Duhamel/Radford update coaching team - no longer with Gauthier

[Rock2]

Yeah, poor Julie. She had one year a few years back where I wasn't all that stoked about the stuff she did but that was only one year.

Every choreographer has strengths and weaknesses and same is true for her I feel.

I have been reminded that choreographers are also held hostage by the limitations of the skaters which also includes what they will and will not skate to. I have been told by a skater that they recently skated to music that wasn't all that perfect of a choice because it was conducive to skating cleanly and that was the bigger goal. So there's often more to the story that you can't pin on the choreographer.

Julie choreographs well as @kwanfan1818 stated. I don't have a huge complaint about the music in isolation, however the selections often tend to leave me wanting more/something else for one of two reasons:
1. They don't seem to capture enough insight about the skater(s) and who they really are, on or off the ice in a way that makes them really stand out
2. While there is a bit of a range of selections, 80% of the choices are either contemporary music from different eras or some kind of French music. Seems like there's a comfort zone there

Neither of those two issues seem to be monster barriers as she's capable of driving good PCS with her athletes. Where I'm a bit skeptical is if she can take a top 5 athlete or team and create that '10' program that can put them on top when the competitors have all skated equally well at worlds or olympics. That's where the issues above might come to the forefront and show a kink the armor.

I want to be able to describe how MT/M, R/W and D/R are all different in their stylings...but i just can't. That's where someone like M-F excels and I'm craving that from the teams in that camp.

 

[clairecloutier]

It's also sometimes hard to separate the choreography from the skating. For a program to really work, the choreography needs to be good, but also the skaters have to be fully engaged with it. Flinging an arm up here & there is very different from skating with intention & meaning. In this way, all choreographers are limited by the extent of their skaters' skills.

Interesting comments @Rock2 about how the Montreal teams could be more distinctively styled in terms of their programs. In some ways, I don't completely disagree with this, although to me D/R have quite their own style at this point. C/T, to me, also have pretty much their own style, although we haven't been able to see many different programs from them yet. Still, their basic look & sensibility is there I think. MT/M, R/W, and S/BA are more works in progress, but I do feel Julie has done some quite good programs, or sections of programs in R/W's case, for all 3 teams.

Creating that "10" program is a discussion that I'll give you. It's a little open to debate. I think Julie has done some programs for her athletes that were very much the right programs at the right time and that definitely drove PCS and reputation. Examples would be "Muse," "Hometown Glory," D/R's SP set to Eric's music, and also I would look back to Castelli/Shnapir's programs in the Olympic year--which weren't stunningly original but were right for them and helped put them on top in the U.S. that year and get an Oly team bronze. I also consider Scimeca/Knierim's Metallica SP to be an important program because, as much as some fans didn't like it, that program scored highly with the judges and helped lift S/K in competitions and cement them as U.S. #1. But has Julie choreographed that iconic program yet that will be remembered for years to come as a classic of the sport? Probably not.

 

[barbarafan]

Choreography-wise, yes. Music-wise, rarely.


The writer likely wasn't asked, either. Titles are usually done by editorial, to increase interest and readership.

Thanks for explaining. That certainly was not the tone of Meagan's conversation and I would imagine she is finding it upsetting. Hopefully Richard Gauthier knows her well enough to not believe she had anything to do with the title.

 

[aftershocks]

....not to mention the Carnival Cruise line number S/B had to suffer through this season....

?? what number is that? You lost me.

I believe Rock2 is referencing Seguin/Bilodeau's Louis Armstrong sp (Skokiaan) which never came together for them last season right from the start at Skate America. They struggled with making that sp work and eventually scrapped it for their former delightful sp (Monde Inverse from Kurios).

I have never seen any program of Julie's that I disliked but I really liked I/M's programs this year. [Dave Lease] seemed to be upset that KMT2 did not do well and seemed to pick on Julie...I do not know if he was fed that info or if it really is his opinion but he was really nasty...

Dave had bonded with KMT during a fun interview they had pre-season where Kirsten discussed her concussion. Kirsten has a delightful, bubbly personality and she was in good spirits despite still recuperating. We all know how Dave goes a little crazy with the sucking up, name-dropping, and flaming re his likes and dislikes, which can turn on a dime.

"Jokingly" As in I doubt she was saying it jokingly. That "joke" really made me try less at finding positive things about her skating...

As if you've ever even had a thought of working hard to find positive things to say about Meagan and her skating. Moreover, it's not hard.

As Meagan posted on Twitter (June 9 @ 2:32pm) #HatersGonnaHate and #IfYouDon'tHaveAnythingNiceToSayDon'tSayAnythingAtAll
https://twitter.com/mhjd_85/status/873291768917352448 She must be getting some crap from people who have always had a beef no matter what she does

Me personally, I'm kinda like Meagan in that I'm talkative and I like to analyze, maybe overanalyze. But I do have something to say. Whether 'nice' or not, I'm always honest, and I'm not shy about reacting passionately. I don't dig on any skater in a negatively personal trashing way. There's no reason for that kind of behavior. I've always respected and rooted for Meagan & Eric, and I've been inspired by their passion, determination and hard work (blah to all the oversensitive Canadian uber fans and posters with petty grudges & knee-jerk 'likes' ).

I still say this is a very interesting and a surprising move in D/R's final season that provokes all kinds of questions and wonderings. I give it to Meagan for leaving no stone unturned, and I wish her and Eric well. There's still a lot of questions about how this will work and whether its too little too late. They had such a magical end to their 2015-2016 season, but even early in that season they had a few hiccoughs, so changes and a closer look were likely needed immediately post-2016 Worlds (the high they were on probably complicated how they took stock pre 2016-2017). I think D/R and their coaches did try to do something different this past season, but it didn't work out the way they had hoped. As Meagan said, Richard Gauthier is not to blame. They are just trying something new which requires making some difficult logistical choices. Oh well, it should be a fun season with everyone ratcheting up their game. There's no reason to count out any of the top pairs.

It's just a shame that the ISU and some feds, especially U.S. fed never really ratchet up their levels in effectively leading the sport with vision, an understanding of the past and fresh strategies for the future. #USFEDPAIRSDIVISION

 

[julieann]

I think it's great Meagan and Eric are finding new ways to stay fresh, now or never. I don't think they had J/C in mind when they made the change as much their coaches and choreographers. J/C made improvements but they have a long way to go and D/R, aside from the 7th at worlds, had a much better season, so I doubt they're really worried about J/C, I think they're focused on having the best season they can have and kicking ass.

Many St. Petersburg pairs complain they get stagnant when there aren't pairs to push them and "compete" against them at the rink. I think it will do all of them some good to feed off each other.

 

[aftershocks]

J/C made improvements but they have a long way to go and D/R, aside from the 7th at worlds, had a much better season

I think that's rather debatable, but whatever. I'm sure Meagan will tell you herself that Vanessa/Morgan had much better programs that eventually worked out better for J/C than hers and Eric's programs did for them. Why do you think D/R are choosing to work with JohnZ/JohnK??? To be honest, D/R started out their first comp last season very well and in good form. But everything slowly unraveled from there and they found themselves scrambling to tweak layouts and tech content strategies. D/R were moving down in the standings prior to Helsinki Worlds, and then Eric's unfortunate injury further complicated their Worlds results.

James/Cipres started out with a bang and a fizzle at Skate America, but John Zimmerman and Silvia Fontana were unfazed. They carefully shepherded J/C through the rest of the GP season and then unleashed them at Euros! Meanwhile, all season long everyone and their pairs partners and their choreographers were opening their eyes and marveling over John Kerr's work for Sav/Mas and J/C. And keep in mind, Jeremy Barrett's boffo creative input and support as part of J/C's coaching team.

I think JohnZ's vision in putting together a collaborative team has been key to the success his crew has helped James/Cipres achieve. OTOH, I disagree with the seeming assumption by some posters that J/C are suddenly overnight successes and JohnZ made 'huge' improvements with them in one season. It's like the erroneous view when an actor who has been developing his craft for years suddenly lands an iconic role, and all of a sudden 'a star is born' and described as an 'overnight success.'

JohnZ himself has said that he didn't make too many changes in his first season together with Vanessa & Morgan. JohnZ and his team chiefly tweaked J/C's approach to music selection, especially for their fp (as they seemed stuck in Angels & Demons and Romeo & Juliet land). And significantly, JohnZ and Silvia spoke of having conversations with J/C that have helped J/C with their partner relationship, and how that plays out on the ice during competitions. J/C always exude passion and an electric connection, but that can go haywire. Having just the right outside input can work wonders, and it DID! It's hard to define what makes magic happen, but the significant factor is that the fairy dust was already there hidden somewhere. The incremental unleashing of it has been a thrill to witness.

How soon people forget or overlook that J/C had a boffo sp at 2016 Worlds. Even though J/C's season working in Russia was not immediately successful, they definitely benefited from it in integral ways, and they probably realize that. I am sure J/C are hugely grateful for all of the help they have received in the past from a variety of coaches and mentors. JohnZ and crew have been wise in their approach to assisting J/C, but they also know they are working with a hugely talented pair of veteran competitors who just needed a fresh approach and minimal tweaking. And let me point out once again that Jeremy Barrett has been an important part of JohnZ's creative team, and he's away from the rink taking care of his newborn son as he and his wife, Lucy, battle her recently diagnosed illness. It's wonderful how the skating community has rallied around them.

 

[Rock2]

@clairecloutier I'm sort of with you, sort of not, on your assessment of the programs and their impact. I would argue there were other factors that made a difference beyond the programming for each of those situations.

I will say for me, while I may need to give it more thought, both programs of Takahashi/Tran in 2012 bronze year might have done the best job at capturing magic between the skaters. I believe that was Julie...or at least assume so based on music choices (Imagine, French Symphony).

Not only did those programs win medals but they cast the pair in a very different light internationally, even though not all English-speaking commentators were wowed by the programs. I was.

 

[clairecloutier]

I will say for me, while I may need to give it more thought, both programs of Takahashi/Tran in 2012 bronze year might have done the best job at capturing magic between the skaters. I believe that was Julie...or at least assume so based on music choices (Imagine, French Symphony).

Not only did those programs win medals but they cast the pair in a very different light internationally, even though not all English-speaking commentators were wowed by the programs. I was.

Those programs were indeed done by Julie. And I agree they were great!

 

[honey]

Those programs were indeed done by Julie. And I agree they were great!

IMO, that 2012 LP of Takahashi/Tran was Marcotte's best work. Perfect music choice for those two skaters. The biggest reason I see it as her best work though is because I feel that the choreography had transitions that weren't just for the sake of transitions (which is my biggest issue with Marcotte as a choreographer). Really lovely detail in that program, matched musically and stylistically with the team.

 

[julieann]

I think that's rather debatable

Numbers don't lie:

D/R
Finlandia 66.49 131.29 197.78 1st
GP Can 78.39 139.91 218.39 1st (winners three years in a row)
NHK 72.95 131.61 204.56 1st (winners three years in a row)
GPF 71.44 134.55 205.99 3rd (previous year 2nd place, 1st place)
4CC 74.31 137.92 212.73 2nd (previous year 2nd place, WD, 1st place)
WC 72.67 133.39 206.06 7th (previous year down from 1st, 1st, 3rd and 3rd, competed injured)

J/C
Aut Cl 65.58 133.32 198.90 2nd
GP Fr 66.05 132.53 198.58 3rd (previous year 2nd place)
GP Am 65.78 108.87 174.65 4th (never made it to any GPF)
Euro 74.18 145.54 220.02 3rd (previous year up from 4th, 5th and 5th, only beat S/K by 3.51 pts)
WC 70.10 134.58 204.68 8th (previous year up from 10th, 9th and 10th)

J/C had a great program suited for them (finally!) that doesn't mean it's good for everyone. It didn't do J/C any favors at worlds, they got stuck in the same place they've been in previous years. If they don't clean up their offishness and messiness, they won't do any better this season no matter who their coach is, how great their choreography is or how much the judges gift them their score, which is what I think happened at Euros. They can't always rely on skaters messing up to get them on the podium, that's what got them a medal at Euros but it won't always happen.

They have stiff Grand Prix competition this season, getting bronze medals will be tough. To even making it to the GPF will be hard and with all the talk about D/R's ages, Vanessa is no spring chicken either, she'll turn 30 in September. I hope they compete for a couple of years, but they do have plenty of work to do to get the level of the very top skaters.

One team is much more behind the 8-ball and it's not D/R, I don't see them being scared or jealous of anything or anyone.

 

[kirkbiggestfan]

Vanessa said she wants to compete 2 more seasons. Morgan may be looking for a new partner at that point.

 

[MAXSwagg]

I can only imagine the things the skaters say amongst each other though . We don't see everything or hear everything, nor should we - or it would be an all-out WAR here 24/7.

It's not really Meagan's fault that the breach of trust was broken there IMO. And she also probably made that joke because of the jibes they would both take at each other, and they're competitors going after the same thing.

This was before 2016 Worlds and when Tatiana and Max were still in it through 2018. If he makes snide comments about her, she'll probably respond back because she's a competitor. When you're competing with someone all bets are off. If you throw shade, it'll probably be thrown back. They're both adults though and can handle their own feud, and I highly doubt Meagan wanted that shared to create a bunch of drama amongst fans. Boundaries and trust are important to have in life.

Maxim Trankov has never made any personal comment about Meghan Duhamel.

 

[Karpenko]

Publically yeah, but I'm just saying that Meagan didn't make that comment public herself, so why make a big deal out of it towards her? Plus it's their business, their fued, almost 2 years old, and it's all non-skating related drama that isn't going to matter this season.

I love the quality of Tatiana and Max's skating very much, but I don't get why you hate on her for that feud (instead of your usual hating on her for the skating itself).

 

[Japanfan]

I would be very surprised if Meagan still talks to Dave Lease after he blabbed about her jokingly calling Maxim Trankov "Maxipad".

When did she say that about Trankov, and what the meaning/inference/context?

 

[antmanb]

I love the quality of Tatiana and Max's skating very much, but I don't get why you hate on her for that feud (instead of your usual hating on her for the skating itself).

We're lucky he hasn't shoe-horned in a reference to Uno yet

 

[LarrySK8]

A new vision going into probably the last Olympic year is not a bad idea. It can inspire the team and keep them working hard for the next 8 months (that's all it is), a mere blip in time.

 

[Just Lurking]

When did Meagan ever call Max a maxipad?
I've been given official confirmation that she never did and she only learned that nickname from The Skating Lesson.

 

[aftershocks]

Numbers don't lie: ...

J/C had a great program suited for them (finally!) that doesn't mean it's good for everyone. It didn't do J/C any favors at worlds, they got stuck in the same place they've been in previous years. If they don't clean up their offishness and messiness, they won't do any better this season no matter who their coach is, how great their choreography is or how much the judges gift them their score, which is what I think happened at Euros. They can't always rely on skaters messing up to get them on the podium, that's what got them a medal at Euros but it won't always happen.

They have stiff Grand Prix competition this season, getting bronze medals will be tough. To even making it to the GPF will be hard and with all the talk about D/R's ages, Vanessa is no spring chicken either, she'll turn 30 in September. I hope they compete for a couple of years, but they do have plenty of work to do to get the level of the very top skaters.

One team is much more behind the 8-ball and it's not D/R, I don't see them being scared or jealous of anything or anyone.

Whoa! Hold your horsies please. Good grief! I mean seriously, have fun comparing the numbers @julieann. You are the one bringing up comparisons between D/R and J/C in such a huffy OTT manner. Who in the world said anything at all about any team 'being scared or jealous' of anyone!!!? I think those emotions are playing out in your mind, not in any of the skaters' minds, nor in any other fans' minds! Jeesh! What the hecky do you mean by 'offishness'!? Stereotypin' much! I haven't said a word about the ages of any skaters in this thread. I made reference to this being D/R's last season, because they say it is their last season. Vanessa's got a rockin' bod and she looks ageless to me. So does Meagan too!!! Wowza, you are trippin' in some alternate universe @julieann!

I like and root for both J/C and D/R. But last season J/C had better choreographed and overall better received programs that worked better for them, especially in terms of choreography and music selection. That's a fact, regardless of the variances between J/C's and D/R's individual results and reputations over the course of their careers. I am not trying to compare their careers, but you can continue trying to justify something that needs no justification! D/R's programs certainly weren't horrible. Both of their programs had appealing qualities, but just simply did not come together very well for them over the course of the season. Neither program ended up enhancing their best qualities.

I was referencing J/C's individual progress with their programs this season in response to your initial post. J/C had a good second half of the season, chiefly with their results at Euros, and the overall impression they gave with their programs, capped off by the victorious showing they had at WTT tail end of the season (when everyone is worn out). I completely take exception to your claim that J/C only 'finally' had good programs. They've actually had a number of successful, crowd-pleasing programs over the years, but their fp music and choreo selections in particular became too generic and stuck-in-a-rut from season-to-season.

There are so many factors that go into a team's arc of success, and the ups and downs of competition. There's no need for you to be gnarly, demeaning and simplistic in your referencing J/C, but I will leave you to it.

 

[Rock2]

Yeah I'm a huge fan of making sure you leave the sport with no stone left unturned.
Timing is tricky though to make significant changes going into Olympic year. Ideally I think you do that the year before...but then the rationale isn't necessarily there coming off of 2 world championships.

I hope it ends up being seamless and comfortable for them and they end their career with good results and peace in their hearts. Which means nothing like last season!

 

[aftershocks]

Vanessa said she wants to compete 2 more seasons. Morgan may be looking for a new partner at that point.

In the recent Goldenskate feature article on Vanessa James and Morgan Ciprès, they mention their plans for skating one more season beyond the 2018 Olympics, maybe. And then in the last paragraph:

"[Vanessa], a bit jokingly, suggested [Ciprès] could continue with a new partner since he is three and a half years younger, but Ciprès seemed a bit reluctant about that idea. 'Maybe I’m younger, but to restart with a new partner it’s going to take too much time maybe. I only skated with Vanessa. I don’t know if I can skate with someone else.'"

Meghan (lmao) has no desire to do so. I mean, her partner gets injured and what does she do? Work on what she's already great at, jumping. Does Julie bear the responsibility for not asking for a buy in from the skater to work on body line and posture and general grace?

To each their own views. However, I disagree with you that Meagan has not worked on trying to make improvements in her skating to match her partner. Their body types are completely different, as are their personalities, and yet as they have said, they are the same inside in terms of background and mental focus. Eric and Meagan have a very strong bond that's impossible to define in words. You should check out their interviews with P.J. Kwong on OpenKwongDore podcast.
And this enlightening feature: Duhamel/Radford: 'We are soulmates'
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZpsrkNCg_Y
Eric: "The first time I threw Meagan, she landed perfectly... In that moment, I almost cried. It was such an epiphany..."

Meagan and Eric have worked extremely hard in trying to match each other on the ice in particular ways that can work for them. They have improved leaps and bounds from when they first partnered. I respect and admire them a great deal for their determination, focus and grit over the course of their careers. Their achievements are quite remarkable and hard-won.

Moreover, Meagan has gained more stretch (she's taken some ballet barre classes), and she has her own graceful way of moving over the ice that works for me. I'm as tired of people talking about Gabby Daleman 'lacking refinement,' as I am with all the snobby hate directed at Meagan for not living up to prejudiced notions of how a pairs lady is 'supposed to look'! It's just that: ugly prejudice. Both Gabby and Meagan have skills to-die-for, as well as gorgeous, powerful bodies and charming personalities. The only thing any athlete can do is to work with what God gave them and to maximize their potential!

What determination and sass Meagan has! It's the sass that pairs ladies have got to possess in order to succeed. She's courageous and inspirational to boot, with a beautiful, generous heart. Simply because I have questions and strong reactions to the news of D/R's surprising coaching change does not mean I don't respect Meagan and Eric immensely. As I said, for me it has taken time for the news to settle, partly because I was expecting some U.S. pairs teams to seek out JohnZ's assistance. But perhaps some additional teams might head his way post 2018 Olympics.

 

[julieann]

Whoa! Hold your horsies please. Good grief! I mean seriously, have fun comparing the numbers @julieann. You are the one bringing up comparisons between D/R and J/C in such a huffy OTT manner. Who in the world said anything at all about any team 'being scared or jealous' of anyone!!!? I think those emotions are playing out in your mind, not in any of the skaters' minds, nor in any other fans' minds! Jeesh! What the hecky do you mean by 'offishness'!? Stereotypin' much! I haven't said a word about the ages of any skaters in this thread. I made reference to this being D/R's last season, because they say it is their last season. Vanessa's got a rockin' bod and she looks ageless to me. So does Meagan too!!! Wowza, you are trippin' in some alternate universe @julieann............!

There was nothing "huffy" about my post, re-read from a less passionate place.

You said it was "debatable" D/R had a better season, I simply pointed out, there was no debate, using scores and final placement. The difference is when one team is performing better and having slightly better results and one team is performing worse and still getting medals except for one competition where they drop from first to 7th, perception is lost.

J/C coming in 2nd in a fall competition, 3rd and 4th in the GP, failing to make the GPF, barely getting a medal at Euros over a team who imploded, and going from 10th to 8th doesn't beat D/R record no matter how bad you think they performed.

Yes, Euros was a feather in their cap but it was ONE competition (no, I don't count the cheese fest WTT.) I think they had the best free skate program of the season, but it still only got them 8th in the world to D/R's 7th. A team who was severely injured and had the worst skates of their career, J/C still couldn't beat them.

As I said, I think D/R decision had nothing to do with J/C, they needed a team around them who fits their style and who could elevate them to an individual OGM. J/C have improved so much since last year but they still have refinement to do to reach the level of S/H, S/M, S/K and Y/Z.

 

[clairecloutier]

^^ Why discount James/Cipres's success at WTT? They skated great there, putting out programs just as good as at Europeans. Yeah, it's not as "serious" of a competition as Worlds, but it's still an ISU-sanctioned event, and some statement performances have occurred at WTT in the past (perhaps most notably, D/W in 2012). Beating the current Russian #1s and European champions is always a feat ... and, to me, indicated continued positive momentum for James/Cipres. I'd bet money that Meagan Duhamel, for one, considers J/C as real competition next season. (Meagan is not one to underestimate her competitors. )

 

[MAXSwagg]

Publically yeah, but I'm just saying that Meagan didn't make that comment public herself, so why make a big deal out of it towards her? Plus it's their business, their fued, almost 2 years old, and it's all non-skating related drama that isn't going to matter this season.

I love the quality of Tatiana and Max's skating very much, but I don't get why you hate on her for that feud (instead of your usual hating on her for the skating itself).

Of course she wouldn't say that publicly. But she did try to...let's just say confuse people into thinking that he was making personal comments about them when he was commentating 2015 Worlds. I don't hate on her for any feud. I don't hate on her period. I just give my personal opinion and critique about their skating quality and the programs they choose to do.

 

[MAXSwagg]

We're lucky he hasn't shoe-horned in a reference to Uno yet

This is a pairs discussion. But you're attempt is typical.

 

[overedge]

When did Meagan ever call Max a maxipad?
I've been given official confirmation that she never did and she only learned that nickname from The Skating Lesson.

You and your "official" source need to re-read my post. I said that TSL had reported this. I did not say whether it was accurate or not. If it isn't, take it up with TSL, not me.

 

[aftershocks]

There was nothing "huffy" about my post, re-read from a less passionate place. You said it was "debatable" D/R had a better season, I simply pointed out, there was no debate, using scores and final placement. The difference is when one team is performing better and having slightly better results and one team is performing worse and still getting medals except for one competition where they drop from first to 7th, perception is lost.

J/C coming in 2nd in a fall competition, 3rd and 4th in the GP, failing to make the GPF, barely getting a medal at Euros over a team who imploded, and going from 10th to 8th doesn't beat D/R record no matter how bad you think they performed... As I said, I think D/R decision had nothing to do with J/C ...

Continue on in your alternate numbers-fixated universe @julieann. But get a few things straight: You are the one who brought up comparisons between J/C and D/R in the first place. I only noted that your OTT comment looking down on J/C and attempting to compare J/C with D/R is debatable and unnecessary. Obviously it is debatable, or you wouldn't be spending so much time crunching numbers trying to prove something to satisfy whatever is going on in your own head! I believe that James/Cipres had better programs last season that worked better for them, and I already said that. D/R were defending World champions this past season and there's a lot of rep and respect that goes along with their stellar achievements, as there should be. It's you projecting your thoughts onto me when you refer to 'how bad you think they performed.' Those are your words and your characterization, not mine. Obviously D/R performed below their expectations this season. That is not debatable. Just ask Meagan.

Unlike you, I am not hung up on numbers. I was speaking of music selection and choreography, as well as the tech content and layout strategies D/R made decisions to tweak throughout the season. While D/R's coaching 'update' has no direct connection with J/C, surely D/R chose the coach and choreographer that J/C are working with partly because of the notable breakthrough success J/C achieved with their innovative programs and music choices last season (and Sav/Mas as well). Choreography, music selection, and overall strategy appear to be the main aspects of D/R's skating that they are seeking help with for their final competitive season.

I would not refer to being second in the sp and third in the fp with clean performances while skating last, 'barely getting a medal' at Euros. But you can continue looking down your nose at James/Cipres all you want. There are enough fans and fellow skaters who respect and admire J/C's talent. People who don't appreciate J/C's skating have that right. People who look down on them like yourself, are the ones in the loss column. You are most definitely huffy and superior-acting with your describing James/Cipres' skating as 'offish' and 'messy.' You need to look at things from a less negatively biased perspective. And maybe get over yourself too.

I'm not in the space that you are preoccupied with. You can bury yourself there and have fun while you're at it.

 

[julieann]

^^ Why discount James/Cipres's success at WTT? They skated great there, putting out programs just as good as at Europeans. Yeah, it's not as "serious" of a competition as Worlds, but it's still an ISU-sanctioned event, and some statement performances have occurred at WTT in the past (perhaps most notably, D/W in 2012). Beating the current Russian #1s and European champions is always a feat ... and, to me, indicated continued positive momentum for James/Cipres. I'd bet money that Meagan Duhamel, for one, considers J/C as real competition next season. (Meagan is not one to underestimate her competitors. )

Because the WTT doesn't matter. You'd rather be on the podium at the World Championships than the WTT. Yes, they beat T/M but she was also skating on 10 stitches that she got earlier, would they have still won? Maybe, we'll never know. Besides it's the World Team Trophy so they got 6th.

Please reference the quote where I said they didn't have momentum? Quite the opposite!

J/C have improved so much since last year

but to reach the podium at the GPF, Euros, Olympics and Worlds next season, they'll have to do plenty of work to get to the level of the very top skaters and beat them.

 

[julieann]

Continue on in your alternate numbers-fixated universe

Sorry you don't grasp math...ask Javier Fernandez what he thinks about losing an OBM over 1.18 points. If you also don't think skaters and coaches don't obsess over them, you're wrong again. Yes, it's a sport with beautiful costumes and music but when the difference between winning and losing is 0.01, they obsess for every single point they can find.

 

[kwanfan1818]

As anyone who's heard Duhamel for 10 seconds in KnC would know.

 

[clairecloutier]

Because the WTT doesn't matter. You'd rather be on the podium at the World Championships than the WTT. Yes, they beat T/M but she was also skating on 10 stitches that she got earlier, would they have still won? Maybe, we'll never know. Besides it's the World Team Trophy so they got 6th..

I think we're all aware of the relative importance of Worlds vs. WTT. Nevertheless, what James/Cipres put out at WTT was quite impressive and suggested that their Euros medal was no fluke. I don't think they're quite as far behind the top teams as you seem to think. Next season will tell us more.