U.S. Ladies [#17]: Heading to Helsinki in a Handbasket

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^^ :rofl: Seems as if I wandered into the wrong thread.

essence_of_soy said:
Last I heard, they're opening a bakery together in Torrence called Yeast of Eden
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Perhaps you meant MK and Sean Rabbitt have cornered the venture. :D

:lol: Great name for a bakery no matter who opens it. And it may even exist already somewhere in these United States. :p
 
kwanfan1818 said:
There's this:
http://www.upout.com/blog/san-franc...n-francisco-pizza-in-upcoming-film-inside-out

and this:
https://mobile.twitter.com/theyeastofeden
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th...ofmouth/2012/aug/13/yeast-eden-future-of-beer

and in the US:
https://untappd.com/YeastOfEden1315

and, finally, these:
https://m.facebook.com/pages/Yeast-of-Eden/120569657955821
http://forward.com/food/329904/a-thoughtful-loaf-from-yeast-of-eden/
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Yowza! But well yep, there's nothing really all that new under the sun. Lots of people apparently come up with similar or the same ideas. That's why patent and trademark attorneys are kept so busy. :p

Unfortunately, that's likely also why we had the Battle of the Carmens. :drama: It was considered such a potent selling point at the time for ladies Olympic figure skating event. :rolleyes: I'd have much rather preferred seeing Witt in gaudy red selling the sex and killing herself, whilst Debi in maybe an alternate universe might have ditched the overdone Carmen and with clean 3/3 combo and class flown away with the gold* as the Firebird, or even with a dramatic rendition of Black Swan, well before the movie was ever thought of. :D


*Or at least silver since Witt's freedom apparently depended upon her winning another OGM
 
You rang?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAIOV6HoZ70 Ash (AdaRipp too since they are sometimes stuck to each other like glue)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwehzXPJlRQ Ash fluff

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OeTMtTnbgg U.S. ladies intro (Nats 2017)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xu_8bjuP-XY Interviews: Karen, Ashley, Mirai

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmMbWshv2Og Gracie & Ash

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XToQqs8PAy4 Ash & Adam photo shoot

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKL6g4swoOM funny compilation (first time I saw this one) :lol:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXM2x46kZYo Ashley Instagram stories

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjp4NDfsEmM Mariah Bell feature on TSL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGNLvyF9dIo Mariah interview after SA 2016

2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76vbGtsrtyY Mirai sp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rllahQ41SI8 Mariah sp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NixhPhyYW4w Karen sp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6wVgfL4-e8 Ashley sp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0apfKhv73Yo Tessa sp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYSIwBPC-i4 Caroline sp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e9KzqcPO0I U.S. Ladies FP grp 4

2016
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PwKOHkpAfE Polina sp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNKBiQh2Sh8 Mirai sp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sj-Psxnx30 Tyler Pierce sp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTxMwDa6IpI Ash sp
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9p7ml2Ta34 Better Ash sp @SC w/Marissa magic dress :))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-S2UT0Qqh8 Gracie sp
Wow, I'd forgotten how Ash was dumped on and Gracie was held up in sp! :duh:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFKQKrMbK8Y U.S. Ladies FP grp 4
 
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The U.S. earned 7 JGP spots for the 2017-2018 season on the strength of being the 4th-highest placing country. Competition for those spots should be intense! Early frontrunners include K. Nguyen, Andrews, Lin, Paganini, Huang, Cui, Kalyan, and Harrell.

Next season, I hope that USFS gives the top juniors at least 2 international assignments (ex. JGP + Challenger, Challenger + Senior B if they already have jr. minimums) because I think it hurt Tennell and Andrews to go to junior worlds with almost no international reputation. Create some buzz for the best skaters, please!
 
her grace said:
The U.S. earned 7 JGP spots for the 2017-2018 season on the strength of being the 4th-highest placing country. Competition for those spots should be intense! Early frontrunners include K. Nguyen, Andrews, Lin, Paganini, Huang, Cui, Kalyan, and Harrell.

Next season, I hope that USFS gives the top juniors at least 2 international assignments (ex. JGP + Challenger, Challenger + Senior B if they already have jr. minimums) because I think it hurt Tennell and Andrews to go to junior worlds with almost no international reputation. Create some buzz for the best skaters, please!
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Tessa Hong needs to get out there and compete on the JGP again too. She should have stayed Junior nationally she might have done better and gone to Jr Worlds.
 
Jammers said:
Tessa Hong needs to get out there and compete on the JGP again too. She should have stayed Junior nationally she might have done better and gone to Jr Worlds.
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She should but she probably won't. From what I can see, she's aiming for the Olympics.
 
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Congratulations to Bradie Tennell on a job well done this week ... I haven't been her biggest fan, but she skated well at Junior Worlds. No missed jumps in the competition, just one minor jump error, and only 1 2 underrotations in the whole competition ... She did great. She couldn't compete with the top girls here in terms of presentation/star power/skating skills, but she put out the best skate she could at this time. For next year ... they really need to focus on her artistry. Get a really good choreographer if they can afford it, pick some interesting music.

Too bad about the missed jumping passes from Starr Andrews in the FS, and she had a few underrotations, but she did okay overall. She was really at a disadvantage here, with almost no international experience or reputation coming in (just the Golden Bear event, right?). But not bad. Hopefully she gets more opportunities next season. She is a very interesting skater, very watchable.

Determining those few junior ladies JGP assignments next year is not going to be an easy task. I just hope that the junior/novice ladies who have made a splash toward the end of this season can have consistent training summers this year so they can put their best foot forward at club competitions and grab those JGP spots. It's important to build from season to season (not that they don't know that, of course).
 
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her grace said:
The U.S. earned 7 JGP spots for the 2017-2018 season on the strength of being the 4th-highest placing country. Competition for those spots should be intense! Early frontrunners include K. Nguyen, Andrews, Lin, Paganini, Huang, Cui, Kalyan, and Harrell.

Next season, I hope that USFS gives the top juniors at least 2 international assignments (ex. JGP + Challenger, Challenger + Senior B if they already have jr. minimums) because I think it hurt Tennell and Andrews to go to junior worlds with almost no international reputation. Create some buzz for the best skaters, please!
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I'm not sure how much better Andrews and Tennell would have done had they competed more.
Besides, USFS already has a huge crew of jr ladies to send, and every time someone shows promise, I'm sure they get pressured to send that girl. There is no way to tell before hand who should have gotten another chance at another competition.
 
Bradie Tennell was injured last summer and didn't compete until UGL Regionals in October. Then she was given the ISU Challenger assignment (her senior international debut) and won the bronze medal at Tallinn Trophy in November with 2 ISU personal bests of 114.54 in FS & 168.98 total.

Tennell was 4th after the SP at Junior Worlds last year (3Lz+3T, 3F, 2A fall) but dropped to 14th in the FS (3 falls on downgraded triples) to finish 11th overall. This year's FS was a big improvement even though she didn't attempt 3Lz+3T or 2A+3T. She had 2 underrotations called (3Lz+3T< in SP & 3Lz<+2T in FS) in her programs and placed just about where I expected/hoped in Taipei.

Final placements at 2017 Junior Worlds:
7 Bradie TENNELL USA 161.36 7 7
12 Starr ANDREWS USA 149.05 9 12

SP:
7 Bradie TENNELL USA 57.47 32.53 24.94 6.25 6.00 6.39 6.25 6.29 0.00 #25
9 Starr ANDREWS USA 55.83 32.85 22.98 5.86 5.39 5.82 5.86 5.79 0.00 #16

FS:
7 Bradie TENNELL USA 103.89 52.81 51.08 6.54 6.07 6.43 6.50 6.39 0.00 #17
12 Starr ANDREWS USA 93.22 44.06 49.16 6.43 5.82 6.11 6.25 6.11 0.00 #16

Andrews' two missed Axels (both called 'A' with zero points) were costly in today's FS -- the first one was supposed to be 2A+3T. From what I recall, she didn't really show enough to USFS until she won U.S. Challenge Skate in SLC last September (apparently too late for JGP consideration), which led to her international debut at Golden Bear in late October. I had (eta: optimistically, earlier in this thread) projected around a 8-10 finish for her in Taipei and she would have attained it had she landed her planned double Axels in the FS. I agree with @clairecloutier that Andrews is "a very interesting skater, very watchable" and I hope she continues to make progress on her jump consistency (flip is the newest triple in her FS & she landed 3F cleanly in the second half today) and work on improving her 3Lz entry edge.
 
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Go Bradie!
I think Starr will be much better if she goes to JW next year. She has hardly any international experience, and I'd imagine having one of your first international competitions be JW could be intimidating. Watching her each year at Nationals, it seems she's improving a lot each summer on her skating as well, so I'm looking forward to seeing her develop.

Frida80 said:
She should but she probably won't. From what I can see, she's aiming for the Olympics.
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I thought she moved to Senior for other reasons? I can't remember what those reasons were, so maybe I'm just crazy.
I honestly don't know why Tessa thinks she can get to the Olympics for 2018 if it is the case that she's aiming for the Olympics. 2022 is a definite possibility. She's talented for her age and all, but she has little to no international experience (only two JGPs where she finished 6th and 5th), her personal best international score is 152.62 (nationals was 168.74, still only good enough for 10th), and there's plenty of skaters ahead of her that have much more legitimate resumes with which to get on that team (Wagner, Nagasu, Bell, Chen, Gold, Hicks).

Then again, I'm pessimistic enough to say that any Juniors moving up this year specifically to get on the Olympic team are being unrealistic with the current top US women, but I suppose if they really want to... Maybe there'll be a surprise?
 
jlai said:
I'm not sure how much better Andrews and Tennell would have done had they competed more.
Besides, USFS already has a huge crew of jr ladies to send, and every time someone shows promise, I'm sure they get pressured to send that girl. There is no way to tell before hand who should have gotten another chance at another competition.
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I think Tennell could have beaten Konstantinova, who IMO, got some reputation points.

That being said, it would be great if one or two girls separates themselves from the pack so it's easy for USFS to see who deserves more assignments. That wasn't particularly the case this season.
 
Andrews was also a last minute replacement, which couldn't have been an easy situation, either. All things considered, I think she did fine and hopefully this will spur her on to work hard and improve in the off season.

As for Hong, IIRC she has a very "motivated" skate mom, who may be behind the push for the 2018 Olympics. Regardless, I think the JGP is the place for her next year as she still has minimal international experience and would at best be looking at Skate America, and even that doesn't seem super likely. Competing on the JGP in an Olympic year worked out fine for Polina Edmunds. She won her two events and made the final, which definitely boosted her reputation a lot.
 
@Stephanie Yes, I am suspecting the "motivated" skate mom angle, but I don't want to presume as I haven't heard rumors about her mother, as opposed to a few others.

I think Edmunds had a very different situation going into the Olympic year though. As you said, she won both events and made the final. While we don't know how Hong will do, the insanely strong Russian and Japanese contingent year after year on the JGP makes that feat seem hard for Hong to accomplish (well, the winning both events part).
Also, when Edmunds went in 2014, there wasn't a strong group of US ladies fighting for that third spot. Wagner and Gold were pretty much locks, but there wasn't really anyone I'd say was a strong candidate for that third spot. Mirai could have been (she had gotten one GP medal each preceding season), but she didn't have a coach, which doesn't exactly make USFSA confident heading into an Olympics. Gao and Zawadzki hadn't medaled at a GP that season. Cesario, Hicks (at that point), Miller, Cain, Long, Bell, and Kaiser hadn't gotten any Senior GP medals. Miller, Keiser, and Gao had made the JGP final, with Miller getting 2nd the season before the Olympic one. Still, the Olympic year Miller only got 12th at her one JGP. So that's a total of only three US ladies that had medaled at a Senior GP to that point, with only one (Wagner) ever making a Senior GP final. All in all a pretty weak field for the 2014 team. None had medaled at Worlds.

Going into 2018, it looks like it will be a lot different with a lot more depth. We have 4 ladies who have medaled at a Senior GP during the current Olympic cycle (Wagner, Gold, Bell, and Hicks), 6 ladies who have medaled at a Senior GP in their career (Wagner, Gold, Bell, Hicks, Zhang, and Nagasu), 2 ladies who have made the GPF (Wagner, Gold, and Zhang), and one who medaled at Worlds and the GPF (Wagner). To add to that, 4 (Wagner, Zhang, Edmunds, and Nagasu) have medaled at 4CC. That's not to mention that all the top contenders but Wagner (Chen, Bell, Gold, Zhang, Hicks, Nagasu, and Edmunds) has medaled at a Senior B this Olympic cycle.

It's not that that means we necessarily have a guaranteed Olympic medal with the Japanese and Russian teams this Olympics, but it means we have a stacked field at the National level competing for those 2-3 spots on the team, so making it will be insane.
 
Stephanie said:
Andrews was also a last minute replacement, which couldn't have been an easy situation, either. All things considered, I think she did fine and hopefully this will spur her on to work hard and improve in the off season.

As for Hong, IIRC she has a very "motivated" skate mom, who may be behind the push for the 2018 Olympics. Regardless, I think the JGP is the place for her next year as she still has minimal international experience and would at best be looking at Skate America, and even that doesn't seem super likely. Competing on the JGP in an Olympic year worked out fine for Polina Edmunds. She won her two events and made the final, which definitely boosted her reputation a lot.
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Mothers only want the best for their children, so I can't criticize her actions. I just worry the effect the have on Tessa long term, in terms of her domestic and international reputation. The competition was vicious at JW this year. Being on the top of the JW podium is the same as being one of the best skaters in the world. Same thing with the JGPF. It would be a mistake not to compete and show international judges that she can compete with the top junior skaters in the works. I hope Frank realizes this as well.
 
Willin said:
I honestly don't know why Tessa thinks she can get to the Olympics for 2018 if it is the case that she's aiming for the Olympics. 2022 is a definite possibility. She's talented for her age and all, but she has little to no international experience (only two JGPs where she finished 6th and 5th), her personal best international score is 152.62 (nationals was 168.74, still only good enough for 10th), and there's plenty of skaters ahead of her that have much more legitimate resumes with which to get on that team (Wagner, Nagasu, Bell, Chen, Gold, Hicks).

Then again, I'm pessimistic enough to say that any Juniors moving up this year specifically to get on the Olympic team are being unrealistic with the current top US women, but I suppose if they really want to... Maybe there'll be a surprise?
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The current crop of US women? I must have been following a different crop than you because Nagasu, Bell, Chen, Gold and Hicks have all been incredibly inconsistent thus far in their careers and this season. The door is IMO wide open for skaters to step through and try to earn an Olympic berth. With the exception of Wagner, that 2nd and possible 3rd spot is up for grabs. Why shouldn't Hong and any other skater dream of making it to the Olympics in 2018? Might as well go for broke now and work their butts off because 5 years is a long time, and anything can happen waiting for 2022 to roll around.
 
Frida80 said:
:confused:

I thought she was Taiwanese? Is she Korean and I've made a mistake all this time? How embarrassing!:slinkaway
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It's hard to tell from the last name. But it says on her Icenetwork Profile "Parents are Miyung Hong and Yong Hwa Hong" -- these sound more like Korean names.

I think she might as well go for it at the senior level next year. She has the right profile for someone like Frank Carroll to lead her to a breakout Olympic year. After all, Frank Carroll did an amazing job with both Mirai Nagasu and Gracie Gold at the last two Olympics, after a relatively short time. It would in any case very hard for her to make a splash at the crowded junior level, with all these amazing Russian and Japanese girls, and so few U.S. JGP spots.
 
Mayra said:
The current crop of US women? I must have been following a different crop than you because Nagasu, Bell, Chen, Gold and Hicks have all been incredibly inconsistent thus far in their careers and this season. The door is IMO wide open for skaters to step through and try to earn an Olympic berth. With the exception of Wagner, that 2nd and possible 3rd spot is up for grabs. Why shouldn't Hong and any other skater dream of making it to the Olympics in 2018? Might as well go for broke now and work their butts off because 5 years is a long time, and anything can happen waiting for 2022 to roll around.
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Based on the selection Criteria to chose for the Olympics, Tessa is at a huge disadvantage. The only way she can go the Olympics is if she either makes the JGPF or somehow goes to a GP an medals there. She virtually ha no chance at that. There are too many other ladies that have accomplished much more than her and want that SA slot too. Senior Bs will be in high demand from lots of ladies like Vivian, Bradie, Angela, Karen, Mariah, Mirai, Gracie, Polina, Courtney, Tyler, Amber, Caroline, Etc... All of whom have shown that they can medal at these events. The best she can hope for is one senior B. What's more, she still has Osgood Schlatter still. She'd be much better off at the JGP.
 
@Mayra Sure, Nagasu/Bell/Chen/Gold/Hicks are inconsistent, but they've done a whole lot more than any of the Juniors or Juniors competing as Seniors nationally right now. Not to mention Nagasu and Bell are getting a lot better, Gold still has potential (and we've a while to see how much the coaching change has corrected her trajectory), and Chen has a potential for a high score if she hits her jumps.

As scoring history stands right now, if those 8 skaters are at their best at Nationals, no one but them has a shot at the Olympic team. If all eight skaters are at their recent worst while the rest of the skaters hit their PBs (highly unlikely), Wagner is essentially a lock, but five additional skaters have a shot at making the team.

They can try and dream, but it's far less realistic for them to make it than it would've been in 2014. As I explained in my post, in 2014 there was no good choice for that 3rd spot. For 2018, there's eight skaters that could make a case for why they would be a solid choice for the team. If anyone but the eight I see as the most competitive makes that team, I'm betting on Amber Glenn.

For Reference:
*Note that reputation does play a role in this, but it will also play a role in Olympic selection and Olympic results
Seniors: (Worst performances of last two seasons and PB ranked by PB)
  1. Wagner (CoC 2016 - 181.38), (NHK 2015 - 179.33); PB is 215.39 at 2016 Worlds
  2. Gold (Golden Spin 2016 - 159.02), (4CC 2016 - 178.39); PB is 211.29 at 2016 World
  3. Nagasu (SC 2016 - 151.42), (Nebehorn 2015 - 159.67); PB is 194.95 at 2017 4CC
  4. Bell (Nepela 2016 - 161.72), (Nepela 2015 - 135.43); PB is 191.59 at 2016 SA
  5. Edmunds [Senior Career] (CoC 2014 - 161.27), (NHK 2014 - 161.79); PB is 187.50 at 2014 Worlds
  6. Hicks (Finlandia 2016 - 149.80), (Nebelhorn 2015 - 162.85); PB is 183.12 at 2015 NHK Trophy
  7. Chen (Golden Spin 2016 - 155.63), (US Classic 2015 - 159.18); PB is 179.39 at 2016 CoC
  8. Zhang (Challenge Cup 2017 - 166.93); PB is 176.48 at 2008 GPF
-Ranked by international worst for the past two seasons skated:
1. Wagner (179.33) 2. Zhang (166.93)* 3. Edmunds (161.27) 4. Gold (159.02) 5. Chen (155.63) 6. Nagasu (151.42) 7. Hicks (149.80) 8. Bell (135.43)
-Ranked by international worst this season:
1. Wagner (181.38) 2. Zhang (166.93)* 3. Bell (161.72) 4. Gold (159.02) 5. Chen (155.63) 6. Nagasu (151.42) 7. Hicks (149.80)
*With a sample size of one international, she should probably be excluded here (she didn't skate internationally in previous two seasons before the current one)

Juniors/Seniors at National Level/Up and Comers Eligible for Olympics: (PB and ranking against top contenders)
Feel free to add other skaters with better PBs who could be in this category; I included those ladies that competed Senior at nationals 2017/2016 (that people here talk about) or have had rumors about moving up to senior for the 2018 Olympic season
  1. Glenn - PB: 183.60 (6th best PB, 1st compared to worst skates)
  2. Le - PB: 176.30 (9th best PB, 2nd compared to worst skates)
  3. Pierce - PB: 171.72 (9th best PB, 2nd compared to worst skates)
  4. Tennell - PB: 168.98 (9th best PB, 2nd compared to worst skates)
  5. A. Wang - PB: 166.80 (9th best PB, 3rd compared to worst skates)
  6. Hong - PB: 152.62 (9th best PB, 6th compared to worst skates)
  7. Rydberg - PB: 149.35 (9th best PB, 8th compared to worst skates)
  8. Andrews - PB: 149.05 (9th best PB, 8th compared to worst skates)
  9. E. Chen - PB 138.88 (9th best PB, 8th compared to worst skates)
 
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