why didn't you just carry on"?

That was 1961. Things haven't changed much in terms of mothers being held overly responsible for children who are born with deformities or medical conditions. :(
 
Tinami Amori said:
And i am disappointed in you, that you don't appreciate how much good Trump is doing for USA, and that you bought into Liberal lies.
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Are you fcuking serious?! The evil piece of shit Trump is the reason once_upon will lose her health insurance and you have the absolute nerve to claim that sexist pig is doing good for the USA?! Jesus fcuking christ.
 
Tinami Amori said:
Pope Francis also offered help. Why is Trump singled out?
http://time.com/4843746/president-trump-pope-francis-charlie-gard/
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Okay, since you asked, I don't think the Pope offering to help is appropriate either. But Italians have healthcare - one of the best systems in the world according to the WHO, Americans don't. The US is currently not offering healthcare to all its citizens, yet Trump is offering it to this one child, who is not even a citizen. Why do you think that is, Tinami? Why do you think he's chosen to "help" this one child over the millions of others, including Americans, who also need healthcare assistance? Why isn't Trump "delighted to help" all of the Americans who can't afford healthcare? What about all of the American babies and children who need healthcare? THAT is why Trump has been singled out. Using a baby, and his family, as political pawns because the child is in the news and he wants political brownie points is what I find disgusting. If Trump were offering all Americans the same deal - health care when it is warranted and couldn't be afforded - I would be applauding him. I am not an American and as a non-American, I can still comment that I don't see Trump as doing any good for America or the World; just the opposite. His climate change denial alone makes me want to cry for the world, and add in the healthcare crisis, even with his comments on women and people with disabilities, I would still cheer if he were to offer Americans the same deal as he is offering this non-American family; I have to believe he is capable of change, though I see it as unlikely.

If my government were offering a non-citizen any sort of health (or other) assistance over Australians, I would be annoyed. My taxes should pay for services for Australians, not services for individuals of any other country (unless they were to benefit Australians). Aid is given to countries that require it and meet the guidelines, and this is our duty, but to give to individuals is not appropriate and sets a terrible precedence. Governments should serve their own citizens first and foremost.
 
It is totally inappropriate for Trump to insert himself into a matter that is before the British courts just so that he can make political points with American religious extremists. If he wants to help children from another country receive medical care maybe he should try taking in some refugees.
 
WildRose said:
It is totally inappropriate for Trump to insert himself into a matter that is before the British courts just so that he can make political points with American religious extremists. If he wants to help children from another country receive medical care maybe he should try taking in some refugees.
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Exactly, and that would be a benefit to American as well. And I would applaud that.
 
Tinami Amori said:
And i am disappointed in you, that you don't appreciate how much good Trump is doing for USA, and that you bought into Liberal lies.

Bias...... ugly Lefty bias. I am seeing Soviet Union lights all over on the Left.
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Tinami, could you please explain in detail how Trump is doing so much good for the USA?
 
Tinami Amori said:
=

Bias...... ugly Lefty bias. I am seeing Soviet Union lights all over on the Left.
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Given the Trumpie collusion with Mr KGB Putin, now admitted by even right-wing commentators like Krauthammer and Jonah Goldberg, this is hilarious. It wasn't the left who sold the integrity of our elections to the Russians and it's not the left threatening the media and judiciary, and in other ways emulating Soviet "best practices." But carry on, I can't wait to find out all the good Trump (who now has the lowest approval rating at the six month mark of any president in history) is doing.

ETA: sorry for political reaction, but Trump did insert himself into this tragedy for political gain. As for the baby, it's horrific for the parents but I think they're not doing the right thing.
 
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PRlady said:
Given the Trumpie collusion with Mr KGB Putin, now admitted by even right-wing commentators like Krauthammer and Jonah Goldberg, this is hilarious. It wasn't the left who sold the integrity of our elections to the Russians and it's not the left threatening the media and judiciary, and in other ways emulating Soviet "best practices." But carry on, I can't wait to find out all the good Trump (who now has the lowest approval rating at the six month mark of any president in history) is doing.
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You're either brain-washed or an intentional manipulator of information. Clinton sold uranium to Russians, got many millions kick-backs into their Fund, gave 500,000 USD speeches in Moscow, sent representatives to Ukraine to find "dirt" on Trump, and much more. Mass media is not covering it sufficiently, because it leans Left. As example, here are few links..... there are many for each of Clinton's activities..
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/...s-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html
http://www.nationalreview.com/artic...ll-hillary-sold-out-us-interests-putin-regime

PRlady said:
ETA: sorry for political reaction, but Trump did insert himself into this tragedy for political gain.
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You don't have any proof of that. That's your assumption through the negative Lefty prism. Pope Francis also offered help, same time as Trump.
In Trump's favor - he went ballistic when he heard of children suffocating in Syrian chemical attack. He had the same reaction when he heard "a specific child may have a chance at life".

Japanfan said:
Tinami, could you please explain in detail how Trump is doing so much good for the USA?
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at Admin's request, i will not do it in this thread. Plus, nothing i will say to you will convince you, since we have different "economic and social models" how society should function.
 
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For those who don't want political views here:
@Tinami Amori - if Trump says something in one speech & then denies he ever said it & says something else, is that "leftists" lying about him? If he condemns jobs leaving America & then doesn't bring his outsourced manufacturing jobs back to the US, is that "leftists" lying about him? If he condemns illegal aliens & then hires undocumented workers for his hotels, is that "leftists" just picking on him? I could give 1000 more examples but you have a closed mind & won't admit there is a problem here.

I remember the Nixon years very well & Trump is doing many of the things Nixon did to pull the wool over the gullible's eyes. My dad loved Nixon & to the end of his life would not admit anything negative about him, just like the people who voted for Trump can't see anything bad about what he's doing to our democracy or to our planet.
 
There is no 'happy' solution to this sad situation but I hope the parents realize that it is possible to find peace and happiness in one's life, no matter how big and painful the loss. I hope they make the right decision, not just from their angle, but from all angles considered. Not saying it is easy, but one has to do the best one can, and accept it. I will never know their pain in the true sense, but I send them my love and good wishes.
 
Vash01 said:
There is no 'happy' solution to this sad situation but I hope the parents realize that it is possible to find peace and happiness in one's life, no matter how big and painful the loss. I hope they make the right decision, not just from their angle, but from all angles considered. Not saying it is easy, but one has to do the best one can, and accept it. I will never know their pain in the true sense, but I send them my love and good wishes.
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The loss of a child is one of the hardest things a parent can ever go through. It rips people apart emotionally, and drives couples apart far too frequently.
 
VASH...Losing a child of THE biggest pain a person can go through. You never get over it. There is no moving on. There is only moving through it...one tiny step at a time. There is no other end to reach. The only hope there is is that someday it doesn't hurt as much.
 
We might as well move this thread to PI, because this case is getting very political....and VERY incorrect.

An amendment to grant the family residency was passed unanimously in the House Committee on Appropriations on Tuesday, according to Congresswoman Jaime Herrera Beutler, who introduced the amendment. But it would need a vote from the full House and the Senate to become law. The amendment has been added to a controversial bill that includes money for US President Donald Trump's border wall and enhanced immigration enforcement, which could take a significant amount of time to be voted into law, if it is at all.
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The GOP put this amendment....to grant Gard's family residency to allow their dying child to be experimented on....onto a bill designed to limit immigration.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/07/19/health/charlie-gard-us-residency/index.html

"If you don't fund my wall to keep out the brown people, this adorable baby dies."

The cynicism is mind-boggling.
 
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