Interview with Nina Mozer

Coquelicot14

Well-Known Member
Messages
393
Lol!!!! Are you conveniently forgetting Boris Yeltsin and the fact that he drank the country away whilst his daughter gifted it to Berezovsky & Co?

Huh? But it's so obvious, there is nothing to even debate. Even political polar opposites can agree on that. It's like saying the sky is blue. Plus, both Borises are dead.
I'm just answering why people hate Gorbachev, I cannot write an all inclusive thesis here, nor do I want to. ;)
 

Jammers

Well-Known Member
Messages
7,568
No he didn't ruin USSR, he mismanaged to the point where it fell apart and made millions miserable in the process. We needed a gradual change, like China, not the kind of crap he pulled.
And I believe millions that had to live through that and know the situation from within, know what they hate him for. It's 10 years of people's lives they will never get back...

Why are we talking politics?

Look at it from an Figure Skating stand point, the horrible state of rinks and facilities that were in the 90s, the sport almost died out from the lack of funding and care. This sport flourished in the USSR! Only now is it finally getting back. Coaches, skaters, came back.. only in the past 8-9 years has the government funding and support returned. Yes, it's run differently, it adapted, but no thanks to Gorbi.
Seems to me Russians were miserable the whole time the communists took over in 1917. Stalin was a madman who made Gorbachev look like a saint. Those poor people were brainwashed and treated like crap for over 70 years.
 

2sk8

Well-Known Member
Messages
894
Seems to me Russians were miserable the whole time the communists took over in 1917. Stalin was a madman who made Gorbachev look like a saint. Those poor people were brainwashed and treated like crap for over 70 years.
Yep, and lots of them weren't Russians, and didn't want to be part of the USSR anyway...
 

quartz

scratching at the light
Messages
20,057
I've been long appalled by how little Americans know about Canada - I vacation there a lot, so talk to a lot of Americans.

Most don't even know the names of our three major cities, nor the names of any of the provinces.

So I was surprised when in Arizona a few months ago, and several Americans I spoke with and told that I was Canadian commented on the Fort McMurray wildfires. Of course, none remembered the name of the town or the province - but those wildfires put Canada on the map in the U.S.
My brother in Michigan says they really don't get much news about Canada reported in their media, but they knew ALL ABOUT Rob Ford's antics. :D
I also have family in Iowa and California, and when I visit those places I get the sense that many people I chat with are mainly concerned with their own backyard. They really don't seem to think or know much about other places in the US, let alone globally.

Once when I was in L.A., and wearing shorts, my sister's neighbors (who knew I was from Canada) asked me if I had just bought them. When I replied that I had brought them from home, they were shocked that you could buy shorts in Canada. :eek:

Another time we were in New York, and camping in a valley with mountains on either side. We didn't have a good map of the area, but knew we were most likely in between the Catskills and the Adirondacks, so we asked the girl at a tourist information booth lookout which mountains were which.
Her response, was "why, I've lived here my whole life, and I just don't know!" She actually looked surprised we even mentioned two different mountain ranges. :rolleyes:
 

TAHbKA

Cats and garlic lover
Messages
20,872
I don't want to get too much into it, since we are technically supposed to be talking figure skating, but in a nutshell, his lack of planning, foresight and irresponsibility led to the fall of industry and the horror the 1990s were for most people in the country. It's a miracle the country survived that. But like they say, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger!
The country would collapse anyway and fall apart anyway. Thanks to Gorbachev it was much less bloody than it could have been.
With the fall of the USSR the skaters lost all the privileges they had. It must have been very difficult.
Yes, it must have been very difficult to have to lead a life of normal people and not privileged ones. Poor poor skaters...
Many Russian coaches left Russia for the west, but it seems some have returned and the conditions for skaters are better.
They didn't leave because the conditions were bad, they left because they were finally allowed to leave. One of the kicks about being an athlete was being allowed to travel outside the USSR. With the KGB agent on tow, of course.
 
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feraina

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,400
Americans are shockingly ignorant. Of course there are exceptions. But...

When I visited Brisbane Australia once, and confessed to a taxi driver that I had never heard of Brisbane (Australia's third largest city) until that trip, he was really surprised. He then proceeded to name all the American state capitols one by one. I think he knew more of them than the average NYC or CA taxi driver, never mind Texas or Kansas...

So while the US is geographically isolated, that can't be everything. I think it has more to do with the broken public educational system. There's systematic underfunding and undermining of the public schools by many of those in power. It's shameful how little useful info kids are being taught. The amount of math the average public high school graduate knows is also shockingly little compared to all European and Asian countries.
 

Vash01

Fan of Yuzuru, T&M, P&C
Messages
55,601
(
I've been long appalled by how little Americans know about Canada - I vacation there a lot, so talk to a lot of Americans.

Most don't even know the names of our three major cities, nor the names of any of the provinces.

So I was surprised when in Arizona a few months ago, and several Americans I spoke with and told that I was Canadian commented on the Fort McMurray wildfires. Of course, none remembered the name of the town or the province - but those wildfires put Canada on the map in the U.S.

Some Americans don't even know the names of cities/states in their own country. :)

Long ago I read a true story in a magazine or newspaper about a woman speaking of her son who had applied for admission to a university. My memory is sketchy on this, but I do remember that her son was born in Santa Clara (California) and went to high school in New Mexico. Someone at the other end assumed that he was a foreign student. :)

Arizona (I live here) has wildfires every year, so no surprise they remembered that.
 

feraina

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,400
Could you name all of the American capitals? Why didn't you ever hear of Brisbane? What's Nina Mozer's excuse for all the ignorance she displayed in that interview?
Good questions. Well, Australian geography was never taught in any US school curriculum I was exposed to. And no news about Brisbane ever came through. This was before the great flood of Queensland a few years ago -- that did come through in the news.

I did have to memorize all the state capitols in a Texas high school, but does the average US taxi driver even graduate from high school? More to the point, how come an Australian taxi driver learned about American state capitols when American kids aren't taught anything about Australia?

I don't know what you are getting at anyway. Are you saying Americans are well educated or not? Or are you suggesting I'm particularly ignorant? And what does it have to do with Nina Mozer anyway? I was just commenting on the question of whether Americans are especially ignorant or not, not thinking specifically this drift in topic had anything to do with Nina Mozer.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,023
Good questions. Well, Australian geography was never taught in any US school curriculum I was exposed to. And no news about Brisbane ever came through. This was before the great flood of Queensland a few years ago -- that did come through in the news.

I did have to memorize all the state capitols in a Texas high school, but does the average US taxi driver even graduate from high school? More to the point, how come an Australian taxi driver learned about American state capitols when American kids aren't taught anything about Australia?

I don't know what you are getting at anyway. Are you saying Americans are well educated or not? Or are you suggesting I'm particularly ignorant? And what does it have to do with Nina Mozer anyway? I was just commenting on the question of whether Americans are especially ignorant or not, not thinking specifically this drift in topic had anything to do with Nina Mozer.

I'm just arguing the point that Americans are "especially ignorant" in general. It's a popular notion, where people pick and choose certain things to make their point. Also, how many U.S. taxi drivers are U.S. educated? I guess it depends on the location. Many of the taxi drivers I've spoken to in the NY/NJ area were not born or even grew up in the U.S. That's anecdotal evidence, but that hasn't stopped the sweeping generalizations being made.

I guess I am also wondering what kind of knowledge one must have to not be "ignorant". How much exposure do people making these assertions have with people who also did not have the best education in other countries, or does the average person in Europe and Asia receive an adequate education?

I brought up Nina Mozer because she was not U.S. educated, but shamelessly displayed her ignorance. However, I was lead to believe she'd be less ignorant than the average U.S. educated person.

BTW, sorry to be that person, but when referring to a city where a state's seat of government is seated, then it's spelled "capital", not "capitol".
 
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LarrySK8

Well-Known Member
Messages
494
I'm just arguing the point that Americans are "especially ignorant" in general.

Taken out of context, this would seem like a highly racist comment. I find it kind-of-offensive even in the current context.

ETA: You know what? That was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. No need for FSU for me at this time, particularly off season.

Adios all - see you in September!
 

Xela M

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,827
I'm just arguing the point that Americans are "especially ignorant" in general. It's a popular notion, where people pick and choose certain things to make their point. Also, how many U.S. taxi drivers are U.S. educated? I guess it depends on the location. Many of the taxi drivers I've spoken to in the NY/NJ area were not born or even grew up in the U.S. That's anecdotal evidence, but that hasn't stopped the sweeping generalizations being made.

I guess I am also wondering what kind of knowledge one must have to not be "ignorant". How much exposure do people making these assertions have with people who also did not have the best education in other countries, or does the average person in Europe and Asia receive an adequate education?

I brought up Nina Mozer because she was not U.S. educated, but shamelessly displayed her ignorance. However, I was lead to believe she'd be less ignorant than the average U.S. educated person.

BTW, sorry to be that person, but when referring to a city where a state's seat of government is seated, then it's spelled "capital", not "capitol".

If you have ever lived outside of the US, you would be stunned by how little Americans know about anything that happens outside of the US (and I adore the country and think it's still the greatest country in the world bar the free gun trade and Trump-madness) but it honestly stands out much more than anywhere else in the world I have been to
 

Xela M

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,827
Taken out of context, this would seem like a highly racist comment. I find it kind-of-offensive even in the current context.

ETA: You know what? That was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. No need for FSU for me at this time, particularly off season.

Adios all - see you in September!

People on forums always like dramatic exists :p
 

Alez

Member
Messages
88
Russian women historically have a very different reputation to Western women, so sexism was never in fact such a big issue in Russia because Russian women have always been looked at as work horses and the men were mostly useless/drunk. It's not a coincidence Mozer uses the expression "a Russian woman can stop a galloping horse and enter a burning hut". That's the kind of image Russian women had/have, so to now try to read Western sexism into this is completely misunderstanding Russian culture.

Perhaps you just too afraid to stop a galloping Russian man then? That's why you think not so high about Russian men. You sound racist, but I'm sure Russian men are useless drunks because of the wrong shape of skull. Of wait... we heard it before somewhere in the '40s... :rolleyes::p
 

Alez

Member
Messages
88
Well, sexism is older than the bible.

if I'm reading to much into it, what then should I assume it to mean? What are the 'many' philosophical and conceptual meanings of the phrase?

Again. You reading into each too much. You won't have a chance with a Russian man. They are generally don't like them pussies. ;) With a Russian men you don't need to prove anything to anyone, either you are strong or independent or smth. You just need to be a Woman, with a capital W. That's sufficient enough in Russia. Unless an uber rich Russian fatso just want a trophy wife, but that's completely different story, it's international phenomenal. :)
 

Alez

Member
Messages
88
At least Gorbachev can live his life with dignity (being a very well-respected person abroad as you know) without having to fear prison, extradition or assassination because he stole all of Russia's budget and transferred it abroad. He is an iconic figure in Germany.

No, we think Gorby is a joke. Regan played him like a puppy and then threw him away. With a lot of unfulfilled promises. Russkies hate him for a very good reasons.
 

Alez

Member
Messages
88
I wonder if you are aware that women who fought in WW2 and returned home, had trouble marrying and were shunned because they were considered "whores" having spent so much time in predominantly male company, regardless of how much they'd contributed to the war effort.

Cut to modern Russia: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2010/12/the_cheating_cheaters_of_moscow.html

This article is mostly about infidelity but it does touch on the sexism.

In short: Moscow is not Russia. Moscow is Moscow. I travel to Moscow and Russia a lot due to business ties of our company with VTB bank. I can tell a difference. Moscow and St Petersburg is not Russia. It's a global megapolis, huge multi-cultural and multiethnic global urban agglomerations. With all its ups and downs, whistles and blows. ;)
 

Alez

Member
Messages
88
Yes, I work with many highly educated Americans who regularly travel the world and are very well informed, however just speaking to random people in hotels/bars/taxis/shops etc... Some people for example didn't know that Europe had Euros or that we don't have free gun trade or the difference between Paris and London. Countless examples which we found very amusing and sometimes unbelievable

Americans Don't Know Why We Celebrate 4th of July!
http://youtu.be/kyhCOPh48ew

This was shot on the beach in my city, San Diego is not county full of rednecks, but rather big on society of wealthy and educated. Heck, we don't even know what 4th of July is about.
 

Alez

Member
Messages
88
(

Some Americans don't even know the names of cities/states in their own country. :)

Long ago I read a true story in a magazine or newspaper about a woman speaking of her son who had applied for admission to a university. My memory is sketchy on this, but I do remember that her son was born in Santa Clara (California) and went to high school in New Mexico. Someone at the other end assumed that he was a foreign student. :)

Arizona (I live here) has wildfires every year, so no surprise they remembered that.

This is San Diego, my current residence. This city generally considered to be progressive 'capital of biotech' resort full of wealthy and educated people:

Americans Who Don't Know the Capital of the United States:
http://youtu.be/jNzN3q-VgwI

Americans Don’t Know Who Washington D.C. is Named After:
http://youtu.be/gGEx0gRI3AY

The Holocaust is "a bar and grill in southern California" Americans Think:
http://youtu.be/9d4mIaINKqoted people:

Uneducated and overly medicated dumb consumers - this is how they want us here. ;)
 

Japanfan

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,546
Again. You reading into each too much.

I hardly think so. The cliches any given societies has and buys into reflect stereotypes and norms, which in turn reflect the political, ideological and economic organization of those societies.

You won't have a chance with a Russian man.
How devastating.

They are generally don't like them pussies. ;)

:confused:

With a Russian men you don't need to prove anything to anyone, either you are strong or independent or smth. You just need to be a Woman, with a capital W. That's sufficient enough in Russia.

In other words, don't assert your personhood or autonomy as a woman. Stick to the roles and behaviours that satisfy the meaning of Woman, regardless of whether they are limiting, oppressive, or downright unpleasant. And regardless of whether the Women actually decide what roles they want to assume and are allowed to behave/act in ways that suit them.

It was like that for middle-class suburban women in North America after WWII, in the 50s and 60s. To sum up the situation simply without going into it in too much detail, I'll just say that writer a who wrote about women's lives diagnosed them as having "a problem with no name" and valium was the commonly prescribed as the remedy for that affliction.

Then along came the 70s, and the second wave of feminism, and women's rights and choices were slowly extended. Things are by no means perfect here when it comes to women's equality, but it's certainly better than the 50s and 60s in many ways.
 

Xela M

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,827
I hardly think so. The cliches any given societies has and buys into reflect stereotypes and norms, which in turn reflect the political, ideological and economic organization of those societies.

How devastating.



:confused:



In other words, don't assert your personhood or autonomy as a woman. Stick to the roles and behaviours that satisfy the meaning of Woman, regardless of whether they are limiting, oppressive, or downright unpleasant. And regardless of whether the Women actually decide what roles they want to assume and are allowed to behave/act in ways that suit them.

It was like that for middle-class suburban women in North America after WWII, in the 50s and 60s. To sum up the situation simply without going into it in too much detail, I'll just say that writer a who wrote about women's lives diagnosed them as having "a problem with no name" and valium was the commonly prescribed as the remedy for that affliction.

Then along came the 70s, and the second wave of feminism, and women's rights and choices were slowly extended. Things are by no means perfect here when it comes to women's equality, but it's certainly better than the 50s and 60s in many ways.

Omg you have no understanding of Russia at all. For the millionth time, no none is telling women to be US 50s and 60s housewives! That never happened in Russia ever!
 

Fairuza

Well-Known Member
Messages
373
Omg you have no understanding of Russia at all. For the millionth time, no none is telling women to be US 50s and 60s housewives! That never happened in Russia ever!
They won't listen. They don't quite see that women would get criticised if they didn't have a job. :)
 

Aerobicidal

Shut that door.
Messages
11,148
Taken out of context, this would seem like a highly racist comment. I find it kind-of-offensive even in the current context.

ETA: You know what? That was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. No need for FSU for me at this time, particularly off season.

Adios all - see you in September!
RIP
 

Darkverse

Member
Messages
71
Seems to me Russians were miserable the whole time the communists took over in 1917. Stalin was a madman who made Gorbachev look like a saint. Those poor people were brainwashed and treated like crap for over 70 years.
Yes, and then the glorious nineties came and everyone was treated wonderfully and became happy and was not fed any propaganda whatsoever. :rolleyes: Honestly, it often feels like foreigners can't grasp the first thing about Russia and end up resorting to clichés :wall:
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,156
Omg you have no understanding of Russia at all. For the millionth time, no none is telling women to be US 50s and 60s housewives! That never happened in Russia ever!
I have to STRONGLY disagree with you. But don't have much time to show examples. There is a strong emphasis now in Russian society on "classic family and values". Government provide a "child bearing/mother's fund" which used to be close to $10,000 USD before rate fell. Many talk-shows on main TV channels talk about "Woman's primary function in life is to be Mother and Wife". Big Time Show and business stars (females) talk about their careers but when asked what is their biggest accomplishment in life, compelled to say "Wife and Mother".

Small example from popular TV dating shows, like "Davaj Pozhenimsya" (Let's get Married), most women who are looking for husbands openly claim they want the husband to be the Head of the Family, and be the main bread winner. Some openly say "i only want to worry about house, child, cooking. the man must provide and make important decisions".

Very few women say "I want a career and be equal partner". Some do say it, but the reaction is "you are not marriage material - career and family does not go together".

The fact what women back in Soviet Times were allowed to drive tanks, pour concrete and operate high-cranes is true! But they were also expected to stop at the store, buy groceries, pick up kids, cook dinner, clean the house and wash the clothes, ALL that after they came home from work... operating a crane, or flying a test aircraft.... :D.

I was there in the 60's and 70's and saw it with my own eyes...... women came from work and started house tasks, men read newspapers and watched TV and asked "when is dinner ready'..... I returned in the 1990's....... and it was the same thing, most women even if worked were responsible for household tasks..... :D.... Except! it is true that in a Free Market Economy (if you can call it in Russia as such) more women had an opportunity to start their own businesses, or to advance professionally because of huge shortage of qualified professionals. As much as Russian men were reluctant to higher a woman over a man for a high position, if the woman could do the job better, the business owners simply COULD NOT afford not to higher the best.

And yet it is still difficult and challenging. While men accept a woman in a high-level professional capacity, it's the other women in lower ranks that cause problems. They will let the "professional woman" know that they think something is wrong with her, and will critique her for "working in a man's job, not putting emphasis on family and children". Gosh forbid you don't have children or don't want them at all.... There is an accord across the board - something is wrong with a woman who does not want family and children. In some cases the critique of such choice is worst than for being gay.

Our company in Russia, and many non-private larger companies, have different hours for men and women. Women's work day ends at 17:00 o'clock and men's at 18:00 o'clock, for one purpose only - so women can go home and cook dinners. It is clearly stated, not implied. I am fighting this rule in our directors' meeting, and the men support me! But the female employees do NOT..... they like running home and cooking dinners and WOULD NOT THINK OF telling their husbands to share the tasks. I've been at it since 1990's..... it's 2016.... and they do not change..... :D
 

IceAlisa

discriminating and persnickety ballet aficionado
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37,284
Anyone remember the interview with Tatiana Totmianina about how she had to make breakfast for Yagudin a couple times until she got his cottage cheese pancakes just right (syrniki, one of my favorites) and how she has given up asking him to pick up after himself to keep the peace?
 
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