U.S. Pairs 2017 - News & Updates, Part VII

[oleada]

I think Peterson's pairs often have weak skating skills. Actually, I think most US pairs do, in comparison to the international field (but among the top US coaches, Peterson's pairs seem to be particularly weak in this area). I think it really hurts them internationally.

Also, Jim is so cute but someone needs to update his music collection. I agree that the choreography could be a lot better. Isn't John Kerr in Florida? Look what he did for Aliona and Bruno.

I do think his teams tend to have a nice connection with each other.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I always wondered why no USA team is knocking down Natalia Mishkutenok's door in Texas.. Hellloooooo Olympic Champion and silver medalist as well. Best Ladies pair ever besides Aliona and Gordeeva.

I mean if teams can flock to Zimmerman with a world bronze medal to his credit why arent people stalking Natalia?

Id be holding her hostage.

If I was a pair skater (me and Angela of course) Id want to recreate like 4 of her programs!

And I still dont know did Delilah ever do pairs? Or skate? I dont remember her and yet she has many top USA teams.....

 

[clairecloutier]

Yes, Dalilah trained and competed in pairs. See the Olympic qualification, pairs, thread.

 

[jdonavan]

Also, Jim is so cute but someone needs to update his music collection. I agree that the choreography could be a lot better. Isn't John Kerr in Florida? Look what he did for Aliona and Bruno.

I do think his teams tend to have a nice connection with each other.[/QUOTE]

Read Tarah and Danny's blog that was posted yesterday. They are using Shae-Lynn for the long and Massimo Scalli for the Short. It seems he is trying to make improvements in this area. Link: http://figureskatersonline.com/kayne-oshea/moving-forward/

 

[Spiralgraph]

Thank goodness Peterson has realized he shouldn't do choreography for all his teams. Say what you will about him, but his pairs do have a nice connection to each other and they are usually well prepared at Nationals. And he did train Deanna Stellato into a very respectable pair skater in six months.

But I'd be very happy if he recruited another high level coach or two to his team.

 

[clairecloutier]

Thanks @HeatherC for sharing Tarah/Danny's blog post. I had been wondering about them and how they were doing.

I think with music, the most important thing is that the skaters believe in it and personally relate to it. It sounds like that's the case with Tarah/Danny's choices so I'm happy for them. The music may not be innovative, but, if they love it, hopefully they'll skate well to it. Swan Lake in particular is an ambitious choice, but I'm interested to see what their choreographers do with it.

It sounds like last season was even tougher for them than we realized. Wish them good health and good luck next year.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Even tho its from Phil some notes singling out Scimerim as THE choice..

Hmmm, so if Chris wasnt a jump-botcher would Scimerim had finished in 5th place? I do remember the point total being rather close. Also the 4Twist would have helped them had they brought it in.


6. No matter what happens at the 2018 U.S. Championships, the husband-wife team of Alexa Scimeca Knierim and Chris Knierim deserves the lone U.S. pairs spot at the upcoming Winter Olympics.

If they are healthy, that is.

Despite having lost the first half of this season as Scimeca Knierim fought a stomach illness that required three surgical interventions, the couple skated respectably in finishing 10th(barely four points from fifth) at the world championships, just their second competition since last year's worlds.

The Knierims set a personal best in the short program. Their big mistake in the free skate likely meant the difference between 10th and fifth in a pairs event of remarkably high quality.

Some may carp that, despite the stunning failure of U.S. champions Haven Denney and Brandon Frazier to qualify for the free skate, even a ninth-place finish would have earned a second Olympic spot for Team USA. Truth be told, though, the Knierims are the only U.S. team with a chance for even a top-10 finish next winter in South Korea.

http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2017/04/04/222260052

 

[clairecloutier]

^^ Always so enlightening to hear from Phil.

(The guy who gave us this lovely tweet.)

 

[VGThuy]

^^ Always so enlightening to hear from Phil.

(The guy who gave us this lovely tweet.)

Classy.

 

[Spiralgraph]

Phil is like a yoyo. The second the Knierems or Nathan Chen etc. disappoints him, Phil will turn on them faster than a blink of an eye.

 

[clairecloutier]

I decided to look at the Grand Prix possibilities for U.S. pairs next year. This past season, pairs were guaranteed 2 GP events if they were in the top 10 at Worlds. They were guaranteed 1 event if they were in the Top 24 of World Standings, or secondarily, the Top 24 on the Season's-Best List. For this past season's criteria (which could change), see here.

So, at this moment, here is where most of the U.S. senior pairs stand in terms of their Worlds (WC) placement, World Standing (WS) ranking, or Season's-Best (SB) ranking. I'm including in this list the 2 pairs who competed in juniors this year but will be seniors next year.

Knierims -- 10 WC, 7 WS, 12 SB

Kayne/O'Shea -- 13 WS, 24 SB

Denney/Frazier -- 20 WC, 15 WS, 14 SB

Castelli/Tran -- 19 WS, 22 SB

Cain/LeDuc -- 44 WS, 25 SB

Stellato/Bartholomay -- no WS, 40 SB

Liu/Johnson -- 24 WS, 46 SB

Pfund/Santillan -- 57 WS, 51 SB

Smith/Reiss -- 86 WS, 43 SB

Shaughnessy/Morgan -- 79 WS, 55 SB

Calalang/Sidhu -- 30 WS, 39 SB

Fields/Stevens -- 80 WS, no SB

Digerness/Neudecker -- 71 WS, 66 SB


So based on these numbers, and IF the Grand Prix rules are the same this year (which they may not be), and if USFSA puts all these pairs forward for selection, this is how our GP qualification would look:


Knierims -- 2 spots
Kayne/O'Shea -- 1 spot
Denney/Frazier -- 1 spot
Castelli/Tran -- 1 spot
Liu/Johnson -- 1 spot

All other U.S. pairs would need Skate America host spots or have to hope for replacement spots.

If I've made mistakes, let me know ....

 

[Chemistry66]

So based on these numbers, and IF the Grand Prix rules are the same this year (which they may not be), and if USFSA puts all these pairs forward for selection, this is how our GP qualification would look:


Knierims -- 2 spots
Kayne/O'Shea -- 1 spot
Denney/Frazier -- 1 spot
Castelli/Tran -- 1 spot
Liu/Johnson -- 1 spot

All other U.S. pairs would need Skate America host spots or have to hope for replacement spots.

If I've made mistakes, let me know ....

Not necessarily. As long as all those teams guaranteed 1 or 2 spots obtain their guaranteed spots, then according to Statement 2.2g:

If any entries remains open and if all Skaters/Couples as defined in paragraph 2.2. a), b) and c) above have been selected for one (1) event, the Organizing ISU Member may select any Skater/Couple with a top 75 seasonal best score to fill the open entries.

So Cain/Leduc, Stellato/Bartholomay, Pfund/Santillan, Smith/Reiss, Shaughnessy/Morgan, Calalang/Sidhu, and Digerness/Neudecker would all be eligible for a potential spot even though they would not be guaranteed one, without having to hope for Skate America/replacement spots.

The rest of your post seems pretty solid though (and thanks for cataloging all the WC/WS/SB info!)

 

[clairecloutier]

Last year, I don't think we got much in the initial round beyond our guaranteed slots. Like for example I remember Castelli/Tran were only guaranteed 1 and got 1. Same, I believe, with Aaron/Settlage. Kayne/OShea had 2, I think, but 1 of them was SA (host pick, which they got as National champions?).

ETA: There's just so many variables. For instance, a few couples in the current Top 24 SB or WS have split. Do the teams below them get moved up for the purposes of the Grand Prix, or not? Cain/LeDuc are SB 25, which means they're not guaranteed 1 GP. However SB 21 and SB 23 have split; so do Cain/LeDuc get moved up to SB 23, thereby possibly earning a guaranteed spot?

It's all making my head go so I guess should stop thinking about it so much.

 

[msmandaskates]

It's all making my head go so I guess should stop thinking about it so much.

Pretty much my motto for US pairs

 

[her grace]

Oh, Cain/LeDuc are going to be on the GP. USFS will make sure of that.

 

[Jem X]

This upcoming year, Skate America is on Thanksgiving weekend, as I recall. I believe it is the last Grand Prix event. Might give US pairs skaters only one chance for a GP event.

 

[clairecloutier]

Oh, Cain/LeDuc are going to be on the GP. USFS will make sure of that.

Yeah, I fully expect them to do some politiking there. I also won't be surprised if Cain/LeDuc are assigned to Skate America upfront, along with the Knierims, instead of later on as a TBD.

 

[LilJen]

Cain/LeDuc got assigned to World Team Trophy. Over Castelli/Tran. Which kind of ticks me off. . . it's as if USFS are just telling C/T to give up and retire already.

 

[VGThuy]

Cain/LeDuc got assigned to World Team Trophy. Over Castelli/Tran. Which kind of ticks me off. . . it's as if USFS are just telling C/T to give up and retire already.

They've been doing that since the 4CC selection and World alternates list order. Cain/LeDuc are being groomed.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Do the teams below them get moved up for the purposes of the Grand Prix, or not?

No. The SB list doesn't change, not to remove split couples, retired skaters, skaters taking the season off, senior age-ineligible skaters, or skaters remaining junior.

If WTT is handled like it has been in the past, results will count for the SB list. They didn't last year for the Team Challenge event.

Skaters can be removed from the WS list if they split or retire. People have posted here that this happens if the Fed notifies the ISU before GP selection. I would think that submitting new teams as split couples would be enough notice.

Sadly, Kayne/O'Shea were one place shy at 2016 Worlds to be considered as a return couple.

 

[Josh78]

Cain/LeDuc got assigned to World Team Trophy. Over Castelli/Tran. Which kind of ticks me off. . . it's as if USFS are just telling C/T to give up and retire already.

Sad to say, I would not be surprised if they HAVE been told that point-blank OR that there are people in the USFSA mean enough to say it...

 

[her grace]

I've felt pretty indifferent to C/T, but next year I'm going to uber them. Good grief, how many wuz gifted assignments are Cain/LeDuc going to get?

 

[jdonavan]

I've felt pretty indifferent to C/T, but next year I'm going to uber them. Good grief, how many wuz gifted assignments are Cain/LeDuc going to get?

A. Lot.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Sad to say, I would not be surprised if they HAVE been told that point-blank OR that there are people in the USFSA mean enough to say it...

I thought USFS was in the business of keeping coaches and rinks in business. Hard to do if you outright tell the reigning silver medallists (by 2.05 points) who meet envelope criteria that they should go away.

 

[Dobre]

You guys. If you & USFSA make me feel too sorry for Castelli & Tran, I am bound to fall in love with them. And I must not do that. He has no jumps. She has landed that second throw in the FS all of one time. I will not fall in love with this team.

Despite Mervin's fabulous How-To-Deal-With-Pair-Girls flowchart.

 

[VGThuy]

Maybe this is what they need to add that extra fire to their belly and start landing stuff.

 

[Spiralgraph]

I still can't get into C/T that Journey program never enthused me, probably because it was never skated clean.
If the USFS has promoted C/L over C/T they only have themselves to blame. Start landing jumps, start skating like you really want it, are ready to become National champs, not buckling under their own nerves.

 

[clairecloutier]

Brandon Frazier posted some comments about Worlds on his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/brandon.frazier.1238?fref=nf&pnref=story

I think he & Haven would really appreciate any messages of support right now.

 

[LilJen]

You guys. If you & USFSA make me feel too sorry for Castelli & Tran, I am bound to fall in love with them. And I must not do that. He has no jumps. She has landed that second throw in the FS all of one time. I will not fall in love with this team.

Despite Mervin's fabulous How-To-Deal-With-Pair-Girls flowchart.

Too late. I already fell in love with Mervin. And Castelli is and always will be a rock star, even if she doesn't land the jumps.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

Brandon Frazier posted some comments about Worlds on his Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/brandon.frazier.1238?fref=nf&pnref=story

I think he & Haven would really appreciate any messages of support right now.

Thanks for the heads up, Claire! I see that Mervin left an awesome message of support